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Sunday, May 11, 2008

N.Y. Times: Silver: For Griffey, the Roads Not Taken (RR)

The latest Keeping Score...as Nate Silver Pecotarates Griffey.

¶His career could have ended like Dawson’s, with a long and somewhat graceful decline, his skills diminishing by a tiny fraction each year, but with a big season or two along the way. Our system estimates that had Griffey followed the Dawson path (but adjusting for the friendly conditions of Griffey’s home ballpark), he would have finished with 725 homers.

¶It could have ended like Maris’s — not just slowed, but completely undermined by injury. Maris, a far better-rounded player at his peak than is remembered today, hit just 35 home runs after turning 30. Had Griffey followed the Maris path, he would have finished with 448 home runs.

¶Or it could have ended like Aaron’s, with Griffey indeed maintaining a 40- or 50-homer pace into his late 30s, and shattering all records along the way. Our system estimates that, had he followed the Aaron path, Griffey would have ended his career with 904 home runs.

Instead, Griffey has staked out his own path, somewhere between the Dawson and Maris trajectories. Aaron he will not be, but precisely what made Aaron such a special player is that he sustained his core abilities past a point when nearly every other players’ decline.

When we ask Pecota to project what is left of Griffey’s career based on his current level of ability, we have him finishing with 660 homers — the same total as Mays.

That outcome could be regarded as a disappointment only by someone with no sense for baseball’s history.

Repoz Posted: May 11, 2008 at 01:11 PM | 6 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralSabermetricsProjections

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   1. Zach Posted: May 11, 2008 at 02:08 PM (#2776709)
The Barry Bonds career path puts him at 925.

Imagine what a disaster that would have been.
   2. Rough Carrigan Posted: May 11, 2008 at 04:08 PM (#2776847)
Do any of these hypotheticals try to take into account a scenario where he keeps himself in top condition?
   3. Bob Dernier Ressort Posted: May 11, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2776914)
I always found it interesting how closely Griffey and Juan Gonzalez tracked each other, for a while. They are the same age, within a month; they had 100-RBI seasons at the same age; Gonzalez became a 40-HR hitter in '92, Griffey followed in '93. They traded the MVP back and forth in 96-97-98. Both left the AL West in the 99-00 offseason. Gonzalez fell off a cliff as a hitter in '00, Griffey in '01, and they really only had one big comeback year after that, Gonzalez in '01 and Griffey in '05.

Griffey was a better player, and stayed at least semi-useful longer, but they were peers for a long time, and both encourage "what-ifs." And when you can hit 597 home runs, or even 434 for that matter, and still encourage "what-ifs," you had a pretty good run.
   4. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 11, 2008 at 04:47 PM (#2776953)
One of my best friends is a physical therapist - in fact, he's the trainer for a professional sports team. We used to go to Mariners games in the early-to-mid 1990s, and he was always appalled at Griffey's habits - his lack of warm-up excercises and stretching, and the half-hearted way he did them on the infrequent occasions he did do them. His take was (and it should be remembered that Griffey was quite durable when with the M's, except for incidents like the freak broken wrist in 1995) that it wouldn't have much effect on Griffey then, but that when he reached his 30s, his body would break down because he hadn't taken care of himself. How right he was...
   5. Craig K some obscure verb phrase Posted: May 11, 2008 at 05:51 PM (#2777006)
I think we're at the point where we've figured out Albert Pujols' true talent levels lie; anyone with a projection system wanna see what he's on pace for?
   6. sptaylor Posted: May 12, 2008 at 01:57 AM (#2777525)
Brock2 says that Pujols will be a full-time player until he's 40, and be out of baseball after age 43.
Games played - 3,086
Runs scored - 1,749
RBI - 2,090
Hits - 3,309
Doubles - 674
Triples - 20
Home runs - 678
Walks - 1,677
Lifetime BA - 0.308
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