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Thursday, July 02, 2009

NYT: Jack Clark Takes Jabs at Mets of Mid-’80s (RR)

More like a Carlos Monzon crushing jab to the face…

As it turns out, the old feuds continue to simmer. Jack Clark, the cleanup hitter on those St. Louis teams, called those Mets a bunch of cheats and showboats Tuesday in an interview on KTRS-AM radio, which broadcasts Cardinals games.

Clark told McGraw Milhaven, the morning host at the station, that the mutual hatred ran so deep that he purposely snubbed the Mets when they played together in All-Star Games.

“I wanted to let them know I wasn’t glad to be there with them and their teammate, didn’t want to be on any team or be a teammate with them, and we were going to battle,” said Clark, who provides commentary on some Cardinals games and manages the Springfield Sliders, a summer collegiate league team in Illinois.

Clark took particular aim at Gary Carter, the Mets’ catcher in those years, saying that he “talked his way more into the Hall of Fame than deserving it.” Carter, he said, craved the spotlight, which was “pretty sickening and disgusting to everybody else.”

Thanks to Can’t Stop the Bleeding.

Repoz Posted: July 02, 2009 at 11:28 AM | 43 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
Related News: General, History, NY Mets, St Louis

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1. ColonelTom Posted: July 02, 2009 at 11:51 AM (#3240094)

This.

2. Ben V-L Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:09 PM (#3240106)

Jack Clark's '85 and '87 seasons were a thing of beauty. Particular '87, where he really deserved the MVP even with the missed time.

And the Cardinal teams of that era were a blast: scrappy on the basepaths, killer tough outs in odd-numbered seasons, rock-solid defense. Jack Clark and 7 leadoff hitters.

And that was a gloriously vicious rivalry with the pond-scum, er, Mets.

But all that notwithstanding, Carter is a solid HOFamer and Clark really should shut up.

3. Levi Stahl Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:15 PM (#3240111)

Also, even though I'm a Cardinals fan and loved watching Jack Clark play: those Mets won a championship. Those Cardinals didn't.

4. zonk Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:25 PM (#3240116)

So what do I do with this?

A Cubs fan that grew up hating the 80s Mets even more than the Cardinals... What is the path to mutual assured destruction in this feud, because that's what I'm rooting for.

5. Levi Stahl Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:29 PM (#3240124)

Give Jack Clark a fleet of race cars and the Mets an overload of young talent and a hype-hungry media market? Seems to have worked last time . . .

6. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:31 PM (#3240129)

Go hump Niedenfuer.

7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:45 PM (#3240135)

“I wanted to let them know I wasn’t glad to be there with them and their teammate, didn’t want to be on any team or be a teammate with them, and we were going to battle,”

...adding, "hey could you spare a few bucks?

8. wjones Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:49 PM (#3240141)

Jack Clark and 7 leadoff hitters.

Darrell Porter was a lead-off hitter?

9. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:49 PM (#3240143)

(T)hose Mets won a championship. Those Cardinals didn't.

The 1982 Brewers would be interested in hearing this.

10. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:00 PM (#3240157)

The 1982 Brewers would be interested in hearing this.

He means (I'm guessing) the Jack Clark-led Cardinals. Clark didn't come over until before the '85 season.

11. Eddie Kranepool Society Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:09 PM (#3240165)

Jack Clark couldn't polish Kid Carter' Hall of Fame plaque

12. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:17 PM (#3240172)

Those Cardinal teams did produce one thing no one else has been able to: World Champion Kansas City Royals.

13. Liver of blaspheming 'zop Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:20 PM (#3240176)

<strike>Those Cardinal teams</strike> Don Denkinger did produce one thing no one else has been able to: World Champion Kansas City Royals.

Fixed.

14. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:23 PM (#3240181)

Clark dropped the popup, dude.

15. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3240183)

"That's baseball." -- Jon Sterling

16. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:25 PM (#3240187)

Darrell Porter was a lead-off hitter?

(Forget) that. Vince Coleman was a leadoff hitter?

17. Levi Stahl Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:25 PM (#3240188)

Bingo, Dayn. And who knows, the Clark-led Cards might have been able to win in '87 if he'd been healthy for the postseason.

18. Raoul Duke Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:27 PM (#3240190)

Clark was robbed of the MVP in '87. And Gary Carter is a jagoff.

19. Liver of blaspheming 'zop Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:28 PM (#3240194)

"That's baseball." -- Jon Sterling

"My name is spelled with an "h", moron." -- John Sterling

20. The District Attorney Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:31 PM (#3240200)

I certainly agree that Carter "craves the spotlight", but I'm not sure that trait has ever worked out well for him :-) And I don't remember him saying much of anything notable about the HOF. As I'm sure virtually all of us agree, he deserves to be there anyway.

I wouldn't even say Clark was the best Cardinal MVP candidate in '87. Helluva scary hitter when healthy, though, absolutely.

Remember when the Yanks had him, Don Mattingly and Ken Phelps at the same time? What was that about.

21. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:37 PM (#3240212)

Man, you want to talk about at least one way in which the game has changed since 1987, check out the MVP voting that year for the NL. Ten of the top eighteen vote getters stole 30 or more bases; four had 50 or more.

22. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:07 PM (#3240257)

I think Ozzie was the 1987 NL MVP. But his snubbing was nowhere near as bad as Alan Trammell's.

23. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:08 PM (#3240259)

No, it was Dawson in his 49-homer, 137-RBI season.

24. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:23 PM (#3240280)

"That's baseball." -- Jon Sterling

"My name is spelled with an "h", moron." -- John Sterling

"Blow it out your ear." -- Met Fan Charlie

25. RayDiPerna

Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:32 PM (#3240456)

"My name is spelled with an "h", moron." -- John Sterling

You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron." -- Harold Moskowitz.

26. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:54 PM (#3240486)

"My name is spelled with an "h", moron." -- John Sterling

You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron." -- Harold Moskowitz.

"You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron" -- Jhonny Peralta

27. frannyzoo Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:58 PM (#3240491)

"My name is spelled with an "h", moron." -- John Sterling

You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron." -- Harold Moskowitz.

"You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron" -- Jhonny Peralta

"You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron" -- Charlie Parker

28. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:09 PM (#3240502)

You! Put the "h" in! (where?) The Wrong place, moron! -- Thomas Pynchon

29. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:14 PM (#3240518)

"You put the 'bomp' in the wrong bomp bah bomp bah bomp, moron." -- Barry Mann

30. The District Attorney Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:38 PM (#3240576)

"GET A BRAIN! MORANS" - guy with mullet underneath his bandanna & Cardinals T-shirt

31. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3240592)

"GET A BRAIN! MORANS" - guy with mullet underneath his bandanna & Cardinals T-shirt

"I'n gon' getchoo, ya fargin' icehole sumnumbunches!" -- Roman Maronie

32. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:51 PM (#3240597)

He said I could have any h in the house -- The Dude.

33. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3240605)

"Would you like to buy an h?" -- Lefty the Letter Salesman

34. fra paolo Posted: July 02, 2009 at 06:02 PM (#3240617)

"In Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly ever happen" - Eliza Doolittle

35. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: July 02, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3240656)

"You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron" -- Jhonny Peralta

"That's what see shed." - Michael Gary Scott.

36. Jeff K. Posted: July 03, 2009 at 12:58 AM (#3241109)

Tim Wallach got a first-place MVP vote? The hell.

37. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 03, 2009 at 01:03 AM (#3241113)

"You put the "h" in the wrong place, moron" -- Jhonny Peralta

"Wrong hole, buster!"

38. fret Posted: July 03, 2009 at 02:39 AM (#3241153)

Tim Wallach got a first-place MVP vote? The hell.

Who the H put him in the wrong place? Moron!

39. J. Michael Neal Posted: July 03, 2009 at 05:39 AM (#3241208)

And Letterman ripped the "h" off of his chest, and turned the omer, back into homer.

40. Benji Posted: July 04, 2009 at 03:45 AM (#3241961)

Jack Clark. ####### then, ####### now.

41. Jeff K. Posted: July 04, 2009 at 04:30 AM (#3241969)

Yeah, because Darryl Strawberry, Gooden, Dykstra, Backman, and Kevin Mitchell are all fine, fine people. :)

42. Benji Posted: July 04, 2009 at 04:44 AM (#3241975)

Yup. All horrible people. Too bad they couldn't be exemplary guys like Vince Coleman. :)

43. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: July 04, 2009 at 06:12 AM (#3241988)

2 contemporary players, both corner OF:

Jim Rice: 2089 G, .298/.352/.502, OPS+ 128, 382 HR, 1451 RBI, 8-time All Star, 1 MVP
Jack Clark: 1994 G, .267/.379/.476. OPS+ 137, 340 HR, 1180 RBI, 4-time All Star

Rice obviously played in a much better hitting environment, but Clark was more productive. Rice did have a lot more RBIs, but he was also hitting behind Wade Boggs & Dwight Evans a lot of the time, which didn't hurt. Clark was worse than Rice in the clubhouse, and he moved around a lot, neither of which helped his reputation. Rice got to DH in about 200 games more than Clark, which has to count against him. I don't think either one had much of a defensive reputation.

I have Clark ahead of Rice on my HoM rankings, but I'm sure some people will disagree. But any reasonable analysis shows they're not that far apart, and neither one is quite Hall of Fame worthy.

Just for the heck of it
Rice: 282 WS, 57.2 WARP1, 55.1 WARP3
Clark: 316 WS, 63.8 WARP1, 64.2 WARP3

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NYT: Jack Clark Takes Jabs at Mets of Mid-’80s (RR)

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