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Sunday, September 30, 2007

N.Y. Post: WAGNER: WILLIE, RICK ‘NOT A LOT OF HELP’ (RR)

Up to the hill they’d like to send ya
Billy, don’t you turn your back on me

The Mets’ bullpen has been a mess for most of the season, and Billy Wagner evidently is tired of the pitchers involved shouldering the blame. In a New York magazine article that hits newsstands tomorrow, Wagner points a finger at Willie Randolph and pitching coach Rick Peterson as part of the problem.

“We’ve been throwing four innings a night - for months!” Wagner told the magazine. “Our pitching coach has no experience talking to a bullpen. He can help you mechanically, but he can’t tell you emotions. He has no idea what it feels like. And neither does Willie. They’re not a lot of help, put it that way.”

The Billy Wagner New York Magazine Article here.

Repoz Posted: September 30, 2007 at 12:19 PM | 52 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 30, 2007 at 12:46 PM (#2550955)

“We’ve been throwing four innings a night - for months!”

Isn't that on the starters at least as much as it is on the manager and pitching coach?

2. PatrickInTheWoods, Apostate Posted: September 30, 2007 at 12:49 PM (#2550956)

but he can’t tell you emotions

My emotions are totally programmable like that, but then I'm a robot. It sucks when I lose the remote, though.

Wagner. Sheesh, the guy just can't keep his mouth shut.

3. Gaelan Posted: September 30, 2007 at 12:56 PM (#2550962)

Good timing. What a baby. Imagine complaining about his pitching coach being good at helping his pitching but not being any good at how it feels to be a pitcher. Life must be tough.

4. Rich Posted: September 30, 2007 at 12:59 PM (#2550964)

If Wagner is looking for an ass patter, Mel Stottlemyre is probably available.

5. Chris in Wicker Park Posted: September 30, 2007 at 01:45 PM (#2550998)

Dear billy goat,

Please shut up until the season is over.

Thanks,
Chris

6. Quinton McCracken's BFF Posted: September 30, 2007 at 01:50 PM (#2551002)

I'M A PEOPLE PERSON!!! CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND??? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??? - Rick

7. PatrickInTheWoods, Apostate Posted: September 30, 2007 at 01:53 PM (#2551003)

ass patter

I got nothing else, I just wanted to repeat that.

8. Boogie Nights Powell Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:02 PM (#2551012)

Earlier this season, Wagner suspected that not enough relievers knew their roles.

The Rock sez "Shut your mouth and know your role!"

9. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2551020)

Wagner suspected that not enough relievers knew their roles

Yeah, seriously, aside from the closer and maybe the current 8th-inning setup guy nowadays, what's any reliever's role? Sit by the phone and be ready to warm up. It's sort of the job description. I am sympathetic with players who like to work in organized systems, and I realize that some managers are idiots in deploying their bullpens. Wagner's is just an odd way of putting it. The "fireman" analogy is still good, after all. Imagine a volunteer fireman saying "I don't know my role. Some nights they wake me up at 2 AM and other nights not at all. Last week it was three nights in a row out on calls. What's my role?"

10. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:21 PM (#2551023)

Imagine a volunteer fireman saying "I don't know my role. Some nights they wake me up at 2 AM and other nights not at all. Last week it was three nights in a row out on calls. What's my role?"

But I'd be somewhat more willing to listen to such a volunteer if someone who shared his job went undisturbed through all of these calls. In any job-sharing system there has to be a defined order in which workers must do shared tasks.

11. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2551033)

From a Mets fan's perspective, does the newsblog header "N.Y. Post: Wagner:" ever portend good news?

12. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:49 PM (#2551049)

Did the Rock ever roid?

13. GregD Posted: September 30, 2007 at 02:55 PM (#2551056)

He was an idiot in Philadelphia, he is an idiot in New York, and he'll be an idiot when he retires back to Virginia. He's got a superhero's arm and a toddler's brain.

14. Urban Faber Posted: September 30, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2551059)

The guys in Philadelphia know their roles -- pitch every day.

15. Dudefella Posted: September 30, 2007 at 04:24 PM (#2551175)

This morning, Wagner said he was answering a question related to how Peterson and Randolph help him handle the emotions of being a closer, and he was trying to say that, unlike them, he has spent his whole career in the bullpen and therefore has more experience in dealing with these situations. He said he apologized to Randolph and Peterson because he didn’t want them to misinterpret his comments. “They’ve been great,” Wagner said. “As crappy as I’ve been, they’ve been supportive.”

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/?8dpc

16. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: September 30, 2007 at 04:30 PM (#2551202)

How many closers in baseball - and that includes Wags from the Houston and Philly days - have a pitching coach who has extensive (or even exclusive) bullpen experience? I'm pretty sure that no relief pitcher has ever managed, certainly not in the TLR/closer era.

17. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: September 30, 2007 at 04:42 PM (#2551258)

I'm pretty sure that no relief pitcher has ever managed

Bud Black pitched over 100 games in relief. (Midcareer between two incarnations as a starter, oddly enough.) Roger Craig spent about half his career relieving, and was known as an excellent handler of pitchers. But you are right that relievers-as-managers are extremely scarce.

18. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: September 30, 2007 at 04:43 PM (#2551266)

Whoops! I thought of Black as a starting pitcher.

19. Steve Treder Posted: September 30, 2007 at 04:47 PM (#2551278)

How many closers in baseball - and that includes Wags from the Houston and Philly days - have a pitching coach who has extensive (or even exclusive) bullpen experience?

Dave Righetti's been the Giants' pitching coach for, I don't know, something close to 10 years now.

Relievers-as-managers are extremely scarce, but that's really a function of the fact that pitchers-as-managers aren't real common.

20. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: September 30, 2007 at 06:12 PM (#2551721)

The Met bullpen is actually going to work less season than last. They just aren't very good.

21. Banta Posted: September 30, 2007 at 07:39 PM (#2552075)

Another reason why Willie and Peterson will be gone. Because either Wagner knows or they do... and Wagner costs a lot more.

22. Banta Posted: September 30, 2007 at 07:57 PM (#2552127)

Wagner's probably right about one thing... after reading that article posted here earlier in the year about the awful analogies that Peterson used to relate his ideas to players, it does seem he has no idea how to interact with people.

23. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: September 30, 2007 at 09:17 PM (#2552309)

Apparently Billy felt it necessary to channel Al Leiter only to not hide behind being listed as "veteran team member".

Mike Maddux was a relief pitcher.

24. Banta Posted: September 30, 2007 at 09:22 PM (#2552318)

I'm watching the Rockies postgame and everyone there is convinced that Randolph is as good as gone.

25. Lassus: Posted: September 30, 2007 at 09:38 PM (#2552328)

I was coming home from somewhere unnamable and I saw a guy on the Astoria platform when I got off across the way. He was muttering to himself, kicking the platform, entreating to Klaatu, turning his head this way and that, blinking way too much. Generally, one of New York City's fine batsh!t insane population that live, well, everywhere. But he was wearing a Mets jersey. Piazza.

I yelled "BANTA!" but he didn't answer, just grasped the railing of the stair and started talking to it.

26. Banta Posted: September 30, 2007 at 09:45 PM (#2552331)

Close, but no cigar, Lassus. I don't live in NY at this point.

But hopefully, I don't live in Tampa much longer either.

Guy sounds like a loser. When I talk to a railing, it damn well responds.

27. Guy Fawkes Posted: September 30, 2007 at 10:27 PM (#2552347)

Is it me or does Wagner portray the entire bullpen, including himself, as a bunch of softies? I mean, really, are we so far gone from the previous era of baseball where pitchers complain about pitching too much?. I mean, I understand that times have changed, but if you can't pitch every other game as a reliever, what good are you? Why would we baby our pitchers so much to the point where it seems like they require two days rest after throwing one fastball?

28. Hubie Brooks (Not Really) Posted: October 01, 2007 at 01:41 AM (#2552456)

Billy you're a stupid ##### redneck, who has no guts and fastball has slowed down and is looking very straight and hitable.

I hope one of your farm animals kicks you in the head.

29. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: October 01, 2007 at 04:27 AM (#2552579)

I smell a trade.

30. Boots Day Posted: October 01, 2007 at 04:50 AM (#2552592)

I'm pretty sure that no relief pitcher has ever managed

Phil Regan spent most of his career as an ace reliever, and managed the Orioles in 1995.

31. billyshears Posted: October 01, 2007 at 04:51 AM (#2552593)

Wagner is only one notch above Armando Benitez, but he still has two years left on his contract, so there's time for him to reach Benitezian levels of chokitude. Maybe if Wagner was emotionally equipped to not be shitty or unavailable for most of September, the Mets would have won the division.

32. Banta Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:03 AM (#2552599)

Maybe if Wagner was emotionally equipped to not be shitty or unavailable for most of September, the Mets would have won the division.

The sad part is we can play this game with so many aspects of the season, since the Mets came up just BARELY short. Maybe if El Duque hadn't gotten injured... if Alou had only recovered from his injury a week sooner... if Brian Lawrence had made one less start... if Randolph had used Mota just a few less times... the list is endless.

33. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:24 AM (#2552606)

So is Wagner a Met next year, or what?

Mets melt-downs are not nearly as fun as Yankee meltdowns. Mets fans are so practical. So, commonsense! It's boring. It's dare I say, Average.

Yankee melt-downs are the best. Everybody's job is on the line! The star player didn't win an MVP, the piece of ####! He never produces when it matters, and further more .. he he .. he gets massages in the park! Classic stuff. The endless parade of 'Steinbrenner will never stand for this', it all just priceless. Of course, it always "depends what the boys in Tampa think" .. LMAO ..

Yeah, Mets melt-downs are boring. They are 'relieved its over'. Wait till next year ..

The Yankees got ya beat on that front too.
Hopefully, the Yankees melt-down next weekend doesn't disappoint! Mets fans should pay attention. Learn something. :)

34. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:51 AM (#2552610)

You know, it's probably true that if the Mets brought back the same team and same management next year, they'd win the East. The Braves will likely be worse, and the Phillies will likely be worse. The Braves will lose Andruw Jones, Kelly Johnson might not be as good as he was this year, Chipper Jones injured more, John Smoltz older, etc., while the Phillies only made it because Kyle Kendrick got lucky with BABIP, Jamie Moyer didn't collapse completely, Jon Leiber turned in half a decent year, and Gillick managed to get Kyle Lohse. And Tom Gordon gave them more than they could have hoped for. The chances of any of that happening next year, let alone all of it, are pretty low.

35. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:58 AM (#2552612)

I was coming home from somewhere unnamable and I saw a guy on the Astoria platform when I got off across the way. He was muttering to himself, kicking the platform, entreating to Klaatu, turning his head this way and that, blinking way too much. Generally, one of New York City's fine batsh!t insane population that live, well, everywhere. But he was wearing a Mets jersey. Piazza.

Oh yeah, him. He's been that way for years. Ever since Timo Perez ambled on Todd Zeile's notahomerun. Can't say as I blame him.

36. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:05 AM (#2552613)

The Phils have some big contracts expiring so they'll have some money to spend. Garcia and Lieber are off the books as is Rowand. I think they are going to overpay to re-sign Rowand and sign Schilling and move Myers back to the rotation.

Hamels/Myers/Schilling/Moyer/Kendrick or Eaton is a pretty good rotation and the offense is top flight. They'll piece together a bullpen and be pretty good.

They aren't going to keep Myers in the bullpen, are they?

37. ColonelTom Posted: October 01, 2007 at 07:07 AM (#2552623)

Did the Rock ever roid?

Finally, the Rock has come back to Baseball Primer!

As for your question, what do you think?

(wait for it...)

It doesn't matter what you think!

38. Who is Karim Garcia? Posted: October 01, 2007 at 02:48 PM (#2552917)

The WWE (or EWW backwards) is pretty lousy now. With the Rock's new (presumably awful)flick about to come out, it may not be long before he's telling folks to 'go suck on a monkey's nipple' again. Good times.

The guy's got a lotta talent, but H'wood doesn't seem to know what to do with him.

39. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 01, 2007 at 02:57 PM (#2552937)

The guy's got a lotta talent, but H'wood doesn't seem to know what to do with him.

I'm about 100% sure I'm the only one, but I liked "The Rundown". The fight scene between him and the guy from Teenage Mutant Turtles II was pretty sweet.

40. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: October 01, 2007 at 03:48 PM (#2553012)

The guy's got a lotta talent, but H'wood doesn't seem to know what to do with him.

He could easily be a Schwarzenegger for the new millenium, but given the roles he picks up I bet he thinks the kind of roles Arnold took would be below him.

41. Belfry Bob Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:22 PM (#2553192)

Phil Regan spent most of his career as an ace reliever, and MIS-managed the Orioles in 1995.

There, fixed.

42. Quiet Flows the Don Taussig Avenger (Edmundo)

Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:41 PM (#2553241)

Jamie Moyer didn't collapse completely ... Jon Leiber turned in half a decent year ... And Tom Gordon gave them more than they could have hoped for.

Moyer didn't collapse completely but he certainly didn't give them anything above what could be expected, other than to stay healthy perhaps. But he's in terrific shape and isn't going to hurt his arm by throwing too hard. :)
You mean the 78 inning, 97 ERA+ Jon Leiber?
You mean the 40 inning, 97 ERA+ Tom Gordon?

I'll agree that depending on Kendrick to extrapolate what he did this year over 200 innings next year is a reach. He is a heady, gutsy young pitcher but those peripherals are scary.

No doubt the Phils have a lot of work to do this off-season. Lieber, Garcia and Rowand are FAs, freeing up a bit of money. No more paying for Abreu; only 1 more year of their cut of Thome. But they will have money to spend, although more Adam Eatons would doom this team. Gillick's been all over the place as a GM. For 2007, I'd give him an A for in-season moves (Romero, Lohse, Iguchi, meh for Durbin, minus for Mesa); a B+ for freebie off-season pickups (Werth, Dobbs) and an F for off-season, money moves (Garcia, Eaton, Barajas, Helms)

43. The Essex Snead Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:52 PM (#2553261)

With the Rock's new (presumably awful) flick about to come out...

You mean the flick that pulled in over $22 million & was #1 at the box office this past weekend? Between this, & his co-starring spot in the upcoming Get Smart remake (w/ Steve Carell & Anne Hathaway), I think Dwayne's days of smelling and elbowing are a thing of the past. (I say this as a fan of The Rundown, which was coincidentally directed by the guy that directed this week's #2 flick, The Kingdom.)

44. The District Attorney Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:54 PM (#2553265)

With the Rock's new (presumably awful)flick about to come out, it may not be long before he's telling folks to 'go suck on a monkey's nipple' again.

It already came out and was the top-grossing movie this weekend, making $22.7M. (You're right in all probability about the "awful" part.)

Wagner seems like a very unpleasant personality, and I'm surprised that's not a better-known fact... but I have no problem with him closing for the Mets. I don't see him as comparable to Benitez at all. Who would you rather have closing??

45. Quiet Flows the Don Taussig Avenger (Edmundo)

Posted: October 01, 2007 at 05:59 PM (#2553270)

his co-starring spot in the upcoming Get Smart remake

As a big, big fan of Get Smart, I shudder. The TV series was so rooted in its time, updating it to the new aughts can only be forced, I fear. And if it's retro, why do it?

46. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:00 PM (#2553273)

Yeah, and it could never possibly live up to The Nude Bomb.

47. Quiet Flows the Don Taussig Avenger (Edmundo)

Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:00 PM (#2553274)

'go suck on a monkey's nipple'

And the only response to seeing these words in print is, "Hmmmmmm, monkey's nipple"

48. Quiet Flows the Don Taussig Avenger (Edmundo)

Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:04 PM (#2553281)

The Nude Bomb

Thanks a lot, VLMJ. One hideous memory now unsuppressed. Yeah, no need for that one either.

49. zonk Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:06 PM (#2553283)

Wait...

The Rundown isn't considered a relatively OK film? I'm not saying it's Godfather I/II or Citizen Kane or anything, but in the sea of hollywood films, it's a hell of a lot closer to the crest of a wave than it is the rip current. Do I just have a repressed mancrush on Sean William Scott?

50. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:12 PM (#2553291)

Zonk, The Rundown rates a 6.5 on imdb.com and a 70% on Rotten Tomatoes. I'd say that's the movie-world definition of replacement level.

51. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:15 PM (#2553294)

I'd say that's the movie-world definition of replacement level.

Really? I would think replacement level would be something like any of Dane Cook or Jessica Biel's movies. I think 6.5 out of ten or 70 out of a hundred is probably closer to average then replacement level.

Zonk, I just assumed I would get ripped on this board for liking The Rundown. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just didn't think there would be anyone else here who did like it.

52. zonk Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:23 PM (#2553305)

Gotta agree with CbP -

A 70% on RT is something I might make an effort to see... I think "film replacement level" is something closer to a IMDB 5/RT 50%.

53. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: October 01, 2007 at 06:28 PM (#2553320)

I'm not as familiar with Rotten Tomatoes' ratings, but with imdb you have to factor in grade inflation. After all, that's a website on which The Shawshank Redemption (a legitimately good, perhaps even great movie) clocks in as the second best movie of all time, and the overwrought, overlong third Lord of the Rings flick is also in the top 10. (Full disclosure: I've never seen The Rundown, so I can't comment on it.)

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