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Tuesday, September 16, 2008

N.Y. Sun: Goldman: Yankees Must Be Patient With Problematic Cano

Or as Cano the Elder once said..."Patience is the greatest of all virtuoso-so.”

In some weird inversion of Mae West’s “When I’m good, I’m very good, but when I’m bad I’m better,” when Cano is very good he isn’t really all that good, and when he’s bad he’s terrible. Cano’s utter lack of interest in working the count or taking ball four, when combined with his streaky results, so-so power, and lack of speed, means that even at his best he makes a ton of outs and doesn’t get on base all that often compared to the average player. The results are still above average, especially when compared with your typical second baseman, but the results are also deceptive and prone to being overrated. When Cano slumps, he’s worse than a cup of hot hemlock for the offense. Compare him to a Yankee at the opposite extreme of the patience spectrum, Jason Giambi. Giambi might slump and bat .200 for a few weeks, but due to his walks he’ll still reach base in more than a third of his plate appearances, and one of those two hits in 10 that he gets will be a home run. When Cano slumps, as he has unfortunately shown for the whole season, he has no redeeming features at bat. With .238/.264/.327 rates with runners on base, Cano has killed more rallies than a Brezhnev-era Warsaw Pact tank crew on a Saturday night in downtown Prague. Though Cano will likely rebound from this season and hit .300 again, there will always be a hard ceiling on his offensive abilities.

Repoz Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM | 29 comment(s)
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   1. Edmundo is Super Average Man  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 09:38 AM (#2943410)
Cano has killed more rallies than a Brezhnev-era Warsaw Pact tank crew on a Saturday night in downtown Prague.

Zing! I wonder how long Goldman's been sitting on that one waiting for the right opportunity. :)
   2. Cowboy Popup  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 09:39 AM (#2943411)
when Cano is very good he isn’t really all that good

I'd like to see some support for this statement. Like anything to suggest Cano wasn't really all that good in 2006 and 2007.

Cano’s utter lack of interest in working the count or taking ball four, when combined with his streaky results, so-so power, and lack of speed, means that even at his best he makes a ton of outs and doesn’t get on base all that often compared to the average player.

Except in 2006 and 2007, when he was 24 and 15 points above league average in getting on base.

When Cano slumps, he’s worse than a cup of hot hemlock for the offense. Compare him to a Yankee at the opposite extreme of the patience spectrum, Jason Giambi. Giambi might slump and bat .200 for a few weeks, but due to his walks he’ll still reach base in more than a third of his plate appearances, and one of those two hits in 10 that he gets will be a home run.

Yes, Cano is a worse hitter than the guy who has been one of the (guessing) ten best hitters in the AL over the last decade and has almost unparalled plate discipline.

With .238/.264/.327 rates with runners on base, Cano has killed more rallies than a Brezhnev-era Warsaw Pact tank crew on a Saturday night in downtown Prague.

That's pretty funny.

Though Cano will likely rebound from this season and hit .300 again, there will always be a hard ceiling on his offensive abilities.

Just like 95% of all other players. We get it, he's only as good as his batting average. But he's been unlucky this year in that regard and he's capable of (although he hasn't exactly done it this year) of being a very good defensive second baseman. He is still a valuable commodity, even with this lousy, lousy year, he's just not a franchise player. Next year he'll be 26.
   3. Swoboda is freedom  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:07 AM (#2943440)
With .238/.264/.327 rates with runners on base, Cano has killed more rallies than a Brezhnev-era Warsaw Pact tank crew on a Saturday night in downtown Prague.

That's pretty funny.


And Jeter has been hotter than Jan Palach in Wenceslas Square.
   4. Edmundo is Super Average Man  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:26 AM (#2943451)
And Jeter has been hotter than Jan Palach in Wenceslas Square.

Nothing is more frustrating than a Pat Burrell Czech swing on strike 3.
   5. Big Red Basketball (NJ)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:30 AM (#2943456)
Goldman really, really hates Cano.
   6. Swoboda is freedom  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:45 AM (#2943469)
Nothing is more frustrating than a Pat Burrell Czech swing on strike 3.

Don't worry, it was only a Prague Spring Training game.
   7. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:52 AM (#2943478)
The Yankees should trade Cano for Eric Byrnes and sign Orlando Hudson to play 2b
That's the heart & soul of last year's best NL team right there
And it allows them to get rid of a clubhouse cancer
   8. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:54 AM (#2943480)
Goldman seems to think Cano's Hus is cooked.
   9. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 10:57 AM (#2943486)
Max Kellerman on his ESPN radio show yesterday: "No punk 2Bman with sub-.300 OBP will ever play for my NY Yankees. I want Cano traded yesterday" [He also said Eli Manning is the best QB in all of football...]
   10. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM (#2943490)
No punk 2Bman with sub-.300 OBP will ever play for my NY Yankees.


this all-time Yankee great says hi
   11. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM (#2943491)
Those weren't Max Kellerman's NY Yankees.
   12. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM (#2943495)
Those weren't Max Kellerman's NY Yankees.

you're right--they were Mel Allen's
   13. Hack Wilson  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 11:30 AM (#2943517)
No punk 2Bman with sub-.300 OBP will ever play for my NY Yankees.


this all-time Yankee great says hi


Compared to Richardson's .299, Billy Martin's was .300-so he's in.
   14. Hal Chase Headley Lamarr Hoyt Wilhelm (ACE1242)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM (#2943526)
this all-time Yankee great says hi

Indeed. Just savor that 1961 batting line for a moment, if you will. Richardson usually led off and ran up 706 PA. Maris and Mantle, usually batting third and fourth, combined for 270 RBI. Of the 270, Richardson scored ... 80.
   15. Repoz  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 12:07 PM (#2943545)
Indeed. Just savor that 1961 batting line for a moment, if you will. Richardson usually led off and ran up 706 PA. Maris and Mantle, usually batting third and fourth, combined for 270 RBI. Of the 270, Richardson scored ... 80.

Slowly..I..burn...step..by..step..
   16. Edmundo is Super Average Man  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 12:14 PM (#2943552)
Repoz, give it up. The Yankees won the WS in 1961. Even if Richardson had a .400 OBP and scored 150 runs, the Yankees still would have won. :)

EDIT: For their WS rivals, the Reds, Don Blasingame had an OBP of .286, starting 110 games, 68 batting leadoff, 42 batting second. It was a 60s thing.
   17. Gaelan  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 12:17 PM (#2943554)
Max Kellerman on his ESPN radio show yesterday: "No punk 2Bman with sub-.300 OBP will ever play for my NY Yankees. I want Cano traded yesterday" [He also said Eli Manning is the best QB in all of football...]


I had satellite radio in a rental car for about a week in June. At that time Kellerman was arguing that Cano had been unlucky so far this season. I guess luck doesn't always even out.

That said his radio show is really good.
   18. villainx  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 12:57 PM (#2943602)
Did I miss Mr. Goldman's master plan for the Yankees embrace rebuilding or need to dismantle? And how does patience for Cano fit into the previous articles?

Not meant to be snarky. Just trying to see the different scenarios for the Yankee off season.
   19. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 01:15 PM (#2943624)
I agree that Cano's upside has a hard cap. But at this point, what can be done about it?

If the Yankees traded him now, it would be selling extremely low.
I don't think they have other internal 2B options; they'd have to acquire one.

I think you have to let him play; re-evaluate (and possibly trade) him during a .340 campaign.

I think this is a single bad year, not a cliff dive.
   20. Repoz  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 01:19 PM (#2943630)
Repoz, give it up. The Yankees won the WS in 1961. Even if Richardson had a .400 OBP and scored 150 runs, the Yankees still would have won. :)

I guess I cared about "my team' winning at the time...but what pissticked me off was constantly getting my ass kicked in Challenge the Yankees with the Richardson card leading off vs the NL All-Stars.

Richardson's .294 OBP against Vada Pinson's .347 was not very fair.
   21. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 02:22 PM (#2943687)
you had no time to play Challenge--you were too busy throwing cherry bombs under Mike Burke's ass
   22. SandyRiver  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 03:30 PM (#2943772)
Indeed. Just savor that 1961 batting line for a moment, if you will. Richardson usually led off and ran up 706 PA. Maris and Mantle, usually batting third and fourth, combined for 270 RBI. Of the 270, Richardson scored ... 80.

Not to be overly nitpicky but - M&M;actually batted in "only" 155 teammates (and Bobby was batted in 77x), and with the Mick on base for Roger over 230 times, I suspect lots of that 155 stayed within those two. (And Kubek batting 2nd got on nearly 200 times as well and was batted in 76 times.) Still, it's hard to understand how few times Richardson scored, given that he reached base about 250 times in front of all that thunder.
   23. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 03:48 PM (#2943799)
Still, it's hard to understand how few times Richardson scored, given that he reached base about 250 times in front of all that thunder.

he reached base 205 times in 1961
   24. what the hell, just use your initials or something  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 03:56 PM (#2943807)
with the Mick on base for Roger over 230 times

I'm pretty sure that Maris batted ahead of Mantle more often than not.
   25. karlmagnus  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 04:22 PM (#2943840)
They batted Richardson leadoff for a grand total of 9 stolen bases. Admittedly they didn't have an ideal leadoff; their best bet might have been Elston Howard, the best OBP outside the two Ms.
   26. Chip  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 04:28 PM (#2943849)
The Yankees should trade Cano for Eric Byrnes and sign Orlando Hudson to play 2b
That's the heart & soul of last year's best NL team right there
And it allows them to get rid of a clubhouse cancer


SI's Jon Heyman, on the air with Francesa this afternoon, said based on his conversations with Yankee brass that an off-season trade of Cano was possible, and suggested they could sign the O-Dog to replace him. The only thing missing was Byrnes!
   27. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 04:34 PM (#2943857)
The only thing missing was Byrnes!
Really? He was missing the entire season, as far as Dbacks fans are concerned. At least this fan wasn't missing him one bit...

I believe the Dbacks and Yankees discussed a trade involving Hudson and Cano a year or two back, but the Yankees didn't go for it. It's a shame Cashman is so stubborn. Hopefully he moves over and lets Hanky-Panky take over...
   28. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 04:37 PM (#2943859)
I don't know about Kellerman on baseball, but I used to love his boxing column for ESPN.com .
   29. The Yankee Clapper  Posted: September 16, 2008 at 04:37 PM (#2943860)
I'm pretty sure that Maris batted ahead of Mantle more often than not.

Correct. Mantle batted 4th with Maris in front of him. Maris hit his 61 HRs without drawing an intentional walk all season.
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