DJ is kind of a cipher in there and always has been, so while he doesn't annoy, he doesn't inform, either. He's smooth, though, I'll say that.

Hawk doesn't seem to want to stand up for his partner, either; read the weasel words he uses toward DJ, "everyone knows how I feel about DJ", "I'm not going to tell them what to do". Way to be a stand-up guy, Hawk.

In his first couple of years, DJ reminded me of the color guy Bob Uecker worked with in Major League. He's taken a couple of steps back from that.

Hawk doesn't seem to want to stand up for his partner, either; read the weasel words he uses toward DJ, "everyone knows how I feel about DJ", "I'm not going to tell them what to do". Way to be a stand-up guy, Hawk.

Well, the thing is, Hawk works best when the booth is all about Hawk. Stone would add a new and interesting spice to the all Hawk all the time dimension up there.

Recall that they also got rid of DJ's superior in talent, Tom Paciorek, with hardly a ripple. I'd've sooner gotten rid of Harrelson, and I like Harrelson.

Well, the thing is, Hawk works best when the booth is all about Hawk. Stone would add a new and interesting spice to the all Hawk all the time dimension up there.

Yeah, I simply can't see that pairing working for more than a month. Hawk gets his feathers ruffled (no pun intended) pretty easily, and Stone's not necessarily a party line guy. From the first moment Stone doesn't kiss the ass of every player in a Sox uniform, there's going to be a lot of tension in that booth.

Stone could get away with not being a total homer when he worked with Harry because Harry probably never listened to him anyway, but Hawk is VERY thin skinned. Should be fun to watch though.

The first week of the season or so, Steve Stone and Ed Farmer were not getting along well. Now they are very good together. I think management had a little chat with Farmer, something along the lines of: "We value the services of Steve Stone more than yours. Get along or get lost." A similar chat with Harrelson might not work.

A similar chat with Harrelson might not work.

Plus, I don't think they value the services of Stone over Hawk.

Plus, I don't think they value the services of Stone over Hawk.

I dunno. I realize it was a different team, but Stone built up an awful lot of good will in Chicago for his long tenure as Harry's straight-man.

Stone could get away with not being a total homer when he worked with Harry because Harry probably never listened to him anyway

I do recall Harry would sometimes disagree with something he had no business disagreeing with; Stone would just politely hold his ground. He's good at polite.

Plus, I don't think they value the services of Stone over Hawk.

When Paciorek was let go, he said he was told it was because he wasn't opinionated enough. Maybe they're finally realizing Jackson is at best a pleasant zero and doing something about it. And you don't hire Steve Stone for pleasant zero-itude. Hawk was able to bully Jackson until DJ learned what he could and could not say; Stone won't go for that, so as Shredder says, interesting times may be a-comin'.

I dunno. I realize it was a different team, but Stone built up an awful lot of good will in Chicago for his long tenure as Harry's straight-man.

Yeah, but with White Sox fans? I just get the feeling that a lot of Sox fans really like Harrelson, probably partly because fans of every other team hate him. I wouldn't be surprised of the Sox brass likes Stone better. Most people who know baseball probably do. But I wonder if it would be a bad business decision.

as a sox fan and a radio fan, I hope stone stays on radio. he and farmer work really well together and do everything a broadcast team should be doing.

also as a sox fan, I know it won't happen, but hawk needs to go. he's horrible. obnoxious. total homer, but not in a santo-kind-of-cute-and-funny sort of way.

darren = blah

Stone could get away with not being a total homer when he worked with Harry because Harry probably never listened to him anyway, but Hawk is VERY thin skinned. Should be fun to watch though.

While Harry was a 'homer' -- both when he worked on the north AND south side - he wasn't at all averse to slamming a play, an action, a managerial move, etc on the field.

His rooting interests certainly shone through during his PBP, he had no problem making it loud and clear when he through a pitcher shoulda been pulled the previous inning... or slamming a lapse in concentration... or going on rant about a pathetic at-bat.

He DID, however, always keep it about the specific play or instance - I don't recall Caray ever going beyond "that play was ####" or that "at-bat was ####" into "that player is ####" or "that batter is ####".

Granted, I probably don't listen to Hawk often enough to make this criticism -- but since that's never stopped a Primate before, I make it anyways.

Hawk Harrelson seems to be the consummate ass kisser.

When I listen to him, I get the distinct impression that all Sox hitters are supermen -- only make outs when the other team cheats, the ump screws them, or one of the opposing, lesser skilled players gets extraordinarily lucky.... Meanwhile, every Sox pitcher would be a shoo-in for a perfect game, with 27 Ks if only the umps weren't squeezing the Sox pitcher, etc.

Homerism isn't the issue... blind homerism is.

Yeah, but with White Sox fans? I just get the feeling that a lot of Sox fans really like Harrelson, probably partly because fans of every other team hate him. I wouldn't be surprised of the Sox brass likes Stone better. Most people who know baseball probably do. But I wonder if it would be a bad business decision.

There's no way that Reinsdorf would think of letting the Hawk go. Reinsdorf is loyal, this is Hawk's second stint as an announcer, and the man was GM for one very bad year. I don't care what the media, "smart" baseball fans, or anyone else think about Hawk or Stone, if it comes down to Hawk or Stone then I'd say it's about 99.99999% likely that Reinsdorf keeps Hawk.

I still love Hawk. The blind homerism is amusing, Hawk really enjoys baseball, his "old timey" stories are pretty amusing, and he's the only announcer in any sport that comes up with original nicknames. I know I'm in the minority, I think he's great.

and he's the only announcer in any sport that comes up with original nicknames

again, I think he's horrible, but I will give you hawk's nicknaming ability.

When I listen to him, I get the distinct impression that all Sox hitters are supermen -- only make outs when the other team cheats, the ump screws them, or one of the opposing, lesser skilled players gets extraordinarily lucky.... Meanwhile, every Sox pitcher would be a shoo-in for a perfect game, with 27 Ks if only the umps weren't squeezing the Sox pitcher, etc.

That's not even the worst aspect of the way he calls a game. For me it's the open rooting for the Sox. I can understand getting excited when the Sox do something good. He knows all the players well, probably knows their families, spends a lot of time on the road with the team, etc. But when he starts saying "C'mon, Paulie, take him deep right here. Take him right here". That's the stuff that ticks me off.

Of course, all of this is from the perspective of someone who really doesn't care for the White Sox, so take it with a grain of salt. When they play the Angels, I typically leave the sound off. I only turn it up when the Angels score, because I love to hear the disappointment.

But when he starts saying "C'mon, Paulie, take him deep right here. Take him right here". That's the stuff that ticks me off.

See, I don't mind that. Of course, I'm a White Sox fan. If I'm watching the game by myself, I have another fan watching and cheering with the Hawk.

I honestly would love to see every stat heads dream announcer. They'd be the most boring person to ever announce any sport. No emotion, no cheering, no stories, just reciting of stats.

See, I don't mind that. Of course, I'm a White Sox fan. If I'm watching the game by myself, I have another fan watching and cheering with the Hawk.


That's Hawk's redeeming quality (for me, at least). I can't think of any announcer who's more passionate than Hawk is. When the Sox are getting their asses beat, you can hear the disappointment/sadness (or whatever you want to call it) in his voice. When the Sox are winning, his excitement is real, and his emotions usually match mine.

And like you, I don't mind any criticism leveled his way. I like him because I like the White Sox and as such would probably dislike him if I were a fan of any other team.

I honestly would love to see every stat heads dream announcer. They'd be the most boring person to ever announce any sport. No emotion, no cheering, no stories, just reciting of stats.

Mine's Vin Scully. I think you can show emotion and tell stories without being a total homer.

santos a pretty big homer for the cubs, but he will say posative things about the opposing team and players

I honestly would love to see every stat heads dream announcer. They'd be the most boring person to ever announce any sport. No emotion, no cheering, no stories, just reciting of stats.

Well, first of all, he'd be made of straw...

I like him because I like the White Sox and as such would probably dislike him if I were a fan of any other team.

You just described A.J., and possibly Ozzie.

I don't recall Caray ever going beyond "that play was ####" or that "at-bat was ####" into "that player is ####" or "that batter is ####".

If he didn't say it about Candy Maldonado it's only because they cut off his mic. Haray ####### loathed Candy Maldonado.

santos a pretty big homer for the cubs, but he will say posative things about the opposing team and players


Santo is just as big a homer as Hawk is. The difference is Hawk is actually prepared for his job, Santo isn't. Santo is terrible, he doesn't know 80% of the guys in MLB.

Hawk will say plenty of positive things about the other team.

When the Sox are getting their asses beat, you can hear the disappointment/sadness (or whatever you want to call it) in his voice.

The only thing that's really funny during games the Sox get crushed is listening to Hawk. I remember one guy the Sox were getting killed, and someone hit another HR. You heard the crack of the bat and Hawk just said, "Damn it"

That's Hawk's redeeming quality (for me, at least). I can't think of any announcer who's more passionate than Hawk is. When the Sox are getting their asses beat, you can hear the disappointment/sadness (or whatever you want to call it) in his voice. When the Sox are winning, his excitement is real, and his emotions usually match mine.

Passion I don't think is the problem. hawk is like having a friend that blames everyone but him/her self for their failures and problems. After a while, it's hard to be friends with that person.

It's hard for me as a Sox fan to listen to a guy who can't simply be honest about what is happening. Ultimately, he does a disservice to the listener/viewer who may not be adept at recognizing and understanding the game's nuances.

Harry ####### loathed Candy Maldonado.

OTOH, another Harry (Kalas) loved Candy Maldonado -- or at least loved saying his name. When John Rooney did Sox games, I recall he once did an impression of Kalas saying "Can-dy Mal-do-na-do."

Mine's Vin Scully.

Well, yeah...that's an impossible standard, though. Scully is sui generis. I would put him in the HOF...and not in any broadcaster's wing, either, I would flat put him in.

I think most statheads love Boog Sciambi, and Len Kasper gets pretty good marks. But I think #20 got the right answer.

Dan Shulman is also really good.

Santo is just as big a homer as Hawk is. The difference is Hawk is actually prepared for his job, Santo isn't. Santo is terrible, he doesn't know 80% of the guys in MLB.

Hawk will say plenty of positive things about the other team.

Ah yes, the classic Sox fan's opinion of a Cubbie announcer. I honestly think Santo is a far more likable "homer" announcer than Hawk, but that's just my opinion. (And for the record, I live on the South Side and care not a whit about either team, really.)

Santo is only likable because the Cubs never win anything. He's not as annoying as Hawk at this point, but they're not dissimilar -- he's Hawk minus some of the ego, plus a nice amount of early-stage dementia.

Ah yes, the classic Sox fan's opinion of a Cubbie announcer. I honestly think Santo is a far more likable "homer" announcer than Hawk, but that's just my opinion.

I thought we were talking about how big a homer these guys were. When did "likability" come into it?

As a Sox fan who has loathed Hawk Harrelson for a quarter of a century, any move to reign his bloviating in is welcome. Stone has as good a chance as anyone to do that, so here's hoping he'll move into the TV booth next year.

What I'd really love is if Stone worked TV games and they replaced Hawk with John Rooney or Robin Ventura. I don't think Rooney's coming back, but a Stone-Ventura team would be more entertaining than any Sox TV crew since they broke up the Harry Caray-Jimmy Piersall team in 1981.

I honestly would love to see every stat heads dream announcer. They'd be the most boring person to ever announce any sport. No emotion, no cheering, no stories, just reciting of stats.

No cheering, yes. As for no stories, it seems that the concern of people here is stories that are completely unrelated to either the announcer's experience, or to the game that is going on. Most people don't have a problem with Joe Morgan going off on tangents that are informed by his career, unless he is being insanely repetitive. But they have a problem with him talking about random current events that he finds more interesting than the game.

And as for stats, the proper place for them, since it's TV and all, is a tasteful bar at the bottom of the screen, unless they are particularly relevant to the situation ("Pujols is 0 for his last 15 against Barthmaier" is small sample size, but it does tell you something about how the players are approaching the situation).

The main thing statheads seem to want, and consistently never get, is information about how the players are approaching the at-bat. Maybe the fielders are shifting, or the batter is using a different stance, or the pitcher looks tired. You get commentary like that all the time from some NFL announcers, but never in baseball. It's just "Pujols approaches the plate...blah blah blah about Pujols's career...blah blah blah....Strike one, curveball outside. Blah blah blah...Pujols will miss the All-Star game this year for the first time since 2001...blah blah blah...He takes the pitch for a ball. Blah blah blah, Barthmaier checks over to first...blah blah blah...He checks the runner at first again..."

BUT WHY are the players doing these things, announcers? It's just one random event after another.

is Ventura broadcasting? If so, for what team? I'd like to hear him.

See, I don't mind that. Of course, I'm a White Sox fan. If I'm watching the game by myself, I have another fan watching and cheering with the Hawk.

Well, as I was trying to convey (perhaps unsuccessfully) -- it's not really the 'homerism' that bothers me. He's the Sox PbP guy, so I have no problem with him wearing his rooting interests on his sleeve... I like Santo (in small doses).

It's the way he shows his homerism. Does he complement opposing players? Sure... but -- again from admittedly limited experience -- only seems to be in the context of 'So-and-So's a helluva player'.

When it comes to his job -- doing the PbP -- every non-turned Sox doubleplay seems to invariable be because the opposing baserunner came into second with a dirty slide.... every called 3rd strike on a Sox hitter is a bad call...

It just seems like there's a pattern of being unable to admit that sometimes the other guy made a better play, or heaven forbid -- might actually BE a better player.

You can root for your home team without becoming the midwest version of a Yankee/BoSox fan.

The main thing statheads seem to want, and consistently never get, is information about how the players are approaching the at-bat. Maybe the fielders are shifting, or the batter is using a different stance, or the pitcher looks tired. You get commentary like that all the time from some NFL announcers, but never in baseball. It's just "Pujols approaches the plate...blah blah blah about Pujols's career...blah blah blah....Strike one, curveball outside. Blah blah blah...Pujols will miss the All-Star game this year for the first time since 2001...blah blah blah...He takes the pitch for a ball. Blah blah blah, Barthmaier checks over to first...blah blah blah...He checks the runner at first again..."

Actually - at least from the defense shifts - this is one thing Harry used to excel at before his stroke.

He'd weave it nicely into the PbP, working it into the count... 2 and 2... OF shading him to pull...

Too many people remember Caray as the caricature he sorta became later in his career, but in his prime/until about the mid-80s.... I think he was one of the best.

Robin Ventura works college baseball games for ESPNU.

You can root for your home team without becoming the midwest version of a Yankee/BoSox fan.

Don't even start that

Ventura also fills in from time to time on White Sox broadcasts when someone's sick. He's pretty funny.

Well, as I was trying to convey (perhaps unsuccessfully) -- it's not really the 'homerism' that bothers me. He's the Sox PbP guy, so I have no problem with him wearing his rooting interests on his sleeve... I like Santo (in small doses).

It's the way he shows his homerism. Does he complement opposing players? Sure... but -- again from admittedly limited experience -- only seems to be in the context of 'So-and-So's a helluva player'.

When it comes to his job -- doing the PbP -- every non-turned Sox doubleplay seems to invariable be because the opposing baserunner came into second with a dirty slide.... every called 3rd strike on a Sox hitter is a bad call...

It just seems like there's a pattern of being unable to admit that sometimes the other guy made a better play, or heaven forbid -- might actually BE a better player.

You can root for your home team without becoming the midwest version of a Yankee/BoSox fan.

I was in complete agreement until your idiotic last sentence. Are there Yankee/Red Sox fans who fit that description? Sure. As well an equal number (proportionate to fan base, of course) from the other 28 teams. Blind homerism is not the exclusive property of East Coast fans.

If there was to be a stathead play-by-play guy, Mike Wilner could be it. He's the pre- and post-game host for Blue Jays radio broadcasts and he does some play-by-play work in spring training. During home games he partially serves as Alan Ashby's analyst during the innings when Ashby is handling the play-by-play duties. He's sabermetrically-inclined and routinely gives it to uninformed fans who call-in after the game. His play-by-play work is actually pretty good, although he probably doesn't have the typical voice for an announcer. I wouldn't mind hearing him do more play-by-play work, even though I'm quite content with Toronto's current radio team.

I was in complete agreement until your idiotic last sentence. Are there Yankee/Red Sox fans who fit that description? Sure. As well an equal number (proportionate to fan base, of course) from the other 28 teams. Blind homerism is not the exclusive property of East Coast fans.

Of course not. The Yankees and Red Sox just hate America more than the other 28 teams. Yes, even the Blue Jays.

Up until recently, the Jay radio staff was fantastic. Haven't listened recently though.

Wilner is solid, and Buck and Dan on TV - I'm convinced - were the best TV combo ever. Anywhere. Ever.

Oddly enough, the WSCR guys are saying how well Farmer and Stone are working together right now.

Not to slap a hornets' nest with a broomstick, but Hawk-n-DJ are quite dreadful. Essentially, the Sox TV crew are why I never liked the team. We got WGN in WV when I was a kid, but as soon as I realized that thered be no Cubs game, and the Sox were on, I'd switch to TBS. I don't care for the Braves. But the Sox (and this was the Hawk-n-Wimpy era) were unlistenable. Perhaps southsiders and diehards love the Sox crew. But that seems a bit myopic. Most folks I know outside of Chicago can't stand them. With the globalization of MLB, and the plethora of ways to watch a game, the White Sox are doing a major disservice to their appeal by keeping this crew intact. They simply don't appeal to most neutral fans. It is painful to listen to them call a game neither them were really worth a damn as players, yet they both constantly neglect on-field action to talk of their own days on the diamond. And it adds little to the experience. There may be worse crews, but you'd be hardpressed to find them. Which bringsd me to another annoyance: why can you select your broadcast crew when you stream a radio-broadcast, but not when you watch the telecast? I like to have that option.

Perhaps southsiders and diehards love the Sox crew. But that seems a bit myopic. Most folks I know outside of Chicago can't stand them.

Considering that the White Sox select their announcing crew based on the south siders and White Sox fans (you know, their audience), it's probably a pretty good choice.

Actually - at least from the defense shifts - this is one thing Harry used to excel at before his stroke.

He'd weave it nicely into the PbP, working it into the count... 2 and 2... OF shading him to pull...

Too many people remember Caray as the caricature he sorta became later in his career, but in his prime/until about the mid-80s.... I think he was one of the best.

I grew up as a baseball fan with Harry as my announcer - on radio, for the Cardinals. And I do remember that, as well - always hearing that the outfielders were around to pull, or bunched up the middle, or there was a gap in right center - and the infield was at double play depth, and so on.

The old time radio guys knew they had to paint a picture, had to bring alive what was happening. I've heard as a criticism of Vin Scully that he doesn't always switch off from radio mode to TV mode and winds up telling you things you can see - but I don't mind that, not at all.

Sorry, Vin Scully has has gotten a free pass, he is the most incredibly boring announcer in the MLB outside of his Eugene Kingsale fetish. Home markets hire what home fans want, why would the Yanks and the Phillies have a roving/random group of announcers? Living in LA has led me to understand that you won't be replaced no matter how inane or senile you may be (RE: Chick Hearn).
White Sox fanes are getting the punishment they deserve with the Hawk. Steve Stone and the Hawk would be hilarious, two pompous pieces of #### feeding off of each other.

Let's go mute button!!!

two pompous pieces of #### feeding off of each other.

"We eat pieces of #### like ourselves for breakfast."

I don't recall Caray ever going beyond "that play was ####" or that "at-bat was ####" into "that player is ####" or "that batter is ####".

Ask Bill Melton or Bart Johnson about whether Harry's attacks ever got personal.


Whatever you think about Jerry Reinsdorf, he tends to be loyal to a fault about employees he likes (see Krause, Jerry). The White Sox view Harrelson as a trademark voice of the franchise, and they're not letting him go. The Sox made that mistake once with Caray, who then became instrumental in changing the perception of Wrigley Field from a half-empty decrepit old park located in a questionable neighborhood to, as a Cub fan told me at a BBQ this weekend, "the essence of baseball." (The Cubs, in fact, have themselves had trouble replacing Caray -- from the statue in front of the ball park to the seventh-inning celebrity-flavor-of-the-month singalong, the Cubs continue to recycle the image of a broadcaster who died ten years ago.)

And (even as a Sox fan) I consider Pat Hughes as perhaps the best radio broadcaster in the nation today. Can you imagine anyone else carrying Ron Santo? It's like Hughes has a sixth sense on what Santo is trying to say:

Santo: "You know, Pat, some pitchers ...." (drifts off to dead air)
Hughes (after a millisecond pause: "Yup, Ronnie, when some pitchers get behind early in the count, they're afraid to throw their breaking ball."
Santo: "Yeah, Pat, they are. Here's a fax we got from Joe Smith and his family. They're from the Quad Cities ... and they're big Cub fans, Pat ..."