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Tuesday, January 22, 2008

N.Y. Sun: Clemente’s No. 21 May Be Retired From Play

And Tex Clevenger sez..."Ooo-eee! I’m piggy-backin’ that!”

Hispanic baseball pioneer Roberto Clemente’s uniform number 21 will be retired from use by all 30 teams in Major League Baseball if the New York City Council has its way.

The council will debate a resolution today calling on the commissioner of baseball, Allan “Bud” Selig, to permanently set aside Clemente’s number in honor of the player’s achievements on and off the field.

..."I’m supporting it because Roberto Clemente is a major hero with the Latino community,” a co-sponsor of the resolution calling for his number to be retired, Council Member Joel Rivera, said yesterday. “While Jackie Robinson represents so much to our community, we have to recognize that so does Roberto Clemente.”

Council Member Michael Nelson, another co-sponsor of the resolution, defended the Council’s role in stepping up to the plate for Clemente.

“It’s not important of course as saving people in Darfur,” Mr. Nelson said. “But it is something we can express our feelings on. I think all legislative bodies get involved with these kinds of activities occasionally.”

Repoz Posted: January 22, 2008 at 12:05 AM | 28 comment(s)
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1. JJ1986 Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:25 AM (#2673517)

The best way to honor Clemente is to let players where the number in honor of him. Of course, that makes too much sense for politicians.

2. Reed's Johnson Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:28 AM (#2673519)

This is all a clever ruse to eliminate the use of Clemens' number, his legacy being tainted and all. They're hiding behind Clemente. At least that's the rumour I'm starting.

3. Halofan Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:29 AM (#2673521)

The idea of a legislature "expressing our feelings" is just dumb.

4. McCoy Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:35 AM (#2673524)

I hope they don't retire 21, if they do they will kill my dream of one day wearing number 21 while I take the field for the Chicago Cubs during their World Series run. Granted that is never gonna happen but if they take 21 away that is just one more nail in the coffin.

Personally I think somebody should go up to these frauds and actually quiz them on how much they actually know about Roberto. I'm betting this is all posturing.

5. Jose Can Jussi Jokinen (Justin T) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:35 AM (#2673525)

There was an article espousing this idea in the last Baseball Research Journal. I found its arguments to be unconvincing. The article seemed to try and make its point by denigrating Jackie Robinson as opposed to promoting Clemente. Retiring Clemente's number across the league would be similar to instituting the Wild Card in that it would cheapen the honor bestowed on Robinson just as the Wild Card cheapens a division championship.

6. Foster Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:41 AM (#2673528)

The best way to honor Clemente is to let players where the number in honor of him.

I don't wanna be starting something here...but I feel the same way about #42.

If the Dodgers want to retire his number, great. But I never liked the MLB edict across all teams. I think guys should be able to wear 42 if they want.

7. Master of the small sample size Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:42 AM (#2673529)

Two down, 98 to go. Might as well keep tackling those factors of 42.

8. Cooper Nielson Posted: January 22, 2008 at 01:47 AM (#2673532)

I know this issue has come up in years past and we've discussed it here, but I just don't get it.

What did Clemente do that warrants this? He was a great player and a great man, but you could say that about hundreds of former players. He's in the Hall of Fame, which is a pretty big reward already.

Clemente wasn't the first Latino player. He wasn't the first Puerto Rican player. I suppose he might have been the first Latino star, though Cuban Minnie Minoso had already played in 3 All-Star Games and finished 4th in the MVP voting three times before Clemente made his MLB debut. So basically it seems like Clemente's claim to fame is that he is the "favorite" of the Latino (Puerto Rican?) community.

Does that mean that Ichiro Suzuki, Sandy Koufax, Chan Ho Park and, heck, Dave Nilsson will one day deserve the same treatment?

9. booond Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:01 AM (#2673536)

Does that mean that Ichiro Suzuki, Sandy Koufax, Chan Ho Park and, heck, Dave Nilsson will one day deserve the same treatment?

Hank Greenberg instead of Koufax.

I love Clemente as much as the next guy but what Jackie did broke the ice for Clemente and many Latin players. He made it a little easier for everyone after him.

10. Sawney Snows Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:02 AM (#2673538)

Dave Nilsson

I'd nominate Graeme Lloyd instead. That way, you can knock out 17, 27, 37, and 47 at once.

11. Benji Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:09 AM (#2673540)

Please don't do this. I always wore 21 when I could choose my number (having derived it from a complex combination of every number in my life: address, license #, favorite player in each sport...) so I always enjoy seeing a major leaguer wearing "my number". I loved Clemente as a player, and have huge admiration for him as a man, but #21 needs to be circulated.

12. Howie Menckel Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:09 AM (#2673541)

I'd split the difference.

To equate him with Jackie is absurd, but so too is the presumably humorous Suzuki, Nilsson, etc.

Some of my first Topps cards (I had the one mom in a million who didn't throw them out) were of "Bob Clemente," about midway thru his career, if that helps any.

13. McCoy Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:26 AM (#2673544)

I loved Clemente as a player, and have huge admiration for him as a man, but #21 needs to be circulated.

I was thrilled when they ran Sosa out of town on a rail. It meant that his number wouldn't be retired here in Chicago.

14. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 22, 2008 at 02:36 AM (#2673549)

Queen Beatrix says Bert got screwed again.

15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 08:31 AM (#2673581)

"I'd split the difference."

By retiring 10.5?

16. Run Joe Run (Illonardo) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 09:17 AM (#2673589)

I have offered this before.... The Roberto Clemente Award is really a great way to honor him. If MLB made a bigger deal out of that, it would truly honor Clemente's charitable character. Have ESPN do a 30 minute special each year right before Spring Training - give a few minute spot on each of the nominees. That would be great.

17. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: January 22, 2008 at 09:27 AM (#2673591)

We German-Americans demand that this player's number be retired, whatever the heck it was.
I think RJR is spot on.
Question: is it a constitutional duty of legistlative bodies to grandstand and pander? They sure act that way.

18. Belfry Bob Posted: January 22, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2673629)

How can these guys keep a straight face when they even bring this up?

It's easy to see how politicians are so much like ballplayers...so many of both are blessed with a lack of self-awareness.

19. Deadball... With the Power To Melt People's Faces Posted: January 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM (#2673649)

While I'm sure that none of those clowns have any idea, Clemente already has received an honor that nobody else had and certainly nobody will in the future: the waiting period for the HOF was waived for him and he went in immediately after his death.

Considering what everybody's like about that joint, that honor's a lot harder to come by than getting your number retired.

20. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 10:54 AM (#2673661)

Fernando Mateo is clearly wishcasting himself as the Hispanic Al Sharpton. Consider:

"We believe that one African-American should not get all of the merits of having his number retired," Mr. Mateo said in a phone interview yesterday. "I think it's an honor that should be shared with the Hispanic community and we should be able to honor the ballplayer that fought for our civil rights within the game, struggled during his entire career to send a message of equality, a man that was compassionate, a man that had much better records and statistics than Jackie Robinson."

What an a s s.

21. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 22, 2008 at 10:57 AM (#2673664)

Clemente already has received an honor that nobody else had and certainly nobody will in the future: the waiting period for the HOF was waived for him and he went in immediately after his death.

Actually, the HOF waives the waiting period for anybody who dies. Rod Beck was on this year's ballot because of this. Clemente is, however, the last player to actually be elected after having appeared on the HOF ballot early.

Edit: Hey, I'm comment #21 in the Clemente's number thread! Do I win a prize!!

22. Reed's Johnson Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:06 AM (#2673672)

Two down, 98 to go. Might as well keep tackling those factors of 42.

Next up, 84 in honour of countless hard-working Spring Training first cuts

23. Lou Potent Potables (Dan Lee) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:14 AM (#2673677)

So what would the Indians do? Retire 21 for Clemente and Bob Lemon?

Actually, the HOF waives the waiting period for anybody who dies. Rod Beck was on this year's ballot because of this.

Didn't Darryl Kile get a HOF vote or two? Or seven, it turns out.

24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:23 AM (#2673690)

"Retire 21 for Clemente and Bob Lemon?"

By retiring 21 for Clemente, the Pirates were prevented from retiring it for Arky Vaughan after he was elected to the Hall.

25. Lou Potent Potables (Dan Lee) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:27 AM (#2673694)

I'm just interested to see what the Indians do about number 24 a couple decades from now. There's a couple guys who have worn that number who I can see the team wanting to honor.

26. Deadball... With the Power To Melt People's Faces Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:34 AM (#2673701)

Actually, the HOF waives the waiting period for anybody who dies. Rod Beck was on this year's ballot because of this. Clemente is, however, the last player to actually be elected after having appeared on the HOF ballot early.

Alright, so I was wrong. Phil Pepe lied to me.

Sound of Greyhound bus crushing Phil Pepe in his Thurman Munson jersey

27. RB in NYC (Now with Christmas Spirit!) Posted: January 22, 2008 at 11:50 AM (#2673717)

By retiring 21 for Clemente, the Pirates were prevented from retiring it for Arky Vaughan after he was elected to the Hall.

Really? Prevented? The Yankees have retired 8 twice--for Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra--and I assume 42 will also be double-retired (for Jackie and Rivera). Is there an actual rule about teams not retiring numbers twice?

28. OsunaSakata Posted: January 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM (#2673747)

The best way to honor Clemente is to let players where the number in honor of him.

I don't wanna be starting something here...but I feel the same way about #42.

Same here. By keeping players from wearing #42, it limits those inevitable stories of what Jackie Robinson means to a player. MLB instead should have required that the Rookie of the Year be called the Jackie Robinson Award. I know it already is officially, but like the same way the Cy Young Award is named. You give the explanation of what the award is for to non-fans.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2008

N.Y. Sun: Clemente’s No. 21 May Be Retired From Play

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