As much as I want to see the Mets struggle, it is sad to see the rapid decline of a once great player.

With the Braves in town and a near-lock to take (at least) two out of three from the Mets this weekend, it's going to be pretty ugly in NY by Monday. I might just skip this upcoming round of apocalyptic sports journalism.

You get the feeling something is going to come to a head soon. I'm not exactly sure what, though (I don't think it's Willie... yet).

Is there no bad contract the Mets could absorb from a non-contender?

How about a decent A-baller for Dmitri Young?

Based on some of the posts I have read on this site, as well as others, it's a shock the Mets are 11-10. I would have guessed like 8-13.

Even if he wasn't finished, Delgado couldn't hit lefties at all last year. It would have made sense to get a right-handed AAAA hitter to compliment Delgado, someone like Josh Phelps or Val Pascucci or Morgan Ensberg. Instead, the Mets assembled a bench of fourth outfielders and second basemen.

Interesting that Marchman thinks that Delgado gets beat on the outside more. In the limited ABs I seen him at, he was consistently getting beaten by the fastball/slider inside, which is why I thought he was toast.
Anyway, he always does well against the Braves, so this series should be good for him.

The only way to erase last season is to blow out the division. That's not happening, and the Phillies are playing Pittsburgh this weekend, so it will be very ugly by Monday. Firing Randolph would also bring some closure, of course. Perhaps the best-case scenario is for the divisional contenders to all be around .500 by mid-June, for Randolph to get fired, and for the Mets to go on a tear under someone like Larry Bowa or another manager of the sort who can light a fire under a team in the short term.

someone like Larry Bowa

Do. Not. Want.

Firing Randolph would also bring some closure, of course. Perhaps the best-case scenario is for the divisional contenders to all be around .500 by mid-June, for Randolph to get fired

I know the front offices and situations are completely different... but I keep thinking back to the 42-game mark in 1990 when Davey got fired.

The difference is that Davey Johnson was a good manager. Randolph has had enough chance already to prove that he's not.

The difference is that Davey Johnson was a good manager. Randolph has had enough chance already to prove that he's not.

Actually I shouldn't have said the situations were completely different; there are some parallels. Each manager was/is two years removed from a division title and a disappointing playoff run (followed each time by a disappointing non-playoff season); each had/has a shaky relationship with management; each had/has a team that was/is expected to do much more.

Obviously the Mets were not happy with 20-22 in 1990, and I can't imagine they're happy with 7-9 against the non-Nationals now (or that they'll be happy after a likely trip to the woodshed this weekend).

Not saying that the Mets will also can Willie if they're 20-22 after 42; all analogies break down at some point... just that history tells us it could maybe perhaps be later than we think for him.

Mets are stuck with Delgado. Too bad there hasn't been a single 1B/DH type out there looking for a team all year.

the Mets assembled a bench of fourth outfielders

That's the nicest thing anyone has said about Brady Clark all year.

Obviously the Mets were not happy with 20-22 in 1990, and I can't imagine they're happy with 7-9 against the non-Nationals now (or that they'll be happy after a likely trip to the woodshed this weekend).

So now we can just take out some wins off their record?

Good to see your skipping the upcoming round of apocalyptic sports journalism by already writing them off this weekend.

Edit: The Braves, who we have no chance against this weekend, are 8-8 vs the non-Nationals this year.

Matt LaPorta is hitting .301/.391/.630 at Double A Huntsville with 22 rbi in 73 at bats. Of course he's playing outfield.

But.................

Well, the good news is that this weekend's Sean Bell verdict riots will dominate the local news coverage. In fact, with bad weather expected much of the weekend in NYC, the riots might have to be postponed until Monday or Tuesday, which would be even better from a team PR standpoint.

So now we can just take out some wins off their record?

I'm sure the front office isn't thrilled with the route they've taken to 11-10 either.

Good to see your skipping the upcoming round of apocalyptic sports journalism by already writing them off this weekend.

Hope for the best, expect the worst. If the Mets take two of three given the pitching matchups, it will indeed be impressive.

I was just talking to a buddy in Florida about Delgado and Giambi's name came up in the conversation. It's an obscene amount of money being paid to the 1B in our fair city for the production, isn't it?

Mike Jacobs is slugging .614 right now. The way that Delgado ended up on the Mets is beyond dumb.

I was just talking to a buddy in Florida about Delgado and Giambi's name came up in the conversation. It's an obscene amount of money being paid to the 1B in our fair city for the production, isn't it?

Your buddy in Florida ought to know that Delgado is the highest-paid player on the Marlins payroll this season, as well. $4M I believe.

Mike Jacobs as a Marlin: .265/.320/.479
Delgado as a Met: .257/.343/.481

Jacobs last 365 days:.265 /.306/.483
Delgado last 365 days: .257/.335/.444

Not much difference is there?
Of course Jacobs is dirt cheap in MLB terms and Delgado is not
and if Petit works out...

I believe you mean "if Anibal Sanchez works out..."

Petit was already traded for Jorge Julio.

Matt LaPorta is hitting .301/.391/.630 at Double A Huntsville with 22 rbi in 73 at bats. Of course he's playing outfield.

Oh yeah?

21 yo Mike Carp is hitting .420/.461/.691
22 yo Nick Evans is hitting .338/.376/.597
23 yo Danny Murphy is hitting .398/.441/.530

All are in Double A Binghamton. Carp and Evans are both 1B, Murphy is a 3B, but all 3 have been rotating through 4 corners and DH. Both Goldstein and Manuel think Murphy is the best hitter of the three. Carp has the most power, this season flashing a heretofore unseen ability to hit lefties. He got injured last year and apparently got in the organization’s doghouse for coming back out of shape, but he is most certainly back in the house now. I am hoping he can be another Jacobs. But none of these three will be called up. It’s just not the Mets way. In that sense, the Mets are “stuck” with Delgado only as long as they choose to be.

Of course Jacobs is dirt cheap in MLB terms and Delgado is not

Of course, that only matters to the Mets if the $$$ they spent on Delgado have kept them from acquiring a player or players they otherwise would have, and if that player would have been an upgrade on what they had or have at that other position. The fact is, Delgado has been better than Jacobs, to date. And although Omar operates on a budget, and the Mets' spending is not endless, it is pretty speculative to know what he would have done (and whether it would have been productive) with the extra money had he not spent it on the difference between Jacobs and Delgado.

Slightly off-topic, but I need to vent...loudly.

7 of the Mets' 10 losses are directly attributable to homers surrendered to the following legendary "sluggers":

Robert Andino
Kelly Johnson
Gabe Kapler
Pedro Feliz
Felix Pie
Ronny Cedeno
Felipe Lopez

1 walk-off, 2 grand slams. All shots which either broke ties, changed leads or turned close games into blowouts.

That's all I need to know about this blowpen.

Mario Mendoza would have a couple of taters off this bunch.

Thank you.

Venting complete.

With the Braves in town and a near-lock to take (at least) two out of three from the Mets this weekend...

I can see why as angsty Mets fans we'd think this, but, er, why specifically is this a near-lock as a lost series?

Thanks to Repoz for the Freihofer reference.

When I was a wee prat Freihofer had home delivery with horse-drawn wagons. But then at some point (late '50s?) their territory got too big, they switched to trucks. The drivers hated the switch, because they'd always been able to do their paperwork for the day on the road back to the stable; the horses knew the way. Trucks aren't that smart. Of course, now Freihofer sells all the way down here to NYC, and they've ruined most of their products, so I haven't bought any of their stuff in years.

And I'm sad about Thin Carlos.

I can see why as angsty Mets fans we'd think this, but, er, why specifically is this a near-lock as a lost series?

Pitching matchups, mostly. Braves are throwing their two best against the Mets (plus somebody the Mets have never faced, which is rarely good with this team), and the Mets are throwing their two worst (both of whom are due for a stinker at some point). Plus the Mets are in a real bad way right now, and between early last year and early this year it's seemed the Braves elevate their game a bit for the Mets.

Like I said, the Mets taking two of three would be impressive. I think it would mean their bats clicked against the rook tonight, and they got to the Braves' bullpen at some point over the weekend.

I would still do the Delgado trade. It gave us a legit chance to win the 2006 WS.

Delgado had more VORP in 06 than Jacobs has had in his career. He had more VORP in 07 than Jacobs has had in a single season (guessing that changes this year.)

Of course, maybe we are losing out on a legit chance to win the WS this year because we have Delgado and not Jacobs, but I have a feeling Jacobs will end up having a similar season to what he has the last few years.
And I think we will have a guy like Dunn or Tex playing first base next year anyway.

7 of the Mets' 10 losses are directly attributable to homers surrendered to the following legendary "sluggers":

Robert Andino
Kelly Johnson
Gabe Kapler
Pedro Feliz
Felix Pie
Ronny Cedeno
Felipe Lopez

1 walk-off, 2 grand slams. All shots which either broke ties, changed leads or turned close games into blowouts.

That's all I need to know about this blowpen.

Mario Mendoza would have a couple of taters off this bunch.

Not just the bullpen, Sosa and Heilman have given up what, 6 of those 7?

and between early last year and early this year it's seemed the Braves elevate their game a bit for the Mets.

Why does only early last year count? Mets won 5 of the last 6 against the Braves, and split the season series. I guess they weren't elevating their game then.

I will predict the Mets take 2 out of 3.

Almost afraid to know the answer, but how many grand slams have there been in the bigs this year?

3 of those were grand slams, weren't they? KJ, Cedeno and Lopez.

Of course it would help if Sosa and Heilman didn't pitch in 60% of the games.

I think there have been 4 grand slams in the NL this year.

Why does only early last year count? Mets won 5 of the last 6 against the Braves, and split the season series. I guess they weren't elevating their game then.

They weren't. For whatever reason the bubble burst on their season a couple weeks after the Tex trade. By the time that first September series rolled around they played like a completely different team than the one the Mets had seen in each previous series.

I will predict the Mets take 2 out of 3.

Hope you're right.

3 of those were grand slams, weren't they? KJ, Cedeno and Lopez.

I think you're right.

3 of those were grand slams, weren't they? KJ, Cedeno and Lopez

You are correct, sir. Damn sausage fingers...

They weren't. For whatever reason the bubble burst on their season a couple weeks after the Tex trade. By the time that first September series rolled around they played like a completely different team than the one the Mets had seen in each previous series.

That seems like justification after the fact, because they lost. if the Braves win, its because they step up their game. If the Mets do, well then the Braves bubble had burst. When the Mets went to Atlanta at the end of August, the Braves were 4.5 back. They were definitely in the race.

That seems like justification after the fact, because they lost. if the Braves win, its because they step up their game. If the Mets do, well then the Braves bubble had burst. When the Mets went to Atlanta at the end of August, the Braves were 4.5 back. They were definitely in the race.

I'm not trying to explain or qualify anything; it simply was what it was. They were ice cold when the Mets got to them in September, and they had been for a couple weeks. And based on the two games between the teams this year and just watching the Braves in general, right now they seem much more reminiscent of the team last year that always had an answer against the Mets than the one that was pressing from mid-August to mid-September.

Again, I'd be glad to be wrong, and I hope you're right. I'd love to come back on Sunday night or Monday and concede the point, because that would mean it was a good weekend. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Even if he wasn't finished, Delgado couldn't hit lefties at all last year. It would have made sense to get a right-handed AAAA hitter to compliment Delgado, someone like Josh Phelps or Val Pascucci or Morgan Ensberg. Instead, the Mets assembled a bench of fourth outfielders and second basemen.

How true this is... The fact that the Mets didn't pick up a solid righty 1B/OF bat for the bench was simply mind-boggling. When Alou comes back, you've got to hit Delgado 7th (assuming Castillo is 2nd and Schneider 8th) and hope that he can give you something.

21 yo Mike Carp is hitting .420/.461/.691
22 yo Nick Evans is hitting .338/.376/.597
23 yo Danny Murphy is hitting .398/.441/.530

Shouldn't at least one of them get sent to New Orleans? It's not as if there's anybody there blocking them there - the Mets' AAA team seems to be one of the most pointless things in baseball as it currently stands.

I'm not trying to explain or qualify anything; it simply was what it was. They were ice cold when the Mets got to them in September, and they had been for a couple weeks.

Multiple endpoints, but the Braves had won 5 of 7 before the Mets series. They played 500 ball for the 2 weeks before that. Semantics I guess; but I don't call that ice cold.

What would you have said before that 3 game series in Atlanta last year? That the Mets were going to win at least 2 of 3 cause they (the Braves) were ice cold, or that the Braves would win the series "because they always seem to step it up against the Mets"?

Multiple endpoints, but the Braves had won 5 of 7 before the Mets series. They played 500 ball for the 2 weeks before that. Semantics I guess; but I don't call that ice cold.

Zuh? Just looking at their schedule, they were 3-4 in the 7 before the Mets began their sweep, which was part of a 5-9 record in their previous 14 (two weeks). Maybe we're thinking of different series?

What would you have said before that 3 game series in Atlanta last year? That the Mets were going to win at least 2 of 3 cause they (the Braves) were ice cold, or that the Braves would win the series "because they always seem to step it up against the Mets"?

Actually I felt the Mets would have a good series, because the four-game Philly series had been ridiculously, absurdly bad.

I would still do the Delgado trade. It gave us a legit chance to win the 2006 WS.

Delgado had more VORP in 06 than Jacobs has had in his career. He had more VORP in 07 than Jacobs has had in a single season (guessing that changes this year.)

Of course, maybe we are losing out on a legit chance to win the WS this year because we have Delgado and not Jacobs, but I have a feeling Jacobs will end up having a similar season to what he has the last few years.
And I think we will have a guy like Dunn or Tex playing first base next year anyway.

It's no so much that the Mets should have held on to Jacobs- but 1B had been a black hole for 2+ years for the Mets- it was a problem- and Omar seemingly tried to solve it by finding teh most expensive short term solution he could think of.

2006- Delgado had a VORp of 35.2 which handily beat Jacobs as you point out, but Nick Johnson, who was available and was offered to the Mets, and would have cost no more in terms of talent and far less in terms of cash- and he had a Vorp of 51.0 in 2006, and is/was a hell of a lot better defensively.

Of course Nick was and is completely unreliable from a health standpoint (which didn't stop Omar from acquiring Alou to play LF)

Overbay also out Vorped Delgado that year, and he was available- in fact he was also traded taht winter

AND I still remember the guy I wanted the Mets to go for at the time- Adrian Gonzalez- he was available- and was traded a month or two after the Delgado deal.


Did Omar explore any of these options (or ones we have little way of knowing about?)
I heard Omar on the FAN brush off a Nick Johnson trade rumor (he didn't deny that Johnson had been offered- if I recall correctly- he said he had no interest in Johnson because he didn't fit the Mets needs)

He FIXATED on Delgado to the exclusion of all other options- something he has done before- something we can expect he will do again. One columnist said it's like Omar has a checklist, and come hell or high water he will go through that checklist one at time, never doing anything until the "top" item is resolved the way Omar wants- no matetr what else, what ever opportunity comes up in the meantime

Zuh? Just looking at their schedule, they were 3-4 in the 7 before the Mets began their sweep, which was part of a 6-9 record in their previous 14 (two weeks). Maybe we're thinking of different series?

No. I was just being an idiot. I don't know what I was looking at. My fault.

Actually I felt the Mets would have a good series, because the four-game Philly series had been ridiculously, absurdly bad.

Well then fair enough. Thats all I will say about that series because I don't want to think about that trip to Philly anymore.

He FIXATED on Delgado to the exclusion of all other options- something he has done before- something we can expect he will do again. One columnist said it's like Omar has a checklist, and come hell or high water he will go through that checklist one at time, never doing anything until the "top" item is resolved the way Omar wants- no matetr what else, what ever opportunity comes up in the meantime

This is a fair criticism of Omar.

But I think I would rather have had Delgado than both Johnson and Overbay. Overbay was horrible last year. Delgado had a 103 OPS+ and we were concerned about out first base production; Overbay had an 85.

Johnson had a hell of an 06 but I wouldn't really want to count on him.

Adrian Gonzalez is a different story, of course.

No. I was just being an idiot. I don't know what I was looking at. My fault.

No worries.

Well then fair enough. Thats all I will say about that series because I don't want to think about that trip to Philly anymore.

Agreed, and again, I really hope I get to concede the argument come Sunday. Hopefully the Mets take two of three just to make me look like a dope.

But I think I would rather have had Delgado than both Johnson and Overbay. Overbay was horrible last year. Delgado had a 103 OPS+ and we were concerned about out first base production; Overbay had an 85.

I tend to over value younger players a bit I suppose, and also being a life long Mets fans I am especially leery of post 30 veterans coming here. (George Foster/Alomar etc...)
For a guy whose initial MLB non-playing background was player development, I find Omar's approach to be rather surprising, he seems to prefer older guys, guys in their 30s, and seemingly has no appreciation of the aging curve*, he's obviously not as bad as Sabean, but he's bad enough to be disconcerting to a fan of a team that's been burned quite a bit when veterans have dived.


* Yes I know, very few individual players follow the so-called aging curve, but when you have or start adding a 31 year old catcher, 36 year old 1B, 32 year old 2B, 31 year old CF, 38 year old supersub, 35 year old back up C, 34 year old PH deluxe, who collectively eat up 50%+ of the team's PAs- you can almost guarantee that that group's COLLECTIVE performance is going to decline from the year before an decline again next year.

I tend to over value younger players a bit I suppose,

Ah, the anti-Randolph. Be careful; if you come into contact with Willie, I believe the resulting explosion will obliterate all time and space across several light-years.

Ah, the anti-Randolph.

I believe we call them Bosons.

The worst part about the Delgado situation was Omar completely ####### up the negotiations to sign Delgado as a FA. Instead of not playing the race card and just throwing in a few more million, Omar decided to let him go to the Marlins. Then he decided he had to have Delgado regardless of the price after the first year of Delgado's contract, which was obviously going to be his best year or one of the best years of the contract. Omar's #### ups ended up costing the Mets Delgado in 2005 and Jacobs and Petit, which were two very valuable chits at the time.

Adrian Gonzalez is a different story, of course.

Remember when he was offered in a trade for Benitez if the Mets paid Benitez's contract but Duquette decided that he would rather have 2 mil? Omar only seems like a good GM because he followed Duquette who was literally the worst GM in MLB history.

Remember when he was offered in a trade for Benitez if the Mets paid Benitez's contract but Duquette decided that he would rather have 2 mil?

I vaguely remember some kind of story like that; was it for Gonzalez? Geez.