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Monday, August 11, 2008

Newsday: Mets’ bullpen falters again

The Mets’ bullpen blew another one.

Pedro Martinez pitched six steady innings and left with a four-run lead, but the team’s shaky relief corps couldn’t hold off the NL Central’s cellar-dwelling Pirates, yielding six runs in the final three innings on the way to sending the Mets to an ugly 7-5 loss at Shea Stadium Monday in a makeup of an April 28 rainout.

Joe Smith, Pedro Feliciano, Aaron Heilman and Scott Schoeneweis were all ineffective, so that’s four straight starts for Martinez without a win.

On the bright side, the Mets get the Nats next.

NTNgod Posted: August 11, 2008 at 08:53 PM | 50 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: August 11, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2898949)

It's kind of fun to see how spectacularly the Mets can blow games. They have a knack for topping themselves by the week.

2. Chris Dial Posted: August 11, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2898950)

1. There was no reason to take an effective pitcher out of the game.
2. Your team leads 5-4 going into the top of the 9th (you are the home team). You pinch hit for your reliever in the bottom of the 8th, so you must now select a reliever to pitch the 9th. In your pen, you have a RHP who has struggled all season, allowing an alarming rate of home runs, and you have a severe LOOGY who, while death on LHBs, is BP to RHBs. your opponent has the top of their lineup up - a LHB All-star leading the team in HRs, a weak-weak-hitting SS, and a LHB first baseman. None of which is likely to be pinch hit for. In the hole is the switchhitting catcher.

Who do you bring in the game?

A good manager puts players in a position to succeed. Manuel is trying, but isn't consistent. The players are also not performing, but does Minaya get help at the deadline? The Phils and Fish got help. The Mets are going to miss the playoffs and it will be for two reasons: a terrible hitting OF when the greatest player in the history of the game could have been had all season, and the inaction to fix the bullpen, and three poor use of the personnel. Three 2B and three C on the bench? This is a pathetically run team. At least Daniel Murphy has been a bright spot.

3. Crashburn Alley Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2898954)

As a Phillies fan, it's fun to watch bullpens blow games when it's not your bullpen. We had to endure that last season.

4. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:03 PM (#2898956)

Although the Bonds thing is obviously complicated, it's hard to disagree with anything Chris wrote up there.

5. Harris Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:09 PM (#2898960)

As a Phillies fan, it's fun to watch bullpens blow games when it's not your bullpen. We had to endure that last season.

Yeah - but the Phillies still won the division last season.

I think it was far worse the previous two years when the Phils were relying on the likes of the following to close games:
Arthur Rhodes, Tom Gordon, Ryan Franklin, Antonio Alfonseca, Roberto Hernandez.

Last year the Phillies had a radunculous number of different guys record a save:
Myers - 21
Alfonseca - 8
Gordon - 6
Condrey - 2
Durbin - 1 (a 3 inning variety)
Madson - 1
Mesa - 1
Rosario - 1
Ennis - 1

The bullpen has been decent since stupid Ed Wade was run out of town.

6. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2898963)

It's kind of fun to see how spectacularly the Mets can blow games. They have a knack for topping themselves by the week.

Indeed. Allowing two three-run rallys to be keyed by Luis Rivas and Dougie Eyechart...never saw that one coming. I'm sure they'll top it though.

7. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:21 PM (#2898976)

Indeed. Allowing two three-run rallys to be keyed by Luis Rivas and Dougie Eyechart...never saw that one coming. I'm sure they'll top it though.

Any chance of them facing Tony Pena Jr. and the Royals?

8. Srul Itza Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:21 PM (#2898977)

When the Mets do not make the playoffs again, Omar is going to be the next sacrificial lamb. They will also probably not renew the "interim" manager.

Who is the betting on the next Mets GM? Is Cashman's contract up?

9. bbc is prejudice bout men Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:29 PM (#2898988)

yall mets can have ed wade.

consider it a gift. we'll even pay his next years salary for you. and take tal smith with him

10. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:31 PM (#2898993)

With his bullpen imploding, is Minaya due for the Morrie Kessler Breakfast Special?

I hope he likes Danish.

11. salvomania Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2898997)

THE REDS ARE IN LAST PLACE, NOT THE PIRATES.

GET YOUR ####### DISPARAGING REMARKS CORRECT, ########!!!

12. flournoy Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:38 PM (#2899004)

Last year the Phillies had a radunculous number of different guys record a save:

Nine guys is a radunculous number? The Braves have had seven guys already this season, which is impressive since they've only recorded a total of 17 saves.

13. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2899010)

Doug Melvin's solution to Yost's bullpen issues was to hire Ted Simmons as a bench coach, re-make the bullpen, and when that wasn't working as planned get a real horse as ace.

The Brewers starters lead the NL in innings pitched. (Which is Simmons influence)

Bullpens with limited opportunities have fewer chances to scr#w things up.

14. Raskolnikov Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:48 PM (#2899014)

Manuel deserves the blame. When you keep sending Schoenweis out there, what else are you trying to do except torture the fanbase. I would release SS immediately.

15. haven Posted: August 11, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2899024)

Neise for Grabow. Can we get that done now?

16. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM (#2899027)

The Met bullpen has a 6.79 ERA since the ASB. It's hard to win games like that.

The Mets have the best run differential in baseball in the first three innings. That is in part because they have two starters, Maine and Pelfrey, who are especially good the first time through. It is also because the bullpen has been so horrible.

17. Raskolnikov Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:12 PM (#2899034)

I would strongly consider moving Maine to the closer role while Wagner is out.

18. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:23 PM (#2899040)

Then who starts in Maine's spot? Stokes isn't a very good pitcher. I guess you could call up Niese but Wagner is going to be back in about a week.

What they need to do is send down Smith, Kunz, and Muniz and call up two guys from AAA and let Burgos pitch in the majors. Can't be worse than what is happening right now.

19. Howie Menckel Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2899045)

"the greatest player in the history of the game"

Still? Or in better days?

Murphy is currently laughing at Bonds' meager career OBP and OPS as well.

:)

20. Raskolnikov Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2899049)

Agree with Smith and Muniz, but why Kunz? I would release SS, demote Smith and Muniz and put Heilman in low leverage. I'd actually give Kunz more of a role. Stokes is serviceable, and the closer is a more gaping hole right now.

21. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:35 PM (#2899050)

"Neise for Grabow. Can we get that done now?"

Now Pirates fans are clowning the Mets FO. When this happens, your (my) team needs a new GM.

22. NTNgod Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2899055)

I would release SS

He's still signed for next year, so he'll probably have to completely be useless to get the heave-ho.

23. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2899057)

The Mets are going to miss the playoffs and it will be for two reasons: a terrible hitting OF when the greatest player in the history of the game could have been had all season, and the inaction to fix the bullpen, and three poor use of the personnel.

I hope you've got someone checking the math on your defensive metrics. :)

24. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:48 PM (#2899060)

I don't mind having Schoeneweis on this team because he is completely consistent. You can count on him to get lefties out. The problem is that when Smith or Heilman don't do their jobs, SS is asked to do more than he is capable of. He is a complimentary piece, not a main cog. SS should pitch 35-45 innings a season like Mike Myers, not 60-70.

25. Raskolnikov Posted: August 11, 2008 at 10:55 PM (#2899065)

How many times does SS have to torpedo a game before we stop defending him? He is the worst anti-clutch reliever I have ever seen. If the situation is critical I can guarantee that Schoenweis will blow it. Not 80%, not 90%, he's 100% anti-clutch.

I think Scott Schoenweis translated in French is Alain Bernard.

26. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: August 11, 2008 at 11:06 PM (#2899068)

How many times does SS have to torpedo a game before we stop defending him?

Jesus answered him, "I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy times seven."

Matthew 18:22

27. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 11, 2008 at 11:09 PM (#2899074)

Schoeneweis didn't "blow it" today. His job is to get lefties out and he got a weak groundball to second from the one lefty he faced. He did what he supposed to do. It's not his fault Heilman sucked today and forced him into the game with the bases loaded, one out, and 2 righties up after the lefty.

SS is a LOOGY and lefties are hitting .159/.222/.280 against him. That's called doing your job.

28. Raskolnikov Posted: August 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2899088)

It was a multi-player effort today. But I don't see the argument that it's not his job. If a pitcher can't get more than one hitter out, then he's as much a part of the problem. Of course, part of the blame goes to Manuel for not leaving Heilman in there, since there may be a 5% chance of getting out of that inning vs. the 0% chance with SS.

Addendum to your addendum:
Well, he sucks when the situation is high leverage. And as I said from several threads back, if you can't trust the manager not to use SS when the situation is important, then you have to get rid of the temptation. This isn't a new problem, this has been recurring since last year.

29. Howie Menckel Posted: August 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM (#2899093)

fwiw, Schoenweis also had a crosseyed ump behind the plate today. let Pearce go to 2-1 and 3-1, then called a worse pitch a strike for 3-2.
and in the spot, he did get the first guy.

Ripping Schoenweis is fair game, this is just not a very good example.

30. Roadblock Jones Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:05 AM (#2899135)

When the Mets do not make the playoffs again, Omar is going to be the next sacrificial lamb. They will also probably not renew the "interim" manager.

Who is the betting on the next Mets GM? Is Cashman's contract up?

Omar should be fired, in my opinion. Bringing back basically the entire bullpen and bench from last year's team has obviously been a big mistake; he added an everyday catcher not good enough to be an everyday catcher; got burned on nearly every other gamble he took; and sat on his hands during one of the most spectacular trading seasons in years while his team so obviously needed help. I'd fire him no matter how it turns out, and wouldn't be surprised to discover the Mets have already marked him for termination, perhaps explaining his inactivity.

Manuel is by far a better communicator than Willie but his game strategy is every bit as bad. Plenty of postseason success could win him a job still but I feel they'll start fresh and whack him too.

For next GM word is Jeff Wilpon likes Tony Bernazard who's been a kind of shadow government for the current administration. I think Cashman would be a long shot given the perception that they'd tried the "Yankee Way" with Willie before and failed. They'll halfassedly copy someone else instead.

31. Chris Dial Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#2899140)

Manuel is by far a better communicator than Willie but his game strategy is every bit as bad.

Not every bit as bad. He's got a quicker hook with those guys. He has some bad ideas about their capabilities, and Warthen needs to get in his ear about who they are. If they employ a stathead, he's a bad one.

32. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:25 AM (#2899162)

sat on his hands during one of the most spectacular trading seasons in years while his team so obviously needed help.

That was one of the few slow career suicide attempts by a GM I've seen. At least that's the only reason I can come up to explain the deadline inaction.

33. Srul Itza Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:34 AM (#2899176)

If a pitcher can't get more than one hitter out, then he's as much a part of the problem.

LOOGYs are here to stay. SS is about as good a LOOGY as you will find.

if you can't trust the manager not to use SS when the situation is important, then you have to get rid of the temptation.

So, if the manager is incompetent, get rid of a useful player?

Gee, why not GET RID OF THE INCOMPETENT MANAGER?!?

OR: Tell him that he will be fined $10,000 for every pitch that SS makes to a righty?

34. Steve Threadair Posted: August 12, 2008 at 01:25 AM (#2899265)

I think Scott Schoenweis translated in French is Alain Bernard.

Bernard swam his best ever 100 meters in 46.73 seconds. Lezak's performance was just unreal. They should leave Barry and Rajah alone and investigate this guy!

35. JPWF13

Posted: August 12, 2008 at 01:28 AM (#2899268)

Omar should be fired, in my opinion. Bringing back basically the entire bullpen and bench from last year's team has obviously been a big mistake; he added an everyday catcher not good enough to be an everyday catcher; got burned on nearly every other gamble he took; and sat on his hands during one of the most spectacular trading seasons in years while his team so obviously needed help. I'd fire him no matter how it turns out

If not for the Johan trade (which by all appearances he lucked into- as Minny overplayed their hand with both Boston and the Yankees)- he would have been gone by now I think. The ONLY think he does well is spending pretty well for elite FAs or the equivalent (Beltran/Johan etc)- that alone puts him ahead of someone like Ned Colitis.

36. Srul Itza Posted: August 12, 2008 at 01:46 AM (#2899284)

The ONLY think he does well is spending pretty well for elite FAs or the equivalent (Beltran/Johan etc)- that alone puts him ahead of someone like Ned Colitis.

Is that the difference between Omar and Ned -- or is that the difference between the Wilpons and McCourt

EDIT: Had wrong LA Owner in there

37. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 12, 2008 at 02:30 AM (#2899303)

If they employ a stathead, he's a bad one.

He's actually a very good one, but in-game roster management isn't his job.

-- MWE

38. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 12, 2008 at 04:35 AM (#2899346)

Bobby Parnell made his AAA debut and pitched quite well. Might as well give him a chance.

39. We don't have dahlians at the Palace of Wisdom Posted: August 12, 2008 at 05:41 AM (#2899357)

So, if the manager is incompetent, get rid of a useful player?

This is the same logic that led to Mets fans rejoicing when Guillermo Mota was shipped out of town as opposed to the manager that continually put Guillermo ####### Mota into close games down the stretch of a pennant race.

40. cardsfanboy

Posted: August 12, 2008 at 06:00 AM (#2899361)

Nine guys is a radunculous number? The Braves have had seven guys already this season, which is impressive since they've only recorded a total of 17 saves.

heck be like the Cardinals and have 7 different pitchers record blown saves.

41. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: August 12, 2008 at 06:07 AM (#2899366)

So, if the manager is incompetent, get rid of a useful player?

Exactly! ONE LOUDER.

42. NTNgod Posted: August 12, 2008 at 07:36 AM (#2899374)

NY Daily News: Jerry Manuel is at odds with Mets catcher Ramon Castro's ills

Ramon Castro would have been the clear choice to start at catcher Monday with Pedro Martinez pitching for the Mets and the lefthanded Zach Duke throwing for Pittsburgh. He couldn't because he is still feeling pain in his right ankle.

Jerry Manuel responded to this news by subtly calling Castro out for not playing through it. He ruled out a stint on the disabled list, saying the medical staff "felt there was enough strength and flexibility, it's just a matter of tolerating the pain."

Of the three catchers on the roster, Castro has the most pop. But whenever an opportunity to play more has come, injuries have sidetracked him.

Newsday:

"[Maine closing] hasn't been talked about seriously," Maine said, then added enough thought to indicate it has been talked about semi-seriously. "For the most part, I go out and have good first innings, and that's all they're looking for is one inning. Hopefully, it would be only 15 pitches, three, four times a week. It won't be as bad for my shoulder as going out there and throwing 110, 120. Whatever they ask me to do, I'll do it."

MLB.com:

[Manuel] went so far as to say Maine, who is assigned to the disabled list but scheduled to start Wednesday night, probably will be the closer after he has recovered from the start and until Wagner returns.

"I have to use all of my options that I have -- that's what I got to do," Manuel said.

He had no quarrel with the phrase "Russian Roulette Relief," even forcing a smirk when it was spoken in his presence. "That's what it's been," he said.

43. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 12, 2008 at 08:23 AM (#2899377)

That doesn't make any sense to me. Maine is going to start on Wednesday the 13th and Wagner's due back on the 17th or so. Unless Wagner's out for long than that, how many games could he possibily pitch in relief?

I don't like that Manuel is calling out players in the media.

44. NTNgod Posted: August 12, 2008 at 09:20 AM (#2899385)

A possible clue? Maine said before going on the DL his shoulder had been bothering him for some time, so Wagner's health may only be part of the equation.

It won't be as bad for my shoulder as going out there and throwing 110, 120

45. Chris Dial Posted: August 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#2899407)

He's actually a very good one, but in-game roster management isn't his job.

Communicating effectively the proper usage of these pitchers is. And that message isn't getting through. Last night was a perfect set up to properly use SS and Manuel booted it. It was pathetic.

46. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: August 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM (#2899410)

I am empathetic to the frustration of Mets fans. Viewed individually the collection of relievers on the Mets "seem" to be sufficiently talented to generate more positive outcomes than bad. Wagner, Sanchez, Smith, SS and Feliciano all strike me as more than competent pitchers though with limitations given certain situations.

Contrast that with Milwaukee's collection which begins and ends with Torres, Shouse and Villaneuva.

Yet the Crew is 23-10 in one-run games and for the life of me I am baffled by that number. It is inexplicable.........................

47. bunyon Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM (#2899434)

Yet the Crew is 23-10 in one-run games and for the life of me I am baffled by that number. It is inexplicable.........................

It's just one of those magical things Yost does.

48. RMc's grumbling has gone far enough Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:16 PM (#2899436)

To the tune of "Edelweiss":

Scho-en-weiss
Scho-en-weiss,
Ev'ry game you are suck-ing...

49. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM (#2899437)

Yet the Crew is 23-10 in one-run games and for the life of me I am baffled by that number. It is inexplicable.........................

Isn't baseball great?

50. JPWF13

Posted: August 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM (#2899457)

Is that the difference between Omar and Ned -- or is that the difference between the Wilpons and McCourt

I think it's the difference between Ned and Omar- past Met GMs, like Phillips have signed guys with all the "luck" that Ned has....

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