They should cut him

(The following comment is NOT intended to suggest or imply that Jose Reyes makes a habit of not giving a full effort on the baseball field. Reyes is a great young ballplayer who with this exception has always given a fine display on the diamond. The remarks that follow speak as to why Reyes is being used as an example by his manager to send a message to the team as a whole which contains other young players who may be inclined to engage in similar actions in the future.

I hope this is understood.)

I will point out that this type of managerial action is taking place more frequently the last several years. NOT, in my opinion, because the loafing frequency rate of players has increased. But that it is a "market correction" if you will by managers who have recognized the danger of going along to get along. The late 90's and early 00's saw the peak of the players competing as to who could look the "most cool" by not really appearing to exert oneself but still succeeding. It didn't reach crisis levels but it was getting there.

A new wave of managers didn't like what they were seeing and have attempted to modify certain behaviors. Good for them.

I think the success of teams like the Angels, the Marlins with McKeon, the Cardinals, and the White Sox all demonstrated that good teams typically have an edge to them. Trying to minimize one's perspiration output doesn't normally jibe with playing hard-nosed baseball.

As much as I like Jose, Willie did the right thing here. The All-Star break can't come fast enough.

Mets fans, is this a habit with Reyes? I've never seen it, but I hardly watch every game. Do you get the impression that Willie reacted to the first time he saw this, or that there was a series of warnings before the indignity happened?

I watch some Mets game, and Reyes thing is a team thing. Wright does it, Delgado does it, Franco (I've heard) does it, and Reyes has done it more than once. That's a problem with this team all year. Willie probably addressed it privately or something, and Willie certainly had to step it up after yesterday's game. The only problem is picking on Reyes, I can see a lot of negatives, because more than Reyes deserves to be called out for giving better effort.

I like the Mets, but this year's team hasn't been exactly endearing.

Last year's team had essentially the same cast of characters. Are you saying that these guys "hustled" last year but not this year?

Mets Fans,

Is this action completely out of character for Reyes? I never got the impression he was one to mail it in at any point. Quite the contrary, he seemed like a hyperactive dynamo, but I don't see him as often as you guys do. He's literally the last person on the Mets who I would have guessed would do this.

You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you?

LOLLYGAGGERS!!!!!!!

Wake-up call to all the Mets that they aren't getting the job done.

If he picked out Reyes, it's because Reyes is the tablesetter for the team, the guy who literally leads them around the bases. Probably the most talented guy on the team.

Good for Randolph that he picked out the best and not a lesser player.

TV:

I think Randolph is working to create a certain level of behaviors in the younger players while "grandfathering" in the older veterans. That is a somewhat dangerous approach as we discovered in Cincy where Jerry Narron called Edwin Encarnacion on the carpet for hustle issues but looked the other way on Junior not always giving it his best effort. Red Menace, a Reds fan here, stated that Narron had lost some of the clubhouse due to the different rules in place.

Agreed with Darren that in my limited viewing Reyes had always seemed to be at a high kinetic pace. But then that fits with my supposition that Randolph wants the lad to maintain that approach and not slip into some bad habits. So attack the situation NOW before it becomes a real issue.

But this is why managers get paid the serious change. Properly motivating the talent, and the Mets have a LOT of talent, is a constant challenge.

Reyes has loafed before. He's been arguing a lot more this season, too. Acts like a baby sometimes when he does it.

Now someone pointed out in the Mets chatter last night that perhaps we're just noticing this stuff more this season than last because they are losing more. Probably true, but still, there's some significant attitude problems out there methinks.

Harveys voiced my issue with calling out Reyes a little better. I am hoping that Reyes ignores the probable different standards and just takes it upon himself to lead by example, setting an example hopefully that picks up everyone's hustle.

TV, last years team was more or less the same, there were some hustle issues too, but the fact that it was a bunch of young players coming together, probably the positive stories drowned out some of the negative issues. This year the expectations are different. While still young, these Mets shouldn't play like a young team. The wound of last years playoff loses should have fortified them and make them hungrier. I am sure their approach is the same, and they still give good effort, but expectations, you know.

Ah, for pete's sake. The Mets are supposed to drink sh!t, not play like sh!t.

You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you?


Not David Eckstein?

I think the success of teams like the Angels, the Marlins with McKeon, the Cardinals, and the White Sox all demonstrated that good teams typically have an edge to them.

If the Angels benched players who didn't hustle down to first, there wouldn't be much of a lineup left.

You know what the worst part of it is? The fact that the Braves and Phillies have been even worse. The Mets have been miserable for over a month but there's no repercussions. They're still in first and I'm sure some of them realize they can get by even with mediocre play.

They need some kind of shock to the system. Maybe falling into second place sometime in the next week or two is the best thing that could happen.

8. A Surfeit of Peaches Graham (SdeB) Posted: July 07, 2007 at 12:04 PM (#2432074)
You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you?

9. baseball chick Posted: July 07, 2007 at 12:06 PM (#2432075)
LOLLYGAGGERS!!!!!!!

I will never ever get tired of these interactions in threads about loafing.

The way I would describe Jose is a mix of competitive and petulent. There are times when he doesn't have a good AB -- a pop-up or a grounder -- and it's not really a lack of hustle as it is a first reaction of being frustrated. You might call it being a baby (the way Matt did), and that is certainly a fair (if a bit harsh) characterization of the way he acted when he got a really awful call on a steal attempt about a week or so ago. The real problem it reflects is that Jose's first reaction is not always what it should be: on the next AB, or the next half-inning, or on running to first in case the ball is fair, or whatever. The focus isn't always right.

I couldn't approve more of what Randolph did last night. SO reminiscent of what Gil Hodges did almost exactly 38 years ago to Cleon Jones, when Jones loafed going after a hit in left field. In the middle of the inning, Hodges went out to the outfield and simply removed Jones -- his best hitter -- from the game. Kept him out of the line-up for several days after that, too, until Jones said his leg (which Jones had used as an excuse for why he didn't go hard after the ball) was feeling better. Here's a great Youtube from a 2003 discussion of that play, in which Mets' coach Joe Pignatano and Joan Hodges talk about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8925XnLB4Q

Enjoy.

I must be blinded by my Jose Reyes fanboyism because I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about. Reyes seems to run hard all the time simply because his speed is so great that he can make a routine play difficult. I am not saying you guys are wrong because it seems like all of you guys are agreeing with each other but this isn't something that is regularly mentioned in chatter.

Cox pulled Andruw in mid-inning once, in 98 I think, for jaking it.

This was after previous warnings and admonishments.

Maybe Reyes takes the lesson as well as did Jones, although I hope not well enough to get the Mets home in first.

I must be the blinded by my Jose Reyes' fanboyism because I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about.

Russlan, watch him after an AB when he misses a pitch he thinks he should have hit, especially when he's ahead in the count or it's a big situation. His first reaction -- even more regularly than a lot of hitters -- is NOT to just run all-out to first. It's to express his frustration with himself. THEN he runs and hustles. That's what I mean about a lack of the right focus. The same was true, taking a different form, when Dale Scott called him out on the steal attempt, and he had his temper tantrum. Argue it, fine. Then move on. He's thinking about the last thing, not the next thing. Last night, he wasn't thinking about running to first when he should have been. Had he focused correctly, I have little doubt it would have been all-out. But he didn't, and that's a problem Randolph was right to nail him for.

It's funny, the Nationals announcers practically started making out with each other yesterday in their attempts to floridly praise Ryan Braun for running all-out after his 2 home runs. I never get why announcers care so much about the appearance of hustle. Whether a guy runs out a pop or not can't be that big of a deal (in terms of runs over the course of a season). I guess it depends on the type of player you are (ie, a bigger deal if you don't run all-out all the time if you are a slap hitter rather than a power hitter) but I generally couldn't care less about all this stuff. It just seems like an excuse to bash good players.

That said, if your manager specifically asks you to run all-out every play, I guess you should do it (unless you would be risking injury by doing that).

Watching that play, I got the impression that Reyes knew the ball would roll foul not because he didn't want to run, but because he learned how balls on the margins roll in BP. I mean, that's the sort of stuff he tests prior to games, so I can't help but assume he knew the ball was going to roll -- it just didn't. This isn't to excuse him for not running the ball out, only to account for his evident confusion as to what happened. If he'd tested the grounds and thought it would've rolled fair, he would've ran. When they showed the look on Reyes' face, it wasn't frustration, but disbelief.

As for those who say this problem is endemic, I can't disagree more strongly. On occasion, Reyes is frustrated as Sam M. describes, but I've watched nearly every game the past three years -- Saturdays excluded, because of the blackouts -- and I can only recall one instance in which Wright carried the bat halfway down the line, and then the play last week when the first baseman threw to second instead of stepping on the bag. Maybe the fanboy's getting the best of me; then again, fanboyism probably means I be more irate than the casual fan at the occasional lapse.

Joe:

See, I don't think managers expect a player to go "all out" on EVERY play. What they EXPECT is a player to give a good faith effort. There is a difference between hurtling oneself around the field and giving a concerted, legitimate effort on each and every play while ALSO pushing it when necessary.

Most, most mind you, decent managers understand and can see the difference. And it's a basic expectation. Alas, over the 90's what folks began to see creep into the game was the need to appear indifferent, for lack of a better word, to the action. Meaning that if it you thought it was a home run you ASSUMED it was a home run and began the pose at the batters box leading to how many different times you witnessed a player stop at first on a shot off the fence? Or the straightforward ground ball to short and doing the carry the bat why bother routine only WHOOPS the fielder muffs it but it's too late for the batter to accelerate so he still gets nailed on first.

THAT'S the stuff that a manager HAS to address. Only some didn't. And wouldn't.

Bobby Cox said enough. Tony LaRussa has been saying "Not on my watch" forever. Luckily it appears that common sense will prevail.

I think the success of teams like the Angels, the Marlins with McKeon, the Cardinals, and the White Sox all demonstrated that good teams typically have an edge to them.

Fortunately for some of us, an edgeless, atypical team does get to win once in a while.