Vaux, you insane musicologist, what do you suggest? A best of 13 series?

Halladay isn't as good as Santana. Halladay is included in "several others".

I got my hands on tickets for tonight. Didn't know I'd be going tonight until 10:30 this morning. If the Phillies win, look for the 51 year old crying his eyes out-- I'm starting to tear, just thinking about it as I type. My first baseball memories are of 1964. My recollection of 1980 are special. If I can be in the park tonight when they win, all other sports-related experiences for the rest of my life will be just a bonus. There is no logic for why I feel this way, but if you are reading this web site, you understand.

Now you know what it's like for a Red Wings fan to see the Stanley Cup in places like Anaheim, Raleigh, and, yes, Tampa Bay before it was returned to its rightful place last spring.

Is this in the context of the Red Wings being an "original six" team, or merely a franchise outside the Sun Belt? If it's the former, then you must have been pained to see the Stanley Cup in North Jersey -- not just in 1995, since the Devils beat the Wings that year, but when they won the Cup in 2000 and 2003 (although the Devs conquered Dallas and Anaheim, respectively, in those finals).

And will, we understand. We had those feelings in College Park in 2002 (men) and 2006 (women).

Am I the only Red Sox fan who is pulling for the Rays? Yeah, the teams have had beanball wars in the past, but a lot of that was when Longoria and company were in high school. Even when Boston is eliminated I usually am a soft supporter of the AL representative.

I'm rooting for the Rays, and have been since the Red Sox were knocked out.

I won't include you in this assessment, GGC, but there are a lot of insufferable ######## who paint with a broad brush on this site. Not all of them are Red Sox fans, although some of them are. There's plenty of assholery to spread around, but it seems to be proportionate to overall fan base size.

Why does a Phillies/Rays thread have to degenerate into a bashing Redsox fans thread?

See #12 and seriously reconsider the need to ask the question. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have had a Red Sox fan not intentionally turned it into one.

"HAhahahahahahahaahaa! Johan santana is MUCH better. (So is Jake Peavy and several others)."

Yes, but none of THEM have Cole's current mojo. Game Five is all Cole, baby.

i've been rooting for the phillies. why? crap like this and this ... they have a long history of throwing at red sox players, starting fights with the red sox and then taking cheap shots. remember when pedro almost no-hit them and half their team was ejected? so yeah ... #### 'em.

I remember when Pedro routinely threw at people too. What comes around goes around.

And weren't you the dude who said that the Red Sox didn't win the AL East because "they didn't need to, so they didn't try?"

Well I guess they didn't need to win the ALCS either. As a Yankee fan, with unmatched experience both personally and within our circle of fans noticing this sort of stuff, the Red Sox "nation" from 2004 to now are just like the Yankee fan.

You are me now.

BTW, for the few jaded Sox fans who are rooting for the Phillies because their fans have been more supportive in their losing times, you might want to read this:

http://www.draysbay.com/2008/10/27/647577/fan-loyalty

I don't think there is another starter in baseball I would take over Hamels right now,

HAhahahahahahahaahaa! Johan santana is MUCH better. (So is Jake Peavy and several others).

Maybe so, but Hamels is ....
1) Significantly younger than most of those guys.
2) On a playoff roster.

on to topic #2....
The NHL is the only pro sport in the Raleigh area.
While this is a hotbed for NCAA hoops, if you don't care for that, there's not much else to pull for. As Dial stated, the Hurricanes fan base is comprised largely of people who moved to the area from the northease (including me....) and then had a hockey team land in their lap after they'd been here a while.

The transplants already understood hockey and how it works, the natives were quick to jump on board.
The organization is pretty well respected, and has a wonderful public persona as the players seem approachable and are never in the paper for the wrong reasons.

I'm still a Flyers fan first, but I pull for the Canes when they're playing anybody else.

Bitterness about a non-traditional team winning a championship is just sour grapes. It's right up there with the BCS conferences(uh-oh...here I go....) scheduling all of the lesser tier schools for automatic wins, but shutting them out of the big games when they're good. The (Devil) Rays were not put into existence for the Red Sox and Yankees to get 18 free wins a year.

I find it a comical rationale that a team isn't allowed to win a title until it's either lost a championship round game or has had an extended dry spell. By that thought process, nobody should have been allowed to win the first world series.

It's funny. I want the Rays to win, but I have nothing against the Phillies, nothing whatsoever. In fact, as a Mariners fan I've always loved Jamie Moyer and enjoyed watching him pitch well in Game 3. If the Phils close it out tonight, then as far as I'm concerned a lot of great and/or likable players - Hamels, Moyers, Utley, Burrell, Rollins, Howard -- will have gotten well-deserved rings.

But you know what? My heart leapt for joy when the Red Sox lost. I was willing to give everything, to sacrifice my first-born son's soul, you name it, just so long as the Red Sox lost. And posts like #12 are the reason why. Well, that and Vaux.

I know there are a lot of very solid and smart Sox fans on BTF. But guys like #12 have always, in my experience, been representative of the Sox fans I've known in person.

Maybe so, but Hamels is ....
1) Significantly younger than most of those guys.
2) On a playoff roster.

2) You have to learn to seperate those things. Pedro Feliz is on a playoff roster, but he isn't remotely as good as the other 3B in the majors.
1) If Hamels can make the leap from his Age 23-24 (ERA+ ~140) that johan Santana did (Age 23-24 ERA+ 148) to 5 years of ERA+ 160, tehn we can talk about whether Hamels is better. the fact of the matter is that Santana is better. A lot better - in 2008, and most likely in 2009.

So, it's great that Hamels gets this chance, and he's an excellent pitcher (he's not as good as Santana was at his age but he has throw more IP). It isn't disparaging to say Hamels isn't as good as the best pitcher in the majors. He's very very good and very young.

Now you know what it's like for a Red Wings fan to see the Stanley Cup in places like Anaheim, Raleigh, and, yes, Tampa Bay before it was returned to its rightful place last spring.

MM-hmm. I think it's been a little harder on Canadian fans, who have gone 15 seasons without any of their teams winnning the Cup, while two beloved franchises were moved to Denver and freaking Phoenix.

#1 is accurate, #2 was just a poke.

Hamels rankings this year (in NL amongst starters)
#1 in WHIP, #2 in IP, #2 in BAA, #5 in ERA, #6 in K, T-10th worst in total HR allowed, T-3rd in SO, somewhere around 38th worst in total BB allowed.
Hurting his stock, is that he was 15th in wins on what's considered a great offensive team, but the Phils quite often hosed him with run support.

While I still think the CYA goes to Lincecum this year, that's one hell of a season for Hamels.

MM-hmm. I think it's been a little harder on Canadian fans, who have gone 15 seasons without any of their teams winnning the Cup, while two beloved franchises were moved to Denver and freaking Phoenix.

If the Canadian Dollar could have kept giving the US Dollar wedgies, maybe a couple franchises would've moved back to Canada, eh?

HAhahahahahahahaahaa! Johan santana is MUCH better. (So is Jake Peavy and several others).

I'd take Hamels over Peavy. While I can't legitimately say that Hamels is less of an injury liability than Peavy, Hamels did prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has the ability to pitch 200+ innings without slowing down (not that Peavy can't). Also, what's up with Peavy's 2006? That sticks out like a sore thumb.

As for the debate, starting pitchers I'd take over Hamels:

Johan Santana
Tim Lincecum
C.C. Sabathia
Roy Halladay

I think that's it. I'd take Hamels over Webb, Haren, Lee, Lester, Beckett, Wang, F. Hernandez, Buehrle, Lackey, Verlander, Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Volquez, Oswalt, Cain, Cook, Billingsley, Lowe, etc.

If the Canadian Dollar could have kept giving the US Dollar wedgies, maybe a couple franchises would've moved back to Canada, eh?

That or if Bettman wasn't such an idiot, yeah. Blocking Balsillie was ridiculous, especially considering some of the shady characters he's welcomed into the ownership fold (Boots and Samueli, I'm looking in your direction).

That or if Bettman wasn't such an idiot, yeah. Blocking Balsillie was ridiculous, especially considering some of the shady characters he's welcomed into the ownership fold (Boots and Samueli, I'm looking in your direction).

Don't forget the Tampa owner who he never met, and who is strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in Japanese organized crime, and just using the Lighting to launder money (Takashi Okubo).

Also, what was the name of the fraudster (not, not McNall) who nearly managed to buy the Islanders without actually having any money? Oh, that's right. It was John Spano.

Wow, I'd never heard that about Okubo. Thanks for the info.

Wow, I'd never heard that about Okubo. Thanks for the info.

It's not clear if there's any truth to the Okubo rumor. It's just the sort of thing which happens when a league sells a team to a guy who no involved in the transaction has ever met, and who never shows up to a game during the entire length of his ownership of the team, and of whom there were no known pictures, while simultaneously making the team pay its expenses using loans from his other company.

It's just the sort of thing which happens when a league sells a team to a guy who no involved in the transaction has ever met, and who never shows up to a game during the entire length of his ownership of the team, and of whom there were no known pictures,

In related news, the Nashville Predators are being sold to a consortium headed by Hideki Matsui's wife.