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Littlefield has acquired a reputation throughout MLB as a difficult trading partner, in that his demands during negotiations are often seen as grossly excessive.
Littlefield has traded players such as Jason Schmidt, Jason Kendall, Sean Casey, Aramis RamÃrez, Chris Young, Gary Matthews Jr., and Kenny Lofton for little or nothing in return. While small market teams thrive on trading established veterans for packages of talented minor leaguers, Littlefield has repeatedly asked for lower-ceiling "major league ready" prospects in return. As a result, the Pirates have a plethora of mid-to-late 20's, borderline major leaguers, and very few young, impact prospects within the system. This strategy runs contrary to that of successful low-payroll teams like the A's, Twins, and Marlins.
Even his most successful trade was of a somewhat dubious nature. In 2003, Littlefield approached the San Diego Padres with a trade proposal in which the Pirates would receive Xavier Nady, Oliver Perez, and minor league pitcher Cory Stewart in exchange for star outfielder Brian Giles. The Padres refused to surrender Nady, so Littlefield and the Pirates agreed to accept Jason Bay instead.[3] Bay immediately emerged as a star, winning the National League Rookie of the Year award in 2004, while Nady spent the next three seasons as a part-time player with the Padres and the New York Mets. Two years later, Littlefield was successful in trading for Nady. Unfortunately for the Pirates, in order to do so he had to surrender struggling star pitcher Oliver Perez, who has become a better pitcher for New York, as well as veteran reliever Roberto Hernandez and the compensatory draft pick the Mets received when Hernandez left as a free agent that offseason.
Among his worst transactions to date was the trade of pitcher Chris Young, in whom the Pirates had invested $1.5 million, to Montreal for Matt Herges in December of 2002. Herges was promptly released in spring training, while Young has developed into one of the best young pitchers in baseball. Similarly, the 21-year-old Leo Nunez was traded to Kansas City in December of 2004; in return, the Pirates received 39-year-old Benito Santiago. Nunez was used as a reliever in 2005 and 2006, and in 2007 has emerged as one of Kansas City's most promising starters; Santiago had 6 hits with the Pirates before being released one month into the 2005 season. The inability to obtain significant returns on trades has been a staple of the Dave Littlefield era, and a key reason why the franchise has lost for 15 consecutive years.
On July 31, 2007, Littlefield made one of the most confounding trades in baseball history. He traded outfielder Rajai Davis to the San Francisco Giants for pitcher Matt Morris. The move has been widely criticized, as Morris, who was 7-7 with a 4.35 ERA at the time of the trade, is slated to make $9.5 million in 2008. Many were surprised that the Pirates would take on such a large contract (especially without having the Giants pick up part of it), as their 2007 Opening Day payroll was just $38.5 million. At the time of the trade, the Pirates were 42-62, 14.5 games out of first place.
I suppose that answers the question of whether the new CEO will be required to keep Littlefield on as GM.
The article inplies that Nutting will be hiring the GM:
The firing was made by principal owner Bob Nutting, who already had been searching for a new CEO to replace outgoing Kevin McClatchy and now will add the general manager's post to that list.
Wouldn't it make more sense for the new CEO to hire the GM?
10. TerpNats
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:17 AM (#2515180)
And there was joy throughout western Pennsylvania...among fans who weren't busy putting on their Steelers outfits.
The timing of this doesn't make any sense (why not just wait three weeks?)
I'm wondering if Nutting hadn't found that none of the CEO candidates he interviewed were interested in Littlefield. Perhaps he decided to get rid of DL now, in order to get his desired CEO. I suppose if the CEO is announced in the near future, that might be a clue.
until you realize that it's the Pirates.
Or it could just be this.
18. Dan Turkenkopf
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:24 AM (#2515194)
The timing of this doesn't make any sense (why not just wait three weeks?), until you realize that it's the Pirates.
Maybe Nutting is worried the Astros are going to hire the candidate he wants?
19. Dan Turkenkopf
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:25 AM (#2515195)
Did Vlad write that Wiki entry?
Either Vlad or Cripsix mentioned they were a WIkipedian in the wiki-groaning thread.
I think it was Vlad. I also seem to remember him complaining that someone from MLB changed pieces of it, but I could be making that part up.
20. asinwreck
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:25 AM (#2515196)
Part of our long national nightmare is over. But the Nuttings still own the team.
21. BourbonSamurai
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:25 AM (#2515198)
Ah, sweet justice...
22. Kiko Sakata
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:27 AM (#2515201)
The timing of this doesn't make any sense (why not just wait three weeks?), until you realize that it's the Pirates.
That's what I thought at first too, but actually it makes a certain amount of sense under the "Pirates want to lose and run a stable profit" argument. Under that scenario, the reason to fire Littlefield isn't because he's done a bad job but because he's a PR liability. Firing him during the season could give the Pirates a little attendance boost here at the end of an otherwise dreary season as it gives Pirates fans some hope that change is just around the corner.
And honestly, there's probably no real downside to opening the job up this early - a few more weeks to find the right next candidate.
Heh... somehow I wouldn't feel confident about the director of player development stepping up to the GM's chair if I were one of the 9 remaining Pirates fans, seeing as how their farm system has, like the medical staff and the GM, also been the biggest running joke in baseball for ten years.
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
24. Hack Wilson
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:27 AM (#2515203)
Sad sad day. Only 10 1/2 games out. I blame the cheater Ankiel's home runs for this.
25. pep21
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:28 AM (#2515204)
About freakin' time! What took'em so long?!
Was he the same guy who signed Mears and "operation shutdown" Derek Bell, Kevin Young and other stiffs?
27. pkb33
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:31 AM (#2515210)
Gotta figure the people interviewing for the CEO spot said they prefer Littlefield gone before they arrive, don't you? That would make sense and also fit the timing.
28. Kiko Sakata
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:32 AM (#2515212)
Heh... somehow I wouldn't feel confident about the director of player development stepping up to the GM's chair if I were one of the 9 remaining Pirates fans, seeing as how their farm system has, like the medical staff and the GM, also been the biggest running joke in baseball for ten years.
But that's only on an interim basis, I assume, right? And really, there's absolutely nothing for the interim GM to do over the next month anyway, is there?
See, if they fire Littlefield and hire his replacement in the offseason, then the gain from firing Littlefield could be offset by the disappointment at who they hire to replace him. Here, delusional optimistic Pirates fans (and no offense to any posters here, but at this point don't you kind of have to delusional and unreasonably optimistic to be a Pirates fan?), can imagine that the next GM will be great before seeing that hope dashed several months from now.
29. MSI
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:32 AM (#2515213)
Was the Jose Hernandez trade one of the worst of all time?
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
Phil Seghi?
31. Pl Msrkwks
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:36 AM (#2515218)
Gotta figure the people interviewing for the CEO spot said they prefer Littlefield gone before they arrive, don't you? That would make sense and also fit the timing.
I'd hate to have my first order of business upon being hired to a new position to fire one of the organization's longest standing employees, regardless of his competence level. This is the only rational explanation for the timing of this move. Being the Pirates, of course, means it was made for an entirely different reason (does Bob Nutting have a daughter Littlefield might have slept with?).
32. Jimmy P
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:49 AM (#2515231)
This is the only rational explanation for the timing of this move.
Well, they get a head start on interviewing potential replacements. They've now got 3 weeks that the other teams who will fire their GMs won't have. While this strategy isn't used in pro sports much, it is used very effectively in college. UNC's firing of John Bunting last year to get a head start on hiring Butch Davis is a great example. They had Davis hired before a lot of other teams had even fired their coaches.
33. TFTIO
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:56 AM (#2515236)
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
Dude, those guys aren't even close to Dave Littlefield. The only guys even in the same galaxy as Littlefield are Matt Millen and Isiah Thomas.
35. Russ
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:58 AM (#2515241)
I don't think there's a word to describe this other than relief. Somewhere else, I said this, which is exactly how this news makes me feel:
It's kind of like when your bank account is down to your last
pennies and you know that you're going to get that direct deposit pay
check in your account at midnight, and even though you KNOW it's going
to be there, you're still so happy and relieved to see your balance jump
up after clicking refresh on your browser. Sweet, peaceful relief.
36. TFTIO
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 11:59 AM (#2515244)
I dinnae; I think McHale might be as bad as Thomas.
EDIT: However, I don't think either the Knicks or the Twolves fans were as badly served by Thomas and McHale, respectively, as Pirates fans have been by Littlefield. If the metric to measure a GM's competence is building a winning organization, Littlefield's the worst I've ever seen. But if (as you've argued) Littlefield has been executing front office instruction to explicitly not build a winning organization, if in other words the fan's expectations and the ownership's expectation are orthogonal, then perhaps Littlefield has been doing an excellent job -- just not the one that is intended to please the fan.
We'll probably hear the same retreads mentioned for this GM position as we've heard for the Astros' front office. The gap between what, say, "Baseball Prospectus" would recommend and what owners like is really stunning. If we hear Antonetti, Ng, LaCava, etc., I'll be shocked. Maybe if Duquette becomes CEO, he'd look towards new blood. But then the GM will have Duquette modifying his decisions (a la Lucchino/Theo).
I have no idea about the timing though. They couldn't have waited another month?
38. battlekow
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:02 PM (#2515252)
Former Tigers GM Randy Smith
Former Royals GM Allard Baird
Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar
ESPN analyst John Kruk
Lions GM Matt Millen
Former FEMA Director Mike Brown
An inanimate carbon rod
40. JPWF13
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:06 PM (#2515257)
And honestly, there's probably no real downside to opening the job up this early - a few more weeks to find the right next candidate.
Plus the new GM might have time to look at the organization and figure out how not to lose McCutcheon in the rule 5 draft...
41. asinwreck
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:16 PM (#2515264)
Was he the same guy who signed Mears and "operation shutdown" Derek Bell, Kevin Young and other stiffs?
Pat Meares was extended on Cam Bonifay's watch, and I believe Young was as well. Bell was Littlefield's.
The Pirates have not have competent management since Syd Thrift was fired.
42. battlekow
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:17 PM (#2515266)
An inanimate carbon rod
A cadmium rod might be more useful. That and a lot of concrete.
43. retro-shiite
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:22 PM (#2515271)
Littlefield rumored to become Cubs scouting director in the off season.
/joke
Dude, don't even joke about crap like that.
FWIW, the Cubs' actual scouting director (Tim Wilken) has an excellent track record with other teams (he was hired by the Cubs in the 05-06 offseason)--we'll see how the last couple Cub drafts pan out.
44. andrewberg
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:24 PM (#2515274)
For the last 2 years, the only excuse I have heard for why Littlefield has kept his job is that he is a good lackey for the ownership. He was supposed to keep costs low as long as fans kept paying to sit in the shiny ballpark that their tax dollars subsidized, and the ownership would keep raking in profits. In a business sense, he may have been the perfect GM for the job. Through those lenses, the timing indicates to me that the ownership was worried that his failures were finally starting to become a PR negative for the fans; that he was in fact so bad that people would stop paying to spend a day at the park even though the team stunk. By hiring a new GM, the ownership gets a grace period where fans will let the administration sort out the previous one's mess, and the team can still keep payroll down, still make profits, and put off worrying about contending (and spending money) for a few more years.
45. chemdoc
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:25 PM (#2515276)
The Pirates plan on interviewing:
Former Tigers GM Randy Smith
Former Royals GM Allard Baird
Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar
ESPN analyst John Kruk
Lions GM Matt Millen
Former FEMA Director Mike Brown
An inanimate carbon rod
Clearly the carbon rod is the most qualified to evaluate the inner workings of the diamond.
46. Dewitty_Pun
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:25 PM (#2515279)
They should sign Paul DePodesta. He has experience working with the Pirates' current manager.
They should sign Paul DePodesta. He has experience working with the Pirates' current manager.
In the interest of my black, black heart, I would love for DePo to get to fire Tracy again. C'mon, that's just fun!
53. Randy Jones
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:45 PM (#2515309)
The Pirates plan on interviewing:
Former Tigers GM Randy Smith
Former Royals GM Allard Baird
Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar
ESPN analyst John Kruk
Lions GM Matt Millen
Former FEMA Director Mike Brown
An inanimate carbon rod
So Steve Phillips is so bad he can't even make this list?
Dude, those guys aren't even close to Dave Littlefield. The only guys even in the same galaxy as Littlefield are Matt Millen and Isiah Thomas.
I hope the Clippers recent success hasn't erased in our minds the horrible, horrible failure of a GM that is Nipsy Russell, er, Elgin Baylor.
55. Andere Richtingen
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:48 PM (#2515314)
Regarding the Aramis Ramirez trade, that isn't one I necessarily blame on Littlefield. The Pirates were in fire sale mode, and the Cubs were the only takers for Ramirez's salary, which was significant, and he was a year away from free agency. Ramirez has been the picture of consistency for the Cubs, but he had a sketchy track record coming in. Bobby Hill, the now forgotten prospect given up, was not exactly chump change.
I criticized the move at the time from the Cubs' perspective, citing a continued tendency on their part for trading valuable players for what would soon mean the privilege of retaining them in free-agent level long-term contracts -- basically, paying for the player both in prospects and cash. Sure, they got a good player in Ramirez but I didn't think that was how good organizations operate.
56. Andere Richtingen
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:49 PM (#2515315)
Ramirez has been the picture of consistency for the Cubs, but he had a sketchy track record coming in.
Wasn't that sketchy track record due in part to the Pirates promoting him to the majors really quickly then having to send him back down because he wasn't ready?
Not that that was Littlefield's doing.
59. Steve Treder
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:55 PM (#2515329)
These are all current guys. The world didn't start in 2000. Wellington Mara had a pretty awful stretch with the New York Giants from 1964 to 1978.
No discussion of this topic can fail to make prominent mention of Bob Short's run as owner-GM of the Senators from 1969-71.
60. rfloh
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 12:55 PM (#2515330)
#55
ARam was 25 at the time of the trade. He was rushed to the majors, debuting at the age of 20.
Aramis Ramirez had a great 2001 followed by a poor 2002. However, this season was spoiled by injury. And in classic Pirate fashion management punished him by complaining about his work ethic when Aramis HAD tried to play through the boo-boo. So his 2003 got off to a ho-hum start because Aramis came into camp a bit hefty. Don't know for a fact but it's reasonable to assume a young guy was some kind of p*ssed being held up to public blame when he was trying to be the good foot solider. Not that Ramirez was or is perfect. He was slopper on defense back then and then AND now still loafs on ground balls.
But the fact was the lad could and can hit. And the Pirates gave him away because, well, they were stupid.......
63. MSI
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:18 PM (#2515369)
Brian Sabean, then maybe Bavasi, and its too soon to judge Daniels right?
64. Steve Treder
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:20 PM (#2515373)
So who's the worst GM in baseball now?
While he was a very good GM for several years, the fall-off-the-cliff decline in performance demonstrated by Brian Sabean has to make him a serious contender.
In the interest of my black, black heart, I would love for DePo to get to fire Tracy again. C'mon, that's just fun!
That's just awesome. Littlefield being fired, Steeler football starting, the Pens not going to Kansas City, Dave Wannstedt hasn't mutilated another season yet, it's a great time to be a Pittsburgh fan.
Also, when once asked if I could get away with killing one person, I instantly answered Dave Littlefield.
While he was a very good GM for several years, the fall-off-the-cliff decline in performance demonstrated by Brian Sabean has to make him a serious contender.
He seems to be getting his head out of his arse lately, though. The last couple of drafts have been strong, and that Villalona signing looks like a steal. I'd give him one more off season to prove he's not an idiot, especially now that they don't feel pressure to build a team around Bonds and can instead just build a team.
I don't think either has maximized their resources available. Not even close.................
71. Kyle S
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:29 PM (#2515390)
What makes matters worse (and what I was able to quickly find out from Aramis' bbref page, which now includes a link to his bbref_minors stats!) is how well he played in AAA after being called up way too early. In 1999, sent down after mediocre play in the majors at age 20, he hit .328/.420/.546 in AAA (but still struggled in his brief major league appearance). In 2000, still only 22, he hit .353/.393/.521 in the minors. Clearly this was a special talent. And what do the Pirates do? After one poor season, they send him packing at the ripe old age of 25.
72. Hack Wilson
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:38 PM (#2515398)
For utter incompetency Ken Harrelson may win the prize.
Best known for trading a very young Bobby Bonilla and firing TLR. He really had no idea of what a GM was supposed to do except playing a lot of golf.
He was so obviously out of his depth that he was canned after one year so he may not have the track record of some others mentioned.
73. frannyzoo
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:39 PM (#2515402)
No one has suggested Derek Bell yet, and I hear he's got plenty of free time on that ship. Or is it jail? I forget. Either way, tons of free time.
74. Dingbat Charlie
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:41 PM (#2515407)
the Orioles fan in me just collapsed in a seizure of bitter laughter.
I hear that young Gary Dell'abate has a promising arm.
75. Jim (jimmuscomp)
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 01:56 PM (#2515433)
Tommy Lasorda did a LOT of stupid stuff in 1/2 year as Dodger GM. Trading Konerko for Jeff Shaw and not realizing that Shaw was in the middle of a multi-year deal which would allow him to DEMAND a trade at the end of the 1/2 season.
Lasorda admitted not knowing about that rule...
I hate the Dodgers and Lasorda is a big reason why - he gets SO much love from the media and is pretty much a dullard. A motivational dullard, but dim nonetheless.
Personally, I think the Pirates should hire......me.
1) I come cheap. I have a friend with an apartment within walking distance of PNC Park, so I can be had with an incentive-laden contract.
2) I have no established track record of bad trades.
3) I've live near Tampa Bay, so I know how to run a team on a tight budget.
4) My g/f looks ####### in black and gold.
and, finally....
5) I'm not Dave Littlefield.
77. Steve Treder
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 02:25 PM (#2515494)
He seems to be getting his head out of his arse lately, though. The last couple of drafts have been strong, and that Villalona signing looks like a steal. I'd give him one more off season to prove he's not an idiot, especially now that they don't feel pressure to build a team around Bonds and can instead just build a team.
You're a lot more optimistic than I am.
And don't look now, but in this morning's paper Bonds was quoted as having talked with Magowan about how much Magowan hated the fact that Mays didn't retire as a Giant. And Bonds clearly has no intention of retiring ...
And don't look now, but in this morning's paper Bonds was quoted as having talked with Magowan about how much Magowan hated the fact that Mays didn't retire as a Giant. And Bonds clearly has no intention of retiring ...
Hmm. I kinda just assumed Bonds would be in Oakland next year as it makes sense for everyone. The Giants move on, Bonds stays close to hom and DH's, and the A's get some needed offense. Magowan really needs to step back and let Sabean run the team.
Ken Williams still has the distinct honor of getting ripped off by Dave Littlefield (Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie). I think he might be unique in that regard.
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
Ted Stepien? Dwight Clark?
Bob Pulford.
83. Walt Davis
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 02:41 PM (#2515522)
My g/f looks ####### in black and gold.
I'll admit, I'm stumped. I can think of a naughty word that wouldn't be complimentary to your g/f but that wouldn't be a reason to hire you. Were ####### followed by "good" or even "A", I'd have a good idea.
Anyway, I suggest sending a picture of your g/f to Nutting along with your resume. Of course, I haven't seen a picture of Littlefield's significant other so I don't know if you're more qualified for the GM role than he was or not.
87. Jimmy P
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 02:57 PM (#2515562)
Bob Pulford.
Dear lord, yes. He is an absolute moron.
88. Jimmy P
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 02:59 PM (#2515563)
Ken Williams still has the distinct honor of getting ripped off by Dave Littlefield (Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie). I think he might be unique in that regard.
Didn't Littlefield acquire Bay and Oliver Perez for an aging Brian Giles? That's a better payoff than Wells, Fogg, and Lowe. And that is still one of the dumbest trades I've ever seen.
90. Steve Treder
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:04 PM (#2515572)
Magowan really needs to step back and let Sabean run the team.
I'd say this is half right.
91. TerpNats
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:19 PM (#2515589)
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
Are we all forgetting Spec Richardson?
92. Joe Dimino
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:24 PM (#2515597)
"Didn't Littlefield acquire Bay and Oliver Perez for an aging Brian Giles? That's a better payoff than Wells, Fogg, and Lowe. And that is still one of the dumbest trades I've ever seen."
Except that Oliver Perez had no payoff to the Pirates. Unless you count Xavier Nady as a payoff.
You can't count acquiring a player in your favor if you subsequently destroy his mechanics and confidence through the pitching coach you decided to hire.
93. Swan
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:30 PM (#2515605)
Okay, so here is the reason he was fired three weeks before the season ended:
"09/07/2007 11:18 AM ET
Chairman Nutting's letter to fans
Pittsburgh Pirates
Dear Pirates Fans:
Today I announced that I have made the decision to relieve Dave Littlefield of his general managerial duties effective immediately. Brian Graham, our Senior Director of Player Development, will serve as interim General Manager to ensure a stable operation until a permanent replacement is found.
After eight months of listening and analyzing the situation, it has become clear that this decision was necessary to move our organization forward. While there are many bright spots for us to build from, I am not satisfied with the overall performance and progress that has been made.
I felt the time was right to announce my decision to ensure our organization is in the best possible position to attract the very best General Manager candidates. In addition to allowing more time to search for an eventual replacement, it should allow more time for our new General Manager to make the necessary evaluations and staffing decisions."
94. Johnny Grubb
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:33 PM (#2515610)
Kevin Goldstein seems to think that of the Houston job, the presumed Baltimore job, and the Pittsburgh job... Pittsburgh is by far the most desirable because of lack of ownership meddling. (Last question of linked chat)
95. Cris E
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:40 PM (#2515618)
After eight months of listening and analyzing the situation, it has become clear that this decision was necessary...
What happened eight months ago? This wasn't a recent development that just sprang from February's frosty earth.
96. Swan
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 03:50 PM (#2515632)
What I want to know is, why did it take Nutting 8 months to figure out DL was a dud?
97. Greg Schuler
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 04:03 PM (#2515647)
So when does Littlefield expose the Pirates - I mean, it was proved here beyond a reasonable tinfoil hat that the Pirates were losing on purpose. And Littlefield had to be involved!
98. Steve Treder
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 04:16 PM (#2515660)
it was proved here beyond a reasonable tinfoil hat that the Pirates were losing on purpose. And Littlefield had to be involved!
Yeah, the purveyor of that interesting conspiracy theory (was it Baron von Awesome?) has been strangely silent on this turn of events.
I guess this means BVA is already wearing a pair of cement shoes?
99. Jimmy P
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 04:22 PM (#2515663)
Except that Oliver Perez had no payoff to the Pirates. Unless you count Xavier Nady as a payoff.
Ok. Even then, Jason Bay has proven to be by far Littlefield's best acquisition. Even if Bay's season this year was a piece of flaming dog turd.
100. andrewberg
Posted: September 07, 2007 at 04:41 PM (#2515680)
WARP since the trade: Giles- 27.7, Bay- 32.3
Salary since trade: Giles- about $35m, Bay- about $5m
Even without Perez being part of the bounty, it was a solid trade.
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(sorry BBC)
/joke
First Tim Purpura is fired by a meddling owner, now Littlefield. What is this world coming to?
The article inplies that Nutting will be hiring the GM:
Wouldn't it make more sense for the new CEO to hire the GM?
Maybe JP will be next...
Either Vlad or Cripsix mentioned they were a WIkipedian in the wiki-groaning thread.
I'm wondering if Nutting hadn't found that none of the CEO candidates he interviewed were interested in Littlefield. Perhaps he decided to get rid of DL now, in order to get his desired CEO. I suppose if the CEO is announced in the near future, that might be a clue.
until you realize that it's the Pirates.
Or it could just be this.
Maybe Nutting is worried the Astros are going to hire the candidate he wants?
I think it was Vlad. I also seem to remember him complaining that someone from MLB changed pieces of it, but I could be making that part up.
That's what I thought at first too, but actually it makes a certain amount of sense under the "Pirates want to lose and run a stable profit" argument. Under that scenario, the reason to fire Littlefield isn't because he's done a bad job but because he's a PR liability. Firing him during the season could give the Pirates a little attendance boost here at the end of an otherwise dreary season as it gives Pirates fans some hope that change is just around the corner.
And honestly, there's probably no real downside to opening the job up this early - a few more weeks to find the right next candidate.
Thus ends the career of the worst general manager in the history of professional sports.
Was he the same guy who signed Mears and "operation shutdown" Derek Bell, Kevin Young and other stiffs?
But that's only on an interim basis, I assume, right? And really, there's absolutely nothing for the interim GM to do over the next month anyway, is there?
See, if they fire Littlefield and hire his replacement in the offseason, then the gain from firing Littlefield could be offset by the disappointment at who they hire to replace him. Here, delusional optimistic Pirates fans (and no offense to any posters here, but at this point don't you kind of have to delusional and unreasonably optimistic to be a Pirates fan?), can imagine that the next GM will be great before seeing that hope dashed several months from now.
Phil Seghi?
I'd hate to have my first order of business upon being hired to a new position to fire one of the organization's longest standing employees, regardless of his competence level. This is the only rational explanation for the timing of this move. Being the Pirates, of course, means it was made for an entirely different reason (does Bob Nutting have a daughter Littlefield might have slept with?).
Well, they get a head start on interviewing potential replacements. They've now got 3 weeks that the other teams who will fire their GMs won't have. While this strategy isn't used in pro sports much, it is used very effectively in college. UNC's firing of John Bunting last year to get a head start on hiring Butch Davis is a great example. They had Davis hired before a lot of other teams had even fired their coaches.
Kevin McHale?
It's kind of like when your bank account is down to your last
pennies and you know that you're going to get that direct deposit pay
check in your account at midnight, and even though you KNOW it's going
to be there, you're still so happy and relieved to see your balance jump
up after clicking refresh on your browser. Sweet, peaceful relief.
EDIT: However, I don't think either the Knicks or the Twolves fans were as badly served by Thomas and McHale, respectively, as Pirates fans have been by Littlefield. If the metric to measure a GM's competence is building a winning organization, Littlefield's the worst I've ever seen. But if (as you've argued) Littlefield has been executing front office instruction to explicitly not build a winning organization, if in other words the fan's expectations and the ownership's expectation are orthogonal, then perhaps Littlefield has been doing an excellent job -- just not the one that is intended to please the fan.
I have no idea about the timing though. They couldn't have waited another month?
Former Tigers GM Randy Smith
Former Royals GM Allard Baird
Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar
ESPN analyst John Kruk
Lions GM Matt Millen
Former FEMA Director Mike Brown
An inanimate carbon rod
Plus the new GM might have time to look at the organization and figure out how not to lose McCutcheon in the rule 5 draft...
Pat Meares was extended on Cam Bonifay's watch, and I believe Young was as well. Bell was Littlefield's.
The Pirates have not have competent management since Syd Thrift was fired.
A cadmium rod might be more useful. That and a lot of concrete.
/joke
Dude, don't even joke about crap like that.
FWIW, the Cubs' actual scouting director (Tim Wilken) has an excellent track record with other teams (he was hired by the Cubs in the 05-06 offseason)--we'll see how the last couple Cub drafts pan out.
Clearly the carbon rod is the most qualified to evaluate the inner workings of the diamond.
Good Luck!
These are all current guys. The world didn't start in 2000. Wellington Mara had a pretty awful stretch with the New York Giants from 1964 to 1978.
In the interest of my black, black heart, I would love for DePo to get to fire Tracy again. C'mon, that's just fun!
Former Tigers GM Randy Smith
Former Royals GM Allard Baird
Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar
ESPN analyst John Kruk
Lions GM Matt Millen
Former FEMA Director Mike Brown
An inanimate carbon rod
So Steve Phillips is so bad he can't even make this list?
I hope the Clippers recent success hasn't erased in our minds the horrible, horrible failure of a GM that is Nipsy Russell, er, Elgin Baylor.
I criticized the move at the time from the Cubs' perspective, citing a continued tendency on their part for trading valuable players for what would soon mean the privilege of retaining them in free-agent level long-term contracts -- basically, paying for the player both in prospects and cash. Sure, they got a good player in Ramirez but I didn't think that was how good organizations operate.
Good. Lord.
I understand Syd did some good work with the Pirates, but the Orioles fan in me just collapsed in a seizure of bitter laughter.
Wasn't that sketchy track record due in part to the Pirates promoting him to the majors really quickly then having to send him back down because he wasn't ready?
Not that that was Littlefield's doing.
No discussion of this topic can fail to make prominent mention of Bob Short's run as owner-GM of the Senators from 1969-71.
ARam was 25 at the time of the trade. He was rushed to the majors, debuting at the age of 20.
Aramis Ramirez had a great 2001 followed by a poor 2002. However, this season was spoiled by injury. And in classic Pirate fashion management punished him by complaining about his work ethic when Aramis HAD tried to play through the boo-boo. So his 2003 got off to a ho-hum start because Aramis came into camp a bit hefty. Don't know for a fact but it's reasonable to assume a young guy was some kind of p*ssed being held up to public blame when he was trying to be the good foot solider. Not that Ramirez was or is perfect. He was slopper on defense back then and then AND now still loafs on ground balls.
But the fact was the lad could and can hit. And the Pirates gave him away because, well, they were stupid.......
While he was a very good GM for several years, the fall-off-the-cliff decline in performance demonstrated by Brian Sabean has to make him a serious contender.
Having now had the time to look them up I see that Ramirez might also have been promoted from high-A ball straight to the majors.
That's just awesome. Littlefield being fired, Steeler football starting, the Pens not going to Kansas City, Dave Wannstedt hasn't mutilated another season yet, it's a great time to be a Pittsburgh fan.
Also, when once asked if I could get away with killing one person, I instantly answered Dave Littlefield.
Management's determination to alienate their best player is a bizarre strategy of the highest order.....................
He seems to be getting his head out of his arse lately, though. The last couple of drafts have been strong, and that Villalona signing looks like a steal. I'd give him one more off season to prove he's not an idiot, especially now that they don't feel pressure to build a team around Bonds and can instead just build a team.
I don't think either has maximized their resources available. Not even close.................
Best known for trading a very young Bobby Bonilla and firing TLR. He really had no idea of what a GM was supposed to do except playing a lot of golf.
He was so obviously out of his depth that he was canned after one year so he may not have the track record of some others mentioned.
I hear that young Gary Dell'abate has a promising arm.
Lasorda admitted not knowing about that rule...
I hate the Dodgers and Lasorda is a big reason why - he gets SO much love from the media and is pretty much a dullard. A motivational dullard, but dim nonetheless.
1) I come cheap. I have a friend with an apartment within walking distance of PNC Park, so I can be had with an incentive-laden contract.
2) I have no established track record of bad trades.
3) I've live near Tampa Bay, so I know how to run a team on a tight budget.
4) My g/f looks ####### in black and gold.
and, finally....
5) I'm not Dave Littlefield.
You're a lot more optimistic than I am.
And don't look now, but in this morning's paper Bonds was quoted as having talked with Magowan about how much Magowan hated the fact that Mays didn't retire as a Giant. And Bonds clearly has no intention of retiring ...
I'm not a Bucs fan by any stretch but a team with such a storied past deserves to have something to look forward to.
I really hope both they and the Royals finally start showing major signs of life.
Heck it wasn't that long ago that the Mariners and Indians were considered jokes (remember that episode of "Family Ties"?)
Best Regards
John
Hmm. I kinda just assumed Bonds would be in Oakland next year as it makes sense for everyone. The Giants move on, Bonds stays close to hom and DH's, and the A's get some needed offense. Magowan really needs to step back and let Sabean run the team.
Ted Stepien? Dwight Clark?
Ted Stepien? Dwight Clark?
Bob Pulford.
I'll admit, I'm stumped. I can think of a naughty word that wouldn't be complimentary to your g/f but that wouldn't be a reason to hire you. Were ####### followed by "good" or even "A", I'd have a good idea.
Anyway, I suggest sending a picture of your g/f to Nutting along with your resume. Of course, I haven't seen a picture of Littlefield's significant other so I don't know if you're more qualified for the GM role than he was or not.
b-i-t-c-h-i-n ?
EDIT: crap, slow reload.
Dear lord, yes. He is an absolute moron.
Didn't Littlefield acquire Bay and Oliver Perez for an aging Brian Giles? That's a better payoff than Wells, Fogg, and Lowe. And that is still one of the dumbest trades I've ever seen.
You are all my #######!
I'd say this is half right.
Except that Oliver Perez had no payoff to the Pirates. Unless you count Xavier Nady as a payoff.
You can't count acquiring a player in your favor if you subsequently destroy his mechanics and confidence through the pitching coach you decided to hire.
"09/07/2007 11:18 AM ET
Chairman Nutting's letter to fans
Pittsburgh Pirates
Dear Pirates Fans:
Today I announced that I have made the decision to relieve Dave Littlefield of his general managerial duties effective immediately. Brian Graham, our Senior Director of Player Development, will serve as interim General Manager to ensure a stable operation until a permanent replacement is found.
After eight months of listening and analyzing the situation, it has become clear that this decision was necessary to move our organization forward. While there are many bright spots for us to build from, I am not satisfied with the overall performance and progress that has been made.
I felt the time was right to announce my decision to ensure our organization is in the best possible position to attract the very best General Manager candidates. In addition to allowing more time to search for an eventual replacement, it should allow more time for our new General Manager to make the necessary evaluations and staffing decisions."
From Nuttings open letter to the fans:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070907&content_id=2194217&vkey=news_pit&fext;=.jsp&c_id=pit
What happened eight months ago? This wasn't a recent development that just sprang from February's frosty earth.
Yeah, the purveyor of that interesting conspiracy theory (was it Baron von Awesome?) has been strangely silent on this turn of events.
I guess this means BVA is already wearing a pair of cement shoes?
Ok. Even then, Jason Bay has proven to be by far Littlefield's best acquisition. Even if Bay's season this year was a piece of flaming dog turd.
Salary since trade: Giles- about $35m, Bay- about $5m
Even without Perez being part of the bounty, it was a solid trade.
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