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Tuesday, November 06, 2007

N.Y. Daily News: Jorge Posada wants 4-year deal; waits on Yanks, Mets

Or as Lombardi points out..."the last time the Yankees had a 40-year old catch a game for them was 1904 (Deacon McGuire).”

Brian Cashman’s top priority of getting Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera re-signed remains the same, but at least one of those Yankee stalwarts isn’t inclined to make it that easy on the Bombers.

Posada appears ready to make the Yankees work for his services, according to sources familiar with the discussions, as the five-time All-Star catcher plans to wait until he can hear offers from other teams before making a decision.

...The biggest sticking point for Posada may wind up being the length of a deal, as the 36-year-old is seeking a four-year pact, according to sources, who said the Yankees have internally discussed an offer of three years and $40 million. With the Mets expected to be one of the teams in the bidding, Posada plans to see what his market value is, though the Yankees likely will do whatever they must in order to retain the popular 11-year veteran.

Repoz Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:42 AM | 45 comment(s)
Related News: General, NY Mets, NY Yankees

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1. seeking a clever screen name since 1999 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:57 AM (#2606390)

the last time the Yankees had a 40-year old catch a game for them was 1904

And if Posada signs for four years, he will be 40 for about the last two months of the contract. Give him what he wants. Giambi is gone after 2008; Posada can transition to 1B/DH starting in 2009.

2. 洋基's Biggest Fan! Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:57 AM (#2606391)

The length of the contract should be less of a hurdle for the Yankees. The DH is an ideal soft landing for a 40 year old part-time catcher. There will not be very many Yankees fans who'll be outraged about over paying Jorge Posada for two or three years.

3. 1k5v3L Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:57 AM (#2606392)

Rosenthal speculates the Mets could offer Posada a 5 year, $70m deal

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7413882

The Mets really should go all out and get A-rod, Posada, and Pettitte.

4. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 06, 2007 at 10:59 AM (#2606394)

Hey, maybe Posada continues to defy the odds, I remember when he signed his last contract a lot of people were critical of how the last year or two would go. Of course, this was during my Rob Neyer/ESPN/msgnetworks.com days so I'm not sure what the reaction was like over here.

5. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:00 AM (#2606397)

Frankly, I think the Yankees will retain Posada, Mariano and Pettitte, unless the latter decides to retire.

I will say, though, that if Cashman thought that 2008 was going to be the final year with his older players (and that 2009 was going to be when he was going to start seriously remaking the Yankees), well, things started a lot earlier than he planned.... (first, he has to bring up Hughes, Joba and Kennedy, and now he loses A-Rod).

6. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:03 AM (#2606407)

Give him what you want. This is the Yankees, there is no ####### reason to be cheap with their top talent, that is not how you run an organization.

worst case scenario, they have an expensive backup catcher at the end of the deal.

7. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:04 AM (#2606409)

get this done, then go sign ARod.

8. Fat Al Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:04 AM (#2606410)

Give him what you want. This is the Yankees, there is no ####### reason to be cheap with their top talent, that is not how you run an organization.

Agree. 5/70 is crazy talk though.

9. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:05 AM (#2606412)

Yeah, just get it done. A 4 year deal gives Posada a pretty decent shot at getting to the HOF.

10. KronicFatigue Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:10 AM (#2606430)

3/40 would have been good. 4/51 is acceptable b/c he's a "true yankee". 5 years? forget it.

11. JPWF13 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:13 AM (#2606437)

A 4 year deal gives Posada a pretty decent shot at getting to the HOF.

The length of the deal is irrelevant, Posada has to keep hitting, if he can keep his OPS+ over 120 he'll keep playing whether its a 4 year deal or a series of one year deals

If he starts hitting like Brad Ausmus he either won't play or he will play but it won't help his chances- he's at 218 HR and 861 RBIs, he really needs 300-1000, 1000 will be easy, 300 won't be, he's got to keep hitting

12. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:20 AM (#2606449)

A 5 year deal is not horrible if its not automatic (i.e., if it vests due to Posada reaching certain threshholds in year 3 or 4).

13. AROM Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:20 AM (#2606450)

Posada can transition to 1B/DH starting in 2009.

14. AROM Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:23 AM (#2606457)

Yankees can make Martinez their catcher of the future after the 2010 season. So 3 years would be ideal, but not a big deal to have a one year overlap in there. Give Jorge his 4.

15. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:24 AM (#2606459)

Assuming Posada hits 270/380/450 or so, 13 million is way too much to pay an old 1b/dh. His value to the Yankees is as a catcher. If they don't plan on using him as a catcher beyond the first year, its time to say goodbye.

I would imagine 2 years at catcher is the plan. third year split time at C, and if he gets a fourth year, split time there are well, with a few fewer starts.

Yankees can afford a 13 million dollar platoon

16. robinred Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:30 AM (#2606475)

Varitek got 4, right? I would guess that entered into Posada's thinking, although of course Varitek is a little younger.

17. jmurph Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:34 AM (#2606488)

Varitek got 4, right? I would guess that entered into Posada's thinking, although of course Varitek is a little younger.

18. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:34 AM (#2606490)

Varitek got 4, right? I would guess that entered into Posada's thinking, although of course Varitek is a little younger.

But Posada is a lot better.

19. seeking a clever screen name since 1999 Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:35 AM (#2606491)

Assuming Posada hits 270/380/450 or so, 13 million is way too much to pay an old 1b/dh.

I was talking about a gradual transition. I'd be perfectly happy to overpay and/or add an extra year in order to keep his value as a catcher in the front years. I could live with games caught totals of 130, 110, 80 and 40 over a four year contract.

20. Declino DeShields Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:37 AM (#2606496)

5/70 is crazy talk though

No, that's my brother, Crazy Talk.

Seriously, how backloaded would Posada's 5/70 be? Maybe in five years, $14-15M for a two-thirds-regular first baseman won't seem quite so terrible, such that the Mets could dump him. I really don't know.

I agree with the people who say the Yankees should simply pay him. Not that I really care about the Yankees' best interests -- quite the opposite, really -- but Posada just seems right as a lifelong Yankee. There's something special about that distinction, and I've always respected the guy.

21. Stan Papi Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:42 AM (#2606513)

Tek was younger and missed a lot of time due to agents and injuries. Posada may be a better hitter, but I have a hard time seeing him catching more than 50 games a season after 2 more years. He has gotten better defensively (despite his fear of the collision...), but he still is OLD. I am sure you won't find multiple pitchers refusing to let Tek be their catcher like with Posada as well.
If they want a switch-hitting DH for the ballpark, he might be a fit, but I would offer 3 years and leave it at that.

22. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:47 AM (#2606522)

I am sure you won't find multiple pitchers refusing to let Tek be their catcher like with Posada as well.

What?

23. The Essex Snead Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:47 AM (#2606524)

You know, that's actually going to be an interesting problem after this year. Varitek will be a free agent, as far as I know, and his bat really won't justify a multi year deal at over 10 million per, will it? But that would be a huge PR hit if they let him walk.

The biggest problem for Boston re: Varitek isn't the potential PR ding, but finding a replacement - one would hope Kottaras would improve in his 2nd AAA season, but if he doesn't, the potential FA list doesn't look too great (Johnny Estrada & a 35-yo I-Rod are the highlights), and I'm not sure the trade market is going to be very helpful. JV could demand another 4/40ish deal & get it with ease.

24. aleskel Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:48 AM (#2606528)

I am sure you won't find multiple pitchers refusing to let Tek be their catcher like with Posada as well.

Huh? Only Johnson, a world-renowned prick, wanted a personal backup catcher, and that was just for one year.

25. Vogon Poet Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:49 AM (#2606531)

I get a Marcel projection for Posada of .289/.375/.477 in 549 PA. That puts him about 1.5 wins above average. +1 win for being a catcher, he's worth 2.5 WAA and 4.5 WAR.

Using Tango's salary scale (adding 10% since it's from last offseason) that makes him worth 3/57 or 4/75. A steeper decline (losing 1 win per year instead of 0.5) makes it 3/50 or 4/59.

26. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:49 AM (#2606532)

In fact, back when Girardi and Posada were splitting time, Posada was Clemens personal catcher.

I wonder what the Girardi/Pettitte relationship was like. In 96, Leyritz was Andy's personal catcher.

27. Stan Papi Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:54 AM (#2606542)

Mussina hates Posada. There was one other I can't remember. Don't shoot the messenger.

28. aleskel Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:54 AM (#2606545)

I wonder what the Girardi/Pettitte relationship was like

Pettitte is very dependent on his catcher, apparently - he needs someone to call the game for him, unlike, say, Mussina, who calls the game for himself. Which is part of the reason he's never really seemed to want to move around through free agency, just because he has no idea what kind of catcher he'll get. As I've said in the Pettitte thread, he's an odd bird.

29. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:55 AM (#2606547)

Mussina hates Posada. There was one other I can't remember. Don't shoot the messenger.

source?

30. aleskel Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:56 AM (#2606548)

Mussina hates Posada.

Mussina is generally a misanthropic sort, I think. I've never heard of him having a problem with Posada specifically.

31. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 06, 2007 at 11:59 AM (#2606556)

Yeah, I'm unaware of Mussina hating Posada. Posada once got into a fight with El Duque in Orlando and Randy Johnson wanted not-Posada to catch him, but that's about all I can remember.

32. Vogon Poet Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:01 PM (#2606558)

Posada has caught more games from Mussina than any other catcher. I find it hard to believe that would happen if Mussina didn't trust him.

33. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:01 PM (#2606561)

el Duque still threw to him though. I think they were just sort of fiery.

They used to get in screaming matches on the mound.

Is Duque a FA? I would love to sign him. I love watching that guy, and I bet he could throw until he is 50 out of the pen.

34. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:05 PM (#2606574)

sj, I agree re: El Duque and Posada's thing not being serious. I was just trying to think of SOMETHING that could even slightly substantiate the claim that pitchers refuse to let Posada be their personal catcher.

35. MSI Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:33 PM (#2606647)

Question: What do the Mets do when they realize that Posada is just using them as a bargaining chip to get a better contract? Will they sign Lo Duca, or Torrealba...

36. HowardMegdal Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:46 PM (#2606670)

Question: What do the Mets do when they realize that Posada is just using them as a bargaining chip to get a better contract? Will they sign Lo Duca, or Torrealba...

I hope Torrealba- though they may do the same thing they did when Pedro used them as a bargaining chip in 2004.

37. The District Attorney Posted: November 06, 2007 at 12:55 PM (#2606681)

38. HowardMegdal Posted: November 06, 2007 at 01:05 PM (#2606693)

I'd hope Castro. He should be significantly cheaper, because he's never been a starter. And although that same fact also means that he might not really be as good as he's looked in limited time, I'll take my chances. He could just as easily live up to expectations, and anyway I'm beyond sick of Lo Duca.

I'd love if the Mets got Posada and would be willing to "overpay" in terms of dollars, but five years is wacky.

I'm about the biggest Castro fan there is, but relying on a guy with an arthritic back to play 120-140 games at catcher strikes me as a bad, bad idea. I'd bring in Castro and Torrealba, hoping for a 120-40 split Castro's way, prepared for as much as a 120-40 split Torrealba's way-that is a pairing with a florr offensively equal to Lo Duca, and better defensively, with much higher upside. And in total, it would probably cost less than Posada.

But Posada is a nice addition, to be sure. 5 years is tough, but with a reachable incentive based on PT, I think the upside for 08-09 is too good to pass up- and it may take that fifth year to make it happen.

39. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:11 PM (#2606797)

I'd rather the Mets signed Posada to a 5-year deal than sign A-Rod to the monstrous contract that it will take to get him. As long as they realize that it is very likely that he'll likely be a very well compensated back-up by the end of the contract. Hopefully, Francisco Pena or someone else is ready to step up by then.

40. Kyle S Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:31 PM (#2606838)

Russ - what about the guy who was crushing the ball in the Australian league? didn't you used to watch his boxscores? Or was that someone else?

41. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:38 PM (#2606851)

Russ - what about the guy who was crushing the ball in the Australian league? didn't you used to watch his boxscores? Or was that someone else?

First, don't call me by my slave name! My name is Russlan. Just kidding.

Rasky was the guy who was very excited about that Met prospect but he is excited about every Met prospect. He and I were (and still are) pretty high on Jesus Flores when he was a Met prospect. I thought he was very likely to have a good career as a starting catcher then and nothing I have seen so far has made me change my mind although he needs to do better against righties.

42. Boots Day Posted: November 06, 2007 at 02:47 PM (#2606865)

The Denver Post today says the Rockies are very interested in bringing back Torrealba to share time with Iannetta next year. While I hope they give the job outright to Iannetta, I still like Torrealba. Torrealba is one of those guys whose numbers don't look so pretty at the end of the year, but he gets his share of big hits, seems very well-liked by the pitching staff, and just generally seems like a good guy to have on the team. I'll miss him if he's gone.

43. Kyle S Posted: November 06, 2007 at 05:20 PM (#2607067)

Oh yeah, it was raskolnikov. What is the Aussie guy's name?

44. Kyle S Posted: November 06, 2007 at 05:22 PM (#2607070)

Never mind, I found him. Patrick Maat. Here's what bbref says:

Height: 6'4", Weight: 260 lbs

Pretty hefty for a 19 year old! He hit 190/350/240 in rookie ball this year, with a good eye and absolutely nothing else going for him. He's still young, but he's not quite ready for prime time, I don't think...

45. Bicycle RepairMan Posted: November 06, 2007 at 05:27 PM (#2607071)

I thought the Mets catcher of the future was Fransisco Pena. Ahh, prospects

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Tuesday, November 06, 2007

N.Y. Daily News: Jorge Posada wants 4-year deal; waits on Yanks, Mets

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