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Sunday, December 20, 2009
It’s anyone’s guess where Damon ends up now - Atlanta if the Braves can move Derek Lowe? The Giants? (talk about a buzz kill). But without the Yankees as leverage, he’s likely going to have to settle in the neighborhood of what they were prepared to offer him. How will he feel about that? Not sure. But you know what? Damon has only himself to blame. Here’s a guy who has made $97.2 million in his career and for an extra $6 million he sacrificed happiness and contentment and all the other perks associated with playing for a world champion team in New York. If he really wanted to stay a Yankee, he should’ve told Boras: “Go shop around for a three-year offer, but at the end of the day just make sure I’m still wearing pinstripes.” Instead, he drank the Boras Kool-Aid and came out looking like just another baseball mercenary. Happy trails, Johnny.
As for Bay, he, too, can thank his agent, in this case Joe Urbon, for pricing him out of Boston, a righty hitting-friendly ballpark/and virtual guarantee of the playoffs every year to, very likely, a pitcher’s paradise in Citi Field and a Mets team that, even with him, looks to be no better than a third-place club in the NL East. At least the Mets seem to realize that Urbon, after losing the Red Sox, has no more market for Bay, especially after the Seattle Mariners, who were bidders early on, acquired Milton Bradley on Friday to fill their last remaining need of an outfield bat.
Tripon
Posted: December 20, 2009 at 07:32 PM | 66 comment(s)
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Bay's agent probably failed to grasp how GM's are better understanding defensive value. Same could be said about Damon. His real value to the Yankees would have been as a DH, but his asking price didn't reflect that.
I also find it interesting that these older players are looking for extra years, and yet their agents claim that their ages aren't a real issue. Damon wanted three years, and wasn't even willing to admit that he might not be as valuable as he was in his last contract. Bizarre.
No one's saying that they won't find jobs, but if you've watched the FA market over the last few years prices tend to fall not rise. Abreau's offers didn't get better as time based, they got lower for less years. Damon's going to be lucky to get over 2 years at $7.5mil per from anyone else but the Yankees.
Talk about a short memory. Does this guy recall how the Yankees GOT Damon in the first place? He's always been "another baseball mercenary," if that's what we call looking out for one's own self-interests these days.
Just watch.
Yes, I'm sure the Yankees are going to offer $4-6M more than Damon offered to sign for and they already rejected.
Look, Damon saw what happened to A-Rod when Boras opted him out of his contract during the 2007 WS. Damon must have also seen what happened to Abreu after 2008.
That Damon was willing to play hardball (or allow Boras to play hardball) is his mistake as a client.
IN any case, what does seem strange to me about Damon is that they guy seems very happy go lucky, and he surely has enough money to tide him over for the rest of his natural life (and then some). Granted, Damon may have an expensive lifestyle and who knows how much he wants to retire with, but ways I see, Damon either (1) Really values the principle of not getting short changed monetarily over other concerns (perhaps Damon is pretty much happy wherever he plays); or (2) Being governed by the ins and out of a baseball lifestyle, to the point that it doesn't really matter where you play, because you are on the road half the time.
Not my way of looking at life, but then, I doubt very, very seriously that I will ever gross US$97MM (actually more than that, once endorsements are factored in).
Because they are the ones paying for your new Bentley.
Especially when the top free agent at your position also has Boras as HIS agent.
So he saw two different results, right? Maybe this is what you're saying and I'm misinterpreting and thinking you're lumping the Abreu situation with the A-Rod one. A-Rod ended up doing quite well for himself after all. Abreu, on the other hand, had to deal with quite a pay cut.
And with Abreu, who is not a Boras client, Damon should have seen that the Yankees are willing to let players go if they are asking for too much money AND that the current market can easily leave players hanging.... (arguably, you could say Matsui should have been another example to Damon. And Damon should have realized that his leverage was greatly diminished once the Yankees traded for Granderson).
Damon already left one world champion team for $12,000,000 over 4 years - not that I blame him - so why is the Daily News all hot and bothered that he won't take less than market now. I can see Johnny pondering this one - on the one hand is a whole lot of happiness and contentment playing for the Yankees and on the other hand is $6,000,000. Hmmmm, let me think, this one is tough, really close, I dunno, money v. playing for the Yankees. I'd rather read an argument that his market is actually $13-14mill for 2 years than one saying he is a chump if he goes for 19-20mill for 2 years somewhere else.
Seriously, as much as I don't like the Yankees, I have trouble believing that anyone in the organization thinks like this. I doubt that many Yankee fans buy this load of baloney either.
I dunno. You're asking Damon to not only notice a number of things, but then independently put all those things together, evaluate risks and rewards, honestly consider himself and his abilities, form conclusions, and proceed accordingly. Wouldn't it just be easier for him to read a 250-page leatherbound book about how great he is?
Out of the choices that JRVJ put out there in post #10, I guess that "(1) Really values the principle of not getting short changed monetarily over other concerns (perhaps Damon is pretty much happy wherever he plays);" is on the mark.
Same thing with Bay - his agent has already done his job and gotten him an offer that exceeds what the Red Sox were willing to pay. For $6,000,000 in what could be your last big contract, why not leave Boston for the Mets.
Are we agreed Boras is a greedy SOB? Are we agreed he's been a highly successful agent? Are we agreed that Boras' short- and long-term self-interest is served by getting his clients the best possible contract he can get them? If we believe all these things, we believe that Boras doesn't make a lot of mistakes in judging the market. Damon may regret playing for the Giants for 2/$20 instead of the Yanks at 2/$16 (or whatever) but it won't be because Boras mis-estimated what Damon could get.
Really the only disagreement around Boras is between those who believe he has some sort of Svengali-like control over his clients that forces them to do his bidding (in his self-interest, not theirs) and the rest of us who think he's an agent who works for his clients.
Gee, I wonder how earned that much. I also love these writers who are willing to sacrifice salary on a player's behalf because of what they perceive will make a player happier.
Wait, what? Am I supposed to think that ARod lost in any way on that contract? He's making the highest annual salary in baseball and his contract lasts until he's 42. He won--he got exactly what he wanted.
Yeah, how horrible it would be if Damon had to go to a team that won more games than the Braves last year.
I once again submit that people who get outraged about players who look to maximize their dollars don't think big enough. Sure, some dudes are plenty happy to take their salaries and live big. Other guys may have other goals -- anything from business ventures to large charitable causes to lots of kids -- and that extra six million bucks may be the difference between doing what they want and not.
Damon is obviously more amenable to going elsewhere, but I would not be at all surprised if Damon ends up coming back.
You would have been better off leaving this as a question, rather than trying to hint at an answer that has no basis in anything that Damon has actually said or implied.
I think Boras is very good at what he does. But I also think he has misjudged this year's market, especially for Damon. I have my doubts that any club is looking to give a three year contract to guy closer to 40 then 30.
Another factor in Damon's case is his home-road splits in 2009. Damon benefitted from the new Yankee Stadium more than any other player.
It wouldn't shock me if Damon winds up taking a two year contract to stay in New York, because it seems to me that both he and the Yankees are well aware of how well he's suited to Yankee Stadium. Any other team who would expect him to duplicate his 2009 numbers in any other venue may be setting themselves up for a big letdown, but it's also hard to believe that other GMs are unaware of those numbers. And the man is 36, not 26, and with little or no defensive value.
Re-signed with the Yankees for $300 million? And your point is...?
Because the answer is assumed by so many to yes, I was attempting to give possible arguments to the contrary. You can go ahead and read into that whatever you want.
Because the answer is assumed by so many to yes, I was attempting to give possible arguments to the contrary. You can go ahead and read into that whatever you want.
Ring it up to Yankee propaganda if you wish, but there were scores of interviews that Damon granted this year where time and time again he emphasized the looseness and relaxed atmosphere of the Yankee clubhouse. Whereas there is absolutely no evidence to back up any of your speculative points.
Doesn't mean that he might not sign elsewhere, but if he does I doubt very much it'll be because of any issues he had with either Girardi or his New York teammates. It'll be about money and length of contract issues.
1. The Yankees are not the only team in the market for an outfielder who are consistent competitors for the World Series. They won it last year, but over the last several years they don't have any more success at this than the Red Sox, Angels, or Cardinals, all of whom may be in need of his services.
2. I don't doubt that he enjoyed playing for the Yankees, but I've seen nothing to indicate that it was his favorite thing ever and gosh wouldn't it be such a tragedy if he had to stoop to playing elsewhere. Contrary to the base assumption of the article, playing for the Yankees is probably not an experience without drawbacks to match those of playing just about anywhere else. I don't doubt it's a better time than playing half your games in a dome or toiling away on a non-competitor or slaving under a manager you loathe, but that doesn't mean that it's the only good situation out there, or that a person might not like a change for any of a whole galaxy of reasons.
3. All other things being equal, the money will out.
"I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do. I know there are some teams interested, but the Yankees are the best organization I've been a part of so far in my career."
I don't think it's a stretch to say that he wanted to be in NY again.
I also think Boras has (a) been outrageously successful in his career; but (b) has misjudged Damon's market to Damon's detriment. Those concepts aren't mutually-exclusive. And I also think that Damon is done a tremendous disservice by having Holliday's agent act his agent this offseason. I suppose, however, that's between Damon and Boras.
Isn't there some sort of legal ethical responsibility on the part of Boras to not be in a conflict of interest situation like that, or in an appearance of one? Serious question; I know ethics and Boras don't mix but...
All that said, I really would like to hear Boras explain why having Holliday and Damon in the same offseason isn't a conflict. I mean, even if waivers and whatever are technically sufficient, how, practically speaking, is this not a huge problem? If I'm an agent trying to steal Damon away, I'd say "Hmm, tough break you didn't sign with the Yankees. But I guess it wouldn't help Holliday's market too much if there were one more team that didn't need a left fielder. . . "
I have no idea about this really, but there are agents that are not attorneys. It wouldn't make much sense if agents who were attorneys were subject to greater ethical responsibilities than agents who are not attorneys, considering that they are performing the same function. I have no idea quite how they accomplish this, but I imagine they could rather easily structure the representation as a non attorney-client relationship.
Damon offered to sign a 2 year deal for about 20 million? And they turned him down? Huh. Did not know that.
But thanks for coming across like a snotty 9th grader BTW Kyle. Cute.
The Yankees really won't sign Damon 10 million per for 2 years? He's a damn good player, unless
you fully believe last year's UZR is the true picture of his abilities in LF nowdays. Which I don't.
As a slightly below average LF with his type of pop and knack for doing it in that "new" ballpark, he's just fine
at the above deal. Especially to the NYY's, who have to worry about nickle and diming contracts less than any other team in any other American sport.
I'd give him a deal like that. He's a solid performer, a known commodity. As a Sox fan, I'd be happy to see
him walk away from NY, I can tell you that much.
you fully believe last year's UZR is the true picture of his abilities in LF nowdays. Which I don't.
He looked really bad out there too. I think they don't want to fill LF until they see what the price is on Holliday.
cmon
I'd be willing to bet that this would be really expensive for Damon at this point. Making a change that large would probably involve an army of attorneys and accountants (well, one of each, or maybe two, but highly paid ones just the same), and there's no guarantee that you get any real pecuniary advantage from it. Plus, he probably also has contracts with Boras for which he'd have to pay penalties to break. Aside from all that, Boras also has incentives to get Damon as much money as possible -- to set the market as high as possible for Holliday.
I practice in Illinois, where the conflict of interest language in our rules of professional responsibility reads in relevant part as follows:
I don't think it's applicable here (I assume Boras isn't repping these clients as their attorney), but it's an interesting issue to consider. If Boras represented Bay and Holliday as their attorneys, couldn't one of them argue that there's a problem under this provision?
Note also that there are some exceptions to the above conflict of interest (including client waiver with informed consent). I suspect that the clients who want Boras think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
Probably except for the reading part.
I think Boras works very well in a macro sense, but sometimes individual player signings are a bummer for his clients.
Yeah, at the time the whole situation was incredibly confusing to me. Still is I guess. A-Rod/Boras publicly insulted the Yankees(opting out without attempting to negotiate an extension first) in a way that cost them serious money(the subsidies from Texas.) Then he managed to get a 10 year 300 mill contract that was likely well above market and inexplicably it was painted by the media as the opposite of what it was, the Yankees caving and throwing buckets of money at A-Rod to keep him. And public opinion seemed to agree with the media's portrayal. I don't get it and I guess I never will.
My favorite part of that contract is the huge bonus for becoming the all time homerun leader. He was already at 518 HRs which means he needs to average 25 HRs per year of the contract to pass Bonds. Without the bonus he was already being paid 27.5 million per year. If he DIDN'T average 25 HRs per year for that much money then the contract would be horrifically bad. Throwing in 30 million as a reward for it was ludicrous.
No. He's their starting DH. I'm sure he's been told he's the starting DH.
You can't do that to free agents; promise them a job and then bench them for no reason. Especially not a team that relies on FAs as much as the Yankees.
If Damon were to sign with NY now, it would be to play LF. I doubt they'd give him more than 1/$7.5M,
I don't think anyone knows if there really is a hard budget limit this year (lower than last year's $205M payroll). If there is, I don't see them signing Damon at all.
If there isn't, I think Holliday will be their guy, unless the prices gets out of hand. Only if they don't sign Holliday can I see them coming back around to Damon.
So, if the market will bear $10M for Damon, I think he gets it before the Holliday situation is resolved. If he comes back to NY, it will be as a clear last resort for him (no two year deals available at a reasonable AAV) and a clear 2nd choice for the Yankees.
Maybe so, but the can bench Melky or Gardner, put Granderson in CF, and wait until Johnson gets injured.
(The Mets believed it was either sign Perez or nothing and they got played.)
More teams arguably saw Lowe/Perez as nearer substitutes for one another than Holliday and Damon are, unfortunately for Damon.
Damon, Bay and Holliday are expected to miss all of the MLB games player in December and January.
I remember Damon saying how much he loved playing in Kansas City and didn't want to get traded. I assume he loved playing in Oakland and didn't want to leave. I assume he loved playing in Boston and didn't to leave. I assume he loved playing in New York and didn't want to leave.
In season, surrounded by his teammates and playing ball, he falls in love with his team, regardless who it is at the time. Out of season, surrounded by the likes of Scott Boras and his "real life", he falls in love with the big contract. He isn't the smartest cookie in the jar.
HOLY MIXED METAPHOR, BATMAN!
But I agree.
But don't overlook the everyday fortune cookie. Those dudes can communicate in two different languages at the same time, while giving you tomorrow's lottery numbers.
I just can't believe that most players with even half of Damon's career earnings feel that they need an extra few million to get by. OTOH, they are other motivations to max their paycheck. Their natural competitiveness is one; salary is a way of keeping score. Their fellow players and the MLBPA also want the scale pushed ever higher, and players respond to that.
Why not? They did it with Lofton, and that doesn't seem to have hurt them any.
I doubt Lofton was guaranteed a job on a team with Bernie Williams already in CF. Matsui was already in LF and Sheffield signed before Lofton that offseason.
So, while Lofton probably expected to play more (and he should have played more except for Joe Torre being well into his "resting on my laurels/just happy to be here" phase, I'd be pretty surprised if he was told he'd be the starting CF.
Great point. Boras has more hits than misses. At this point, it would be a miss only if he has to take the Yankee 14 for 2 years after turning down something better elsewhere (has anyone made a better offer yet?). Or if the Yankees take the 14/2 off the table and Damon plays for less somewhere else.
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