Horrible events, obviously. But this smells like new agey bullsh!t from parents who don't want to believe that we live in a pretty random and often horrible world in which people die suddenly before they've had a chance to live. The boy wasn't saying goodbye. He didn't know he was going to die. The boy had all kinds of unfinished business.

Tragedy is a regrettable but inevitable part of life. Trying to wish it away with post-hoc rationalization is a fool's game.

Guapo's Law:

Any BTF thread involving something bad happening to a kid will eventually be discovered by the parents of the kid, who will then attack the community for our insensitive comments.

Speaking of which, Luke Holko update

Kid shoulda rubbed some dirt on it.

Any BTF thread involving something bad happening to a kid will eventually be discovered by the parents of the kid, who will then attack the community for our insensitive comments.

If so, so be it. No sensitivty on my part in connection with Brian's death. I'm a father, such a thing represents an unimaginable horror to me, and because of it I have limitless sympathy for what the family has experienced as a result of their son's death.

But I don't have patience for what I feel to be the family using their son's alleged ESP or whatever they want to call it as some grand rationalization of their grief. For one thing, it's not true. For another, it serves to substitute in some sage stand-in for the real boy that was.

But I don't have patience for what I feel to be the family using their son's alleged ESP or whatever they want to call it as some grand rationalization of their grief. For one thing, it's not true. For another, it serves to substitute in some sage stand-in for the real boy that was.

WTF are you talking about?

Any BTF thread involving something bad happening to a kid will eventually be discovered by the parents of the kid, who will then attack the community for our insensitive comments.

That's happened before? Which threads?

That's happened before? Which threads?

The one involving the kid from post #3.

And Tyler Hooten, IIRC.

The one involving the kid from post #3.

But don't worry. A few brave Primates showed her. They weren't going to let some distraught aunt interfere with our snark.

I wish I were kidding.

Yeah, that was high-class.

WTF are you talking about?

According to the article, the parents believed their son had premonitions of his death, said his goodbyes and "had no unfinished business" in the world. I think that's b.s., and I think that they're reading a lot into otherwise innocuous behavior in an effort to make them feel better about his death. That's their prerogative, but I don't know that that's the most healthy way to deal with a tragedy like this.

According to the article, the parents believed their son had premonitions of his death, said his goodbyes and "had no unfinished business" in the world. I think that's b.s., and I think that they're reading a lot into otherwise innocuous behavior in an effort to make them feel better about his death. That's their prerogative, but I don't know that that's the most healthy way to deal with a tragedy like this.

How do you know it isn't healthy, and why do you care?

I think that's b.s., and I think that they're reading a lot into otherwise innocuous behavior in an effort to make them feel better about his death. That's their prerogative,

Since it is their prerogative, and they are the ones in such extreme pain, and if this maybe makes them feel a little better, perhaps you and everyone else could STFU about it, at least until -- and god willing this never happens -- you are in the same position.

I do not understand the pathological need to attack the coping methods of people who are in severe pain, just for the opportunity to parrot your own rationalistic world view. You convert no one, and you demonstrate a monumental insensitivity.

I think that's b.s.

This is going to sound worse than it should, though I feel like I can say it since Craig and I are friends of sort, but who gives a crap what you think? Alright, now that that's off my chest...

but I don't know that that's the most healthy way to deal with a tragedy like this.

That's fine, but that's not how you're coming across. Something about this seems to be making you actively angry. How is this any different from people who deal with their grief by being certain that their loved ones are "in a better place"? I'm not particularly religious, and if asked to choose I'd probably say that when we die, the lights are out forever. And I'm probably reacting to this differently because, unlike you, I don't have kids (though I do have nieces that age that I love dearly). But if it makes them feel better to believe what they do, what's the big deal? Do you think there's some reckoning down the line that they won't be prepared for because of their choice to deal with their sons death in this way?

Why the F should anyone STFU about it on BTF? We aren't here to convert anyone so I don't know why that needs to be the criteria in order to talk about it.

Everybody STFU about everything except what I want to talk about, unless your opinions are different than mine on those subjects, then STFU about that, too.

Everybody STFU about everything except what I want to talk about, unless your opinions are different than mine on those subjects, then STFU about that, too.

Congratulations, you've won the internets.

For everybody.

I want to know how we are supposed to know whats "true" or not. I have my suspicions, but sure as hell ain't sure. I don't think I even WANT to be sure. Whenever someone is too strident in declaring their belief system to be the only possible correct or true belief, I just see someone who is insecure about their beliefs.

I have to thank whoever it was that recommended George R.R. Martin in the last stupid thread that went elsewhere thread. I picked up Game of Thrones becuase of it. The first section was tough reading and I put it down and read several books in the meantime but once I picked it back up again the rest of the book was excellent. A thoroughly riveting story. When I went to the bookstore to buy the next book I actually ran into a couple of people that had a similar reaction to the start of the book. They both stopped reading only a couple of chapters into the book. I urged them to continue on.

I will say that Martin tends to be very descriptive and I found myself occasionally skimming paragraphs to get through the fluff but the basic story is very good.

One thing we should all know is that we don't know everything. Could the kid have sensed he was about to die? I doubt it but if it was my kid (I have 3) and they had done that I know I'd hold onto it as a way of trying to put some sense into something so senseless.

A bad way to cope would be to expect the kid to come back to life or to hunt down someone to sue over it. Trying to believe that your child was expecting it and had said their goodbyes would let you accept it a heck of a lot easier and I don't see anything wrong with the parents holding onto that.

All that has been said is fair: perhaps it is silly that I care. It's up here for public consumption on a message board. That's why I'm opining about it. I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. If even mentioning my view on it is illegitimate, so be it.

What animates me about this is that I think, in the aggregate, it's counterproductive to progress as a species for us to believe in stuff like this. If the folks in this article want to think this, great.

According to the article, the parents believed their son had premonitions of his death, said his goodbyes and "had no unfinished business" in the world. I think that's b.s., and I think that they're reading a lot into otherwise innocuous behavior in an effort to make them feel better about his death. That's their prerogative, but I don't know that that's the most healthy way to deal with a tragedy like this.

Several commenters at the original story have pointed out that the boy had a serious heart condition, which is not actually mentioned by his parents.

it's counterproductive to progress as a species for us to believe in stuff like this

Do you have the list of things that are productive to believe in? Controlled thermonuclear fusion? Chocolate ice cream? Love?

Perhaps you should publish this list, for the continued well-being of the species.

I have to thank whoever it was that recommended George R.R. Martin in the last stupid thread that went elsewhere thread. I picked up Game of Thrones becuase of it. The first section was tough reading and I put it down and read several books in the meantime but once I picked it back up again the rest of the book was excellent. A thoroughly riveting story. When I went to the bookstore to buy the next book I actually ran into a couple of people that had a similar reaction to the start of the book. They both stopped reading only a couple of chapters into the book. I urged them to continue on.

Don't read too fast and/or don't get too caught up in the idea of finishing the story. Martin is probably gonna kick it before he finishes the series. It's kinda the rule for epic fantasy series.

Several commenters at the original story have pointed out that the boy had a serious heart condition, which is not actually mentioned by his parents.

That's a rather egregious omission, no?

That said, I heard the piece this a.m. while driving to work & was quite taken. How sad it must be to be Craig Calcaterra. (Probably not as sad as it is to be gef the talking mongoose, of course, but still ...)

Obviously, the parents' reaction should've been "Our beautiful boy, who literally had everything in the world to live for, was taken from us for absolutely no f@cking reason. We hate you, God."

For those who didn't RTFA, the field where the kid died was named for him. It's a pretty nice field. My son got a big hit there in an all-star game once.

And it's been sixteen years. The parents are way past any "rationalization of their grief." I think Craig may be reading a bit too much into the simple phrase "had no unfinished business."

Perhaps you should publish this list, for the continued well-being of the species.

Perhaps I am pessimist, but I would settle for a list ensuring the continued survival of the species.

Don't read too fast and/or don't get too caught up in the idea of finishing the story. Martin is probably gonna kick it before he finishes the series. It's kinda the rule for epic fantasy series.


Besides Jordan who else has finished an epic fantasy? Weiss? Tolkien? I'm not really worried about him finishing it or not. The first book was a pretty darn good read and while I want more I don't need the whole entire story to actually be resolved.

The Taylor Hooton thread

Edited to add: Unfortunately, many of the posts didn't make it across the transition to the new software, so much is lost.