Apparently only Joe Torre is a failure when he does not win the World Series every year. The new manager may not even have to make the playoffs because the team is in 'transition'. Who knew?

This edict presumably will extend to Randy Levine's statement that managers now require incentives in his contract. Somehow I don't think that will be applied to the new manager.

It has really become the amateur hour in Tampa. Yankee fans can only hope Brian Cashman regains control quickly.

I don't really care one way or the other about how Torre was handled, I thought it was fine. However, in terms of on the field talent deployment, I've loved everything Hank has had to say. Thus far he's signed on for the Joba in the rotation plan, emphasized that fans should have patience with next year's team, and implictly implied that a rotation with Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain is a distinct possibility. Quite frankly, I'm not getting the "oh noez, teh world is over" feeling that kevin and others seem to imply I shuold be getting.

Apparently only Joe Torre is a failure when he does not win the World Series every year. The new manager may not even have to make the playoffs because the team is in 'transition'. Who knew?

Is the new manager going to be paid $7.5 million? Is he going to be paid $5 million and incentives? It's fine if you think that Torre was the best man for the job and the Yankees made a big mistake in not paying whatever it took to keep him. But that doesn't make Hank Steinbrenner a hypocrite for saying what he did in the quoted passage.

I think it's abundantly clear that the people running the Yankees now do not want to operate under the burden of expecting to win it all every year. Reducing the manager's salary, whether it was Joe Torre or someone else, was a step towards lowering those expectations.

Again, you may think that's a bad move, but it's not a double standard.

Is Hank kevin even aware of (t)his roster?

All players 32 or older:

Posada
Giambi
Jeter
A-Rod
Matsui
Damon
Abreu
Minky
Cairo
Molina
Mussina
Clemens
Petitte
Rivera
Vizcaino
Myers
Villone

That's 17 11 players out of 25. 17 11. Count 'em.

Give it time, NJASDJDH. give it time.

He's right. We should worried that the Yankees are going to have to replace 17 players. Including Derek Jeter. And five others who are under the Yankees control for 2008. And two guys who haven't been on the team since early August. CAN YOU FEEL THE PANIC?!?!?!?!!!!111

Why even bother trying, it's just kevin being kevin.

We want to win the World Series every year, but we’re not stupid enough to think we can do it every year.

I think he just called his dad stupid.

the Yankees have exactly ZERO position players who the Yankees are in a position to bring up next year. Z-E-R-O.

So how exactly how are they going to get younger?

Gee, I don't know. They certainly couldn't play Betemit at first base instead of Mientkiewicz. And there certainly aren't such things as trades or free agent signings. And gosh, isn't there a part of the game that doesn't involve position players. What's that called again...oh, pitching!

Honestly, your team is in the World Series and the best thing you have to discuss is gloating over of a theortical Yankee decline? Weak.

I should say first I think that Yankees are going to be just fine. Kevin predicting the end of time is one of those things where, yeah, eventually he'll be right, but you'll make no money betting with him against the $200M machine.

The thing about Hank, though, is that his pronouncements on the young players have followed the Cashman line, but the young players aren't the difference between making and missing the postseason. They don't project ot be particularly great next year - it's the right thing for the long run to pitch Kennedy, but counting on any more than 150 IP, 4.50 ERA, seems pretty foolish.

What will make the difference is re-signing all of Rivera, Posada, and ARod. (It's possible they could do without Rivera, but I don't think it would be a good idea.) The other two, though, will cost the Yankees several wins apiece unless they lock them up. If he acts like as big a jackass in negotiations with star players as he did in negotiations with Torre, the Yankees could easily miss the playoffs next year.

I don't expect this to happen - Cashman surely knows how important the veterans are, and the Yankees have incredible large piles of money. But Hank's ill-advised comments about Rodriguez "good-bye!" give me a little bit of hope.

And they've been replaced by whom exactly, SG?

Where did you get that roster Kevin? Myers was DFA'd in August, replaced by Joba, IIRC. Cairo finished the year in the national league, essentially replaced by Betemit.

I mean, do a little homework.

RB, the Yankees have exactly ZERO position players who the Yankees are in a position to bring up next year. Z-E-R-O.

Well, they do have Wilson Betemit and Shelley Duncan, 25 and 27 respectively who could play important roles off the bench or at first base. They can probably work in Alberto Gonzalez as a utility infielder and Brett Gardner as a fifth OF if needs warrant it.

it's the right thing for the long run to pitch Kennedy, but counting on any more than 150 IP, 4.50 ERA, seems pretty foolish.


ERA seems about right (I've got him projected at 4.36 but I wouldn't be shocked to see him closer to 5.00) but Kennedy did throw 165 innings last year. I don't see why he couldn't build up to 180 or so. I think Joba and Hughes will both be restricted to 150-160 though.

The other two, though, will cost the Yankees several wins apiece unless they lock them up.

Yeah, probably 8-10 wins between the two of them. I want them to keep Rivera for sentimental reasons, even if they have to overpay him for his actual field worth.

Good luck with those guys, SG.

I agree. They've got big shoes to fill in Minky and Miggy.

Who are they going to trade?

Some of the dozens of pitchers they've got on the farm?

Who are they going to trade? Who do they have locked up who has trade value? Jeter? You think the other teams are just going to say "Oh, sure. Here. Take our most promising young players. We'll be happy to take that old guy you have who sucks on defense and makes a gazillion dollars in return."

If Derek Jeter went on the market, there are many, many teams call to inquire. But he isn't on the market, so this is silly.

I thought you wanted to get younger?

I think we all want to get younger. For the Yankees, I don't particularly care if they get younger. I just want them to get better.

Cano's not a cornerstone? A +10 defender who's probably good for a line of .310/.340/.490? Really?

The very fact that Melky's not a cornerstone means he can be traded BTW.

“We want to win the World Series every year, but we’re not stupid enough to think we can do it every year.

To: Donnie Baseball
From: The Understanding Guys Upstairs

Two out of every three will be just fine.

Regards,
Hank and Randy

Yes, that is exactly what it is called. A 94 Win shitwagon.

94 Win Shitwagon.

Sounds like a C&W;hit in the making. Maybe a comeback number for Garth Brooks.

Compared to the Red Sox, they're a shitwagon. And that's who they'll have to beat next year.

Right, I forgot Red Sox don't age.

If he's talking about getting younger, then you'll just have to reconcile yourself to a 2008 where the Yankees are non-contenders.

kevin, you're getting way too giddy about the blather coming from Hank. Wait until the Yanks make a move or two before buying a pair of binoculars to watch the Yankees ship sink from the comfort of the cliff. They still have lots of money and lots of pitching prospects and most likely A-Rod coming back as well as Posada and Rivera. That's a formidable foundation. If and when Hank starts ####### things up for real, we'll all be here with you for one giant orgy of schadenfreude. Meanwhile, revel in the glory of the ass whuppin your boys put on the Children of God last night.

If you don't consider Cano much of a cornerstone, I don't see how you consider Pedroia one.

Now, now, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...

Not this again. SG, hit my man kevin with the numbers...

Right, I forgot Red Sox don't age.

naw we just kick 'em to the curb when they get too old. see: pedro, millar, nixon, mueller, etc. exceptions for: fearless captains.

Is this the Josh Beckett who will pitch for the Sox for the rest of his contract, or was last year's version going forward?

Look, the Sox are great right now, and if they win the Series, they will have deserved to do so in an unassailable way.

But Beckett has kept them afloat this postseason. Schilling's old and a FA. I honestly don't know how to project Matsuzaka in 2008. I'm not tremendously sure that the Sox are an emerging dynasty.

the "Logan's Run" Sox. I like it.

Red Sox will be fine. I am not sure what Beckett will look like, but if this year represents putting the blisters behind him, he looks pretty good.

Who will replace Lowell's production? Because I don't think 2008 Lowell can duplicate 2007 Lowell.

Drew will be better, because he has to be.

I'm not tremendously sure that the Sox are an emerging dynasty.

but you're not unsure? so, if you had to say ... are they or are they not an emerging dynasty?

Pedroia is better than Cano.

Your definition of better doesn't match mine.

Offense
Pedroia: +13/650 PA (park-adjusted position-adjusted batting runs using linear weights)
Cano: +14/650 PA

Defense
Pedroia: Zone Rating of .833. 4 plays made above average, 3 runs saved above average per 162 games.

Cano: Zone Rating of .846. 11 plays made above average, 9 runs saved above average per 162 games.

13 + 3 = 16
14 + 9 = 23

FWIW, UZR likes Cano's defense even more than zone rating.

Who will replace Lowell's production?

manny and drew will bounce back, ellsbury will be an upgrade over crisp, and if lugo doesn't improve, maybe jed lowrie gets a chance to show what he has.

I don't see convincing evidence that they're an emerging dynasty.

While they're not old, they're not stupendously young.
They play in a tough division.
I don't think a lot of their players seem "on the verge" of a career year.

Your definition of better doesn't match mine.

when you cherry-pick the data just right, pedroia's offense is comparable to pujols. but, i'm not giving away my secrets ... you'll probably just use them for evil.

ellsbury will be an upgrade over crisp

Has to be a defensive downgrade in center though. Crisp was pretty amazing out there.

Tough to beat in 2008? Sure. There's a lot to like about this team, and I'm confident that the FO won't screw it up.

Your definition of better doesn't match mine.

Thanks.

Has to be a defensive downgrade in center though. Crisp was pretty amazing out there.

not by much, if any. to call ellsbury fast is an understatement.

I'd guess Ellsbury's arm makes up at least part of any fly-chasing downgrade with Coco. Besides, all the scouting reports seem to say Ellsbury's a very good defensive player.

Has to be a defensive downgrade in center though. Crisp was pretty amazing out there.

He'll be a downgrade defensively, but not a significant one. He's an amazing defensive outfielder himself. The bat should more than off-set any defensive downgrade.

Don't forget, we'll have Buchholz, a top 5 prospect in baseball, in the rotation for the majority of the season. Masterson can come up at season's end and play a large role.

A rotation of Beckett, Matsuzaka, Buck, Lester, and Wakefield will be more than fine.

has someone kept track of the number of times The Uncapitalized One has predicted the Yankees' iminent demise? I feel like he does it every two weeks.

You guys are totally missing the irony of saying the next manager doesnt have to win right away and preaching patience while offering the first choice a one year contract. The irony!!!!!

How you enjoying the post-season so far, aleskel?

I see you caught last night's episode of Pardon My Zinger

Don't forget Wakefield possibly catching lightning in a bottle like he does every few years.

Ellsbury and Pedroia will have their rookie woes out of the way.

Ellsbury must be Ken Dryden or something to have his rookie woes out of the way next year despite still being a rookie.

has someone kept track of the number of times The Uncapitalized One has predicted the Yankees' iminent demise? I feel like he does it every two weeks.

huh?

has someone kept track of the number of times The Uncapitalized One has predicted the Yankees' iminent demise? I feel like he does it every two weeks.

All offseason, every offseason. I don't know why anyone responds to him, I don't think he's being serious, just looking to draw out some response. Look at posts 32, 52, 53, and 57. He's obviously not serious.

Calm down, kevin. Lester has a chance to be a solid #4 starter. Not awesome.

I can see a lot of guys haveing career years next year. I'm not saying it will happen. but the odds are very strong that at least a couple of these guys will emerge as stars next year. My best guess is that they will be Ellsbury and Buchholz.

Can anyone even imagine the buzz for the first Chamberlain-Buchholz matchup? It might result in the first $10,000 scalped regular season ticket.

Indeed. I am curious as to why Dick Vitale would call a 45 year old pitcher a Diaper Dandy.

Oy...

2008 "Red Sox" that will be 32 and older in 2008:

Varitek
Lowell
Lugo
Drew
Ortiz
Cora
Ramirez
Mirabelli
Wakefield
Schilling
Tavarez
Okajima
Timlin

Why that's 13 out of 25!!! The Sawx's 3-4-5-6-7 hitters! 40% of their rotation! Who cares that half of them are free agents or retiring? The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Compared to the Red Sox, they're a shitwagon. And that's who they'll have to beat next year.

After May 29th, the Yankees were about 12 games better than the Red Sox this year. Why should next year be so difficult? Is kevin assuming 80% of the Yanks starting rotation (and some of their replacements) will lose time to injury every year? Is kevin assuming Boston is guaranteed another virtually injury free season? Another 3rd place finish for the Red Sox is as likely as a Yankee demise.

Please stop with the AL East "tough division" stuff. 3 of the five teams NEVER contend, two of the three usually win 60-70 games, and Toronto persues .500 by beating up on the other two. Calling the AL East good because Boston and the Yankees are in it is like calling the AFC East good because the Patriots are in it.