How is a vote for Morneau by a NY writer a "homer" vote?

Because he is subjecting Jeter to a criterion that he can't possibly use to evaluate the other players. I mean, how does he know whether Morneau maybe put his arm around the often defenseless Rondell White? Or failed to defend Kyle Lohse in the local press? He doesn't.

Stupider and stupider, says I.

"Think, for example, of how powerful the message was when Pee Wee Reese put his arm around Jackie Robinson in full view of the crowd. Rodriguez needed something similar from Jeter…"

Really?

Anyway, it really looks like Jeter isn't going to win the MVP this year, hopefully he picks up the batting title today and a ring later on.

Another vote for Webb. Yippee.

Think, for example, of how powerful the message was when Pee Wee Reese put his arm around Jackie Robinson in full view of the crowd. Rodriguez needed something similar from Jeter.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous analogy ever authored by a sportswriter.

And Justin Morneau is maybe half as a deserving as Joe Mauer. Uncool.

It is an especially ridiculous analogy when Pee Wee Reese always insisted this "arm around Robinson to silence a booing crowd" never happened. At least according to Henry Fetter's "Taking on the Yankees".
Morneau is a good choice, Maurer would be better.

Personally my favorite award is the Weasel of the Year to Carl Pavano by Bob Klapsich in www.northjersey.com

40 million - 39.55 million is 450,000, not 50,000. Mr. Klapisch needs math lessons

Morneau is an awful choice. He's a 1B who isn't a defensive wizard and probably ranks somewhere around 10th in offensive productivity for the league. He's the 3rd best choice on his own team. It's retarded that he gets credit because the Twins started winning when he started winning, shouldn't that mean he gets demerits for causing the Twins to suck when he wasn't hitting? Maybe I'm just irrationally pissed that Jeter isn't going to get the MVP.

I think Jeter is deserving, and should win. I don't see any Twins choice land being head and shoulders above any other Twin player, particularly since the pitching was much more important than the hitting.

MVP odds as I type:

Jeter bet $173 to win $100
Howard bet $128 to win $100

Joel Sherman has always been an incomptent. His specialty is the kind of stories demanding immediate trades or the like that writers resort to when they have nothing insightful to impart to their readers. Its a shame that the New York newspapers do not have one really excellent sportswriter covering either the Yankees or the Mets. The notion of evaluating MVP candidates based on their speaking out on demand at the behest of media morons is beyond belief and speaks to the arrogance of morons like Sherman who have an undeserved public platform (trust me, I live in Manhattan and no one is buying the New York Post to read Sherman's stores; he could disappear tomorrow and no one would know the difference).

I continue to admire Jeter for refusing to kowtow to media demands. I get a kick out of Derek continuing to provide the writers with his patented bland, innocuos quotes.

Morneau is an awful choice. He's a 1B who isn't a defensive wizard and probably ranks somewhere around 10th in offensive productivity for the league.

I agree with that, but I'd have no problem with Mauer. A .346 hitting catcher with a .934 OPS is a rare bird indeed.

Did you read his book about the '96 team, cappy? I thought it was very good.

I'm not sure that any Yankee should win MVP this year. This year is more like a bad 3 Standard Deviation simulation for Yankee fans. How can any single player on a team that can legitimately bat Robinson Cano last be considered MVP? This team was gifted with a playoff berth from Spring Training. The real Yankee question is why didn't they win 105 games this year. My vote goes to Frank Thomas - the A's would not be there without him.

Did you read his book about the '96 team, cappy? I thought it was very good.

I did not, TVerik, but I'll check it out. I do think he has decent reporting and writing skills; my primary beef with him is that he is too lazy to really provide insightful analysis on a day-to-day basis. Its much easier to simply run a fill in the balks story. You know..."The Yankees must go get <___________>". Or his 10th "Derek must speak out immediately" story every time Alex strikes out in the late innings of a close game.

If you're going with "without that guy they wouldn't have been as good", I might vote for Melky for MVP. Or Damon.

Or Wang.

This team was gifted with a playoff berth from Spring Training.

So they were not on track to make the playoffs for the first four months of the year as a rope-a-dope ploy?

Joel Sherman has always been an incomptent. His specialty is the kind of stories demanding immediate trades or the like that writers resort to when they have nothing insightful to impart to their readers. Its a shame that the New York newspapers do not have one really excellent sportswriter covering either the Yankees or the Mets.

You apparently haven't been reading Sherman for the past five years or so. He did start out like you describe, but he has evolved into a thoughtful writer who understands sabermetric principles and makes an effort to incorporate them into his writing. He writes for the NY Post, so there is the occasional outlandish idea in his articles, but even those aren't completly batshit insane. For the record, I don't agree with his choice Morneau as the MVP, but part of the point of the article was to puncture the Derek Jeter/Superhero myth, or at least to point out and that Jeter's tepid support of Rodriguez hasn't been the utmost in Jayson Starkian leadership. I think that's a valid point.

The real Yankee question is why didn't they win 105 games this year.

Its a simple question to answer for anyone who watched all the games: injuries and mediocre pitching beyond Wang, Mussina and Rivera.

The real Yankee question is why didn't they win 105 games this year.

The real miracle is how they didn't lose 105 games with that pitching staff.

OK, that was BS, but when you've got one starter who's pretty much guaranteed to go seven, another with tremendous talent yet who is increasingly unrelible and will almost always need relief by the seventh, another who may not even pitch in the postseason, and then Jaret Wright, there is no way to call that team a cinch to win any 105 games. They succeeded as they did because of a great lineup, but also because the truth is that there are no standout teams in either league this year, meaning no teams with the sort of solid pitching that is necessary to qualify for that term. Right now the Yanks remind me of the Miami Dolphins of the early Marino era, capable of scoring at will but also incapable of stopping any other team with a decent lineup itself. IOW a crapshoot. If they played the 2005 White Sox they'd be toast, not to mention if they had to face their own teams from the late 90's.

I continue to admire Jeter for refusing to kowtow to media demands. I get a kick out of Derek continuing to provide the writers with his patented bland, innocuos quotes.

This is a fascinating perspective, but I hope Yankee Clapper weighs in as well to provide balance.

Well billy, todays thoughtful column says that Jeter is the number 3 most valuable player, but would have been the number one if he had put his arm around A-rod. BTW, Derek did give Alex a wamr embrace in the dugout yesterday after Alex's homerun, but apparently the embrace must take place when Sherman wants it to take place.

How can any single player on a team that can legitimately bat Robinson Cano last be considered MVP?

Cano has all of 23 plate appearances in the #9 hole this year.

-- MWE

"I continue to admire Jeter for refusing to kowtow to media demands. I get a kick out of Derek continuing to provide the writers with his patented bland, innocuos quotes."

I continue to be fascinated by the belief that Jeter actually has something to say, but elects instead to provide his patented bland, innocuous quotes.

Perhaps it's better to provide bland quotes and rarely be suspected of having a bland mind, than to speak out and remove all doubt of one's blandness.

Morneau is an awful choice. He's a 1B who isn't a defensive wizard and probably ranks somewhere around 10th in offensive productivity for the league.

Checking at this. . . He's 7th in the league in OPS. His rough PA (Hits plus Walks) is 641. Five of the six guys below him have under 600. Four of the five guys below him have fewer PA. I don't see how he's as low as tenth.

I wouldn't vote for him, but I don't think he's an awful choice.

Not mention that they don't pay ballplayers for the quality of their quotes.

Reporter: Derek, what did you think of your team's execution today?
Jeter: I'm in favor of it.

Joel Sherman has always been an incomptent. His specialty is the kind of stories demanding immediate trades or the like that writers resort to when they have nothing insightful to impart to their readers. Its a shame that the New York newspapers do not have one really excellent sportswriter covering either the Yankees or the Mets. The notion of evaluating MVP candidates based on their speaking out on demand at the behest of media morons is beyond belief and speaks to the arrogance of morons like Sherman who have an undeserved public platform (trust me, I live in Manhattan and no one is buying the New York Post to read Sherman's stores; he could disappear tomorrow and no one would know the difference).

Are you reading any sports section in NYC? Joel Sherman is possibly the only worthwhile thing about the Post. He's opinionated without being overly personal or biased, and he's always informative and uncommonly lucid on radio and TV as well. Compared to disgraces like Lupica, Sherman is a certified credit to his profession.

Also, if Jeter is renowned for his intangible, why can't he criticized for not defending a teammate in need? Otherwise, let's not pretend he's any kind of Captain other than in name only.

It's a reasonable opinion, but I disagree with it.

Win Shares:

Jeter: 31
Morneau: 27

EQA:

Jeter: .318
Morneau: .308

Anyway, it really looks like Jeter isn't going to win the MVP this year, hopefully he picks up the batting title today and a ring later on.

The Yankee scorer may make the first part of your dream come true. The last two days, Friday and Saturday, each game featured an undeniable fielding error that was cheerfully ruled a Jeter "hit." It's added 4 points to Derek Jeter's average, from .341 to .345, just a point behind Joe Mauer.

I don't know how friendly the Minnesota scorer is being to Mauer, but the Friday not-an-error was so egregious that even Michael Kay questioned the decision. Michael Kay. The man who, if he ever arrived home to find the entire Yankee starting lineup ravishing his wife, would talk about pinstripe pride.

Kolmo, I read all the New york papers. You are right about Lupica, but I can't agree with you about Sherman. Sherman is the guoy who in 1998 when the Yankees started 0-3 led off his column with a story saying that next game was a "big game" and suggested that Torre's job should be in jeopardy if the Yankees lost it.
In terms of criticizing, Jeter: criticize away. Jeter does not lack for criticism out here. Where he conspicuously lacks criticism is from current or former teammates who have all raved about his leadership qualities. Red Sox players have also been highly complimentary of Derek Jeter. The only ones who make the types of criticisms you talk about are certain fans... and columnists of the Sherman type.

Michael Kay. The man who, if he ever arrived home to find the entire Yankee starting lineup ravishing his wife, would talk about pinstripe pride.

I'm pretty sure Michael Kay is a bachelor. Before he switched from radio to tv he said on air, "I'm not only a client - I'm the playa president!"

What the hell is up with headline writers constantly spelling Morneau's name wrong?

Christ, it takes 2 seconds to look up a guy's name. Lazy.

Justin Moreknow he is a pretty good kid Al for some 1 who bats left handed I tip my cap to the Twins though the Most Val. Player this year should be German Die.

I really have a sinking feeling that Jeter will win the MVP Award. And when presented with this news, Jeter will say: "Really, this whole team is full of MVPs. I just care about this team winning."

I really have a sinking feeling that Jeter will win the MVP Award.

Well, he should.

What the hell is up with headline writers constantly spelling Morneau's name wrong?

Christ, it takes 2 seconds to look up a guy's name. Lazy.

Well, down here we spell it "Morneau." But obviously, some writers think that, since Morneau's Canadian, the "our" rule must apply. "Colour," "flavour," "Mourneau." They're just trying to show some respect for his heritage.

The first "Mourneau-ing" looks like an intentional (but awkward) pun. The other two were clearly screwups.

Webb got hammered today. He can only hope that all writers mailed out their ballots early this morning :(

What a horrible way to end the season. At least he finished it healthy...

Whoever wins the NL Cy Young, congrats to him.

Wow, baseball chick might be right. Oswalt might end the season as the most deserving NL Cy candidate.

>My vote goes to Frank Thomas - the A's would not be there without him.

But if they had had Ortiz they would have been better off. i.e. Ortiz is a better hitter who had a better year. So how in the world can Frank be MVP. Just by the accident of being in the right place? I don't think so.

>>My vote goes to Frank Thomas - the A's would not be there without him.

>But if they had had Ortiz they would have been better off. i.e. Ortiz is a better hitter who had a better year. So how in the world can Frank be MVP. Just by the accident of being in the right place? I don't think so.


It depends on whether you feel that the MVP should be given to the player with the most absolute value or the most value relative to his team. Or the most value relative to a winning team. Or the most prorated value relative to his playing time on a winning team. Or the most absolute WPA-value relative to his team regardless of whether they're having a winning season. Etc. etc. etc.

Arroyo is also a decent candidate for NL Cy Young, dammit.

Morneau is an awful choice. He's a 1B who isn't a defensive wizard and probably ranks somewhere around 10th in offensive productivity for the league. He's the 3rd best choice on his own team. It's retarded that he gets credit because the Twins started winning when he started winning, shouldn't that mean he gets demerits for causing the Twins to suck when he wasn't hitting? Maybe I'm just irrationally pissed that Jeter isn't going to get the MVP.

This is simply not true. Morneau is 5th in the AL in win shares and two of the guys ahead of him play for the Red Sox and have no chance. There are four legitimate candidates, Jeter plus the three Twins guys. Of the four Jeter might be the best choice but it's close enough that legitimate arguments could be made for any of them. The denigration of one of the candidates without any reason is simply irrational bias.

The denigration of one of the candidates without any reason is simply irrational bias.

CS didn't denigrate Morneau w/o any reason, he gave plenty of reasons. He might be wrong, but he tried. E.g., Morneau ranks well in win shares, but not VORP.

Also, you don't think "German Die" is a legit candidate?

Are you reading any sports section in NYC? Joel Sherman is possibly the only worthwhile thing about the Post.

He insulted The Jeter. End of discussion.

Morneau is 5th in the AL in win shares and two of the guys ahead of him play for the Red Sox and have no chance.

What do the Red Sox players having no chance have to do with Morneau's credentials?

DCW3 _ Posted: October 01, 2006 at 06:12 PM (#2194006)

Wow, baseball chick might be right. Oswalt might end the season as the most deserving NL Cy candidate.

ohhhhhhh

yes YES YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

between roy and webb and carpenter

roy has the ERA title, the most RSAA, the most QS, best K:BB, fewest BB/9 IP, fewest HR/9 IP, the best august and september when the going got tough

and the most important of all

the biggest bulldozer!!!!!

Sherman didn't indicate that he was an actual MVP voter this year, and I doubt that those who are will give much weight to Jeter's alleged failure to hug A-Rod at the appropriate time, since that seems like an insufficient reason to vote for or against a MVP candidate. But perhaps this was just a devious way for the NY media to plant the idea that there are only frivilous reasons for voting against Jeter.

the biggest bulldozer!!!!!

Is that some kind of euphemism?