“I don’t view age as a factor in this discussion,” Amaro said. “Who knows how long his prime years could be. His prime could be seven more years. A lot of it depends on how he takes care of himself and genetics.

Huh. Amaro might be showing some reluctance towards a long term deal with the "genetics" line, but the comment about Howard's age is a little troubling. Still, this is all just posturing and not necessarily indicative of what Amaro is actually thinking.

Speaking of contracts, didn't Bubka receive a bonus any time he set a world record, and didn't he then procede to break the his own world record repeatedly by small amounts, earning the bonus several times?

All players would now be held to the Howard standard. And $10 million for anyone – let alone a Super 2, a player with three more arbitration years remaining – set the bar Bubka high.

What's to stop someone like Adrian Gonzalez from going to arbitration, demanding $10m or more, based upon his assertion that he's BETTER than Howard (and he is). If there are any SABR inclined/familiar arbitrators he could win on that argument.

OTOH it'd be great to see Depo or someone like him arguing that Gonzalez is clearly inferior to Howard by saying, "look at the RBIs, look at the MVP vote"

Speaking of contracts, didn't Bubka receive a bonus any time he set a world record, and didn't he then procede to break the his own world record repeatedly by small amounts, earning the bonus several times?

Yes, IIRC, the Soviet Union paid a $10,000 bonus to athletes if they broke a world record.

So, Bubka sandbagged, and repeatedly broke it by the smallest possible amount.

Ha, I guess pole vaulters are in the best position to precisely know how much they will break the record by...since the bar is already set at a certain amount just over the record, and all they have to do is jump it, even if they could actually jump a higher amount.

Weightlifters could also do this.

Runners and people who throw things obviously don't have the ability to achieve a certain distance/speed while making absolutely sure they don't go even farther/faster.

4. snapper Posted: November 26, 2008 at 10:53 AM (#3016226)
Speaking of contracts, didn't Bubka receive a bonus any time he set a world record, and didn't he then procede to break the his own world record repeatedly by small amounts, earning the bonus several times?

Yes, IIRC, the Soviet Union paid a $10,000 bonus to athletes if they broke a world record.

So, Bubka sandbagged, and repeatedly broke it by the smallest possible amount.

The reality in track and field is that meet promoters, especially of the big money lucrative European meets, pay a bonus, ontop of whatever appearance fee / prize money that has been agreed on, for a world record.

It's part of how track and field athletes get paid. The system is understood and agreed on by everyone.

Yelena Isinbayeva, world and olympic champion, world record holder in women's pole vaulting is doing the same thing nowadays. It's simply that an event like pole vaulting makes it much easier, compared to say an event like the 100m sprint, for an athlete to get more money using the system.

Meet promoters don't have any problems with Yelena Isinbayeva milking them by increasing her WR by 1cm here, 2cm there. Not when her setting WRs incrementally helps them sell tickets and gets them TV eyeballs.

Baseballing powerhouse Crispix Attacks Posted: November 26, 2008 at 11:01 AM (#3016231)
Ha, I guess pole vaulters are in the best position to precisely know how much they will break the record by...since the bar is already set at a certain amount just over the record, and all they have to do is jump it, even if they could actually jump a higher amount.

Weightlifters could also do this.

True. But, to do this, you'd need to be truly dominant in your sport, the way Bubka was, and the way Yelena Isinbayeva nowadays is. To the point that an opening height for Isinbayeva is better than the best that all her competitors have ever done. Very very few athletes are that much better than everyone else. I could see Usain Bolt milking the system if he wants to.

No weightlifter has been that dominant in a very long time, since the days of Vasily Alexeev in his pomp in the 70s.

Very very few athletes are that much better than everyone else. I could see Usain Bolt milking the system if he wants to.

Perhaps that's what he was doing by not running all out at the Olympics. To break the record by .1 second instead of .2 seconds, I mean.

I think some of the Chinese female weightlifters are that dominant in their weight classes.

I think some of the Chinese female weightlifters are that dominant in their weight classes.

Women's weightlifting is something of an anomaly. It's a (very) young sport at the Olympic level. It was only allowed into the Olympics from Sydney 2000 onwards, and this only after a long and hard fought battle to get in. The first time women participated in the weightlifting world championships was in 1987. Whereas the totals in men's lifting only go up incrementally, and in some cases have pretty much not budged at all:for example Alexeev's total in the clean and jerk in the Montreal 1976 was as good as Matthias Steiner's total in the clean and jerk in Beijing 2008, the totals in women's lifting improve FAST.

A female lifter who was dominant in 2004, setting WRs, but who didn't improve, nor regress, could very well find herself not even a medal contender in 2008.

And while the Chinese are indeed the strongest country in women's weightlifting, and indeed arguably the current superpower in weightlifting, that is due to the system. Weightlifting as currently organised, because of any real big money pro league / competitions, favours countries where the government can / will pump money. The Chinese right come closest to having a state sponsored athletic system.

While a Chinese female lifter might be head and shoulders over lifters from most other countries, though even that gap is fast closing, she's not head and shoulders over other Chinese female lifters who are all ready, willing and eager to take her spot, but who can't compete in the Olympics since each country is limited in how many lifters it can send.

My dream:

Phillies trade Ryan Howard
Phillies sign Mark Teixeira
This occurs in my home.

My dream:

do all Phillies Phans get to have that happen in their home?
What % of Phans are aware that Tex is a better baseball PLAYER than Howard?

wow, rfloh knows a lot about Olympic sports.

do all Phillies Phans get to have that happen in their home?

No, just me.

What % of Phans are aware that Tex is a better baseball PLAYER than Howard?

3. I know the majority of posters at this Phillies forum know that, but I don't know how well they represent the whole population.