Oh no. This is starting to feel a little too familiar.

You know what else feels familiar? My fist up your ass.

"Bullpen meltdown" maybe, but Pedro gave up 5 runs in 5 innings, and the bullpen gave up 3 runs in >7 innings.

This puts the Mets into a tie with the Cardinals for 2nd place in the wild card. At last, there aren't 3 teams in the NL Central with better records than every other team in the NL!

Great game! Just got back. Coste 4 for 4 after coming in in the 8th. Carlos Ruiz at 3B?!

Carlos Ruiz at 3B?!

My reaction as well.

When asked before the game if he would consider reining in Mike Pelfrey, currently his best starter, in deference to his relatively tender 24-year-old arm, Manuel laughed.

"You're trying to win a championship, period," he said. "And in the course of winning a championship, there will be some damage to some folks in order to do that. That's the sacrifice. That's the cost, that's the price of a championship."

Newsday

I liked Brett Myers's intentional strikeout in the 13th to avoid the double play. On the other hand, Seanez (he was the reliever being pinch-hat for, right?) probably could have done that just as well.

How much weight has Brett Myers put on in the last two years?

NTNgod, you're a scavenger of human misery.

And Jerry Manuel needs to be fired.

I can't wait for the rosters to expand so that SS will never be used in an important situation again. And if Manuel still does it, then he should be fired.

It's all good.

You know what else feels familiar? My fist up your ass.

How often has your fist been up this beat reporter's ass?

What about Wallace Matthews?

What about Wallace Matthews?

Ewwwwwwww.

so the ignore function works; that was easy.

I can't believe this.

so the ignore function works; that was easy.

So's your mom.

I have to admit that sports radio in the NYC area has been hilarious. They dont know how to handle losing. Its amazing to witness real fans with a real sense of entitlement to postseason play. Evan Roberts has actually been somewhat a voice of reason lately. My drives to/from work are worth it this season.

After last year, I'd cut Mets fans some slack. The only thing that can wipe it out is to stampede to a World Championship, and it's clear that this isn't the team that's going to do it.

And while I'm not going to deny that a lot of fans are stupid idiots, New York fans do have a right to some higher sense of "entitlement" than other fans, since their teams are spending so much more money than the other teams on payroll. There's something in life called "getting what you pay for."

Oh no. This is starting to feel a little too familiar.

This is nothing new. It's been happening all year.

This team is the perfect storm for miserable losses. A good offense that scores a ridiculous amount of runs early and cools off in the later innings, a good starting rotation that does especially well the first time through, and a horriwful(yes horriwful) bullpen.

It's a tough loss but that's the team the Mets have. It's just the nature of bullpen. There's no real reason why the Philly bullpen is so awesome and the Met bullpen is so bad this year. Their mediocre relievers are pitching better than our mediocre relievers.

What's really annoying me is all the dingers Pedro is giving up. The last two starts I think I am seeing a return of Pedro's stuff and command. He has a 14/3 k/bb ratio in those starts in 12 IP of work. Those are strong starong ratios but he continues to give up a lot of homers despite getting his fair share of grounders.

I am honestly numb to tough losses. It's not a big deal anymore.

I am honestly numb to tough losses. It's not a big deal anymore.

It's especially helpful when they bring in Show. That way you don't have the expectation of them winning the game.

The Mets have too many "specialists" in their bullpen and not enough guys that can get both lefties and righties out right now. Sanchez and Smith are being used as roogies and SS and Feliciano are being used as loogies. When you have guys like that, you end up in situations where SS is going to have to face righties which means runs for the other teams.

This offseason, Omar has to make his bullpen more flexible. Schoeneweis or Feliciano has to go. I might keep Sanchez around with the hope that he picks up some velocity next year but if he doesn't, release him early.

The Mets lost Ramon Castro to a right quadriceps strain in the fifth. He's headed to New York today for an MRI. Robinson Cancel is en route from Triple-A New Orleans.

"I don't think it's that bad," said Castro, who dealt with recurring right hamstring issues this season. "It's sore. I got this in 2006 and I couldn't squat. This time I can squat."

Wright - who set a Mets record with his fourth 100 RBI season - was uncomfortable, too. He jammed the ring finger getting thrown out on a headfirst slide on an attempted double in the 11th... Wright maintained he'd be okay.

NY Daily News

Also from the NY Daily News blog:

This is sure to create some buzz: It seems likely that Fernando Martinez, Mike Carp, Carlos Muniz and Eddie Kunz all will be snubbed for September call-ups. The Mets don’t want to clutter the clubhouse with too many extra bodies in the heat of a pennant race.

The good news: Look for Jon Niese to make his major-league debut against the Brewers on Sept. 2 in John Maine’s spot. And look for fellow prospect Bobby Parnell to be called up as well for bullpen duty. Other call-ups/activations from the DL: former Rays reliever Al Reyes and Marlon Anderson. Trot Nixon, technically on a major-league rehab assignment with New Orleans following hernia surgery, looks like he’ll be passed over.

Toss-ups: Nelson Figueroa and Brandon Knight. Claudio Vargas’ elbow remains injured, though he’s still floating around with the Zephyrs.

Niese is a LHP, isn't he? Against the lefty-lovin' Brewers? Nothing like throwing the kid into the fire right away.

On the other hand, Seanez (he was the reliever being pinch-hat for, right?) probably could have done that just as well.

My thought was that maybe the Mets would think that Myers might swing, but that Seanez wouldn't. And of course, it's not like you lose Myers for later since he isn't going to pitch and he can't hit anyway. But i agree it's pretty funny to pinch hit and then tell the player 'do not swing under any circumstance.' Rudy must have been thinking, 'damn, how bad a hitter am I?'

OTOH, Rudy is a good 6 inches shorter than Myers, and could have pulled his best Eddie Gaedel.

And while I'm not going to deny that a lot of fans are stupid idiots, New York fans do have a right to some higher sense of "entitlement" than other fans, since their teams are spending so much more money than the other teams on payroll. There's something in life called "getting what you pay for."

Hey Vaux -- could you let us know how their sense of "entitlement" should compare to that of your Tiger fans?

Mets 2008 payroll: $137,391,000* -- 73 wins thus far
Tigers 2008 payroll: $137,290,000* -- 64 wins thus far

*from espn.com

My thought was that maybe the Mets would think that Myers might swing, but that Seanez wouldn't. And of course, it's not like you lose Myers for later since he isn't going to pitch and he can't hit anyway. But i agree it's pretty funny to pinch hit and then tell the player 'do not swing under any circumstance.' Rudy must have been thinking, 'damn, how bad a hitter am I?'

I don't click on Newsday links anymore. Does the account of this game include this? That's awesome.

Manuel deployed the "high-powered rifle in the stands" line?

Does the account of this game include this?

I didn't read Newday either, but here it is from the AP:

After Jayson Werth and Eric Bruntlett were intentionally walked, Myers was called upon to bat for Rudy Seanez. Myers, the second starting pitcher to pinch-hit for Philadelphia, struck out looking at a 3-2 pitch after being instructed not to swing.

Yeah, there were a lot of cool things about this game, the Phillies actually winning somewhere behind Ruiz playing third, Werth scoring from first to tie the game on a ball that didn't even make it to the wall, two P pinch hitters, Rollins starting off 5-5, Bruntlett getting an actual hit, Condrey sparking the 5th inning rally with a double...

Edit- Reading that again, it's tough to tell if he just got the hold on 3-2 or the whole AB, but I'm going to assume that with no one out, they just told him not to swing. I'm going to go back and watch the AB on MLB since I fell asleep around the eleventh.

Edit 2 - Okay, on further review, Myers was definitely not swinging. He does everything possible to make it look like he might swing, and tries to crouch down hilariously on the 3-2 pitch, but he had the hold the entire time. Wheels and McCarthy agreed that he had no intention of swinging.

If anyone has MLB.TV, I highly suggest watching the bottom of the 13th just to see that AB, particularly when Myers backs off like the pitch was in on his hands when it was six inches outside.

Carlos Ruiz at 3B?!
That struck me as odd, considering Coste played 156 games at 3B in the minors, including 93 in 2005. Granted it's been a while since he logged real time down there. Ruiz was originally an IF, I believe, but BRef only goes back to 2002 for him and he played no 3B since 2002 anyway.
It's got Cholly's fingerprints all over it but with Lidge pitching and a short bench, why not? Had to save Bruntlett!? for the high-leverage situation.

"Bullpen meltdown" maybe, but Pedro gave up 5 runs in 5 innings, and the bullpen gave up 3 runs in >7 innings.

C'mon, don't spoil Mets fans fun with facts and reason. Mets' win pct. has been much better since they lost Wagner (.527 when he last pitched, .652 since).

Wheels sums it up best: "I've seen thousands and thousands of games and this was one of the coolest...with all kinds of weird stuff."

Edumundo, according to Baseball Cube, Ruiz hasn't played anything other than C (except for 6 games in OF and 1B) since 2000. The only explanation I can think of is that they wanted to lessen the wear on Ruiz to keep him from catching an entire 5 hour game.

C'mon, don't spoil Mets fans fun with facts and reason. Mets' win pct. has been much better since they lost Wagner (.527 when he last pitched, .652 since).

Yeah, that boost in winning percentage has nothing to do w/ improved starting pitching and an offensive hot streak. It's Wagner.

The Mets are we thought they were!

I think the only thing we Mets fans feel entitled to is whining about our losses. Every win is like a magical gift carried down from the heavens on the backs of unicorns.

Sportscenter was going on and on about how tough a loss this would be for the team, and how depressing it must be, but if they're anything like their fans, they got over it in June. Like Russlan said, this is how the team is built.

They're incapable of losing without completely humiliating themselves in the process. You could see it coming.

"You're trying to win a championship, period," he said. "And in the course of winning a championship, there will be some damage to some folks in order to do that. That's the sacrifice. That's the cost, that's the price of a championship."

Handicapping themselves for 2009 (or longer) while losing 2008 would be a very Mets thing to do.

I guess the press has settled on their storylines and, by God, they're going to stick to them. Pedro gives up 5 runs in 5 IP, the bullpen gives up 3 in 8 1/3 so, of course, THE BULLPEN BLEW IT!!! The Mets win 10 of 11 to move into first place before losing 3 of their last 5, so THE METS ARE COLLPASING AGAIN!!!

This is nothing new. It's been happening all year.

It's especially helpful when they bring in Show. That way you don't have the expectation of them winning the game.

Sportscenter was going on and on about how tough a loss this would be for the team, and how depressing it must be, but if they're anything like their fans, they got over it in June.

They're incapable of losing without completely humiliating themselves in the process. You could see it coming.

Handicapping themselves for 2009 (or longer) while losing 2008 would be a very Mets thing to do.

These are some sad sad commentaries, much worse than the anger or frustration you would expect (or find on Metsblog). That they team has lowered expectations to this degree is far more troublesome for Mets fans than an occasional loss. Good grief!

I also am somewhat surprised by the anger and frustration by Mets fans. Everything that could go wrong with the Mets has gone wrong this year. They fired their manager and pitching coach earlier in the year, and are facing injuries to key personnel. The Phillies should be way up on them, but here they are virtually tied. The team may salvage what should be a lost season. If I were a Mets fan, I would have no expectations, and just enjoy the ride for as long as it goes.

Carlos Ruiz at 3B?!

That struck me as odd, considering Coste played 156 games at 3B in the minors,

Yes, it seemed very strange, especially since Ruiz is considered the better backstop. The Phils' announcers said that Ruiz regularly takes ground balls in the infield; I'm guessing that Coste doesn't (why, I have no idea), and thus the unorthodox move. I'm sure it will be heralded as a great move since it worked, but with two lefty batters (Beltran vs. a righty, then Delgado) against a flamethrower in Lidge, a screamer to third was a very real possibility. Coste set up inside for every single pitch against Beltran and Delgado - Lidge missed his spot twice against Beltran (high and outside fastball, then the outside slider that Beltran hit to shortstop). As a hitter, I'd have to think you'd have an advantage knowing that the pitcher won't be throwing heat on the outside corner, but it worked out this time.

Thankfully the rosters expand shortly, so hopefully we won't need to see that again.

I can't wait for the rosters to expand so that SS will never be used in an important situation again. And if Manuel still does it, then he should be fired.

In fairness, Manuel really avoided doing so. Schoeneweis was his last pitcher. And I have no issue with using him against important lefties- indeed, I hope he continues to do so.

I wrote about this earlier this week- the Mets bullpen, though, as pointed out here, pretty good last night, has been historically awful. But last season, down the stretch, the Mets had Feliciano, Heilman and Wagner pitching well, without major platoon splits. Willie simply couldn't play the matchup game at all. This year? There's no one reliable at the level of those three right now.

I also am somewhat surprised by the anger and frustration by Mets fans. Everything that could go wrong with the Mets has gone wrong this year. They fired their manager and pitching coach earlier in the year, and are facing injuries to key personnel. The Phillies should be way up on them, but here they are virtually tied. The team may salvage what should be a lost season. If I were a Mets fan, I would have no expectations, and just enjoy the ride for as long as it goes.

I totally agree with this- but I'd also point out- isn't this how Mets fans should be used to success? It is when winning is most improbable that it happens (see 1969, 1973, Game 6), and when winning is expected that the Mets lose (see 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2006, September 2007). This is what makes it fun.

I'd love to see the Mets win the World Series. But I can hardly complain that tonight, the Mets play a game for first place, and they have Johan Santana on the mound, David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran in the lineup. Seriously. Take that complaint to a Pirates fan.

Thankfully the rosters expand shortly, so hopefully we won't need to see that again.

This is a reason I don't like expanded rosters- I love seeing that type of thing.

But with the limited pitchers the Mets employ in the bullpen, making matchups vital, expanded rosters are a godsend.

I also am somewhat surprised by the anger and frustration by Mets fans. Everything that could go wrong with the Mets has gone wrong this year. They fired their manager and pitching coach earlier in the year, and are facing injuries to key personnel. The Phillies should be way up on them, but here they are virtually tied. The team may salvage what should be a lost season. If I were a Mets fan, I would have no expectations, and just enjoy the ride for as long as it goes.

I don't really agree. The improvement of Pelfrey has been a huge, and unexpected, bonus. And how many people expected Tatis to be an able fill in for Alou / Church, producing a >120 OPS+? Also, there is the resurgence of Delgado.

The injuries to Pedro, Alou, Duque, were not unexpected, and shouldn't really be caterorised as "things going wrong" / bad luck.

That's not to say that guys like Church, Maine, Wagner getting injured were not "things going wrong". But, to balance that, none of Reyes, Wright, Santana, Beltran have missed time due to injuries.

I don't really agree. The improvement of Pelfrey has been a huge, and unexpected, bonus. And how many people expected Tatis to be an able fill in for Alou / Church, producing a >120 OPS+? Also, there is the resurgence of Delgado.

Of course- if unexpected things hadn't happened to balance out the huge amount of problems with expected contributors, the Mets would be in fourth place.

The injuries to Pedro, Alou, Duque, were not unexpected, and shouldn't really be caterorised as "things going wrong" / bad luck.

Eh? Those are included in "things going wrong", anyway you slice it. And counting on old/oft-injured players means that you're rolling the dice; that your odds aren't so good. No matter what the odds were, it's still "bad luck" if people you count on don't help you.

Of course- if unexpected things hadn't happened to balance out the huge amount of problems with expected contributors, the Mets would be in fourth place.

Well, that's kinda my point. Rodder says that everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, and that Mets fan should have no expectations.

If everything that could go wrong had went wrong, the Mets would be in 4th place.

Eh? Those are included in "things going wrong", anyway you slice it. And counting on old/oft-injured players means that you're rolling the dice; that your odds aren't so good. No matter what the odds were, it's still "bad luck" if people you count on don't help you.

Well sure. But if things that are expected to "go wrong", do "go wrong", they aren't really legitimate reasons for things turning out badly.

Lots of things have "gone wrong" for other teams too, if you include things that were expected "to go wrong".

Rodder says that everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, and that Mets fan should have no expectations.

I have a little bit of this feeling still with me. In May or so I hit rock bottom in terms of emotional investment in the team. I stopped caring about losses very much. Mets wins these days seem like serendipitous events, whereas losses are not dwelled upon because they are expected. It's sort of a healthy place to be - I wish I could have had this mood last September.

I think we're arguing about semantics here; it isn't a really healthy place to be.

But I classify every event that befalls a team as "goes right" or "goes wrong", regardless of level of expectation. If A-Rod hits into a double play, that's "goes wrong". If it's in the ninth inning of a close game, it's "expected", but still the event itself "went wrong" for the Yankees.

My thought was that maybe the Mets would think that Myers might swing, but that Seanez wouldn't. And of course, it's not like you lose Myers for later since he isn't going to pitch and he can't hit anyway. But i agree it's pretty funny to pinch hit and then tell the player 'do not swing under any circumstance.' Rudy must have been thinking, 'damn, how bad a hitter am I?'

Even if you wanted the pitcher to whiff, Seanez has 6 MLB PAs while Myers has 300+. I would bet that Seanez isn't very comfortable getting into the box against MLB pitching.

Maybe I shouldn't have used such vague terms. I meant to say, the Mets have had a really rough season, and I think their fans should be happy they about a great shot at making the playoffs. Certainly rfloh's point that 4 of the 5 superstars on the team have enjoyed good health this year is quite valid. Still, I see this team more of a "plucky" group that has overcome a number of obstacles to stay in it to the end, than the one described so negatively in the lead paragraph of this article.

While an awful hitter in his career against righties (.099/.134/.128 in 285 PA), Myers is actually not a complete loss against lefties (.167/.250/.167 in 89 PA), so he was at least a more credible threat to swing against Schoeneweis than Seanez (only 1 MLB PA since 1999!). I'm also pretty sure Seanez was done after that inning no matter what - he's just back from an injury, and IIRC Kyle Kendrick was already getting loose as soon as Seanez threw his first few pitches.

The Mets are we thought they were!

Uh-oh. There's a bug in the auto-taunt program.

At the beginning of the season the Mets looked superior to the Phillies. The teams were basically tied last year. One team replaced the corpse of Tom Glavine with Johan Santana, and the other team replaced Aaron Rowand with Pedro Feliz. Which one do you think had an advantage going into this year?

There was always the concern that the Mets were relying on too many old guys. They have been unlucky in that every single old guy they have has gone down except Delgado. This was bad luck. Personally I think the inexplicable reemergence of Fernando Tatis as an excellent player was enough good luck to cancel that out. And is the rotation any worse than it would have been with El Duque in it?

Moises Alou turned out to be useless because he was hurt. Geoff Jenkins turned out to be useless whether or not he was hurt. The Phillies rotation had Adam Eaton and Brett Myers both giving up 5 runs per start for the first 60% of the season. From the perspective of "team unluckiness" there shouldn't be much difference between a player who had a significant chance of getting injured and then got injured, and a player who had a significant chance of being bad despite being healthy and then was bad despite being healthy. ......Although the injury situation definitely seems more frustrating.

It may be that the Mets aren't in first place by 5 games right now because they waited until the season was devolving into chaos to finally perform the inevitable firing of Willie Randolph. As a Phillies fan I was intensely worried when that happened, and sure enough, the Mets went on a big winning streak shortly thereafter.

[EDIT: made last paragraph more equivocal]

Hey Vaux -- could you let us know how their sense of "entitlement" should compare to that of your Tiger fans?

Mets 2008 payroll: $137,391,000* -- 73 wins thus far
Tigers 2008 payroll: $137,290,000* -- 64 wins thus far

*from espn.com

Way to completely misread his post.
Do you troll the Tigers and their fans in every thread? Everyone needs a gimmick I guess.

People are surprised Mets fans are complaining? It's what we do!

Way to completely misread his post.
Do you troll the Tigers and their fans in every thread? Everyone needs a gimmick I guess.

Not that this post wasn't random here, but come on, you gotta take your medicine. Back in the heady Tigers Days of December, you said I have noticed a lot more Tigers sniping since the Miguel trade... not surprising, but it is kinda fun.

Complaining about it now just because the team has turned out to be a disaster isn't really fair.

If I've said it once I've said it a million times, Scott Schoeneweis should never be allowed to face right handed batters.

If I've said it once I've said it a million times, Scott Schoeneweis should never be allowed to face right handed batters.

But I'm pretty sure the alternative was Luis Castillo on the mound.

Complaining about it now just because the team has turned out to be a disaster isn't really fair

Fair? You wanna talk about FAIR?!?!?!??!!

Seriously, sure, this season has been a disaster and everyone is entitled to whale on the Tigers and their fans. However, that was a driveby post that took Vaux out of context just to troll Detroit, from a guy who ceaselessly trolls Detroit im seemingly every tangentially Tigers related thread. That ain't gonna stand.

Very bizarre looking line for Pedro....25 batters, 15 put the ball in play, 7 for hits. Guy strikes out 1/3 of the hitters he faces, you expect a little better result.

Pedro's starting to get his strikeouts and his control is getting better but he continues to be plagued by the long ball. He's giving up about one homer for every 5 flyballs when the supposed average is 1 for every 9. It's hard to pitch well with an average of about 2 hr/9.

What's Pedro's VORP, Russlan? :)

I told you already that I've conceded. Anytime you give me your info, I'll pay.

Ugh. The Unit gives up 3 runs in the 7th to make it 4-3
Then Qualls promptly chokes like a dog in the 8th
The Dbacks have a worse bullpen than the Mets
Hard to believe it, I know, but it's true
The Dbacks bullpen is absolutely horrible

Even if you wanted the pitcher to whiff, Seanez has 6 MLB PAs while Myers has 300+. I would bet that Seanez isn't very comfortable getting into the box against MLB pitching.

But BLB, there was a 'no swing' directive, meaning that all Rudy would have had to do was stand still. It wasn't just that they hoped Myers would just strike out, he wasn't allowed to swing. Hopefully Rudy would be at least comfortable enough to stand there!

But BLB, there was a 'no swing' directive, meaning that all Rudy would have had to do was stand still. It wasn't just that they hoped Myers would just strike out, he wasn't allowed to swing. Hopefully Rudy would be at least comfortable enough to stand there!

Perhaps they were concerned that Seanez wouldn't know how to get out of the way of a wayward inside fastball and would get himself hurt, whereas Myers knows a little better how to take evasive action.

Perhaps they were concerned that Seanez wouldn't know how to get out of the way of a wayward inside fastball and would get himself hurt, whereas Myers knows a little better how to take evasive action.

No, the bases were loaded! You want him to get hit. You know, like his namesake did with these guys.

The injuries to Pedro, Alou, Duque, were not unexpected, and shouldn't really be caterorised as "things going wrong" / bad luck.


Eh? Those are included in "things going wrong", anyway you slice it. And counting on old/oft-injured players means that you're rolling the dice; that your odds aren't so good. No matter what the odds were, it's still "bad luck" if people you count on don't help you.

It really isn't bad luck, and it's not semantics to say so: When your old, often-injured guys don't come through, it's bad planning.

Yeah, that boost in winning percentage has nothing to do w/ improved starting pitching and an offensive hot streak. It's Wagner.

Nice job of missing the point and supporting it at the same time.

Seeing multiple teams seasons crashing based on the perception of bullpen failures I wonder if GMs won't FINALLY move into a different direction around staff construction.

Doing the same thing over and over.....well y'all know that saying.

I'm thinking CC ain't gonna make millions. The guy is gonna make KAJILLIONS.

As long as it's with a team with a non-protected draft pick!

It really isn't bad luck, and it's not semantics to say so: When your old, often-injured guys don't come through, it's bad planning.

I disagree with this statement. It's bad planning to expect 200 IP from Duque, or 150 games from Alou. It's not bad planning to expect 100 IP from Duque or 85 games from Alou.

I disagree with this statement. It's bad planning to expect 200 IP from Duque, or 150 games from Alou. It's not bad planning to expect 100 IP from Duque or 85 games from Alou.

We'll have to disagree, then. His history, his demonstrated ability to come back from injuries, his ability to adjust to a declining arensal, and especially his last starts in 2007, made pencilling Pedro in for 100 average+ IP a decent idea. Counting on Duque for the same, given his injury history and the simple fact that in baseball years he's older than dirt, was a bad idea. Having Duque as your 7th starter, and hoping to get a good month out of him at some point if Pelfrey+ blew up, that's a good idea, because Duque'll be one of the better 7th starters in baseball. Counting on Alou for anything, especially some number of games that's the average of his games played in the last two years, when he's older than dirt--well, to put it mildly, that's wildly optimistic. Particularly so when counting on that from Alou would mean, as I said when I was sparring with Sam M. in a preseason thread, that the Mets would be sending their 5th OFer out there for 50 games. That was entirely predictable, and that was bad planning on the part of the Mets.

Another reason counting on Duque for anything was bad planning was that there was no good reason to expect both Maine and Ollie to repeat their 2007 seasons. To hope to get about 80% of their 2007s was reasonable, but then to expect Pelfrey, Pedro, and Duque to combine for two good seasons of starting pitching is another example of unwarranted optimism. For the above reasons I said at the beginning of the season the Mets looked a lot like an 87-win team. I've made some bad predictions, but that wasn't one of them.