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Saturday, June 21, 2008

Philly Burbs: Joe Saunders says he got shaft from Phils after draft

Saunders: Little Bit of Righteousness - with Heavy Turbulence.

Saunders says the Phillies offered a $150,000 take-it-or-leave-it signing bonus the day after the 1999 draft. When that offer was rejected, Saunders insists he never heard from the organization again.

“To get drafted was such an honor and the whole way they handled it was such an awkward experience for me,” Saunders said Friday before the Phillies and Angels began their weekend interleague series. “You never see an organization come in with one offer and you get 10 minutes to make your decision, then not talk to you the rest of the summer.”

Members of the Phillies scouting department say Saunders’ story is ridiculous. In their version, repeated follow-up attempts to get a deal done were made. But it was Saunders’ advisor and parents, the Phillies say, who refused to negotiate or even permit the club to speak to Saunders again, in person or over the phone.

“It’s frustrating because obviously we thought we had a chance to get him into the system,” Phillies director of scouting Marti Wolever said.

...Saunders laughed when hearing Wolever’s version.

“What they told you was a fish story,” he said.

Repoz Posted: June 21, 2008 at 08:52 AM | 22 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralLA AngelsPhiladelphia

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   1. Dan The Mediocre  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 08:00 AM (#2828328)
Saunders says the Phillies offered a $150,000 take-it-or-leave-it signing bonus the day after the 1999 draft. When that offer was rejected, Saunders insists he never heard from the organization again.


Wait, so Saunders is angry that the Phillies followed through on their threat?
   2. Shibal  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 09:17 AM (#2828357)
Wait, so Saunders is angry that the Phillies followed through on their threat?


We all know how those "take it or leave it" offers are really take it or leave it.
   3. Padraic  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 09:26 AM (#2828360)
I think it was probably the initial "take-it-or-leave-it" stance that bothered him, not the following through part. Admittedly, the wording does make it seem odd that Saunders was surprised.
   4. Freeballin'  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:18 AM (#2828371)
Isnt this issue that Saunders is actually a decent major league pitcher, and the Phillies should have tried harder to sign him?
   5. JJ1986  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:25 AM (#2828373)
If I ran a baseball team, I'd try as hard as I could to sign any decent prospect I drafted. It doesn't make sense not to. The upside is that you're getting a guy who would go in the first few rounds in one or three or four years. The downside is that you lose 1/10th of the amount of money that you're paying Abraham Nunez to completely suck.
   6. ColonelTom  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:29 AM (#2828375)
The Phils gave an offer; Saunders and his family said no. Methinks the ball was in Saunders' court at that point, and he never countered the offer. After he didn't call for three months, the Phils called, and the family said he'd gone to college. What else was there to discuss?
   7. Raskolnikov  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:33 AM (#2828377)
Sounds like Saunders was waiting for the Phils to make another offer, and he would have accepted. I'm glad that he ended on the LAA.
   8. Sam M.  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:51 AM (#2828381)
The Phils gave an offer; Saunders and his family said no. Methinks the ball was in Saunders' court at that point, and he never countered the offer.

If, as Saunders claims, it was presented as "take it or leave it," why would they counter or call back? They would have thought the Phillies weren't open to a counter-offer or negotiations. I'd say the ball was in the Phillies' court to give some indication that they were more flexible than their opening hardball stance gave him reason to believe.

Now, maybe you can say they should've been more savvy to how the game is played, and that they should have known an opening offer is just that, even if it's accompanied by "take it or leave it" bluster. But if the Phillies are going to play it that way, they are taking the risk that some percentage of their draftees are going to take them at their word and believe take it or leave it means just that, and assume that if they aren't willing to take it, they are left with only the option of leaving it.
   9. snapper  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 11:13 AM (#2828391)
If I ran a baseball team, I'd try as hard as I could to sign any decent prospect I drafted. It doesn't make sense not to. The upside is that you're getting a guy who would go in the first few rounds in one or three or four years. The downside is that you lose 1/10th of the amount of money that you're paying Abraham Nunez to completely suck.

I agree with this completely. It is just absurd for an MLB team to not sign someone, or even mildly piss off a guy you do sign, over $25 or $50 G.

I imagine part of this might be that MLB underpays pretty much all their front-office employees except the GM. I could definitely see some underpayed scouts or assistants getting pissy with young players.
   10. wcw  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 12:01 PM (#2828410)
If I remember, Barry Bonds would have been a Giant for his entire career, but the Giants were too cheap to meet his higher-than-usual bonus demand. They offered $5k less, pissed him off, and he walked to AZ State.
   11. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 12:22 PM (#2828416)
BRef lists Saunders as a 5th rounder that year

Is $150K unreasonable for that level? I honestly don't have the slightest idea.

(P.S. look what retard was the team's #1 that year)
   12. jwb  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 01:44 PM (#2828472)
That is one sorry draft. Kameron Loe didn't sign, Frank Brooks was traded for the last 25 bad innings of the Mike Williams farewell tour, 2.5 seasons of Marlon Byrd, one good, then flipped for three bad months of Endy Chavez. Brett Myers and one good season from Byrd is it.
   13. shoewizard  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 01:46 PM (#2828474)
Is there a bigger crapshoot on earth than the MLB amateur draft after about pick number 15?
   14. philly  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 02:15 PM (#2828495)
Is $150K unreasonable for that level? I honestly don't have the slightest idea.


This year 150k is the slot for the last pick of the 5th rd so that was a very competitive offer in 1999.
   15. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..)  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 07:05 PM (#2828596)
(P.S. look what retard was the team's #1 that year)


We don't say "retard" anymore, we say "differently abled" or, "what a Jeter".
   16. Matt Welch  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 09:50 PM (#2828759)
Is there a bigger crapshoot on earth than the MLB amateur draft after about pick number 15?

Yes. The playoffs, when the A's are in them.
   17. Gambling Rent Czar  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2828764)
Is there a bigger crapshoot on earth than the MLB amateur draft after about pick number 15?
The annual NL West race?
   18. akrasian  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:01 PM (#2828765)
This year 150k is the slot for the last pick of the 5th rd so that was a very competitive offer in 1999.

Had Saunders dropped because of signability concerns? I have no idea where he was generally ranked among prospects at the time. But I can understand wanting further negotiations if there'd been a couple of round drop, and not being happy with a take it or leave it offer.

Frankly, it's asinine to say "take it or leave it" for the first offer. There's going to be too many people who are offended, and decide to leave it - especially when the player has a full ride scholarship offer anyway.
   19. Boots Day  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2828769)
BRef lists Saunders as a 5th rounder that year

How come Saunders doesn't get a link to his BB-ref page like the other major leaguers do?
   20. akrasian  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2828771)
How come Saunders doesn't get a link to his BB-ref page like the other major leaguers do?

I suspect it was because he wasn't signed. I checked a couple of other drafts and noticed the same thing about players who went back into the draft pool, even if they made the majors later on.
   21. Kiko Sakata  Posted: June 21, 2008 at 10:36 PM (#2828779)
I suspect it was because he wasn't signed. I checked a couple of other drafts and noticed the same thing about players who went back into the draft pool, even if they made the majors later on.


You're probably right, but Kameron Loe gets a link on that very page, even though he went back into the draft and got picked by the Rangers 3 years later. It's probably a pain in the ass to maintain consistency one way or the other.
   22. battlekow  Posted: June 22, 2008 at 12:53 AM (#2828806)
That is one sorry draft. Kameron Loe didn't sign, Frank Brooks was traded for the last 25 bad innings of the Mike Williams farewell tour, 2.5 seasons of Marlon Byrd, one good, then flipped for three bad months of Endy Chavez. Brett Myers and one good season from Byrd is it.

I would say that any draft you get a Brett Myers-caliber pitcher out of was a pretty good one. You're basically knocking them for not developing a utility player or two that year.
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