..."I can see where guys like Hank Aaron and some of the old-timers have a beef with it,” Arroyo says. “But as far as looking at Manny Ramirez like he’s (serial killer) Ted Bundy, you’re out of your mind. At the end of the day, you think anybody really (cares) whether Manny Ramirez’s kidneys fail and he dies at 50?

I'm supposed to answer no? What say, God?

I won't RTFA until you excerpt the paragraph where Arroyo does coke off a hooker's, uh, crack...

For those who didn't RTFA, I thought this was a great Bronson quote:

"People don't own teams to lose money. If you ask any owner whether they would rather make $20 million and come in last place or lose $20 million and win a World Series, there's only one guy who honestly would take that championship: George Steinbrenner (of the Yankees). Nobody else."

Is there any evidence that those supplements and vitamins actually help? I suspect that 99% of their effect is to get your kidneys working harder to process that crap out of your system.

I'd bet that Arroyo is an active juicer who's trying to hide in plain sight.

Is there any evidence that those supplements and vitamins actually help?

From TFA - this is in regards to amps, but I assume can be compared to any supplement. Placebos DO work.

"That stuff's like bubblegum compared to steroids," he says. "You're playing (night games) in L.A., you fly across the country, and you're pitching a day game at Wrigley (Field in Chicago). You telling me you don't want something to wake you up? You have half this country, maybe more, that can't function without a cup of coffee.

"You don't want me to get Albert Pujols out? Give me a break. If you give me (the amphetamine) Adderall, and I strike out Pujols in the seventh inning with the bases loaded, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to want to take that Adderall the next time."

This article is well worth the read.

Amphetamines aren't the same thing as vitamins and protein shakes.

I did read the article - he sounds exactly like Canseco.

There’s a caffeine drink I take from a company that (former teammate) Curt Schilling introduced me to in ‘05.

*Looks suspiciously in the direction of Schilling*

"People don't own teams to lose money. If you ask any owner whether they would rather make $20 million and come in last place or lose $20 million and win a World Series, there's only one guy who honestly would take that championship: George Steinbrenner (of the Yankees). Nobody else."

I'd guess that Arte Moreno is another guy in the "Win, even if I lose money" camp, but he's right in that most teams, and especially those owned by corporate entities, are more interested in profit than success.

I'm guessing arroyo's balls are no longer the size of saturn.

I suspect that the vast majority of players wouldn't give up $20 million for a ring, either.

A Rod

I suspect that the vast majority of players wouldn't give up $20 million for a ring, either.

The vast majority of players don't have $20M to give up.

If you changed it to a percentage of their wealth proportional to whatever $20M would be to the different owners, you might see a decent number of players willing to give up the cash in return for a championship.

Gambling AND supplements? Why hasn't he been banned for life AND lost his HoF status yet?

Ooh, and here's another good quote:

"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

Well, Bronson, I did it once 13 years ago when I only had to drive about 2 miles to get home and my reaction time breaking for redlights was so slow it scared the hell out of me enough so that I never did it again.

And yeah, Arroyo is protesting a lot lately, methinks.

especially those owned by corporate entities, are more interested in profit than success.

For a corporate-owned entity, profit is success. Shareholders don't get tiny trophies.

"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life.

"You're playing (night games) in L.A., you fly across the country, and you're pitching a day game at Wrigley (Field in Chicago).

This doesn't happen anymore, does it? I thought you couldn't have a night game followed by a day game in another time zone the very next day.

Even if it did happen, the team would certainly send its starting pitcher to Chicago a day ahead of time.

"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life.

It is an incredibly stupid thing to say, but it's probably a bit more accurate than a lot of people would like to admit - there are a ton of people who still subscribe to the "I've only had one/a couple/two or three, and it's just around the corner" theory of driving after boozing.

Or are you talking about the comparison between possible PED use and getting behind the wheel while hammered in terms of risk?

"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life.

I get the feeling that if you were to hang around with Bronson Arroyo on an everyday basis, by the end of a month that statement might have been displaced on your list by about 103 even dumber ones.

Well, Bronson, I did it once 13 years ago when I only had to drive about 2 miles to get home and my reaction time breaking for redlights was so slow it scared the hell out of me enough so that I never did it again.

No, no, that's drunk-driving. This is different.

I get the feeling that if you were to hang around with Bronson Arroyo on an everyday basis, by the end of a month that statement might have been displaced on your list by about 103 even dumber ones.

Now there's a list of 104 that I'd be happy to release.

Or are you talking about the comparison between possible PED use and getting behind the wheel while hammered in terms of risk?

The combination of the two. On top of being a very dumb thing to say out loud, it's a stupid thing to think in the first place.

It is an incredibly stupid thing to say, but it's probably a bit more accurate than a lot of people would like to admit - there are a ton of people who still subscribe to the "I've only had one/a couple/two or three, and it's just around the corner" theory of driving after boozing.

Indeed. Look at the parking lot of a bar in the suburbs. Not all of those are designated drivers.

4. Dewey, Local Boy and Hero Posted: August 13, 2009 at 08:21 AM (#3291317)
Is there any evidence that those supplements and vitamins actually help? I suspect that 99% of their effect is to get your kidneys working harder to process that crap out of your system.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence for the efficacy of creatine monohydrate, high protein diets, and Omega 3 fatty acids, to use 3 of the most commonly available and commonly used supplements.

The efficacy of creatine monohydrate is so widely accepted, the number of studies from all over the world so many, that it has reached the point where serious researchers are no longer really even bothering to conduct research on its' beneficial effects on sporting performance. They are now conducting research such as whether it can protect the brain in cases of acute traumatic shock, and even whether it can help in Alzheimer's and dementia.

Not to mention that the beneficial effects of creatine on sporting performance has long been known. The problem was always synthesising it.

The studies on the efficacy of high protein diets on sporting performance are numerous. As with creatine, serious researchers are no longer really bothering to conduct research on whether high protein diets are beneficial. Not to mention that high protein diets have long been regarded by strength athletes all over the world as essential. It just took decades for the "experts" to realise that strength athletes are not the muscle bound jock idiots that people assume them to be.

Granted, protein powders are not necessary for a high protein diet. However, they are very convenient.

Creatine monohydrate is present in all meats, so it is possible to get it by eating a lot of meat, especially beef, which has fairly high amounts of it. Again, convenience. Not to mention that not everyone is a meat lover or a meat eater.

That eating large quantities of meat / beef helps sporting performance isn't really a myth.

Studies on the beneficial effects of Omega 3 acids also abound.

Considering that the legal BAC limit is lower now than it was 13 years ago it doesn't take much to be driving while having alcohol in your system. Drinking and driving happens a lot, acting like it is rare and only Hitler clones do it seems rather silly.