Memo to Adam LaRoche: if you're going to declare yourself a team leader, you have to do things that a team leader does such ensure that this sort of discontent is not aired in public, especially when the discontent involves specific criticism of the guys that are coming to join your team. Lamenting the loss of a friend and valuable veteran is fine, but this kind of thing isn't helpful to anyone.

People here in town are pissed about the trade. Even the ones who like the theory behind it are unhappy about losing Nate.

A sizable minority of the crowd yesterday actually booed McCutchen in his first AB, apparently as a commentary on the trade.

Huh, read that as ANDY LaRoche and was a little confused why a guy who has played roughly half a season for the team was ########.

“It’s kind of like being with your platoon in a battle, and guys keep dropping around you. You keep hanging on, hanging on, and you’ve got to figure: How much longer till you sink?”

No. It is not kind of like that.

No. It is not kind of like that.

Thank you. "Oh no, they traded away one of my friends and now I'll have to make my millions without him around" <> "Somebody plug the ####### hole in Bobby's gut so he doesn't bleed out." I'm sure Adam LaRoche is upset that one of their better players is gone. I'm sure he's upset because he knows this means his team will suck for another year or three, at least. But it's not war.

Remember after 9/11 when we were going to end stupid war metaphors in sports forever? That lasted about two weeks.

The speculation is that Jack's "flu" yesterday was actually just him getting time to cool off after he heard about the trade.

This kind of brings up an important point about fire sales. You can't just do them halfway for this exact reason. Rebuilding for later is a legitimate strategy and I would have been very open to trading McLouth for that reason.

However, once you start, you have to complete it very quickly because there are going to be other players that know that they're not going to be around for later and don't want to think that they're simply hanging out and wasting time. It's bad for a franchise to get a reputation as a place that wastes the time of veteran players and at some point in the rebuild, the Pirates are going to be bringing at least a few in. They're certainly not going to lure in many desired players with overbidding and after being bad for a whole generation of players, they have to watch their reputation as much as possible.

Remember after 9/11 when we were going to end stupid war metaphors in sports forever?

Please, the NFL would have to fold.

The natural experiment which the last two years have brought us, in which we see the difference in fan reactions between
A) a team spending months bellowing that it absolutely has to trade an outfielder and is spending all its time trying to trade him, before finally trading him at the last possible moment
and
B) the same team trading an outfielder with no warning at all, two years before anyone thought such a thing would be possible

suggests that option A is better by far. One might say that people's opinion of Pirates management could not get much lower than it has been for the last eight years anyway, so it doesn't matter. But really we're in a situation here where the idea of the Pirates actually having a good team is literally unbelievable, so the remaining well-wishers (I can't really say "fans") resort instead to hoping for a team with players they like. And management is taking that away too.

All I can say is that although there are some signs visible to experts that the Pirates' strategies differ from those which have produced results ranging from all the way from 62 wins and sixth place to 75 wins and fourth place over the last decade -- such as the fact that they haven't acquired any useless veterans since Littlefield went away, they've only acquired prospects -- there are zero casual "fans" who think Huntington/Coonelly/Nutting differ in any way from Littlefield/Nutting.

Although they may have a plan, there will never be any benefit of the doubt until either the ownership changes or they are in a playoff race in September and the media doesn't think it's a fluke.

So far to the public it appears that nothing has changed. However, the Littlefield regime NEVER EVER traded a player without announcing months ahead of time that they were desperate to trade him. So if there are other instances of this new non-wishy-washy approach, people may notice. Littlefield would have probably kept Matt Morris around for the entire 2008 season to give up two runs a game as a long reliever, too, instead of cutting him in May.

Remember after 9/11 when we were going to end stupid war metaphors in sports forever?

Please, the NFL would have to fold.

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

George Carlin is missed.

However, once you start, you have to complete it very quickly

Yes, the Pirates should trade Jack Wilson and his salary* to the Mets for some A baller...

I make that suggestion insofar as it would be pretty harmless and might forestall Omar doing something really stoopid.

*Which then should be earmarked for the draft so the Pirates can go over slot for the best player available.

Is Adam LaRoche next? Isn't he an impending FA? Who do they have to replace him anyway? Is Pedro Alvarez going to move to 1B (I've heard his defense isn't stellar and they already have the other LaRoche at 3B)

Is Adam LaRoche next?

Doesn't LaRoche to the Giants make all the sense in the world for both teams?

I thought maybe they were upset because they didn't get traded off the Pirates. Pure jealousy.

Doesn't LaRoche to the Giants make all the sense in the world for both teams?

What do the Giants have to give up which the Pirates want?

I'm honestly curious, since I can't say that I know a damn thing about either Minor League system.

The Pirates aren't desperate enough for money that a trade involving Adam LaRoche and no other players would make sense.

What do the Giants have to give up which the Pirates want?

They pay LaRoche's freight? The Giants actually have a fair # of prospects, too.

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

Fantastic.

I'm a ####### soldier!

"They're certainly not going to lure in many desired players with overbidding and after being bad for a whole generation of players, they have to watch their reputation as much as possible."

In theory this is a very solid point, but in practice, I'm not sure the Pirates' rep with veteran FAs could get much worse. I mean, two years ago, Paul Bako took less money to play somewhere else. At some point, you really can't sink any lower.

"They pay LaRoche's freight? The Giants actually have a fair # of prospects, too."

Money really isn't an issue right now. And they'd need to get some talent back, in that LaRoche is looking like at least a Type B this offseason.

The Pirates need just about everything, but the biggest system holes are SP, C, and power bats.

And they'd need to get some talent back, in that LaRoche is looking like at least a Type B this offseason.

You think they'd offer him arb? He seems like one of those guys in the gray area on that.

Please, the NFL would have to fold.

As long as we have gambling, steroids & idiots, the NFL is safe.

I thought maybe they were upset because they didn't get traded off the Pirates. Pure jealousy.

Attention ladies and gentlemen! Please stop posting. We have a winner!

"You think they'd offer him arb?"

If he's not traded? Sure. The payroll's already low, they can't get FAs to take their money, and he's significantly better than the other internal options (Moss or Pearce).

If he's not traded? Sure. The payroll's already low, they can't get FAs to take their money, and he's significantly better than the other internal options (Moss or Pearce).

It'll be interesting. After last offseason, LaRoche should jump on any offer for arb.

It'll be interesting. After last offseason, LaRoche should jump on any offer for arb.

I'll agree with this - I question how much demand there will be on the FA market for a hitter like LaRoche, especially if it'll also cost a team a pick to sign him.

In theory this is a very solid point, but in practice, I'm not sure the Pirates' rep with veteran FAs could get much worse. I mean, two years ago, Paul Bako took less money to play somewhere else. At some point, you really can't sink any lower.

And somewhere else was the Orioles!

It'll depend if he's a type A or type B free agent. Marginal type A's should accept arbitration, but type Bs don't cost the signing team a pick, so they should probably at least test the market.

Am I the only person alive who likes this trade for the Pirates?

Am I the only person alive who likes this trade for the Pirates?

No. Go read the TO thread.

What do the Giants have to give up which the Pirates want?

The same thing that everybody else wants: Bumgarner, Posey, and Alderson :) Not that anyone is likely to GET those guys, of course.

-- MWE

The same thing that everybody else wants: Bumgarner, Posey, and Alderson :) Not that anyone is likely to GET those guys, of course.

Yeah, those guys are near untouchable, I'd think. The Pirates won't get a whiff of prospects that good from anyone for LaRoche.

LaRoche is only making $7 M this year. If he accepts arb, hard to see him getting more than $9-10 ... and that's about what he should get on the open market too where he might be able to get a 2-3 year contract. Unless his defense is awful, he's an average 1B. A number of teams will be in the market for a 1B next year -- Mets (probably), Giants, A's, maybe D-Backs, M's -- before he'd have to go scraping the bottom of the barrel. (OK, the A's are the bottom of the barrel)

LaRoche's defense was quite good in Atlanta. Not sure if he's maintained that in Pittsburgh, but when he came up his defense was very good.

Memo to Adam LaRoche: if you're going to declare yourself a team leader, you have to do things that a team leader does such ensure that this sort of discontent is not aired in public, especially when the discontent involves specific criticism of the guys that are coming to join your team. Lamenting the loss of a friend and valuable veteran is fine, but this kind of thing isn't helpful to anyone.

It sounded like LaRoche was saying McLouth was the leader, not him. And, is he supposed to be happy that they traded the team's best player? I read his comments as completely about losing McLouth, not about what they got in return. AND, it isn't as if the rest of the league doesn't already see that the Pirates don't care to be competitive.

I saw Posey in San Jose about 2 weeks ago and there is no way the Giants trade him. He will probably be at spring training next year and I woundn't be surprised to see him in the Sep call ups in 2010,