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Sunday, December 20, 2009
Neyer: A’s adding Crisp?
Crisp: The ballad of reading defensive goals?
Coco Crisp is nearing an agreement with the Athletics on a one-year deal in the $5MM range, MLBTR has learned. The deal will include an option for 2011. Crisp had been talking to the Padres as well, and his agent Steve Comte expected a decision before Christmas.
...OK, let’s everyone take a deep breath and remember that teams don’t acquire players; they acquire contracts, and $5 million for one year of Crisp’s services—if he’s healthy, of course—is not an unreasonable contract.
With that out of the way ... I don’t get it. Unless someone is traded, this makes no sense at all for the A’s. Sweeney has to play, because he’s an outstanding outfielder and a decent enough hitter who’s young enough to get better. Rajai Davis isn’t as young, and it’s far from obvious that he’ll ever hit as well again as he did in 2009. But he does seem to be an excellent defensive center fielder. And Scott Hairston is decent enough to play, to say nothing of giant prospect Michael Taylor, just acquired from the Blue Jays.
So, yeah, the A’s are collecting outfielders. At 30, Crisp is the oldest of them. I suppose he could open the season in center field, but only if Billy Beane is able to swap Davis or Hairston for someone who can hit home runs. Otherwise, what’s the point?
Repoz
Posted: December 20, 2009 at 10:17 AM | 34 comment(s)
Related News: General, Business, Oakland
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They need a 3rd baseman, really. So, who? I doubt Beltre is an option (and I'm not even sure he's a guy who can hit anymore.). I'm guessing there's a trade in the works with the outfield excess, but none of those outfielders are attractive enough to bring back anything too good. So I'm not sure what Beane is up to here. Not a freakin clue.
I mean: "but none of those outfielders are attractive enough to bring back anything too good" doesn't really inspire a load of "we're all set here" confidence to me. I don't follow the A's, but maybe one of the kids they don't want starting?
* Davis gets dealt (sell high!), Cubs do make sense here.
* Taylor starts the year in the minors
He seems like a well spoken and classy guy. (So does Sweeney.)
Going into last season, I thought he had a lot of value to the A's as a pinch runner in close-and-late situations when either Cust or Giambi would inevitably walk. With both those guys gone (Cust?) there is less of a need for this.
The team could use more not less black players.
It's like Beane woke up, realized he'd gotten Michael Taylor and started panicking -- "I've got someone who might actually hit. Oh God, what do I do now? I can't handle this pressure. Quick, I need to waste some money, see if Nomar's available."
Even if they've got a trade of Davis (or Sweeney) in the works, why spend $5 M on Crisp of all things. Surely they can dig up a fly catcher for less than that.
But, as all hitters for the last 5+ years have done, he immediately started sucking on arrival in Oakland.
He probably makes more sense for the A's than Crisp but I don't think I'd view him as an impedement to signing Coco.
Yes, it's depressing to be a fan of a team with a $130 M payroll and still find yourself hoping that you end up with Davis or Morgan or Crisp or Byrd as your starting CF. What's Kenny Lofton up to?
Hendry and Beane actually trade fairly often (Hinske, Bellhorn, Kendall, Wuertz, Harden, Fox just off the top of my head) and I don't think the Cubs have come out any worse off (i.e. some good, some bad, all pretty small deals). Hendry is generally fine on trades -- deciding to trade Bradley was dumb, saving $6 M under the circumstances was actually a decent outcome.
I'm not sure anybody sees Hairston as a "good" hitter but rather as cheap and league average for a corner OF. He'd been a highly touted prospect who struggled in his MLB debut. But in SD he finally got a season's worth of PA and put up a 131 OPS+. Given his age, that still wasn't anything to be excited about but many folks figured he'd be good for another 2-3 cheap years of 115 OPS+ with decent defense (given his speed). Given what Oakland was trotting out there at the time (team OPS+ was something like 85 in the first half), that looked like a godsend.
Roughly speaking, Hairston and Nelson Cruz are the same guy only Hairston's been stuck in Petco and Oakland while Cruz got to "break out" in Texas.
Getting back to the Cubs, I'd rather see them dig up a AAAA Hairston/Cruz type to play RF with Fuku back in CF (with Johnson or similar and either Fuld or Hofpauir on the bench) than sign Byrd/Crisp/Pods or trade anything of any value for Morgan/Davis/Sweeney.
Pretty strongly disagree with this. Sweeney has given absolutely no reason - scouting or stats based - to make us think he's ever going to hit for any power. I dont just mean "HR's" when I say "power," either. He's a fringy hitter with the bulk of his value in his glove. Actually pretty damn similar to Crisp these days - and, although there is a case to be made for Sweeney contra Crisp, Im taking Crisp at the plate and in the field. For me, Crisp is slightly better bet with the bat, slightly better bet with the glove and has more upside all around.
This is true. Then again Crisp will be turning 30, has about 3500 ML PA mostly in hitters parks and has a career 130 ISO. He ain't got any power either and we know that for a fact. (Crisp's 130 is better than Sweeney's but Sweeney's been mainly stuck in Oakland's mediocre hitting environment and is entering his prime.)
He's a fringy hitter with the bulk of his value in his glove. Actually pretty damn similar to Crisp these days - and, although there is a case to be made for Sweeney contra Crisp, Im taking Crisp at the plate and in the field.
There's no reason to take Crisp at the plate. As I mentioned, Crisp hasn't topped a 93 OPS+ since 2005 and is 30 years old. Crisp is projected to an 86 OPS+ this year and he's coming off an injury (not accounted for in his projection). Sweeney will be turning 25 and has posted OPS+ of 99 and 100 the last two years -- his ZiPS isn't out yet but applying a typical aging curve probably puts him around a 105 OPS+.
In the field -- I haven't seen either play enough to form a personal opinion. By UZR, Crisp is either a god or average. Same with Sweeney.
For me, Crisp is slightly better bet with the bat, slightly better bet with the glove and has more upside all around.
No f'ing way. Crisp is 5 years older than Sweeney. Crisp as the safer bet is arguable though I think wrong. Crisp as having more upside -- no way.
The argument Im making is that, essentially, Crisp was a few years back a pretty good hitter who looked like he was ready (both scouting and stats) to take a big step forward. Never happened. Why? Bad wrist injury after his first week in Boston. Then another injury. Then lost playing time to Ellsbury when he came back. Then he went to KC and bam - another injury. The once budding power never came back (he did post ISO's of .149 and then .165 his last two years in Cleveland and was then entering his 26 season).
There was once some reason to think Coco would be a decent hitter. Ryan Sweeney has never given me any indication of that. Id put my money on Coco returning to some kind of form over a 1 year deal rather than Sweeney doing anything - because I just dont think there's anything there w/ Sweeney. Neither is a great bet, but Ill take the slim chance of Coco returning to his pre-injury form over the never was Ryan Sweeney.
The projections don't matter that much to me, b/c Coco is somewhat of a special case b/c of the injuries.
I've always liked Crisp, going back to CLE. I could be quite happy with him in an A's uniform.
I agree strongly with #22 -- Sweeney is just never going to hit for power. His swing, his frame, all of that, just don't support that. He's good at everything else -- he is a very good baserunner -- but as a corner OF who is not a walk fiend or a Gwynn/Ichiro-type freak, you can only really be so good without hitting for power. To me he's the epitome of a very decent player who will have quite a bit of consistent value around his age-27 peak, but will never really push a club towards a championship.
The projections don't matter that much to me, b/c Coco is somewhat of a special case b/c of the injuries.
Isn't that a pretty big mark against him? I remember discussions I had when the Royals acquired Crisp - his injury seemed almost entirely predictable. He has trouble staying healthy, and knowing Oakland's past with the disabled list, it seems a virtual lock Crisp will miss significant time this year.
I will say that Crisp mentioned last spring about wanting to be more patient at the plate, and had a pretty remarkable spike in walks drawn the month or so he was healthy. Could very well be sample size craziness, but I'm willing to believe it could be a different approach to the plate that perhaps Billy recognizes.
FWIW, I didn't like the Royals acquiring Crisp as it was a seemingly pointless move, but he was a delight to watch (other than throwing) and he had a pretty infectious personality. He could have really been grumpy about being dealt from a contender to a cellar-dwellar, but he was all smiles and acted like KC was exactly the place he wanted to be. Fun guy to cheer for.
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