There will be a playoff game and Pedro will get rocked, making this the worst season ever.

I don't think there's anyway the Mets win a playoff against the Brewers.

IF NECESSARY: IF O PEREZ SOMEHOW MAKES IT THROUGH THE 2ND INNING: When is the Brewers @ Mets game Monday? Day game? Night game?

How does a playoff on Monday affect all the "Final Regular Season Game in Shea" stuff? Second, with the season on the line, will they tone down or ever do away with all the pomp and majesty I assumed was planned?

Between this and WI loss I have had better sports days.

Cripes Torres pixie dust has disappeared. Not good considering that tomorrow he will almost certainly be needed.

Sigh.....

How does a playoff on Monday affect all the "Final Regular Season Game in Shea" stuff? Second, with the season on the line, will they tone down or ever do away with all the pomp and majesty I assumed was planned

What, were they going to dress up the rats?

Cripes Torres pixie dust has disappeared.

I think Gagne took it.

Gagne was so bad for so long this year, the fact he's actually been pretty good this month has gone under the radar.

The whole non-Torres part of the pen has been OK recently, really.

And here's the injustice of it all: Even with a wildcard there will still be 4 NL teams that finish with better records than the playoff-bound Dodgers that will not make the postseason: Marlins, Astros, Cards, and the Mets/Brewers loser.

There will be a playoff game and Pedro will get rocked, making this the worst season ever.
I don't think there's anyway the Mets win a playoff against the Brewers.

Russlan, you are starting to piss me off.

I'm sorry Lassus but I really don't want Pedro's last performance in a Met uniform to be a Glavine encore. This season has been painful enough already. And because this year is meant to torture me, I fear it's going to happen.

Off topic, but can any Brewer fan explain the findings of this oh-so-scientific study?

White Sox are toast. No subway series this year.

So, if the Mets don't make the playoffs now, it'll come because they lose the last game of the season in the last game ever played in Shea? Awesome.

This is getting eerie in comparison to 2007...

Tied going into the final Friday. We lost and our rival won, putting us in dire straits. Then on Saturday we won, behind a stellar pitching performance from our most reliable starter (Maine last year), and got help when our rival lost to forge a tie again.

White Sox are toast. No subway series this year.

I think that game in hand might come in handy (pardon the pun)

Indians are giving them a toweling now however

Braun signed a long-term deal that was extremely favorable to the team, he speaks out when he feels he needs to and acts as a team leader, until he was injured he was the best hitter on the team, and played decently when asked to move to a position he had never played.

Fielder has rejected a long term offer and complained that he was re-upped for less than a million this season, has skipped certain fan events, his performance dropped (of course it was going to, but we're talking about the expectations of the common fan), and he has become a leviathan that has cost the team defensively.

Milwaukee (and Wisconsin) is sensitive about athletes that won't commit to staying here and wish to leave. Braun signing a great deal for the Brewers and Fielder choosing not to has certainly impacted their appeal to the local fans.

If the Brewers don't make the playoffs, and this was the end of Sheets' season, how much money has he cost himself with this latest injury?

He's got a balky elbow going into free agency, so it'll be interesting to see if any team is willing to risk a multi-year deal for big $$$. I'd be inclined to say no, but with pitching at such a premium and it only taking one team to make such an offer... it's possible.

A deal revolving around innings-based incentives seems to be likeliest path right now.
I suppose when the Brewers offer arb, Sheets could also end up accepting it, and take the one-year payday with hopes of raising his market value next offseason.

Can't find any official announcement for tiebreaker game time. StubHub has an entry for it as a 1 PM event, though:

http://www.stubhub.com/new-york-mets-tickets/mets-vs-brewers-9-29-2008-727141/

Were tickets officially sold for the game yet? Or is that season ticketholders preemptively posting them? (Do season ticket packages come with tix for a hypothetical game 163?)

Wow, this season is shaping out about as exciting as possible for a fan of an already eliminated team. I'm hoping the Brewers make it, but I really hope it takes a playoff game against the Mets first. I'm just pissed it can't be CC vs. Johan.

The Phillies starting selling tickets online yesterday to season ticketholders for two tiebreaker games. I assume the Mets did as well.

CC has pitched his last two starts on 3 days rest. 12 2/3 innings, 213 pitches. The start before these he came off 5 days rest and threw 99 pitches.

As a lefty it's fairly certain that Lou will send out most of the rightie A-team including Soriano, Ramirez and Lee. Fukudome has tormented Milwaukee but he's terrible against lefties so that's unlikely. DeRosa is out with injury. I would think Soto would be held back as well. No Edmonds. These are all positives because:

Fukudome against Milwaukee: .398/.465/.698 (all numbers BEFORE this evening)
DeRosa against Milwaukee: .295/.411/.318
Edmonds against Milwaukee: .467/.500/1.267(!!!)

Edmonds has four homers in 16 at bats against Milwaukee. Fukudome has 10 homers, 3 of them against the crew.

Soto has clubbed the Brewers to the tune of .289/.377/.622

Soriano is the concern tomorrow as he has lit up CC for at least a homer and a double in CC's two starts against the Cubs. And it might be a bit more than that. But that's from memory.

Anyway, CC will be pumped pitching at home in this situation which means the first inning is critical. He sometimes comes out wild and against a patient team like the Cubs that could spell an early deficit.

Hart is exactly the type of pitcher who gives Milwaukee trouble. Right-handed, pounds the strike zone and gets strikeouts. Hart hasn't been a world beater but in 113 Triple A innings has struck out 102 hitters and walked 43. And that with no definite role having both relieved and started games in Iowa.

Milwaukee needs to get a bit lucky and have Howry in the game at some point.....

Is Hart official? After the game today they were talking about Zambrano starting.

After the game today they were talking about Zambrano starting.

Zambrano will pitch the first inning... MAYBE the second inning at most. It's going to be a brief cameo appearance as a final tuneup.

After that, it's middle reliever tryout time again, according to Lou.

EDIT: Guess Lou changed his mind. It's now Guzman starting.

After naming Carlos Zambrano as his starter Sunday and saying he would pitch an inning or two, manager Lou Piniella switched course after Saturday's game and replaced Zambrano with Angel Guzman.

"It's not going to matter because, well, it is going to matter but it's not going to matter," Piniella said in his best imitation yet of Casey Stengel.
...
But what Piniella was trying to say was that whoever his starter was, he was planning on pitching him only an inning or two anyway, having decided already that Sunday will be a "bullpen day" where almost everyone on the playoff roster will get one final chance to throw before Game 1 Wednesday.
...
Piniella said he will play his regular lineup against left-handers on Sunday, which means Derrek Lee, Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez will be back in the starting lineup.

“That was it,” said Sheets, who might have thrown his last pitch here. “That was all I had.”

He was asked, delicately, if he was glad he tried.

“Nope,” he said. “Because it didn’t work out well.”
...
“He had nothing,” an NL scout in the stands said. “He’s pitching hurt. You could see it even when he was warming up. The curve had no snap, the fastball didn’t have its usual carry. Nothing.”

Presumably, none of that was apparent in his bullpen work.

“I really thought in my mind I could go out and get us through five or six quality innings,” Sheets said.

And the elbow?

“Of course I was feeling something,” he said.

Yahoo! Sports

Well, having missed both of the last two games due to a commitment I couldn't break or miss, I return with everything pretty much the way it was when I left, at least on the WC side of things. The quo is status, except two games have been ripped off the schedule. And then there was one. The Brewers clearly have the advantage -- the Mets have used their ace (to magnificent effect), and the Brewers have theirs ready to go tomorrow. On short rest, yes, but that didn't exactly hurt Johan today, now did it?

The Mets have this to go on: they have always owned Scott Olsen, he of the big mouth, short temper, and complete lack of poise. This season, for example, in four starts Mr. Olsen is 0-3 with a 6.95 ERA:

22 IP 28 H 17 R 17 ER 6 HR 6 BB 14 K

His career numbers against the Mets aren't much better (1-5, 4.89 ERA. 70 IP, 81 H, 12 HR, 22/53 BB/K).

I'd make the Mets slight favorites in their game, and the Brewers much stronger favorites in theirs.

Too bad Tatis is hurt. I guess we will go with Evans/Church. I would rather go with Evans/Murphy.

I would rather go with Evans/Murphy.

If all that mattered was hitting Olsen, maybe. And I'd do that if Pelfrey, or perhaps Johan was pitching. But not Ollie. Too many fly balls for that OF alignment. You can't put all that on poor Carlos I. You have to have Church or Endy in the game for the glove.

Are both games played at the same time?
It wouldn't shock me for Lou to temper how hard he plays the brewers based on how the mets are doing.
It's in the cubs best interest to have a potential playoff opponent go another game, I guess. Ideally, the brewers and mets would tie, then the mets would win the playoff game and the cubs would face them on short rest. But if the brewers won the game, then they'd simply be helping the phillies.

Mets game starts an hour earlier.

Are both games played at the same time?

The Mets' game starts an hour earlier.

My guess is that the Cubs would strongly prefer the Brewers NOT win the WC, on the ground that they view the Dodgers as a more dangerous first round opponent than the Mets. Their chances to face the Mets are enhanced, either way, by beating the Brewers. If they do, and the Mets win, it's a done deal. And if they do but the Mets lose, then there's a play-off Monday. So regardless of what's going on in New York, the Cubs have reason to want to win -- if I'm right in my initial premise.

All that said, Lou won't do it at the expense of risking injury to an important player. Anybody who is nursing a boo-boo or even scratching an itch or coughing won't play.

My guess is that the Cubs would strongly prefer the Brewers NOT win the WC

I haven't seen much evidence that Piniella is showing much concern one way or another who their first round opponent is. I know it's a popular topic on the internet and what-not, but Piniella seems pretty well focused on his own teams, but the others.

I haven't seen much evidence that Piniella is showing much concern one way or another who their first round opponent is.

He's certainly been trotting out a bunch of nobodys lately.

Every once in a while we get one of these. Harris seems to be the latest incarnation.

He's certainly been trotting out a bunch of nobodys lately.

With Lou announcing Johnny Wholestaff will be pitching tomorrow, I don't think there's a pitcher who's been around longer (although I couldn't tell you his career record off the top of my head).

Johnny's done it all, seen it all. He was pitching before Moyer was even born.

i like to be a stupid rock to irritate cubs fans.
at least your team has had more futility than mine in our respective lifetimes.

in all fairness - that's a rather humorous site. thanks for the link.

I haven't seen much evidence that Piniella is showing much concern one way or another who their first round opponent is.

He's certainly been trotting out a bunch of nobodys lately.

But he's been doing it against both the Mets AND the Brewers, so I fail to see how he is helping either team in any way.

Fukudome has tormented Milwaukee but he's terrible against lefties so that's unlikely.

Fukudome vs left-handers: .276 BA and a .371 OBP.
Fukudome vs right-handers: .251 BA and a .354 OBP.

As for the actual game I think it depends on how much the Cubs players care about who they play. The Brewers are not the hated enemy so their is no satisfaction by booting them out of the playoffs. If the players want NY instead of Milwaukee the game could be interesting. If they don't care or want Milwaukee in then it won't be as interesting.

I still say the Brewers take 2 out of 3 from the Cubs, so the Mets have to win as well tomorrow.

I believe that, seeing as how this is going to be their last tune-up before the playoffs, each individual Cub player that goes out there is going to want to end on a "high note" and have a little bit of last-minute success under his belt before going to the postseason. So, yeah, I think the team as a whole is going to be trying to play as well as possible. They may not have the ultimate goal of "winning" on their minds, but good play tends to lead to wins, so indirectly, they will be "trying to win" And I think ultimately, the good feeling they will achieve from playing well will trump any external considerations of "who will we play?"

Whether they actually will win or not is another story. But I don't see any of the Cubs "dogging it" in any way tomorrow.

Brewers situation is similar to the White Sox. Sure, I'd like to see them beat the Mets to sneak into the playoffs, but without Ben Sheets, how well are they really going to do in the playoffs? For the sake of quality of competition, it would make more sense to see the Mets there.

Same thing with the White Sox. Without Carlos Quentin they can play mediocrely and still sneak into the playoffs, but they aren't the same team that spent most of the season becoming the division winner.

Sheets and Gallardo have been on the 25 man roster for nearly 2 full seasons. Yet they have both been healthy and pitching for a grand total of about 6 starts.

Can a Mets fan explain how on earth they didn't sell out Shea on Friday? 5-6,000 unsold tickets and 25,000 no shows. Embarrassing. Disgraceful for a city/metro area of 20,000,000 that is closing out a stadium and in the middle of a playoff chase.

Can a Mets fan explain how on earth they didn't sell out Shea on Friday?

Because that number of people are often coming from the Island, driving, hours in and hours out; and everyone was told it was going to rain, rain, rain, and rain some more, and too much to actually play.

I can only assume you'll come up with a reason why that isn't good enough to make you think twice about throwing around words like embarrassing and disgraceful. Hyperbole much?

Maybe the Mets should look into a roof. No? Maybe the Brewers can't afford CC, but they can afford a roof.

The city's already putting more into all 3 new stadiums than it can afford. The roof was deleted to get it built. It really doesn't need one.

Those Fukudome numbers are completely misleading. The last three odd months Fukudome has been lost against lefties.

This was discussed regularly on this site both in Chatters and in threads.

Just to clarify, here are his splits:

Vs. Left-handers
July: .250/.318/.350/668
Aug: .250/.367/.292/659
Sept: .300/.364/.400/764

vs. Right-handers
July: .232/.303/.391/694
Aug: .169/.261/.237/498
Sept: .143/.268/.257/525

Jeebus, those RHP numbers are so bad, there's no happiness gained in saying, "He hits lefties better!"

CF:

Well, I was somewhat correct but had not accounted for September since he had played so sparingly of late I discounted them.

What are the AB totals with each? Lou has been pretty open in his criticism of the player hence I figure they must be pretty light.

I would check but am operating handheld from a barn monitoring some sick pups.

I haven't seen much evidence that Piniella is showing much concern one way or another who their first round opponent is.

He's certainly been trotting out a bunch of nobodys lately.

But he's been doing it against both the Mets AND the Brewers, so I fail to see how he is helping either team in any way.

I was not insinuating he was showing a preference.

i have to admit, it was a smart idea to shut down primer during another Mets collapse.

are we sure this is even the Mets? the whole season came down to Ayala, Church and maybe even Schneider

congrats, brewer fans...

I was wondering why Primer wasn't working all day. What a performance by Sabathia.

CC is a beast. The Brewers got everything they paid for, and more

The Yankees and Mets collapses do take the sting out of the Dbacks stinker.
Thanks, Yankees.
Thanks, Mets.

I figured it was intentional.

Can we get a second Mets Fan Self-Immolation Thread?

Yeah, I pictured the BTF server hiding until the games were over.

My sympathies to the Mets fans.

Sincerely,

Harvey

Come on, Harvey, you can do so much better than this :)

CC is a beast. The Brewers got everything they paid for, and more

Please. What a terrible trade for the Brewers. Sabathia is just a rental, and they gave up good prospects for him. That's a bad trade, just ask that Duck guy.

Good job by Jerry Manuel to do everything possible to lose.

Can the Mets please still fire Omar even though he got that extension?

Please. What a terrible trade for the Brewers. Sabathia is just a rental, and they gave up good prospects for him. That's a bad trade, just ask that Duck guy.

Without him, the Brewers don't make the playoffs. Even if it is a rental, it's worth it.

I imagine flournoy was being sarcastic

Super ####### weak sauce to BBTF.

So Wes Helms hits the game winning homer to send the Brewers to the postseason. I wonder if that affects Harvey's opinion of him.

levski:

Milwaukee fell across the finish line. The offense vanished in September, Salomon Torres blew multiple games, and if not for CC the starting pitching would have been nonexistent.

It took a heroic effort by the big man and luck to generate this result.

While part of me is glad for the players and the organization it is tempered by the fact that this team won its spot by virtue of its efforts in July and August. Which still count. But come Wednesday the Brewers will be faced with a talented team TRYING to win.

That hasn't happened in about two weeks...........And prior to that Milwaukee took a beating when they DID encounter someone of stature.

Oh Harvey, you're too magnanimous
And, it's the playoffs. Youneverknow

Harveys,

I would have been thrilled if the Jays could have fallen across the finish line. Instead, they broke an ankle around the second turn. Whether or not the Brewers charged in or backed in, they key thing is that they're still in the playoffs, and that anything can happen from this point onwards.

How many starts in a row did CC go on 3 days rest?

Anyway, this is definitely the most impressive performance by a midseason acquisition since RJ in '98. I just can't get over how dominating CC has been down the stretch, especially as hard as he's been worked.

Anyway, this is definitely the most impressive performance by a midseason acquisition since RJ in '98. I just can't get over how dominating CC has been down the stretch, especially as hard as he's been worked.

I'm still partial to Will Clark's berserker rampage in St. Louis, but Sabathia has been an absolute beast (and has probably added another $5M a year to his next contract).

starks year end summary pointed out that CC accomplished the odd feat of leading "both" leagues in shutouts.

Kyle:

This is his third straight start on short rest. Thursday will be his fourth.

I am guessing on Thursday. But can anyone make an argument that Sveum should pitch Dave Bush???

I'm still partial to Will Clark's berserker rampage in St. Louis

My love for you is ticking clock berserker...

Congratulations to the Brewers and their fans on the playoff berth. Although personally I would rather the Cubs be playing the Mets in the first round, as a potentially easier opponent, it was a great race for five months and two weeks with you guys. As a respected fellow Midwest team and rival, I'm happy to offer you a big "good job".

(No offense intended to any of the good Mets fans on here.)

I knew Gillick's Sleeper Cell plan would work: Sign Helms, suffer one bad season, stash him with the Marlins, and activate him at the right moment.

Turns out the Phils didn't need it, and it came a day late, but a brilliant plan nonetheless.

starks year end summary pointed out that CC accomplished the odd feat of leading "both" leagues in shutouts.

He's also now the ML leader in IP and CG. It's one hell of a year.

My love for you is ticking clock berserker...

Thank you for only quoting that line.

"Did he just say making ####?"

I am guessing on Thursday. But can anyone make an argument that Sveum should pitch Dave Bush???

No. But won't Bush pick game #1 anyway? Or will it be Gallardo? McClung? Suppan? Bernie?

Ryan - I'm not sure you grasped the whole point there. He didn't just lead MLB in shutouts, he led the AL owing to his time w/ the Indians, and the NL owing to his time w/ the Brewers.

I doubt that's ever happened before.

Save:

Again, my guess is Suppan gets the call. More rest and he is the "veteran".......

hehe - and i'm laughing as I see Bob Howry got the loss. I didn't know he was that bad until all the cubbie fans had been bashing him this week.

Ryan - I'm not sure you grasped the whole point there. He didn't just lead MLB in shutouts, he led the AL owing to his time w/ the Indians, and the NL owing to his time w/ the Brewers.

I got your point. I'm just also impressed that he's managed to lead MLB in inning and CGs (1st in NL, 3rd in AL) while splitting time across both leagues, as well as second in strikeouts.

Can we get a second Mets Fan Self-Immolation Thread?
As long as Mets fans have a reason to set themselves on fire, I shall live forever.

Howry is sucktastic. I can't believe he's on the postseason roster instead of Wuertz.

Do you think there's any chance we'll ever be told/find out what happened to BBTF's server today? Because I'm obviously super-paranoid right now, but if this was intentional I'm gonna go all Rob Base on Szymborski and Furtado.

Okay, no I'm not. But man, being without BBTF today was pretty harsh.

Thank you for only quoting that line.

Heh. Yes, I chose my reference carefully.

My love for you is like a truck berserker...

I'm still partial to Will Clark's berserker rampage in St. Louis, but Sabathia has been an absolute beast (and has probably added another $5M a year to his next contract).

Justice and Hill did pretty well after getting traded that year, too.

Kyle:

This is his third straight start on short rest. Thursday will be his fourth.

I am guessing on Thursday. But can anyone make an argument that Sveum should pitch Dave Bush???

Thanks, Harvey.

I wonder how many Cy Young votes he'll get. I'd have a hard time giving it to him over Lincecum, but I think I'd at least have him 2nd on my ballot.

I did predict that the Brewers only chance today was for Howry to get in the game.

Post 20: Milwaukee needs to get a bit lucky and have Howry in the game at some point.....

hehe - and i'm laughing as I see Bob Howry got the loss. I didn't know he was that bad until all the cubbie fans had been bashing him this week.

what's ironic, of course, is that howry got out of that bases loaded, 1 out jam at shea earlier this week...

what's ironic, of course, is that howry got out of that bases loaded, 1 out jam at shea earlier this week...

The Brewers wanted to piss away the WC berth slightly less than the Mets did.

congrats to the brewers. i think cc just had the best strech performance iv ever seen. great race to the finish

Again, my guess is Suppan gets the call. More rest and he is the "veteran".......

Meh. Seems like a good "safe" choice...but don't you want to take some risks when you're the underdog? Wouldn't it be better to throw a Hail Mary and try to get another hot start out of McClung, or see what Gallardo can do? If you could steal game 1 with CC going in game 2 that would be beyond huge. Seems like the Brewers' best chance to win the series and worth taking a risk for. And if it fails spectacularly? Well, you "probably weren't going to win anyway".

But that's just an outsider's opinion. YMMV.

Do you think there's any chance we'll ever be told/find out what happened to BBTF's server today? Because I'm obviously super-paranoid right now, but if this was intentional I'm gonna go all Rob Base on Szymborski and Furtado.

I'll be interested to hear the explanation, and there had better be one. An apology as well. I don't care if I don't pay anything to come here, today was ridiculous.

I'll be interested to hear the explanation, and there had better be one. An apology as well. I don't care if I don't pay anything to come here, today was ridiculous.

Someone needs a chill pill

Probably Syzmborski & Furtado signed the server to a 3-year extension a couple of days ago, thereby ensuring a collapse.

At any rate, condolences to the Mets fans here. Nobody deserves this sort of ending 2 seasons in a row.

Well, except for the Wilpons.

Which is sort of a problem if one is a Mets fan.

The Brewers wanted to piss away the WC berth slightly less than the Mets did.

Told you so, retro.

Congrats to the Brewers. The team and their fans really deserve it. NTN can be a #####, but they are a decent lot and i'm happy for them.

Congrats to all Brewers fans! Amazing performance from CC.

When was the last time a team made it into the postseason with a rotation in tatters like this.? CC for sure will get Game 2 (on three days rest again) and game 5 (if needed). Other that that, the team doesn't know. Gallardo could be the game 1 starter, but he's not stretched out, so he basically needs a guy like McClung to be designated to pick up a few innings. Game 3 is probably Bush and Game 4 is probably Suppan if needed(I don't see Gallardo coming back on 3 days).

How does that Minaya extension feel right now? Didn't the Wilpons realize how dumb that would look if this very situation came to pass?

Congratulations to the Brewers, and their fans. They've had a great year, and Sabathia has been phenomenal.

As for the Mets, well, ####, what can I say at this point that hasn't been said. This was a good team, and I'm very disappointed.

congrats harvey!!!

i'm so happy for you (and your blood pressure. and your wife. and the house beagle)

also happy for all the other brewers fans of course

and i haven't seen anything like CC since RJ for my stros in 98. i hope that your team gives CC some run support unlike the killed bees

BREWERS VS RAYS IN THE WS!!!!!!

and now i got to stop crying after having to say goodbye to hot sweet darling bradley all afternoon
sob
sob

and he hit a homer in his very last game to get the W for wandy.
such a shame wandy isn't hot

I will be rooting for the Brewers the rest of the way.

I will ESPECIALLY be rooting for them to sweep the Phillies.

The Mets would have made the playoffs if Maine hadn't gotten hurt or Pedro had been reasonably decent or their bullpen had been reasonably decent. But this season wouldn't be nearly so bad without last season; it would just be a season in which the team contended to the final day, but lost, which is a normal, non-embarrassing occurance. With last season, it's a second-straight collapse, and it's crazy that they can't fire Minaya now, because of the extension. The replacement could be worse, though.

Does Milwaukee have any chance of beating the Phillies? Sabathia will win his two games as certainly as anything, but the Phillies offense will grind any and all other Brewers starters to hamburger.

Also, I'm disappointed that there was no BTF today. It's amazing how much this site has become entangled with my enjoyment of baseball--in fact, it's about the only thing I still enjoy about baseball.