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Man, a playoff game between the Mets and Brewers would be amazing. If that happens, is there any chance it would be Sabathia vs. Santana?
Things look incredibly bleak for the Astros at this moment.
Yovani Gallardo's return: A+ (4 innings, 7 SO, had a 70 pitch limit, threw 64 pitches)
Very unlikely. The only way one of the teams skips their ace on Sunday is if they are a game ahead, and that means the team behind has to throw its ace hoping to win to forge the tie. So the team w/ the lead would have the advantage of knowing that, if it lost and the other guys won, it would have Ace v. ????? for the play-off.
And if they go into Sunday tied, they both throw their ace. No choice.
Their tragic number is one. One Mets OR Brewers win eliminates them. It's just about over.
Damnit, I can't think of a better possible baseball game.
Of course, if that happens, those Phils might jump in.........
* or we'll do what we've done all year: get shutout while giving up 10 runs.
To tie. And they would have to beat the Cubs on Monday as well.
The weather was pretty awful (you have to worry about injuries in that situation) and he did let Harden go six.
He used a AAA player at first base.
Cubs rested Lee,
Yeah. That really hurt them. The AAA sub went 5-5 with two homers and five frigging RBIs. I'm sure Lee would have made ALL the difference. Sheesh.
Sorry. Stress plays havoc with my sarcasm detector. ;-)
No worries. I understood that. Heck, I'm an Expos fan but I'm often following Mets games in the chatter and I'm starting to feel the stress too! Best of luck.
Do you mean a Nationals fan?
No, not at all. I was an Expos fan but since they moved I'm kind of a lost soul. I switched to the Red Sox when the Expos moved (always been my AL team cos we often saw Red Sox games on TV in Montreal, and Pedro! was there). But I have difficulty rooting for a big money team.. that's what 25 years or so of being an Expos fan will do to you.
But the Nationals, never. I hope they suck for the next 1000 years (sorry Nats fans).
I recall the anxious feelings of having to wait until the final weekend to see the Cubs clinch in 2003 and 2007, so I empathize with Mets fans and even Brewers fans over the last several nights. Should be a fun weekend.
Seconded.
When the Yankees were up on the Red Sox 3 games to 0 in 2004, I was arguing with one of my friends, an obnoxious Yankees fan, on the odds of the Red Sox coming back to win the series. (We were both drinking.) I told him that, mathematically, the chances of the Sox coming back to win the series were 16-1, and that I would bet a dollar on the Sox to win the series if he would give me better odds than that.
He gave me 30-1! Best dollar I ever bet. :)
I think Lou would start Jim Belushi on Sunday if it came to that.
Moreover, despite the Brewers' recent hot play, I can't see them sweeping the Cubs. We're going to start seeing Lou put the pieces back together starting tomorrow. The Brew Crew's going to need to bring its A-game and not rely on beating a lineup with the likes of Koyie Hill, Casey McGehee, and Daryl Ward.
At any rate, I'm pretty excited that it's starting to look like all three teams might be forced to bring their respective aces out to pitch on Sunday.
Maybe but anybody who has ever pulled an intercostal muscle can tell you they hurt like #### and take an incredibly long time to heal since you use them in everything. I hurt one playing rugby and I was pretty much useless physically for about six weeks. I can't imagine how much it must hurt to swing a bat - I'm surprised Braun hasn't mentioned having a cortisone shot or something. I had to sleep on a different side of the bed, get out of bed differently, bend over differently, everything. Sitting got painful after a while.
Retro's been telling us all year how Lou uses Howry in high-leverage sitatuations, though.
Either your tongue's firmly planted in your cheek, or you're a complete idiot. Piniella should be fined for making the welfare of his team his paramount concern? Screw you. It is Piniella's job to ensure the success of *his* team in the postseason--not to ensure that *other* teams MAKE the postseason.
If the Brewers think it's "bad sportsmanship" to have their wildcard rivals facing the back of the Cub bullpen after the Cubs have already wrapped up home field (and in a driving rain that's a threat to the safety of everyone on the field, to boot), they shouldn't have put themselves in a position (as they have done) where they have to worry about whether the back of the Cub bullpen can beat the Mets.
**fistbump**
I'm sure they would rather have won at least one of the last two nights, sure. But being a game up on the Brewers and Mets is more comfortable than it sounds, since they only have to beat one of them. Put it this way: all the Phillies have to avoid doing is finishing with the fewest number of wins of the three teams this weekend. They can have the most, or they can tie ONE of the others, and they're in.
Despite the win last night, the Mets had to play like miracle workers to beat a Cubs lineup that featured one regular and a bullpen showing off a hurt Gaudin, Cotts, Howry, and Hart.
True, but they also had to overcome a pitching match-up of Harden, one of the best starters in the NL, against the ghost of Pedro. This weekend, the Mets will have their two most reliable starters, including the Great Johan, for two of the games, and the Fish don't have any starters like Zambrano and Harden to throw at the Mets.
Do I expect the Mets to sweep? No. But then again, I think that two of three is probably going to be good enough to get them to Monday, against somebody somewhere in some kind of play-off.
The two NL Division Series and one ALDS are all slated to begin on Wednesday night. That leaves no room for rainouts in New York this weekend.
Sure it does. Assuming the weather blows through by early Sunday like it's supposed to, the Phils and Mets both play doubleheaders on Sunday, the Mets (and Phils if necessary) finish the regular season on Monday, and if the Mets and Brewers tie, play the tiebreaker on Tuesday before the LDS begins. (Yes, this scenario needs the Phils to clinch the East to work, but I think they'll do that against the Nats at home.) Hectic schedule, but it seems sort of fitting that it'd come down to something like this, given how hard the Mets and Brewers have both worked to give this playoff spot away already.
EDIT: This also assumes the weekend's events include at least one Astros loss or at least one Brewers and/or Mets win. Otherwise, we have the clusterfcuk to end all clusterfcuks.
It would have been Marmol in the 8th not Howry. The last two games Lou tried to give it to the Mets and the Mets finally accepted a win last night.
I'm not mad at Lou for doing it, I don't really care, if anything I'm happy the Mets are in it because they look to be the easiest first round team to play at this point.
I do, too. I'd much rather be playing the Nats than the Marlins or Cubs, at this stage - even though Washington has given the Phils a lot of trouble this year.
Balester vs Blanton tonight, Lannan vs Moyer tomorrow, Perez vz TBD Sunday (if the Phils need it, it'll be Hamels).
-- MWE
It would have been Marmol in the 8th not Howry.
Right. Lou's lately been using Howry in inappropriately high-leverage situations (i.e., leads of less than 6 runs) in games that matter (specifically I remember his coming into both a tie and a one-run game), but he wouldn't have been in that spot either last night or Wednesday if Marmol weren't being rested.
If there's >1 rainout in New York in the next two days, we may see that regardless.
No kidding. The Cubs came within an eyelash of winning 3 of 4 on the road from the Brewers' main competition, Piniella's "poor sportsmanship" notwithstanding. If that's not good enough for the Brewers, they need to invest in a couple cases of Vagisil.
Sorry to pile on with this, but I feel obligated to point out how ludicrous High Standard Boy's comment was.
You're overstating it. Not that it's worth arguing, but Howry wasn't used in that many high leverage situations once they got Gaudin. He pitched a couple of times when the Cubs were trailing and helped put the game away. But he had fallen behind Samardizja and Gaudin. And the important part is the last part.
For non Brewers/Mets/Phils fans, isn't the dream scenario a DH Sunday, a makeup game Monday, a playoff game with the Phillies Tuesday to decide the NL East and a playoff game with the Brewers Wednesday to decide the wildcard. Oh, and a White Sox makeup Monday and Sox-Twins playoff Tuesday.
Four days of do-or-die baseball before the playoffs start would be fantastic.
Four days of do-or-die baseball before the playoffs start would be fantastic.
With Derek Jeter as guest analyst on ESPN.
He didn't hand the games to the mets, they still had to win them, but he could've acted like he was playing his stars. No PH appearance last night for Lee or Ramirez either. No interest whatsoever in integrity of the game.
Whaaaaaaaaa!
GMAFB. Did you see those weather conditions? He wasn't going to risk anyone valuable in that game. And you're really complaining that Theriot didn't get a PH? The guy with a .738OPS? That's rich.
If he didn't care about this integrity of the game ########, neither Harden or Zambrano would have started. Soto's resting a sore hand, DeRosa is resting a sore calf, yesterday was Derrek Lee's first day off in forever. Ramirez and Soriano have both had leg problems at some point either this year or last year, so there was no chance of them playing last night. Marmol's been worked like a ####### mule all year, he needed time off.
I can't believe anyone is complaining about the Cubs splitting a 4 game set in NY.
The Cubs lost because Marmol did not pitch in the 8th inning. Simple as that. Marmol has pitched in 80 games this year and needed a rest. If you have an issue with that, too bad. Lou's trying to win the World Series. That's kind of his JOB.
Maybe. Gaudin hasn't been sharp this week, but he's coming back off injury. The escape act Howry pulled 2 night ago had to help him, but I think we'll see both guys several times in Milw and that'll be what Lou uses as his final decision.
I think Hoff's been on the roster over Pie, because Pie and Fukudome on the bench are somewhat redundant. Last night clinched it.
No, no chance. They're going to take 11 pitches.
The ESPN broadcast was speculating that it was between Ward and Hoffpauir to get a spot. I don't know if they got that idea talking to the Cubs or invented it on their own.
I'm elated they went 2-2, based on the personnel used.
See, this is the kind of ######## I was talking about in one of the Ike threads, the one in which the Astro fans wanted the entire series made up after the season in Houston. When I said that the Cubs would be in the impossible situation of either playing their regulars in 3 games in 2 days before the start of the playoffs, or getting heaps of scorn for not doing so.
I know it's just a couple of anonymous dudes on a message board, but if had really happened the volume would go up by several hundred orders of magnitude.
More redundant than Hoffpauir and Ward? Fukudome is more likely to start than Ward, and you can always use an extra fast guy (Dave Roberts).
Take your hypothetical Cubs whining somewhere else and stop your whining. Seriously. I asked yesterday when you spouted off your crazy conspiracy theory about Bud wanting the Brewers and Mets in the playoffs over the Phils and how exactly Bud was gonna make that happen. Phils control their destiny, stop losing to shitty teams and stop complaining about the Cubs trying to what's best for them to win the World Series.
More redundant than Hoffpauir and Ward. Fukudome is more likely to start than Ward, and you can always use an extra fast guy (Dave Roberts).
Sure, if Fukudome starts. I don't think he will, and I'll take the bat. I really have no desire to see either Fukudome or Pie getting a meaningful PH opportunity. But I do see the desire for speed, and would agree if Fukudome didn't suck so much right now.
Bullshite. The Brewers should look in the mirror. They went 0-7 in the second half against the Cubs and Mets *on their home field.* They win even 2 of those games (probably one, if that one was against the Mets), they're not in this position at all.
I like how now that the Cubs are actually in a position to, well, act like a team that's clinched home field, people feel compelled to create hypothetical Cub fan whines to justify their own ACTUAL whines.
EDIT: Harris is a Phils fan, but the same argument holds. It's not Lou Piniella's fault the Phils couldn't seal the deal on their home field against the worst team Atlanta's produced since I was in high school.
Ha! Touche.
Lou has talked about taking one of the September callups if they pitch well enough with the Cubs. I have to believe he would extend the same opportunity to the guy with a 169 OPS+ from the left side.
yep - because although cox didn't start Chipper or McCann a couple times, both managed to pinch hit in crucial situations in the games, instead of being coddled.
Pinch hitting Aramis or Lee wouldn't have appreciably raised the Cubs chances of winning that baseball game.
Maybe so, but it wouldn't have hurt. More importantly, if he'd wanted to win, he'd have PH'd them.
And I guarantee you that if the Braves had clinched everything they could in the regular season, Cox would have played it exactly as Lou did.
Come September 29th, Chipper and McCann can go hit the links. The Cubs actually have something to rest up for.
And the Braves are ####### horrible, worse than the Cubs B squad at this point.
why would the cubs send up a slugger in a driving rain who didnt play at all that day to try to pinchhit and possibly hurt himself? its not worth it, they dont need the wins and if the bullpen had done its job it would have taken 3-4 from the mets so stop whining
Probably much better than the classic Dusty Baker getaway day lineups. Ugh those were so depressing. I'm not sure if it ever happened but it seemed like Neifi, Macias, and Lenny Harris all started at the same time.
...and Tom Goodwin and Troy O'Leary...
The Phillies lost on Wed. 10-4. Chipper neither started nor pinch-hit, and there were no "crucial situations" once Myers got his head handed to him for the second straight start.
The Phillies lost on Tues. 3-2. Chipper neither started nor pinch-hit, and nobody scored after the sixth inning. The only pinch-hitters Cox used were Norton and Gotay.
You might want to get your facts straight, Harris.
For the second time in 2 days.
They might have a case, too, since he's left-handed.
I would bet $5 Lenny Harris in 2003 was a worse 3B than left handed Daryle Ward.
It was atrocious... Ryan Braun's polish with, well, Lenny Harris's agility.
Less than Harris, anyway.
We need this confirmed by experiment. Fortunately, we have a few games against the Brewers that could be used...
To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, the Mets are wound so tight right now, if you stuck a lump of coal up their collective asses, by the end of the season, you would have 25 diamonds. I don't think they will make the playoffs - they seem to invent new ways to lose games every day - but if they do make it, they will be the only team playing like they don't have a care in the world. I think that they are a better team than they have looked over the past couple weeks.
Agreed. I don't know if I prefer a Mets or Dodgers matchup. As I've said before, I don't much care who the Cubs play, because (1) they'll need to play well to beat whoever they play, but (2) they have the talent that they're able to beat anybody. I'm happy to just let things shake out.
So's your mom.
You should want your manager to do the exact same thing. Risk their health playing in a tropical depression for a game that has no meaning for your team other than bragging rights? Not on your life. *I* would have been furious at Piniella if he had carted them to play in that debacle.
This happens every season, folks. Teams clinch early and the manager has to strike a balance between preserving his team for the post-season versus fielding the most competitive team possible. This is the way the MLB season works, an Piniella has struck a balance as well as anyone should expect. Oh, and his team is 3-2 since clinching, with four games on the road against one of the best teams in the league. They're not exactly phoning it in.
Actually, I believe the job of everyone involved in major league baseball's number one priority is to promote the game of baseball (winning is part of that). One team lying down for another in a game with playoff implications doesn't not promote the game of baseball or the major league baseball franchise. I will be equally upset if the Cubs do the same versus the Brewers this weekend.
So, it does promote the game of baseball or the major league baseball franchise. But which?
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