That's his right of course, but why not make the trade contingent on the Sawx promising to buy him out and NOT offer him arbitration and then just re-sign with the Pads in the offseason. 2 months in Boston wouldn't kill him. He might even get a World Series out of it. And Boston has outstanding chowder.

That's his right of course, but why not make the trade contingent on the Sawx promising to buy him out and NOT offer him arbitration and then just re-sign with the Pads in the offseason.

From the article:

Among the issues that came up was location -- Giles, who grew up in San Diego, did not want to leave family behind -- and there was the concern about playing time with the Red Sox.

An older guy, playing in his home town, who would be moving to the other end of the country and who wasn't sure how much he'd be playing if he left...can't say I blame him.

-- MWE

An older guy, playing in his home town, who would be moving to the other end of the country and who wasn't sure how much he'd be playing if he left...can't say I blame him.

I hear ya. It just seems he has chosen the path of least possible adventure. Like I said, he's well within his rights to do it. I don't mean to imply he's a bad guy or anything.

And Boston has outstanding chowder.

"Say 'chowder'!"
"Show-dair."

This decision, of course, proves why Ricciardi passed on Giles. He doesn't care enough about baseball to try winning a ring.

You'd think Giles might want one last crack at the playoffs, though I guess he's already played in a World Series, so maybe the playoffs doesn't intrigue him that much. Too bad the Red Sox were on his no-trade list.

It just seems he has chosen the path of least possible adventure.

Look at this way. Even leaving aside the question of Giles having roots, family, friends, and teammates in his current city, which city would YOU want to live in (for even a few months) given the choice: San Diego (also known as "heaven on earth," minus a forest fire or two) or Boston (the gaping Hellmouth of the United States)? And it's not just the city or weather or politics, it's the people.

I don't even LIKE "California"-type people generally (I'm an East Coast whelp), and I still would love to live in San Diego. The only thing I'd miss is the occasional snowfall.

"Show-dair."

"It's CHOW-dah! CHOW-DAH!"

I live in Boston and rather like it.

Go figure.

I don't even LIKE "California"-type people generally (I'm an East Coast whelp), and I still would love to live in San Diego. The only thing I'd miss is the occasional snowfall.

But it's only for 8 weeks! He'd be back in San Diego in time for Indian summer unless they made it to the Series. He's got a few bucks, school's not in session. Rent a nice condo in downtown and bring the family along.

It just seems he has chosen the path of least possible adventure.

Kids do that to people.

Not a big surprise, the Red Sox have a notoriously low-key shower scene

Look at this way. Even leaving aside the question of Giles having roots, family, friends, and teammates in his current city, which city would YOU want to live in (for even a few months) given the choice: San Diego (also known as "heaven on earth," minus a forest fire or two) or Boston (the gaping Hellmouth of the United States)? And it's not just the city or weather or politics, it's the people.

I'd choose San Diego as well, but it's important to keep in mind, the fact that it is only a few months and that half of it will be spent on the road anyway is relevant enough that this doesn't especially matter. He could run off for a couple months, maybe win a World Series, maybe not (either way, it's more exciting than what the Padres have got going on) and then come back to San Diego for the offseason.

I haven't walked a mile in his shoes, so I'm not going to say he's made a wrong choice. If it really is a matter of family, I applaud him for his unselfish choice. But you have to admit, it does seem peculiar for someone who's spent his life competing at the highest level to say "no, thank you" to a chance to win a World Series toward the end of his career.

He's got a few bucks, school's not in session.

It very well could be. Traditional school calendars are not the norm in Southern California. Living out of hotel/condo for two months with kids isn't exactly fun.

Not a big surprise, the Red Sox have a notoriously low-key shower scene

The bathroom scene as a whole settled down quite a bit with last week's trade.

There is also a real playing time issue here. He obviously can't get a contract agreed with the Padres for next year now. If he becomes a reserve for the next few months, that might hurt his bargaining position. Also, he's 3 weeks away from 10-5 rights, at which point he can be guaranteed to stay in SD.

It very well could be. Traditional school calendars are not the norm in Southern California. Living out of hotel/condo for two months with kids isn't exactly fun.

Yeah, I'm sure he has reasons I don't know about. He did take less money to stay in San Diego, too, so the FO there will probably just shrug their shoulders and respect his decision.

Also, he's 3 weeks away from 10-5 rights, at which point he can be guaranteed to stay in SD.

The Padres can just buy him out.

I don't even LIKE "California"-type people generally (I'm an East Coast whelp)

It's ok, even us West Coast people don't like "California"-types.

The Padres can just buy him out.

And gain what? The ability to trade him next year? That will become moot once he is so pissed that he signs somewhere else or retires instead.

That's his right of course, but why not make the trade contingent on the Sawx promising to buy him out and NOT offer him arbitration and then just re-sign with the Pads in the offseason.

Maybe the Red Sox wouldn't agree to that? We don't know that Giles didn't propose something along those lines, but the Sox wouldn't give up what the Padres wanted if they weren't going to get more than a rental.

If the Padres buy him out and re-sign him for less, does he lose 10-5 rights? I would think not, does anyone know the specifics on this?

San Diego (also known as "heaven on earth," minus a forest fire or two) or Boston (the gaping Hellmouth of the United States)? And it's not just the city or weather or politics, it's the people.

What does Philly have on Boston? Both have historical significance on their side (for what that's worth). Boston is cleaner, happier, has better sports teams, less bloated and neglected urban wastelands, a superior network of universities, better vacation destinations (I'll take the cape over the shore), better gambling (I'll take Mohegan Sun over AC), better food (I'll take fresh seafood over greasy beef)...

Is Bruce Springsteen that much better than Aerosmith? And he's from nearby, not even Philly proper.

God I'm glad I'm moving to Seattle in 2 weeks.

I live in Boston and rather like it.

I live in NY and rather like Boston, actually.

Now, I'm not saying they would do this, but couldn't he end up there anyway? The Padres tried to put him through waivers and the Red Sox put in a claim. Couldn't San Diego just not pull him back and he would be forced to go to Boston? San Diego didn't trade him, so his no-trade clause would have no effect.

If he becomes a reserve for the next few months, that might hurt his bargaining position.

OTOH a couple of big hits in the World Series could help that bargaining position. If it were me, I'd execute the Shooty plan...and let the kids come along for the ride...or not. The 10-5 rights are a legitimate consideration though.

What does Philly have on Boston?

It's further from Massachusetts.

Now, I'm not saying they would do this, but couldn't he end up there anyway? The Padres tried to put him through waivers and the Red Sox put in a claim. Couldn't San Diego just not pull him back and he would be forced to go to Boston? San Diego didn't trade him, so his no-trade clause would have no effect.


And, again, why? If you're the Padres, you've pissed off a veteran player who wants to stay with his family for pretty much no gain. That's not a good reputation to have with other players. And, as an organization, you've just stuck the Red Sox with a guy that doesn't want to play and isn't motivated (or likely to report). Do you really want to gain that reputation with both players and another club to save maybe $1 million?

Is Bruce Springsteen that much better than Aerosmith?

Um...yes. Both of them are terrible now. In fact, both of them pretty much ran out of interesting music by 1981 or so and were at their best early in their career. But still: good god yes. The second side of The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle alone is superior to Aerosmith's entire discography, outside of maybe Rocks.

What does Philly have on Boston?

Uh, more crime? Massively overrated local cuisine? A larger population?

I give up.

I'll take Bruce over Aerosmith seven days a week and twice on Sunday. But after a couple of years living in South Philly, I can't figure out how people can use his image as a proud collective identity for a filthy and deteriorating city.

What does Philly have on Boston?

It's not filled with people from Boston.

Maybe the Red Sox wouldn't agree to that? We don't know that Giles didn't propose something along those lines, but the Sox wouldn't give up what the Padres wanted if they weren't going to get more than a rental.

Of course, Boston would have also netted two draft picks in this scenario. Maybe it was the Padres who wouldn't agree to it, since it would cost them their second round pick to get Giles back next year.

Couldn't San Diego just not pull him back and he would be forced to go to Boston? San Diego didn't trade him, so his no-trade clause would have no effect.

Players with 10/5 rights and/or NTCs can block any assignment of their contract to another club. You can't use the waiver process to get around this. The players' association would have to have the worst lawyers in the world to have agreed to a CBA with a loophole like that in it.

Now, I'm not saying they would do this, but couldn't he end up there anyway? The Padres tried to put him through waivers and the Red Sox put in a claim. Couldn't San Diego just not pull him back and he would be forced to go to Boston? San Diego didn't trade him, so his no-trade clause would have no effect.

This came up in the other Giles thread. He can block having his contract assigned to Boston in any fashion if he so desires.

EDIT: And I owe #33 a Coke.

Lost in all of this is that while it would have been nice for Boston to get Giles, it was by no means a necessary thing. Blocking him from going to another team, though, to me, was necessary, so with that in mind ultimately this has worked out fine for the Red Sox.

Maybe it was the Padres who wouldn't agree to it, since it would cost them their second round pick to get Giles back next year.

Do you get draft pick compensation if you decline a team option? I don't think that's the case, but I've been wrong before.

San Diego didn't trade him, so his no-trade clause would have no effect.

Cots says it would, to wit:

A player with a no-trade clause who is claimed on Major League waivers must be pulled back if the player’s no-trade clause allows him to block a deal to the claiming club. However, the player may waive the no-trade clause and join the claiming club.

Is Giles a certain type A FA? If a player in his case was strongly suspected of being type B (sandwich pick but no compensation from the signing team), wouldn't there be an incentive for Boston and San Diego to collude on such a deal? Boston doesn't mind paying the tab on Giles, San Diego gets a mid level prospect, and Boston replenishes it through next year's draft with no cost to SD.

As to why San Diego would do that... that wasn't the point. I didn't think they would.

I jsut wanted to know if they could.

Asked and answered. Thanks.

Of course, Boston would have also netted two draft picks in this scenario. Maybe it was the Padres who wouldn't agree to it, since it would cost them their second round pick to get Giles back next year.

Huh? Under the scenario proposed, Boston would have agreed NOT to offer arbitration, so they wouldn't have netted two draft picks. I thought that was the point -- it would have freed Giles to return to San Diego because there would NOT have been draft pick compensation that would (or Giles might have feared would) have been an impediment.

Do you get draft pick compensation if you decline a team option? I don't think that's the case, but I've been wrong before.

If the player is in the right class (Type A/B) and you offer him arbitration, then you may decline a team option and still get the compensation.

Massively overrated local cuisine?

Cheesesteaks? What else is the local cuisine to overrate?

If the issue was just Giles wanting to be sure he went back to San Diego after the season, they could have agreed to a player to be named later as well, agreeing that Giles himself would be that player. He apparently just doesn't want to go to Boston, or doesn't want to lose his 10/5 rights.

What does Philly have on Boston?

It's not filled with people from Boston.

Don't be so sure.

32 is classic.

Maybe he didn't want to play for an organization that slanders its players behind their backs and to their faces by accusing them of faking injuries.

Under the scenario proposed, Boston would have agreed NOT to offer arbitration...

Missed that. Sorry.

Is Giles a certain type A FA?

I think so. He was 18th among 1b/OF in the last rankings, an the top 24 were type A. The rankings cover two years, and his 2008 is shaping up to be a improvement on his 2006.

Massively overrated local cuisine?

Cheesesteaks? What else is the local cuisine to overrate?

Hoagies, which have it all over their cousins, the submarines.
Soft pretzels.
Tastykakes.

And if you can't dig any of the above, then fine, more for me.

But to be honest, with heart disease in the family and the need to keep chloresterol down below 170, I have maybe 3 cheesesteaks, 1 hoagie, 6 soft pretzels and 1 package of Tastykakes per year.

So if you have a limited no-trade clause, what kind of teams do you put on there? No-hopers that you desperately want to avoid but there's very small chance that they will try to trade for you? Or the big teams that might trade for you where you will gain leverage? Or should you just put the cities with bad weather or lousy schools on the list?

10-5 rights is a moot point. If San Diego doesn't pick up the option he is a free agent and they do a new contract. If he goes to Boston that could be part of the agreement ("Don't pick up my option"). Either way the prvileges of 10-5 is meaningless since he is going to be a free agent and he can demand no trade clauses.

I live in Boston and rather like it.

Go figure.

Me too.


And I'm from California.


(edit: but only until I graduate. I miss good burritos and cheap baseball games.)

Cheesesteaks? What else is the local cuisine to overrate?

Hoagies, which have it all over their cousins, the submarines.
Soft pretzels.
Tastykakes.

And if you can't dig any of the above, then fine, more for me

Compared to everybody elses version of the cheeseteak Philly's is the best but the cheesesteak is still a crap sandwich.

Nothing beats a WaWa sandwich at 3 in the morning.

Tastykakes is dried processed crap.

Softpretzels are good but I fail to see how they are better then anybody elses.

Pizza nothing special
Bar scene-nothing special
Cuisine-compared to suburbs good but about average for a major city
Italian markets: Gone red sauce American except for DiBruno Bros which is simply an outstanding store.
Chinatown: Near the back end compared to other major cities.
Burgers-Nothing stands out
Mexican-Tex/Mex-not much
Wine shops-please, state store blech.

Philly's much cheaper to live. And it's a more bike friendly town. And they have a more diverse population. And they have a much better local music scene. And they have happy hour.

Lived in both, and like both, but I'd take Philly unless I was a) a professor or b) really wealthy.

Edit - Though I would take Somerville over Upper Darby.

There's many things to love about Boston, but the T completely wipes it all out. The T is horrible - especially the Green line. It's slower than a Parkinson's patient and it doesn't go to all the important spots. I also dislike how the streets are illogical and inefficient. I like the Downtown, but it's small and too homogenous, IMHO.

It's slower than a Parkinson's patient...

Stay classy.

And mix in a walk from time to time. Boston's tiny.

So if you have a limited no-trade clause, what kind of teams do you put on there? No-hopers that you desperately want to avoid but there's very small chance that they will try to trade for you? Or the big teams that might trade for you where you will gain leverage? Or should you just put the cities with bad weather or lousy schools on the list?

I had always assumed that it would be teams like the Pirates and Royals where you wouldn't want to play. But last year Gagne apparently had the Red Sox, Yankees, and Tigers on his for the leverage. I'd assume that limited clauses started out for the first reason, but I wonder how many are currently the second.

I also wonder when the teams need to be listed. The contract announcements always say something like, "Player X can designate 10 teams to which he can not be traded." Do they list the 10 at the beginning of the contract, at the beginning of the year, when first approached about a trade, etc.?

"Player X can designate 10 teams to which he can not be traded." Do they list the 10 at the beginning of the contract, at the beginning of the year, when first approached about a trade, etc.?

It's written into the language when they sign the contract.

Uh . . . Philadelphia may have a better electric guitar and drumset scene (I wouldn't know), but Boston has a better music scene. (Though a couple of good composers live in Philadelphia.)

Cheesesteaks? What else is the local cuisine to overrate?

Hoagies, which have it all over their cousins, the submarines.
Soft pretzels.
Tastykakes.

Tastykakes are the finest of the processed, packaged generic dessert products. But perhaps I damn them with faint praise.

Other Philadelphia area culinary treats;

1. Scrapple! Nothing like a big brick of scrapple to settle the stomach at 3AM after a night of boozing.

2. Taylor Ham/Pork Roll. Also a New Jersey thing, but hard to find outside of NJ/Philly.

3. Dock Street Beer. I don't think they stack up all that well with the latest generation of top American craftbrewers (Stone, Dogfish Head, etc.), but in the mid-90s, they were a revelation. I once worked in the building above their brewery/restaurant and they'd sell pony kegs we'd smuggle upstairs on Friday afternoons. Good times.

4. Ummm... Ok, I got nothing.

I also wonder when the teams need to be listed. The contract announcements always say something like, "Player X can designate 10 teams to which he can not be traded." Do they list the 10 at the beginning of the contract, at the beginning of the year, when first approached about a trade, etc.?

I think this varies. I'm pretty sure that Giles listed his when the contract was signed. Johnny Damon submits a new list each season.

I don't even LIKE "California"-type people generally...

Wow, what does this even mean? How are "California" people?

It's slower than a Parkinson's patient and it doesn't go to all the important spots.

It's slower than Ramon Castro and, like Aaron Heilman's sinker, doesn't go to all the important spots.

There. Fixed that for you, Rasky.

Tastykakes are the finest of the processed, packaged generic dessert products. But perhaps I damn them with faint praise.

I'd take entemens bakery and even little debbie over tastykakes. Definitely Entemens coffecakes over tastykakes.

Sara Lee also does a pretty good job as well.


I-76, I-676. Clogged arteries for a cheesesteak eating city.

I'd take entemens bakery and even little debbie over tastykakes. Definitely Entemens coffecakes over tastykakes.

I love the free-associative aspects of BBTF threads.

I lovd when Dave Attel came to Philadelphia. He came in January or February and it was cold as ####. If you had never been to Philadelphia watching Insominiac would make you think that Philly is the most boring city in the world.

I like that Boston's streets are illogical and inefficient. Grids are boring. Boston's also among the best cities for walking in the US. It's tiny, you can get everywhere on foot, you can walk from Cambridge to downtown, whatever you need.

I've also gotten a lot more respect for the T after moving to Chicago and dealing with the CTA, and this is from someone who had to sardine his way onto the E Green Line train 5 days a week.

I'd take entemens bakery and even little debbie over tastykakes. Definitely Entemens coffecakes over tastykakes.

Mmm. To me, Enteman's is inedible garbage. However, the Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme Pie is a superstar of the processed junk food world. I haven't bought them in years due to a tendency to eat the entire box within a day or two.

I lovd when Dave Attel came to Philadelphia. He came in January or February and it was cold as ####. If you had never been to Philadelphia watching Insominiac would make you think that Philly is the most boring city in the world.

Yeah, Philly definitely has its flaws. It's basically New York's stupid, ugly little sister, and worse, knows it. The inferiority complex of the local press (and some of the locals) has to be seen to be believed. Still, it has its charms... Being worse than NY is no crime for a city.

Wow, what does this even mean? How are "California" people?

Have you ever seen "Laguna Beach"?

Boston's Museum of Fine Arts has my favorite Monet, La Japonaise. Makes it a clear winner to me.

No, I haven't...don't watch TV. I can about imagine though...but to assume everyone from California is like that is extraordinarily stupid. It would be like me watching Seinfeld and saying "wow I don't like people on the East Coast! They are so whiny and self-obsessed!" Just mind-blowingly dumb.

Yeah some of them are hippy tree huggers.

No, I haven't...don't watch TV. I can about imagine though...but to assume everyone from California is like that is extraordinarily stupid.

Similar arguments could be made about the way New Yorkers or Bostonians are described by many of the posters here. I think we all know they're stereotypes and not absolute truth (or truth in any form, really).

What does Philly have on Boston?

1) Diversity, integration. Boston's neighborhood segregation is really weird - I moved up from Philly and my first apartment was in Brookline, and it was serious culture shock. I'm in the south end now, where there's some weird quasi-integration with gentrification occuring around several public housing projects, but either way, Boston's racist past has imposed itself on the city's geography in problematic ways.

2) Italian sandwiches. You may not like the cheesesteak (go back to Russia, hippie!), but if you don't love Tony Luke's, you don't love eating, or life.

3) Prices. Absolutely everything is cheaper.

4) Food trucks. Philly has them, Boston does not.

5) Atlantic City > Foxwoods. I will brook no dissent on this point. Man was meant to gamble in post-apocalyptic wastelands, crumbling cities always in decline and never hitting bottom, not in glassy purplish shopping malls.

I love living in Boston, and having spent a long weekend in San Diego, I wouldn't even consider moving there, all else being equal - you cannot walk San Diego, and the downtown feels like a theme park. Whoever was ripping on the T system, find me a comparable size American city that's even remotely close to Boston in walkability and transit quality. One could make the case for DC, but I think Boston's superior walkability trumps DC's superior subway. And Philadelphia, love it though I do, has two lines that cross in the middle of the city. Whatever. I think a lot of New Yorkers end up in Boston and rip on the subway system as if Boston and New York were meaningfully comparable cities. They're not. It'd be like Bostonians lording it over Worcester.

you can walk from Cambridge to downtown, whatever you need.

But they are really long and, worse, uninteresting walks. You have to walk a ways off the bridges to get to anywhere interesting in Boston. The two bridges near Harvard are shorter and a little more interesting but go nowhere.

Bicycling is more practical. But the bikeways on the Salt-and-Pepper bridge is as narrow as the waists of local women are wide. Boston drivers also seem to have more burning hatred against cyclists than elsewhere, even New York.

Italian markets: Gone red sauce American except for DiBruno Bros which is simply an outstanding store.

I'll second DiBrunno Bros. Having a new one in the Comcast Center just made a three block walk to lunch a one block walk.

Whoever was ripping on the T system, find me a comparable size American city that's even remotely close to Boston in walkability and transit quality.

Transit quality?! What transit quality. The T is cramp, slow, and inefficient. It's the Neifi Perez of transit systems.

I'll come to the walkability aspect of Boston when I have more time.

Boston drivers also seem to have more burning hatred against cyclists than elsewhere, even New York.

Boston drivers are insane. I have many fond memories of Boston and still have many great friends there, but whoever is praising the T and Boston drivers probably have not lived in Boston for any significant duration of time.

Transit quality?! What transit quality. The T is cramp, slow, and inefficient. It's the Neifi Perez of transit systems.

You're a Mets fan, so I'm assuming you're comparing it to the NYC subway. Don't. Stop comparing things to New York, it's not useful. Boston's T is light years superior to its Philadelphia equivalent, for instance.

I am not a big fan of the Green Line, but that helps as an educational tool, teaching you to live in Boston, rather than Brookline, Allston, or Brighton. The subways (red and orange, particularly) and fast and pleasant. I take them most days, and I love it.

I live in the S. End as well, MCoA.

My Top Five Restaurants (these days):

1) Gaslight
2) Masa
3) Joe V's (I live on Union Park, so my wife and I hit it up whenever we are too lazy to cook).
4) Union
5) Toro

Boston drivers are insane. I have many fond memories of Boston and still have many great friends there, but whoever is praising the T and Boston drivers probably have not lived in Boston for any significant duration of time.

Five years now. The T isn't the New York subway, but I'm not silly enough to expect it to be. I spent three years taking the Orange Line to the Red Line every morning, and now I take the Silver Line to the Red, and it's a really nice commute. I get some reading done, almost always get a seat, and I get to work on time.

You're a Mets fan, so I'm assuming you're comparing it to the NYC subway. Don't. Stop comparing things to New York, it's not useful. Boston's T is light years superior to its Philadelphia equivalent, for instance.

Let's see:

New York, London, Bay Area, Washington, Chicago are all places off the top of my head that are much, much better than Boston.
If Des Moines had a transit system I am convinced it would be better than the T.

The Green Line is horribly designed. Would you ever decide to place the stops the way Boston does? Why do the lines diverge at Arlington and Boylston - couldn't some engineer fix that? Have you ever had an tight schedule and had to wait for the E line - it's torture.

Ahh, don't get me started on the T.

I like standing on subways! [/irrelevance]

1) Gaslight
2) Masa
3) Joe V's (I live on Union Park, so my wife and I hit it up whenever we are too lazy to cook).
4) Union
5) Toro

Good list. I'm maybe not such a big fan of Masa (though I love their happy hour half-price bar food), but otherwise I'm with you. Have you tried Estragon, the new tapas place on Harrison and Brookline? It's basically as good as Toro, a little more hit and miss, but with superior sangria and a cool "head-to-tail" style menu, with pig's ears and cod cheeks and sweetbreads and all that. The pig's ears, in particular, were outrageously good.

My list would probably be something like...

1) Toro (we live practically around the corner, also)
2) Gaslight
3) Franklin Cafe
4) Estragon
5) B&G;or Union

Love 647 for brunch and drinks, Delux for a less south endy feel and bacon grilled cheese.

Rask, if your main T exposure was the green line, then yeah, it's a nightmare. The orange line (which I currently take to work) isn't without its flaws, but it's pretty good on the whole. The red line isn't bad either, depending on the time of day.

I definitely miss the rent in Philadelphia ($850 for a nice one bedroom with central AC? Yes please.)

2) Italian sandwiches. You may not like the cheesesteak (go back to Russia, hippie!), but if you don't love Tony Luke's, you don't love eating, or life.

Sure, Tony Luke's is pretty good. But you can get a good italian sandwich in Boston too. My comment about overrated local cuisine was for the cheesesteaks - Pat's? Geno's? Spare me. Steak-umms and cheese whiz? I don't care how nice the italian roll is, that's a crappy sandwich.

5) Atlantic City > Foxwoods. I will brook no dissent on this point. Man was meant to gamble in post-apocalyptic wastelands, crumbling cities always in decline and never hitting bottom, not in glassy purplish shopping malls.

I hate Atlantic City with a burning passion, yet I concede your point.

I live in the S. End as well, MCoA.

My Top Five Restaurants (these days):

1) Gaslight
2) Masa
3) Joe V's (I live on Union Park, so my wife and I hit it up whenever we are too lazy to cook).
4) Union
5) Toro

I live in JP. Man, I love Toro. Have you had their grilled corn?

Maybe this isn't the best thread for it, but is there going to be a Boston meetup at some point soon? I've been curious to meet some local primates since I moved back.

Wrong team, Buster.

Just noticed Repoz' tag. Also, I just spit water all over my desk.

New York, London, Bay Area, Washington, Chicago are all places off the top of my head that are much, much better than Boston.
If Des Moines had a transit system I am convinced it would be better than the T.

London and New York are not even remotely comparable. You have to approach Boston for what it is, Boston is a large city, not a center of the world.

Chicago's also a lot bigger than Boston, though maybe I'll give you that. I haven't lived in the Bay Area, but my experience as a tourist is that San Francisco is more walkable, but even less affordable, and the rest of the area is less walkable and far less transit-endowed.

The areas you listed, their metropolitan area population:

New York: 18,000,000
London: 13,000,000
Chicago: 9,500,000
Washington: 5,300,000
Boston: 4,400,000
Bay Area: 4,200,000

You gotta adjust for context.

647 Brunch is great and I have not tried Estragon.

And Joe C, let's do it.

Rask, if your main T exposure was the green line, then yeah, it's a nightmare. The orange line (which I currently take to work) isn't without its flaws, but it's pretty good on the whole. The red line isn't bad either, depending on the time of day

Yeah, the Red Line is okay. The problem with the Orange Line is that it doesn't go to many places I like to go.

The Green line is needed for Brookline, Downtown, North End, Chinatown, Faneuil Hall, Boylston Street, Arlington, and of course, Fenway Park.

More on this later, got to finish up something here.

The Green line is needed for Brookline, Downtown, North End, Chinatown, Faneuil Hall, Boylston Street, Arlington, and of course, Fenway Park.

The key is to live in Boston, not in Brookline, Allston, or Brighton. Then you can walk to all these places, or take the Silver or Orange Line (for Chinatown, Downtown, North End, Faneuil Hall).

647 Brunch is great and I have not tried Estragon.

And Joe C, let's do it.

I'm in. IIRC, Mattbert's coming into town for two weeks soon. I'm gone next week for a conference, but what about some time the week of the 17th?

If we have a relatively small group, Coda on Columbus is a nice place to watch a game at the bar and get a beer.

I'm in. IIRC, Mattbert's coming into town for two weeks soon. I'm gone next week for a conference, but what about some time the week of the 17th?

Coda Monday the 18th? Sox are in Baltimore and the place should be quiet on a Monday.

The CTA sucks. I was in Washington last week -- it's shocking how bad the CTA seems after riding on the Metro for a few days. I've never been in a city where trains just stop and don't go anywhere for no apparent reason as often as Chicago. Plus, huge areas just aren't served by the subway, and there are real maintenance problems because so much of the maintenance budget has been diverted into a couple of fantasy construction projects (i.e., a new downtown rail station linking to O'Hare).

(i.e., a new downtown rail station linking to O'Hare).

You mean in addition to the blue line? What's the point?

The key is to live in Boston, not in Brookline, Allston, or Brighton. Then you can walk to all these places, or take the Silver or Orange Line (for Chinatown, Downtown, North End, Faneuil Hall).

Yeah, but if someone were to make the T better, then Brookline, Allston, Longwood, Roxbury, and Mission Hill would all be more convenient places to live. At this time, to live there is to put up with the inconveniences of the T.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention - the T always gets overcrowded during Sox games and also on Friday and Saturday nights with drunk loud college students.

I do agree that Boston is a very walkable city. But I do wish that there were more walkable fun areas in Boston - after doing the Arlington-Boylston-Faneuil Hall walk about the 500th time, it loses a bit of its charm.

I do agree that Boston is a very walkable city. But I do wish that there were more walkable fun areas in Boston - after doing the Arlington-Boylston-Faneuil Hall walk about the 500th time, it loses a bit of its charm.

I would recommend the South End, the North End, and Centre St in JP. The south end in particular hasn't lost its charm for me.

the T always gets overcrowded during Sox games

Isn't this common in every MLB city nationwide? I've taken trains to games in Chicago, DC, and Minneapolis, and this was the case every time.

Isn't this common in every MLB city nationwide? I've taken trains to games in Chicago, DC, and Minneapolis, and this was the case every time.

The problem is that other train systems become cramped. The T becomes dysfunctionally slow.

Can we go easy on the Parkinson's patient comparisons here? There's a million better ways to say that.

It occurs to me that the Red Sox' desire to acquire Brian Giles probably doesn't bode well for the remainder of David Ortiz' 2008. Is it just me?

Sure, Tony Luke's is pretty good. But you can get a good italian sandwich in Boston too. My comment about overrated local cuisine was for the cheesesteaks - Pat's? Geno's? Spare me. Steak-umms and cheese whiz? I don't care how nice the italian roll is, that's a crappy sandwich.

Pat's and Geno's are where the tourists go. Locals know better.