As Dick Young once said, he knew baseball had changed when Tom Seaver thought it was cute that Richie Allen ran the bases while clapping and mugging after hitting a home run off him in 1971

Frank Thomas appears to be an intelligent human being.

The headline ought to read, "Thomas' restraint yields no story for beat writer on deadline"

The best reaction to grandstanding ever was in 1960 when Bill Veeck introduced his famous exploding scoreboard, which lit up the night with fireworks with every White Sox home run. The first time the Yankees visited Chicago that year, Ted Kluszewski hit a tape measure job off Whitey Ford, and the place went wild. The Sox swept the two game series and the Yanks left town in fourth place and sinking fast. This was coming off their worst year in the whole Stengel era, a year that the White Sox had won the pennant. So there was a lot of gloating in Chicago.

But the next time it was different. When New York returned in late June, they swept the Sox in four games, left them in fifth place, and every time the Yankees hit a home run, Mickey Mantle led his teammates onto the top steps of the dugout, each of them waving dime store sparklers and laughing at the hapless Chicago fans, who were fast returning to their traditional misery. It was the perfect squelch.

This story is actually somewhat disturbing to me since I had convinced myself that Frank Thomas would make an excellent pro wrestler after retiring from baseball. He has the body, the athleticism, he's accustomed to pain, he's surly, he's arrogant, and he's good at trash talking others. But if he adopts this sort of docile mentality, it may preclude him from every catching the eyes of the low-level bookers who could launch his new career.

So by those measures, what baseball players would make the best professional wrestlers?

Some candidates: Barry Bonds, Albert Belle, Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, Don Drysdale, Josh Gibson, Jose Canseco, Jason Giambi...

There are a lot of players who actually are trained in the grappling types of martial arts as a sort of hobby. Not that I can remember more than Dan Miceli and Rudy Seanez. I guess middle relievers have more downtime than a lot of players so they can engage in these other athletic pursuits that do not help their baseball ability.

As for "Thomas' restraint yields no story for beat writer on deadline", I think any time the writer actually gets a player to talk to him about what the player actually thinks, it's more interesting than no story at all. But still not extremely interesting.

Belle and Canseco would make one great tag team. Gibson's another good call. Also, don't sleep on Bagwell or Boomer Wells. Each has his own gimmick that might work. Bagwell's funny beard remains popular in wrestling, and many fat guys have achieved inordinate success.

The best reaction to grandstanding ever

and laughing at the hapless Chicago fans, who were fast returning to their traditional misery.

Every thing that happens in baseball can be responded to by a story about the Yankees being the best ever, and their fans being awesome, with an insult about the opponents fans.

...and every time the Yankees hit a home run, Mickey Mantle led his teammates onto the top steps of the dugout, each of them waving dime store sparklers and laughing at the hapless Chicago fans...

The other shoe of this pair might be heard the next time Joba yields a long ball to a Blue Jay. It almost certainly won't be as clever as Mantle's little show, but it won't necessarily be the respectful, professional trot that the Yankees would prefer.

Oh, and Kent Hrbek always talked about becoming a wrestler after he retired. (The topic came up a lot after his exhibition with Ron Gant the Human Ant during the 91 World Series.) His ring name was going to be T-Rex, but Kent was hurt and slovenly when he hung them up, and wrestling was moving on from fat guys like the Crusher to cut monsters like Hulk Hogan so he just went with the fishing and bowling thing.

Every thing that happens in baseball can be responded to by a story about the Yankees being the best ever, and their fans being awesome, with an insult about the opponents fans.

Every time a White Sox player hits a homer, the fans get to see fireworks.

Every time a Yankees player hits a homer, the fans get to hear Michael Kay act like a supercilious ass.

I know which one I prefer.

The other shoe of this pair might be heard the next time Joba yields a long ball to a Blue Jay. It almost certainly won't be as clever as Mantle's little show, but it won't necessarily be the respectful, professional trot that the Yankees would prefer.

And Giradi will call out the Jays manager and the next day Shelley will attempt to break someone's knee, prompting the Big Hurt to audition for his new career.

Good, but I wouldn't be crestfallen if Joba dialed it down a bit.

Each has his own gimmick that might work. Bagwell's funny beard remains popular in wrestling, and many fat guys have achieved inordinate success.

Gaylord Perry would make a decent heel, cheating his way to sucees. Of course, that might also be Bonds' gimmick, so there you go.

Gaylord Perry would make a decent heel, cheating his way to sucees. Of course, that might also be Bonds' gimmick, so there you go.

I wonder how soon the WWE will go with the steroid angle. I cna't imagine, given the acceleration of the schedule and the finite number of angles out there, that it will take more than a year or two.

I think the mandatory Yankee Stadium curtain calls after every home run, sacrifice fly, succesful bowel movement, etc. are much more obnoxious than anything Joba has done or ever will do after striking someone out.

Every time a Yankees player hits a homer, the fans get to hear Michael Kay act like a supercilious ass.

To be fair, he acts like that @ every opportunity.

The best reaction to grandstanding ever

and laughing at the hapless Chicago fans, who were fast returning to their traditional misery.

Every thing that happens in baseball can be responded to by a story about the Yankees being the best ever, and their fans being awesome, with an insult about the opponents fans.

Not quite. There's still the matter of the Diamondbacks and the Marlins.

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...and every time the Yankees hit a home run, Mickey Mantle led his teammates onto the top steps of the dugout, each of them waving dime store sparklers and laughing at the hapless Chicago fans...

The other shoe of this pair might be heard the next time Joba yields a long ball to a Blue Jay. It almost certainly won't be as clever as Mantle's little show, but it won't necessarily be the respectful, professional trot that the Yankees would prefer.

And of course Joba's asking for it, just like Veeck did. Not that there's anything wrong with any of this (Dizzy Dean's my favorite player ever, and Veeck's my favorite owner), but it CAN come back to bite you.

Moral of the story for Joba: Just keep up what you've been doing for another 15-20 years, and they'll all treat you like Frank Thomas.

if Manny can admire every home run like he just painted the Sistine Chapel, and everyone responds with an amused shrug, I say let Joba do a little fist pumpage. Its worked for Francisco Rodriguez, hasn't it?

I wonder how soon the WWE will go with the steroid angle. I cna't imagine, given the acceleration of the schedule and the finite number of angles out there, that it will take more than a year or two.

I can't imagine they will. Between Vince's trial and the Benoit thing, I'd be shocked if they touched it with a ten-foot pole.

Now whathisname's company down in...Orlando? Tampa? Somewhere like that. I can see them doing one, if only to try and stick it to Vince.

if Manny can admire every home run like he just painted the Sistine Chapel, and everyone responds with an amused shrug, I say let Joba do a little fist pumpage. Its worked for Francisco Rodriguez, hasn't it?

Point taken about Manny's showboating - it's getting pretty ridiculous, even for him. However, Manny is one of the best hitters of his generation with a HOF career, and Joba is a rookie relief pitcher. It's a little different.

However, Manny is one of the best hitters of his generation with a HOF career, and Joba is a rookie relief pitcher. It's a little different.

Yeah, veterans should know better.

RE: Baseball players who would make great pro wrestlers

I'd submit this guy, even at age 56: http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/otted01.shtml

see Aug. 12, 1977, sixth inning of Game 2 of a Pirates-Mets doubleheader. One of my most terrifying baseball memories.

I too, would like Joba to dial it down some. But before Thomas ever got to the bigs, Eck was doing it.

Forget Joba, Ross Ohlendorf is the future...

No, not really, but he looked good last night.

Can we really call Manny a veteran, at least with any true accuracy? Being a veteran sort of implies the possession of an institutuional memory. Manny can't remember what he ate for breakfast.

I think Manny catches a bum rap with this kind of thing. If he doesn't remember what he ate for breakfast, it's because he chooses not to remember.

Yeah, veterans should know better.

Ah, if only that were true. It's almost universally accepted that once you've been around just about any organization for a while, you can do pretty much do what you want, while the new guys get admonished for doing the same stuff. It's pretty obnoxious when you're the young guy (me).

Manny can't remember what he ate for breakfast.

Well, if you ever do find out what it is, kindly send a few truckloads to Damon and Matsui.

Manny hits home run, stands and watches it sail out: Well, that's a little annoying, but it's Manny.
Joba strikes someone out, pumps fist: *shrug* Hey, he just did his (very difficult) job well.

I think that you should do whatever you want and then people should think whatever they want about it.

Then when they beat you, they can act better.

Living well is the best revenge.

But before Thomas ever got to the bigs, Eck was doing it.

Joaquin Andujar was doing it also, and it ticked off a lot of opponents.

Gotta say, Boots, this struck me as odd:

Every time a White Sox player hits a homer, the fans get to see fireworks.

Every time a Yankees player hits a homer, the fans get to hear Michael Kay act like a supercilious ass.

I know which one I prefer.

So you watch Sox telecasts on mute too...?

I think the mandatory Yankee Stadium curtain calls after every home run, sacrifice fly, succesful bowel movement, etc. are much more obnoxious than anything Joba has done or ever will do after striking someone out.

YES
YES
YES
I HATE THE ####### CURTAIN CALLS. I HATE THEM HATE THEM.
So ####### arrogant. Exactly what we used to rip on the '86 Mets for doing.

I have no problem with Joba. He's not pointing in anyone's face. It's a spontaneous outburst of relief and excitement after success in a big moment.

The curtain calls are an embarrassment. They are staged, they interrupt the game, and they do seem to take place everytime a Yankee successfully ties his shoes. Kay said Halladay yelled at Melky for coming out in the middle of the next at bat. Good for Roy.

And I mostly think players are way too ####### sensitive about this type of ####. What does it matter to you if someone's giving his teammate a secret handshake, or slapping hands with fans, or showing excitement after a big play, or whatever. But oh my god, the curtain calls drive me nuts.

What is the problem with curtain calls? Apreciation of a player or play is a bad thing?

Clap your hands. There, you've appreciated it.

Guys popping out of the dugout and doffing their caps, setting off a new round of applause in the middle of a pitch, just because they hit a 315-foot pop fly in the 4th inning, is obnoxious.

I think you are overstating curtain calls.

I know that in St Louis you get a curtain call for a first major league hit (or at least an attempt is given, it's tough if you are on base and play is going---sorry Rico) obviously important homeruns, or even situations where a player faced recent personal adversity and have a good performance. Or just a favorite player who has been struggling that broke through.

St Louis gets blasted for giving too many, and I think that is unfair, occasionally we give a curtain call that is a little ridiculous but most of the time it's a true appreciation for the play and story.

What is the problem with curtain calls? Apreciation of a player or play is a bad thing?

From Jeff Blair's article today on the same Thomas/Joba subject:

Even after just one game, it was hard not to notice there's something different about the 2008 Yankees, and it must surely come from the influence of manager Joe Girardi. The Yankees have long been a kind of corporate team on the field, despite the star quality of their players. But they have more of a spring in their step this year — it was detectable in the Grapefruit League — and it's clear Girardi isn't worried about any adverse reaction from opposing teams.

When Melky Cabera hit his home run against Roy Halladay in the sixth inning on Tuesday, he answered the crowd's call for a curtain call by jumping out of the dugout while Halladay was in mid-windup. Most unprofessional. Most un-Yankee-like. But it wasn't just Halladay caught off guard. Normally, a batter will step out of the box if he sees his teammate ready to take a curtain call, as a sign to the pitcher to not begin his windup. But Johnny Damon didn't move.

I'd flipped the channel briefly and missed the moment, but it's been remarked a few times that Halladay was visually showing his displeasure while the event was happening. It being the 315ft home run.

Normally, a batter will step out of the box if he sees his teammate ready to take a curtain call, as a sign to the pitcher to not begin his windup. But Johnny Damon didn't move.

I don't think this is true, although I will concede I don't spend a lot of time tracking curtin calls. But it seems unlikely. It also seems like something a RHB (who would be facing the Yankee dugout) could do more easily than a left-hander like Damon.

Manny can't remember what he ate for breakfast.

Well, if you ever do find out what it is, kindly send a few truckloads to Damon and Matsui.

Ah, plausible deniability.

I don't think this is true, although I will concede I don't spend a lot of time tracking curtin calls. But it seems unlikely. It also seems like something a RHB (who would be facing the Yankee dugout) could do more easily than a left-hander like Damon.

I don't remember seeing this either; I will say, however, that Melky shouldn't have gone out mid-pitch - not only is it unfair to the pitcher, its unfair to his own teammate batting. And I'm okay with Halladay getting pissed - the good thing is he took it out on the mound (IIRC, he struck out Damon on three pitches, and did the same to Melky the next time he came up)

I thought that too, about Damon being a lefty hitter, but I don't know about the mechanics of how they normally execute curtain calls. I'd sort of have issue with the fact that it barely scrapped the wall for a homerun. But...

Point taken about Manny's showboating - it's getting pretty ridiculous, even for him.

You've got it all wrong. Manny is not showboating.

He's just trying to remember which direction he's supposed to run.

I just wish Joba would speed it up on the mound. The game the other night was moving along at a crisp pace between Wang and Halladay and Joba came in and ground it to a halt. Get the ball. Throw the ball.

Frank understands something that some other vets don't...

Getting excited about striking you out is a compliment! No pitcher does celebratory fist pumps after striking out Rod Barajas, you know?

It's a little hard to be appreciative of such compliments when you just struck out.

Getting excited about striking you out is a compliment! No pitcher does celebratory fist pumps after striking out Rod Barajas, you know?

nah, Joba was doing it last year too, even to the Rod Barajases (Barajasi?) of the world. Only when it was the third out, of course.

Getting excited about striking you out is a compliment! No pitcher does celebratory fist pumps after striking out Rod Barajas, you know?

Unfortunately (I'm a Red Sox fan), Papelbon craps his pants after just about every out. Reminds me of a college softball game where they literally gather around the mound after every strikeout to celebrate (maybe this is just at LSU- I thankfully haven't seen too many college softball games).

Every time a White Sox player hits a homer, the fans get to see fireworks.

They also get to sing.

I love to watch players showboating, but even if I didn't, I don't think Joba is really at all close to the line with the fist pump. I'm a little upset about Reyes toning down the dances. It makes the game a little more entertaining.

If he's your guy, you get a little more pumped up. Otherwise, you love to hate the guy, and there's no feeling better than when you stuff it in his face the next time around.

"I HATE THE ####### CURTAIN CALLS. I HATE THEM HATE THEM.
So ####### arrogant. Exactly what we used to rip on the '86 Mets for doing."

Okay, I have heard the '86 Mets blamed for curtain calls too many times. The 1st team I remember doing curtain calls was the '83 White Sox ("Winning Ugly"), and at the time I recall people saying that whole schtick had started in LA.

And as Rusty said, getting excited about winning the encounter shows that you've ACHIEVED something. I'd be more pissed if the guy just stood there like "Well, of course I struck him out. He's just crap." Though of course he'd be correct.