“That’s pretty much what my job is,” Schoeneweis said of pitching to left-handed hitters. “That’s what I was brought here to do.”

So what'd it take for Willie to finally figure this out?

Scott Schoeneweis, quite possibly 2007’s second least popular Met.

Actually.

So what'd it take for Willie to finally figure this out?

I don't know that he has.

Actually.

Guillermo Mota says "Hi".

I don't know that he has.

Numbers wise, last year Schoeneweis had 265 PAs, and faced 108 lefties, so ~40%. This year he's had 47 PA, and faced 24 lefties, so ~50%. So Willie is getting there if nothing else.

You can't waste a roster spot on a lefty who pitches only to lefties. 50% seems kind of high to me.

Numbers wise, last year Schoeneweis had 265 PAs, and faced 108 lefties, so ~40%. This year he's had 47 PA, and faced 24 lefties, so ~50%. So Willie is getting there if nothing else.

And the Mets other main Oogy, Joe Smith, has faced 71 hitters this year, 57 of them right handed.

In those 57 PA, righties have 7 hits and 3 BB. In 14 PA against lefties, they have 5 hits and 2 BB.

Schoenweiss has the virtually equal split, as you mention. Against righties he has allowed 8 hits, 3 doubles, and a walk; against lefties 2 hits, 1 HR, and a BB. He's struck out 6 of the 24 lefties he has faced, and 1 of the 23 righties. For his career, he has allowed 1 HR for every 100 left handed hitters hes faced.

Guillermo Mota says "Hi".

I went back and forth on this. Here is my thinking. Mota didn't even play for 1/3 of the season, by which point Schoeneweis had racked up a lot of boos. Then, though Mota became more and more reviled, Schoeneweis was no less so over the course of the season.

“That’s pretty much what my job is,” Schoeneweis said of pitching to left-handed hitters. “That’s what I was brought here to do.”

So what'd it take for Willie to finally figure this out?

I should have followed up with this question exactly.

This year he's had 47 PA, and faced 24 lefties, so ~50%. So Willie is getting there if nothing else.

Or that's just a small sample.

6. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 16, 2008 at 10:03 AM (#2783041)

You can't waste a roster spot on a lefty who pitches only to lefties. 50% seems kind of high to me.

Bull. 50% is much too low for SS. SS is just terrible against RHBs. He gives up well hit balls to the weakest of hitters and that includes pitchers. There are enough dangerous LHBs to keep him around (Utley, Howard, Johnson, etc).

Or that's just a small sample.

It is. But it's all we got. We can check back in a month and see how it's going.

You can't waste a roster spot on a lefty who pitches only to lefties. 50% seems kind of high to me.

I think you can. They key is he has to have the common sense to pitch around tough righties sandwiched between lefties. Schoensuck should never get the opportunity to face Burrell, (unless its an IBB) but you'd hope he could handle random.middle.infielder.

This is one of the reasons why I don't get too worked up about Mets fans booing - there very rarely is a moral component to it. When a player plays poorly for a sustained period of time, he gets booed. If that player turns it around and plays well, he gets cheered. I don't see any problem with this - my boss wouldn't applaud my effort if my work product sucked.

In recent memory, I think the player who was booed most frequently and viciously by Mets fans was Mike Piazza, who not only couldn't get a hit in his first month as a Met, but also grounded into about 400 double plays. Then, he started crushing the ball for a few weeks, and I don't know if he heard a boo at Shea directed towards him ever again. If a player doesn't want to get booed, play better.

Bull. 50% is much too low for SS. SS is just terrible against RHBs. He gives up well hit balls to the weakest of hitters and that includes pitchers. There are enough dangerous LHBs to keep him around (Utley, Howard, Johnson, etc).

Not saying Schoenweis should be pitching against righties. Just that if he can get only lefties out, he's an utter waste of a roster spot. LOOGYs have to be able to get righties out to the point where they can face a decent %age of righties.

LOOGYs have to be able to get righties out to the point where they can face a decent %age of righties.

In the days of 7 man bullpens, this might not necessarily be the case. In any relatively close game, you can use Schoenweiss as the guy who only faces the one or two lefties, and in some of the blowouts you can use him for full innings.

The Mets are lucky because they have another lefty in the pen, Feliciano, who is murder on lefties but can also get righties out as well. So the Mets can use Schoeneweiss in the 6th inning of a game to try and get a guy like Howard or Utley out and not worry about having to throw a righty up there 2 innings later against the same guys.

In recent memory, I think the player who was booed most frequently and viciously by Mets fans was Mike Piazza, who not only couldn't get a hit in his first month as a Met, but also grounded into about 400 double plays.

In his first month with the Mets, Piazza went 33-88 (.375) but he did hit into five double plays. In his first nine games with the club, Piazza was 15-39 (.385). The Mets won their first seven games with Piazza in uniform. I don't recall them booing Piazza (they might very well have been) but if they were - it seems to be really misplaced.

The Mets are lucky because they have another lefty in the pen, Feliciano, who is murder on lefties but can also get righties out as well.

Except Willie doesn't know that Feliciano can get out righties as well. So Feliciano is treated as a LOOGY and the bullpen is overused most games. Unfortunately, Feliciano has pitched quite badly against righties this year (unlike previous years), so Wiliw will continue to underuse him. Unless he's fired, of course.

Not saying Schoenweis should be pitching against righties. Just that if he can get only lefties out, he's an utter waste of a roster spot. LOOGYs have to be able to get righties out to the point where they can face a decent %age of righties.

That's just not true. When your main competition has its share of strong lefty hitters, a LOOGY is quite valuable. The Phillies have Utley and Howard back-to-back, and the Braves have McCann.

This is one of the reasons why I don't get too worked up about Mets fans booing - there very rarely is a moral component to it. When a player plays poorly for a sustained period of time, he gets booed. If that player turns it around and plays well, he gets cheered. I don't see any problem with this - my boss wouldn't applaud my effort if my work product sucked.

CONCUR.

So the Mets can use Schoeneweiss in the 6th inning of a game to try and get a guy like Howard or Utley out and not worry about having to throw a righty up there 2 innings later against the same guys.

The ability to do that seems to me to be trivial compared to the usefulness of having another bat on the bench.

This is one of the reasons why I don't get too worked up about Mets fans booing - there very rarely is a moral component to it. When a player plays poorly for a sustained period of time, he gets booed. If that player turns it around and plays well, he gets cheered. I don't see any problem with this - my boss wouldn't applaud my effort if my work product sucked.

CONCUR.

Me too.

In his first month with the Mets, Piazza went 33-88 (.375) but he did hit into five double plays. In his first nine games with the club, Piazza was 15-39 (.385). The Mets won their first seven games with Piazza in uniform. I don't recall them booing Piazza (they might very well have been) but if they were - it seems to be really misplaced.

Wow - the stats really do not bear out my memory. I recall that Piazza was good but not great when he first came to the Mets but then went through a prolonged slump, but I can't figure out when this might have been from the game logs. I'm nearly positive though that Piazza went through a few weeks of pretty sustained booing. Anybody else care to share their recollection?

Yeah, I remember Piazza getting booed, but it wasn't the first week. The first week Piazza came aboard, the offense exploded. Baerga was hot and so was Huskey. I remember Baerga saying that the Mets lineup was better than those loaded mid 90s Cleveland lineups.

The ability to do that seems to me to be trivial compared to the usefulness of having another bat on the bench.

Have you seen the bats Willie selects? We dont' need *another* second baseman as a pinch hitter.

Based solely on the headline, I thought this would be a story about how the public at large doesn't notice or care if marginal players use steroids, but when it's somebody who's a household name, they become Satan incarnate.

Although, coincidentally, the two least-popular players on the 2007 Mets are Guillermo Mota and Scott Schoeneweis, both implicated in the PED hullabaloo.

In the days of 7 man bullpens, this might not necessarily be the case.

Not just seven-man bullpens, but the counterpart: short benches, which limits the use of platoons and pinch-hitters for players other than pitchers. You can bring in Schoeneweis in the 7th to face someone like Kelly Johnson, because Cox isn't likely to burn a bench player in that situation.

-- MWE

this links lists a few favorite Shea whipping-boys

George Foster & Bonilla, I remember very distinctly being booed; McReynolds?--not so much

The ability to do that seems to me to be trivial compared to the usefulness of having another bat on the bench.

But the Mets aren't going to add another bat; they will just add another reliever. Even if you are right, which I don't necessarily accept.


As for Piazza; I think the booing came a little later, maybe August or so? Did he make a comment like it was possible he wouldn't sign with the Mets or something?

Wow - the stats really do not bear out my memory. I recall that Piazza was good but not great when he first came to the Mets but then went through a prolonged slump, but I can't figure out when this might have been from the game logs. I'm nearly positive though that Piazza went through a few weeks of pretty sustained booing. Anybody else care to share their recollection?

Yes, you are correct. Piazza did endure a good amount of booing his first year with the Mets. I really think it was more a case of ridiculous expectations. I remember talking to a friend of mine who basically felt that although Piazza was hitting over .300, he was not hitting for power, and therefore not getting the job done. So I think Mets fans expected Piazza to hit a HR every time he came to the plate and when he did not do that...they booed.

McReynolds?--not so much

I believe at the end of 1989, the Mets were chasing down the Cardinals, and McReynolds started missing time for an ingrown toenail. Boy did that piss me off. Suck it up, double deuce.

CONCUR.

I agree, for the most part. Delgado gets booed because he has been horrible, but he isn't hated. If he started raking the cheers would come fast and furious.

But the booing does become a fetish sometimes. Kaz Matsui was the worst case I remember. He would get booed during pregame introductions and every AB, and if he drove in a run, the boos would be suspended only until he made his next out.

I just did a NYTimes search for "Mike Piazza" and "boo" in 1998. An August 4 article begins, "Mike Piazza hears boos every time he does not drive in a run. Last night, however, he turned them to cheers..."

You can try searching the Gamelogs for an awful streak leading up to that and you won't find it. In the week prior he hit .241 with 4 RBIs, and the Mets had a .500 record ... a slow stretch, but he was still hitting .330 as a Met.

This is an article from August 22nd:

If the fans at Shea Stadium want Mike Piazza back next season, they continue to have a strange way to show it. While the Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire's every move was cheered during Thursday night's doubleheader, Piazza was once again the target of boos...

Only Piazza knows what goes through his mind when he hears the boos, which began earlier in the season when he repeatedly failed in clutch situations for the Mets.

It goes on to describe in detail how Piazza was booed, until he got clutch hits, but then was booed again the next day. Also speculates on whether or not the booing would make contract negotiations more difficult.

I was at that doubleheader against the Cardinals - I don't have any real memory of the booing though. I do remember the cheering for McGwire.

"I believe at the end of 1989, the Mets were chasing down the Cardinals, and McReynolds started missing time for an ingrown toenail. Boy did that piss me off. Suck it up, double deuce."

I had an ingrown toenail once, could barely walk. Got infected, wound up spending ~6 weeks with excruciating pain in my arm; lost substantial use of index finger & thumb of both hands.

Feet are really not well adapted to life with shoes & concrete.

From my poking around, most LOOGYs end up facing about 50% righties. There are enough situations where the manager just automatically defaults to "lefty batter, must bring in lefty pitcher" even when that lefty batter isn't that good and will get pinch-hit for in that situation. Plus the L-R-L situations. Mike Myers may have been the ultimate LOOGY (542 IP and 2385 BF in 883 games, never topped 45 IP from 1999-2006) and he faced 47% RHB in his career.

I agree with the earlier post that it's fine to have a LOOGY as long as they can eat up some low-leverage innings as well. But there don't seem to be many managers who use them that way.

I had an ingrown toenail once, could barely walk. Got infected, wound up spending ~6 weeks with excruciating pain in my arm; lost substantial use of index finger & thumb of both hands.

I got one before too. I went to the doctor and had it excised. I'd think an MLB player could get just as efficient medical attention as I could.

I was at that doubleheader against the Cardinals - I don't have any real memory of the booing though. I do remember the cheering for McGwire.

I was also at that doubleheader and I remember it well because it was my first visit to Shea since 1988(when I moved West).

I actually booed(there was quite abit) Piazza in that DH and I am pretty sure I did because it was being floated that he would not resign with the Mets. I also remember cheering for McGwire as he hit 2 I believe and passed the 50HR consecutive seasons record. I also remember Piazza launching one and the guy in front of me directing a, "they aren't booing him now are they?" in my direction. I vowed that day to never boo again.

Also we left the 2nd game early and I missed a comeback because my girlfriend at the time was ######## about being there and wanted to try to get into the Chris Rock show.