Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

Pineiro agrees to two-year, $13M deal with Cards

Pineiro began the year in Boston’s bullpen, making 31 relief appearances, and made two starts for Triple-A Pawtucket in late July before the Cardinals acquired him along with cash for a minor leaguer. He was pitching coach Dave Duncan’s latest reclamation project with a 3.96 ERA the last two months, and closed out his surge by helping to knock the New York Mets out of the postseason in a 3-0 victory on Sept. 27.

The 29-year-old worked into the sixth inning in seven of his starts, and the team was 7-4 when he pitched. He credited Duncan, who also has revived the likes of Jeff Weaver and Woody Williams in recent seasons, with reworking his delivery.

Yep, the free agent market is going to be crazy next year.

Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:29 PM | 37 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralSt Louis

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Guts Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:49 PM (#2579296)
Why, God, why?

2008 is going to be a long season.
   2. Sparkles Peterson Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:51 PM (#2579297)
Because Brad Thompson giving them the same mediocre 160 innings would convince the fans that the Cardinals were going cheap next season.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:53 PM (#2579300)
Who coulda predicted that Kip Wells would suck so much this year?

But Joel Pineiro, that is a wise signing.
   4. SouthSideRyan Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:53 PM (#2579301)
Jeff Weaver, there's a feather in your cap.
   5. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:55 PM (#2579310)
13 million for Pineiro? Really? If the A's really do trade Joe Blanton this offseason, the team that wants him better come bearing extraordinary gifts.
   6. Obi One Kenobi Nil (BFFB) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 01:56 PM (#2579312)
This is highly amusing.

Joel Piniero, WTF? Has there been a timewarp and the Cardinals still think it's 2003?
   7. AROM Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:00 PM (#2579317)
Joel Piniero, WTF? Has there been a timewarp and the Cardinals still think it's 2003?


Judging by what they paid Mulder, yes.
   8. Sparkles Peterson Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:00 PM (#2579318)
Pineiro probably would have made a bit more on the open market, on the strength of his flukish ERA with the Cardinals. If all you look at is ERA, it looks like Pineiro figured something out in St. Louis. GMs can sell themselves that he either really was tipping pitches or that he just couldn't get comfortable in the bullpen.

That said, it's still an awful contract.
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:01 PM (#2579319)
"Who coulda predicted that Kip Wells would suck so much this year?"

I actually thought he'd be a decent rebound candidate, now that the blood vessel in his arm wasn't being blocked and making his hand go numb anymore.
   10. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:02 PM (#2579320)
I wonder how much Jocketty had to do with this contract. It seems too close to the end of Jocketty's time with the Cards not to make any wild speculation about this contract being the reason he left the team.
   11. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:04 PM (#2579325)
Jesus.
   12. Boileryard Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2579345)
Sure, I'd listen if Dave Duncan called.
   13. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:17 PM (#2579347)
My God. This is insanity. Wouldn't the prudent course of action be to sign him to a 1 year deal maximum to see if his "turnaround" from pitching in the NL Central is real or just smoke and mirrors?

Terrible signing.
   14. Jimmy P Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:29 PM (#2579367)
Did these guys hire a GM? If I were interviewing, I'd be a little wary of a team that a) won't let me draft and b) signs shitty players before I'm hired.
   15. villageidiom Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2579370)
It takes a lot to make Boston's signing of Pineiro look cheap. Thank you, Cardinals!
   16. greenback Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:36 PM (#2579373)
Judging by what they paid Mulder, yes.


The funny thing here is that supposedly the other team running up the bidding for Mulder's services was the ultra-hip Indians.

What a load of crap.
   17. JPWF13 Posted: October 16, 2007 at 02:49 PM (#2579385)
Why, God, why?


I know he's been awful in recent years, but he was throwing extremely well in that shut out against the Mets. Yes I know the mets were collapsing, but aside from that game they were hitting and scoring runs.

Also he had a 40/12 k/bb with STL, yes his homers were up, but overall his peripherals showed a marke dimprovement over his 2005/06 numbers.
   18. BourbonSamurai is not Fausto Carmona Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:23 PM (#2579448)
Who made this signing?

I'm betting Pineiro broke into Jocketty's vacant office, made up some papers, and then had a press conference while wearing a fake moustache and funny hat...

"Yes, we've signed the amazing Joel Pineiro for great wads of cash...me? I'm the interim GM...Jim. Jim Pineir-I mean Smith."
   19. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:26 PM (#2579456)
Because Brad Thompson giving them the same mediocre 160 innings would convince the fans that the Cardinals were going cheap next season.


You may have been joking, but I actually suspect this is exactly why this contract was signed.
   20. Sparkles Peterson Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:39 PM (#2579469)
I actually think that's about 75% of it, the other 25% being an inability or unwillingness to convince Duncan, LaRussa, and the like that Pineiro really isn't better than the homegrown options.

In either case, you kind of have to wonder why exactly Jocketty had to go.
   21. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:43 PM (#2579475)
The market does overpay for flukishness.

If you'd rather have Jeff Weaver back in StL, he's available again. But beware, 2006 World Series Hero Weaver commanded $8.3 million from Seattle this season.
   22. greenback Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:50 PM (#2579490)
In either case, you kind of have to wonder why exactly Jocketty had to go.

Starting a public turf war with your boss is never a good idea.

The Cardinals just bet $13 million based on 60 good (sorta) innings. The Porcello thing looks a little worse now.
   23. CFBF Hates Hyphens Posted: October 16, 2007 at 03:54 PM (#2579493)
I'm betting Pineiro broke into Jocketty's vacant office, made up some papers, and then had a press conference while wearing a fake moustache and funny hat...

"Yes, we've signed the amazing Joel Pineiro for great wads of cash...me? I'm the interim GM...Jim. Jim Pineir-I mean Smith."


I chuckled.
   24. Sparkles Peterson Posted: October 16, 2007 at 04:26 PM (#2579531)
Starting a public turf war with your boss is never a good idea.


Yeah, but the entire turf war was started as the result of a guy DeWitt promoted to keep Jocketty from making moves exactly like this one. Either there's something in Jeff Luhnow's database that says that Reyes, Thompson, Narveson, and Kip Wells are all going to collapse next year, or the Cardinals are basing this decision on 60 innings' worth of ERA to the exclusion of all else.
   25. haven Posted: October 16, 2007 at 04:53 PM (#2579570)
"St. Louis gave me that chance," Pineiro said. "They took that chance on me. That meant a lot to me."


"Well, that and the $13 million they paid me."
   26. AROM Posted: October 16, 2007 at 05:05 PM (#2579582)
Either there's something in Jeff Luhnow's database that says that Reyes, Thompson, Narveson, and Kip Wells are all going to collapse next year


Reyes 6.04
Wells 5.70
Thompson 4.73

(edit: Not sure why you mentioned Narveson. Didn't pitch in the majors last year and his minor league numbers are not inspiring.)

If they collapse any more they won't be fit to pitch in Memphis. I'm not a fan of Piniero, I think they paid more than he's worth, but there's a decent chance this works out OK for the Cards. ERA can be fluky and 60 innings of it should not radically change our evaluation of a player, but a 40-12 K/W ratio in those 60 innings is a more positive sign that they found something here. I'd be less optimistic about him if Duncan and LaRussa left, as he's the type of pitcher they have had much success with.

I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 05:11 PM (#2579592)

I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.


I guess I'd rather get punched in the stomach than punched in the nuts.
   28. twill Posted: October 16, 2007 at 05:29 PM (#2579608)
I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.

I guess I'd rather get punched in the stomach than punched in the nuts.




Well played.
   29. MSI Posted: October 16, 2007 at 05:57 PM (#2579653)
I don't see how this is a hands-down bad deal. He has a relatively good track record health wise (compared to how fragile some other pitchers are - he has thrown about 1000 innings over the last 6 years and he is still only 28), he just might succeed in the NL, and given how bad the market is (best pitchers are Kyle Lohse, Carlos Silva and Curt Schilling), if he can give 180 innings of league average ball, that is something that normally goes for 10-12 million or more per year. Plus the Cardinals are absolutely desperate for pitching.
   30. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 06:24 PM (#2579707)
Is Piniero really going to get more than 13/2 on the open market?

Randy Wolf and Jeff Weaver got one year deals in the 7-8 range. Adam Eaton got a highly inflated 24/3 only because the Bank had to overpay for pitching. Um, I guess 13/2 really isn't that much out of whack.
   31. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: October 16, 2007 at 06:49 PM (#2579765)
Having thought a little bit about of it, I don't think this is a horrible deal either. He was legitimately brilliant against the Mets and he had one of the best combinations of stuff and control the Mets saw all year, as good as Smoltz and Hudson for example. He has usually had relatively strong walk rates. It's only one game but he was impressive.

He is getting the same contract Duque got last season and I didn't think that was a bad deal. Duque was probably better more recently than Pineiro but Pineiro is younger. Still, it's not hard to imagine a situation where he is awful.
   32. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 07:04 PM (#2579790)
Mike Maroth also killed Mets hitting the night after he was traded by Detroit. Maybe the Cards just scouted the Mets better after the season opening series debacle.

It is comical how teams either think a veteran pitcher is done so he has trouble getting a spring training invite; or teams think a pitcher might still be salvaged and gives him a 7 million contract. Maybe more teams should try the Nationals' plan of starting pitching, 30-plus AAA fillers liberally sprinkled with AA kids.
   33. Crispix Attacks Posted: October 16, 2007 at 07:17 PM (#2579805)
It is comical how teams either think a veteran pitcher is done so he has trouble getting a spring training invite; or teams think a pitcher might still be salvaged and gives him a 7 million contract. Maybe more teams should try the Nationals' plan of starting pitching, 30-plus AAA fillers liberally sprinkled with AA kids.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's practically been proven already that this makes sense for the bullpen outside of 15 or so guys who can actually be guaranteed to be good relievers. Maybe it's like that for starters as well.
   34. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 16, 2007 at 09:27 PM (#2579947)
I pretty much agree with the last 2 posters. I think teams would do well to sign a few "AAAA" veteran starters who haven't had arm trouble to NRI contracts. Give them an incentive laden deal with a small guaranteed salary. You might turn one into a rotation regular, and you'd be money ahead even if you paid the others to stay home or you stashed them in AAA.
   35. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2579971)
And the great thing is you can turn around and trade one of those NRIs that panned out to a stupid GM for his top prospects.
   36. Crispix Attacks Posted: October 16, 2007 at 09:58 PM (#2579980)
The only one of the Nationals' AAAA veterans who really provided value this year was Cannonball Tim Redding. Bacsik and Bowie weren't terrible, but young guys Hill, Bergmann and Chico were all better. Simontacchi and Jerome Williams were atrocious. And none of them was good enough to actually get traded for something.
   37. greenback Posted: October 16, 2007 at 10:03 PM (#2579984)
And the great thing is you can turn around and trade one of those NRIs that panned out to a stupid GM for his top prospects.


Who's the best prospect that's been picked up for an NRI? I'm guessin' this as much a fantasy as Piñeiro throwing 200 innings with a 4.00 ERA in 2008.

Sparkles, I've been away, so sorry about the delayed response. But there are two qualifiers to what you're saying about Jocketty/Luhnow. First, IMO Luhnow was brought in less to stop Tino deals or what-not and more to build a hundred million dollar development machine, and it's just not there yet. Eventually there's some relationship between the two, but again they're not there yet. Second, there's the PR aspect of starting Reyes or Thompson that you've already mentioned. While it was pretty stupid to put themselves in this position, they are in this position.
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Bob Dernier Cri
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogStrange Times in Baseball: 1891-1895
(12 - 9:15pm, Feb 09)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogSources: Cubs’ Starlin Castro Accused Of Sexual Assault
(5811 - 9:13pm, Feb 09)
Last: Lassus:

NewsblogNYT: Alderson Remakes Needy Mets From Bottom Line Up
(22 - 9:07pm, Feb 09)
Last: gef the talking mongoose

NewsblogThe Book Blog: MGL: Today on Clubhouse Confidential
(73 - 9:04pm, Feb 09)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

Newsblog'Duk: Tim Lincecum slims down with swim routine, loses appetite for McDonald’s
(275 - 9:04pm, Feb 09)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogGrantland/Bill James: An Open Letter to the Hall of Fame About Dwight Evans
(18 - 9:03pm, Feb 09)
Last: Bruce Markusen

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player : 1969 Discussion
(75 - 9:02pm, Feb 09)
Last: fra paolo

NewsblogJeff Sullivan: The Worst Team Ever Projected?
(31 - 9:00pm, Feb 09)
Last: Sam Hutcheson is the 'saur with the rainbow roar

NewsblogMLB: Hall of Fame worthy? Furthest thing from Schilling's mind
(10 - 8:49pm, Feb 09)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread, February 2012
(376 - 8:45pm, Feb 09)
Last: puck

NewsblogFangraphs: Cameron: The 10 Worst Transactions Of The Winter
(81 - 8:42pm, Feb 09)
Last: Something Other

NewsblogOrioles Scouts Banned from Korea
(1 - 8:33pm, Feb 09)
Last: hardrain

NewsblogL.A. Times: 11 bidders remain in running to buy Dodgers
(6 - 8:14pm, Feb 09)
Last: phredbird

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread: February 2012
(108 - 8:13pm, Feb 09)
Last: Richard

NewsblogWhatever Happened to the Spitball?
(9 - 7:45pm, Feb 09)
Last: Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes

Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets.

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets.

Page rendered in 0.7160 seconds
40 querie(s) executed