Why, God, why?

2008 is going to be a long season.

Because Brad Thompson giving them the same mediocre 160 innings would convince the fans that the Cardinals were going cheap next season.

Who coulda predicted that Kip Wells would suck so much this year?

But Joel Pineiro, that is a wise signing.

Jeff Weaver, there's a feather in your cap.

13 million for Pineiro? Really? If the A's really do trade Joe Blanton this offseason, the team that wants him better come bearing extraordinary gifts.

This is highly amusing.

Joel Piniero, WTF? Has there been a timewarp and the Cardinals still think it's 2003?

Joel Piniero, WTF? Has there been a timewarp and the Cardinals still think it's 2003?

Judging by what they paid Mulder, yes.

Pineiro probably would have made a bit more on the open market, on the strength of his flukish ERA with the Cardinals. If all you look at is ERA, it looks like Pineiro figured something out in St. Louis. GMs can sell themselves that he either really was tipping pitches or that he just couldn't get comfortable in the bullpen.

That said, it's still an awful contract.

"Who coulda predicted that Kip Wells would suck so much this year?"

I actually thought he'd be a decent rebound candidate, now that the blood vessel in his arm wasn't being blocked and making his hand go numb anymore.

I wonder how much Jocketty had to do with this contract. It seems too close to the end of Jocketty's time with the Cards not to make any wild speculation about this contract being the reason he left the team.

Jesus.

Sure, I'd listen if Dave Duncan called.

My God. This is insanity. Wouldn't the prudent course of action be to sign him to a 1 year deal maximum to see if his "turnaround" from pitching in the NL Central is real or just smoke and mirrors?

Terrible signing.

Did these guys hire a GM? If I were interviewing, I'd be a little wary of a team that a) won't let me draft and b) signs shitty players before I'm hired.

It takes a lot to make Boston's signing of Pineiro look cheap. Thank you, Cardinals!

Judging by what they paid Mulder, yes.

The funny thing here is that supposedly the other team running up the bidding for Mulder's services was the ultra-hip Indians.

What a load of crap.

Why, God, why?

I know he's been awful in recent years, but he was throwing extremely well in that shut out against the Mets. Yes I know the mets were collapsing, but aside from that game they were hitting and scoring runs.

Also he had a 40/12 k/bb with STL, yes his homers were up, but overall his peripherals showed a marke dimprovement over his 2005/06 numbers.

Who made this signing?

I'm betting Pineiro broke into Jocketty's vacant office, made up some papers, and then had a press conference while wearing a fake moustache and funny hat...

"Yes, we've signed the amazing Joel Pineiro for great wads of cash...me? I'm the interim GM...Jim. Jim Pineir-I mean Smith."

Because Brad Thompson giving them the same mediocre 160 innings would convince the fans that the Cardinals were going cheap next season.

You may have been joking, but I actually suspect this is exactly why this contract was signed.

I actually think that's about 75% of it, the other 25% being an inability or unwillingness to convince Duncan, LaRussa, and the like that Pineiro really isn't better than the homegrown options.

In either case, you kind of have to wonder why exactly Jocketty had to go.

The market does overpay for flukishness.

If you'd rather have Jeff Weaver back in StL, he's available again. But beware, 2006 World Series Hero Weaver commanded $8.3 million from Seattle this season.

In either case, you kind of have to wonder why exactly Jocketty had to go.

Starting a public turf war with your boss is never a good idea.

The Cardinals just bet $13 million based on 60 good (sorta) innings. The Porcello thing looks a little worse now.

I'm betting Pineiro broke into Jocketty's vacant office, made up some papers, and then had a press conference while wearing a fake moustache and funny hat...

"Yes, we've signed the amazing Joel Pineiro for great wads of cash...me? I'm the interim GM...Jim. Jim Pineir-I mean Smith."

I chuckled.

Starting a public turf war with your boss is never a good idea.

Yeah, but the entire turf war was started as the result of a guy DeWitt promoted to keep Jocketty from making moves exactly like this one. Either there's something in Jeff Luhnow's database that says that Reyes, Thompson, Narveson, and Kip Wells are all going to collapse next year, or the Cardinals are basing this decision on 60 innings' worth of ERA to the exclusion of all else.

"St. Louis gave me that chance," Pineiro said. "They took that chance on me. That meant a lot to me."

"Well, that and the $13 million they paid me."

Either there's something in Jeff Luhnow's database that says that Reyes, Thompson, Narveson, and Kip Wells are all going to collapse next year

Reyes 6.04
Wells 5.70
Thompson 4.73

(edit: Not sure why you mentioned Narveson. Didn't pitch in the majors last year and his minor league numbers are not inspiring.)

If they collapse any more they won't be fit to pitch in Memphis. I'm not a fan of Piniero, I think they paid more than he's worth, but there's a decent chance this works out OK for the Cards. ERA can be fluky and 60 innings of it should not radically change our evaluation of a player, but a 40-12 K/W ratio in those 60 innings is a more positive sign that they found something here. I'd be less optimistic about him if Duncan and LaRussa left, as he's the type of pitcher they have had much success with.

I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.

I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.

I guess I'd rather get punched in the stomach than punched in the nuts.

I guess I'd rather have Piniero at this rate than Marquis at 3/21 or Suppan 4/40.

I guess I'd rather get punched in the stomach than punched in the nuts.

Well played.

I don't see how this is a hands-down bad deal. He has a relatively good track record health wise (compared to how fragile some other pitchers are - he has thrown about 1000 innings over the last 6 years and he is still only 28), he just might succeed in the NL, and given how bad the market is (best pitchers are Kyle Lohse, Carlos Silva and Curt Schilling), if he can give 180 innings of league average ball, that is something that normally goes for 10-12 million or more per year. Plus the Cardinals are absolutely desperate for pitching.

Is Piniero really going to get more than 13/2 on the open market?

Randy Wolf and Jeff Weaver got one year deals in the 7-8 range. Adam Eaton got a highly inflated 24/3 only because the Bank had to overpay for pitching. Um, I guess 13/2 really isn't that much out of whack.

Having thought a little bit about of it, I don't think this is a horrible deal either. He was legitimately brilliant against the Mets and he had one of the best combinations of stuff and control the Mets saw all year, as good as Smoltz and Hudson for example. He has usually had relatively strong walk rates. It's only one game but he was impressive.

He is getting the same contract Duque got last season and I didn't think that was a bad deal. Duque was probably better more recently than Pineiro but Pineiro is younger. Still, it's not hard to imagine a situation where he is awful.

Mike Maroth also killed Mets hitting the night after he was traded by Detroit. Maybe the Cards just scouted the Mets better after the season opening series debacle.

It is comical how teams either think a veteran pitcher is done so he has trouble getting a spring training invite; or teams think a pitcher might still be salvaged and gives him a 7 million contract. Maybe more teams should try the Nationals' plan of starting pitching, 30-plus AAA fillers liberally sprinkled with AA kids.

It is comical how teams either think a veteran pitcher is done so he has trouble getting a spring training invite; or teams think a pitcher might still be salvaged and gives him a 7 million contract. Maybe more teams should try the Nationals' plan of starting pitching, 30-plus AAA fillers liberally sprinkled with AA kids.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's practically been proven already that this makes sense for the bullpen outside of 15 or so guys who can actually be guaranteed to be good relievers. Maybe it's like that for starters as well.

I pretty much agree with the last 2 posters. I think teams would do well to sign a few "AAAA" veteran starters who haven't had arm trouble to NRI contracts. Give them an incentive laden deal with a small guaranteed salary. You might turn one into a rotation regular, and you'd be money ahead even if you paid the others to stay home or you stashed them in AAA.

And the great thing is you can turn around and trade one of those NRIs that panned out to a stupid GM for his top prospects.

The only one of the Nationals' AAAA veterans who really provided value this year was Cannonball Tim Redding. Bacsik and Bowie weren't terrible, but young guys Hill, Bergmann and Chico were all better. Simontacchi and Jerome Williams were atrocious. And none of them was good enough to actually get traded for something.

And the great thing is you can turn around and trade one of those NRIs that panned out to a stupid GM for his top prospects.

Who's the best prospect that's been picked up for an NRI? I'm guessin' this as much a fantasy as Piñeiro throwing 200 innings with a 4.00 ERA in 2008.

Sparkles, I've been away, so sorry about the delayed response. But there are two qualifiers to what you're saying about Jocketty/Luhnow. First, IMO Luhnow was brought in less to stop Tino deals or what-not and more to build a hundred million dollar development machine, and it's just not there yet. Eventually there's some relationship between the two, but again they're not there yet. Second, there's the PR aspect of starting Reyes or Thompson that you've already mentioned. While it was pretty stupid to put themselves in this position, they are in this position.