Wow, talk about misrepresenting someone just to be a prick.

It's the height of irony for someone for whom "these types of issues" crop up every time he interacts with white people outside his circle to hector other people about their racial attitudes. The irony is probably lost here, but it's plain as day.

I didn't say anything of the sort. Once again your extreme perspective on the subject leaves no room for others' self-aware honesty.

"These types of issues" certainly don't crop up every time I interact with white people outside of my circle.

What I said is that when I have had a particularly tough day or week and don't want to put up with bothersome ignorance on race like what you have just said, I have found in my experience it is wise to avoid certain demographics of people. It's playing percentages in the same way that crossing the street when someone is running in your direction with a weapon is.

Perhaps you should check if you are projecting your universalizing of your experience and attitudes. I'm not the one who is misrepresenting what others say to support my own views on the subject.

Asian people can't drive. Can't we all just agree on something?

Once again your extreme perspective on the subject leaves no room for others' self-aware honesty.

It's the height of irony for someone who admits avoiding white people, believing that if he doesn't he'll be subjected to "bothersome ignorance on race," to accuse a person who's never had thoughts close to this or ever avoided groups of people, of being "extreme."

So you are saying that white folks are just as likely to be able to empathize and have similar experiences as people who are identified as the same ethnicity?

Wow, that's not "irony", that's just ignorance. Race is a construct and an illusion, but one with real significance.

Isn't it fascinating that we had a perfectly reasonable discussion on the last thread, and now suddenly I'm being blindsided here. You are exactly the type of person I am trying to avoid at parties ;P...

Doesn't it seem a little presumptuous to say, "The way you deal with racial privilege when you are exhausted is wrong, wrong wrong!" and not even provide an alternative.

What would you suggest I do instead?

It's the height of irony for someone who admits avoiding white people, believing that if he doesn't he'll be subjected to "bothersome ignorance on race," to accuse a person who's never had thoughts close to this or ever avoided groups of people, of being "extreme."

Incidentally, you are 0 for 2 in reading comprehension. Don't worry, I'm not drawing any conclusions about the great white race here, just you.

I admitted at times avoiding starting conversations with whites because I knew for a fact it was statistically less likely I would have to deal with racial ignorance. Did I deal with racial ignorance from Asian Americans, and African Americans, and every other imaginable imaginary group? Sure. But I was playing percentages, not making extreme statements.

Along the same lines, after a horrible experience dating a wonderful girl who happened to be Caucasian, the issue of race did us in. I decided to not pursue relationships with white girls for awhile because I didn't want to be hurt in the same way.

What conclusions do you draw from that? Going ahead, make yourself look like even more of an idiot :P...

Oh, by the way, it's a real brave move to misrepresent others personal histories to attack them while sharing nothing of yourself. That's always a great way to spot a real hero in a crowd, right?

"would you make assumptions about a guy with a running chainsaw walking toward you on the street"

But he has Bud Light!

Asian people can't drive. Can't we all just agree on something?

Well, that would explain the traffic this morning.

Race is a construct and an illusion, but one with real significance.

Actually, genetic research is starting to call into question the "race is a social construct" meme. Not that it matters much for our purposes.

Like cleaves to like, and the outsider is to be shunned. Where we can't rely on "race' to divide us, we rely on tribes, or castes, or religion, or sect, or whatever else is handy. The English got by just by using "class distinctions" for ages.

The degree and nature of separateness, animosity, and inter-group friction changes from place to place and time to time. When you are in the oppressed group -- which can mean minority or majority, depending on how the levers of power are distributed -- you will view the whole thing quite differently from one who is benefiting from the set up.

Sheffield brings a perspective into his interactions with people that is going to be very different from the perspective Joe Torre would bring, or that Derek Jeter would bring. As a result, there is probably a little bit of Rashomon at work here.

there is probably a little bit of Rashomon at work here.

Srul, have I told you lately how much I love you(r perspective)? Sorry, that song's playing in my head. The sentiment is real.

SBB --

While I did mention you at the beginning of the post, "most people", "they", and "them" should have indicated that I was generalizing about people who cannot square "Torre treated Sheffield differently because he's Black" and "Joe Torre is not a racist". From what you've written in this thread, your opinion appears to be that those two statements are mutually exclusive. Several of us here disagree and have quoted sociological studies to back our opinion.

I wouldn't have even put your initials in there if I didn't think your argument was well-made and represented the underlying 'philosophy' behind the Sheffield doubting -- which certainly is reasonable and well above the "Sheffield's just a crazy Negro" meme.

I think you are wrong, but I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I certainly have my blind spots.

I do hope you can get past any personality conflict and seriously consider the arguments and evidence given here. If I didn't think you were a reasonable person, I would not even have bothered responding.

This is not about winning an argument or one-upping somebody to me. Again, if I've insulted you, I beg your pardon.

Peace.