If anyone can figure out this riddle you let me know..........

Sample size?

Ha!

Always the wiseguy........

If Yost does go ahead and do this, would it be a point for or against him on his managerial resume? Generally, I'm no fan of Yost, but if he does this with his team in the middle of a pennant race (and his job already threatened, at least by unsubstantiated internet reports) that seems pretty ballsy.

Didn't Baseball Prospectus have some kind of "flakiness" stat to measure inconsistency? Bush has gotta be one of the all-time leaders. He'll give you an 8-inning, 13-strikeout game, then he'll be knocked out in the 5th.

This year he's given up 5 or more runs in 7 of his 17 starts, 1 run or less in 6 of them.

Bush has gotta be one of the all-time leaders.

Couldn't hold a candle to Jeff Weaver.

Elvis:

Yost has really changed with Ted Simmons sitting next to him in the dugout. He has disengaged from tactical approaches that were generating negative results and has been quicker to attack problems.

Ned Yost has done more good work in the past two months than he did in the previous two seasons combined.

The bullpen's issues have more to do with talent level involved than Yost's handling of the bullpen. His only remaining sign of foolishness is a persistent faith in Mota who couldn't get out a dead man these days. There is a lot of deadweight in the Crews relief corps. Since options are limited I suspect that Yost/Melvin are thinking of ways to maximize the starter output the last 2 odd months.

If Yost does go ahead and do this, would it be a point for or against him on his managerial resume? Generally, I'm no fan of Yost, but if he does this with his team in the middle of a pennant race (and his job already threatened, at least by unsubstantiated internet reports) that seems pretty ballsy.

I imagine it'll go the same way it does with any managerial decision. If it works, point for Yost. If it doesn't, point against.

I agree it's a risky move for Yost, but as you mention, he is already on the hot seat. I don't think the move indicates desperation, just a manager with six starters who wants to win the division. I like the idea though, as long as Yost can manage the two pitchers between starts well enough. This ought to be interesting.

If I were Yost, I would be most concerned with how Bush physically responded to the bullpen time. After all, he's largely been used in a starting role since he arrived in MLB, and might have trouble adjusting to going 10 days or more between starts.

Since both Bush and McClung have worked out of the bullpen my educated guess is that Yost would have them set aside for some dedicated work out of the bullpen. Wouldn't be a bad idea to give Manny or Suppan a caddy set aside for their starts since they rarely get beyond six innings.

Ryan:

Unlike Aaron Harang who has never been the same since working out of the bullpen earlier this season Dave Bush has managed to bounce back and forth without issue.

He doesn't LIKE IT. But as he also said, pitching in Milwaukee beats pitching in Nashville.......

Of course, I doubt anyone will notice that I have written kind words about Ned Yost. But it's here for the electronic records.......

Of course, I doubt anyone will notice that I have written kind words about Ned Yost. But it's here for the electronic records.......

We've all been stunned into silence. Give us a bit to get over the shock, and the comments will start pouring in.

Oh, I noticed, Harv....

And I have to agree. The tactical miscues have been rarer (simply because he's injecting himself into the game less, and just letting the players play), and he's really shown an aptitude for considering new (often good) ideas.

who:

Don't know if anyone else noticed but when Ryan Braun was invited to the Home Run Derby he spoke to club officials about his participation despite a sore wrist but Ryan did NOT speak to Yost about it. Remember, it was Ryan who spoke out in late May about the club's malaise. Again, to the media as opposed to through his manager.

Makes one wonder what is going on in the clubhouse. Certainly Fielder isn't as boisterous or cheerful this season. Ned's THING was the player personnel handling aspect of the job. Would hate to discover that to make him more Strat-O-Matic capble he had to sacrifice his best managerial asset.

Are the Brewers seriously asking around for Ray Durham? Have they given up on Weeks?

I looked at this last night and posted this at brewerfant.net. Suppan is on the DL but is targeted to come back on 7/22. The Crew starts out at the Giants, so McClung would get the first start through the rotation.

7/23 CC 7/24 Sheets 7/25 Parra 7/26 Bush
7/27 Suppan 7/28 CC 7/29 Sheets 7/30 Parra
7/31 Bush 8/1 Suppan 8/2 CC 8/3 Sheets
8/4 Parra 8/5 McClung 8/6 Suppan 8/7 offday
8/8 CC 8/9 Sheets 8/10 Parra 8/11 Bush
8/12 Suppan 8/13 CC 8/14 Sheets 8/15 Parra
8/16 McClung 8/17 Suppan 8/18 CC 8/19 Sheets
8/20 Parra (or put Bush here and Parra goes to BP for a short period to rest his arm and limit innings as some are suggesting)
8/21 offday 8/22 McClung 8/23 Suppan 8/24 CC
8/25 offday 8/26 Sheets 8/27 McClung/Parra
8/28 offday 8/29 Suppan 8/30 CC 8/31 Sheets
9/1 Bush 9/2 McClung/Parra 9/3 Suppan 9/4 CC
9/5 Sheets 9/6 Bush 9/7 McClung/Parra
9/8 Suppan 9/9...

I think Yost only goes out a month in advance, so I've done too much anyway, and this is obviously just guesswork.

levski:

I think Weeks has until the end of this season to show something.

Always the wiseguy........

Well, I am a White Sox fan, what do you expect.

BTW, that might be the answer, as depressingly lacking in action items as it sounds.

Are the Brewers seriously asking around for Ray Durham? Have they given up on Weeks?

I don't think they've given up on Weeks yet. But if he doesn't get hot after the ASB, I think there is a chance the team looks for a veteran 2B. Durham, Grudz, maybe Brian Roberts if the Orioles fall out of it.

I'm sure HW will yell at me if I'm wrong, but now that the Brewers have decided to go for it, I don't think they would let Weeks underperforming stop them from getting to the playoffs. That and a bullpen arm or two are the biggest weaknesses right now.

I'm sure HW will yell at me if I'm wrong

Fistful, everyone should volunteer their opinion.

And I agree completely. The bullpen is a pile of sh*t with two flowers growing (Torres/Shouse)

HW,

When Bush was in Toronto, we used to say that he had the ability to be Brad Radke. Over his career, he has pitched about as well as Radke with nobody on, but has really struggled with runners on (particularly with a runner on first base). I have no idea whether the cause is a mechanical problem with his delivery from the stretch, or if it relates to the effect of a divided focus.

Weeks for J Rauch or J Valverde. Do it!

Mike:

Dave's other problem his first two years was grooving a "hit me" fastball the first pitch to get ahead in the count. His numbers in 2006-2007 were way above the league average if I recall correctly.

He has all kinds of weird gaps in his game. Hence, he drives me nuts.

Post 22:

The Rauch idea is not absurd. Who suggested it to you? Ha!

what's Suppan's era. Answer 5.

1st half's his good half but Yost's way too smart to split #s based on irrelevant, random crap like endurance.

Would Brewer fans do an Aaron Heilman for Rickie Weeks deal?

Russlan:

Unlikely. Melvin prefers to make serious changes during the offseason. And Weeks has a lot of friends in the clubhouse. Being a mostly young team I wager Doug is concerned that the guys wouldn't cope well and a lost two weeks in this division is a ticket to a third place finish.

If I had to guess Melvin will offer up some grade B minor leaguers for an arm.

Would Brewer fans do an Aaron Heilman for Rickie Weeks deal?

I wouldn't, and I doubt the Brewers would. If Weeks doesn't turn it around immediately, I think he could be traded for Roberts (my opinion only, not representing the views of the FO). Roberts would be a huge upgrade over the only real hole among position players (Kendall is excluded, the pitchers love the way he calls the game).

If Weeks continues to slump and the Brewers trade for Grudz or Durham, I don't think Weeks needs to be included. He could be sent down for a little bit (I think he has one option left), or they could just bench him for the season and try him again next season.

I don't think the Brewers FO has any interest in dumping Weeks. I just have the personal opinion that they won't let his suckitude be the reason that they miss the playoffs this year.

I don't think the Mets and Brewers would do business during the season considering they might be competing with each other for a playoff spot. More importantly, I am not sure the Mets FO would do that anyway. Heilman is an integral part of their bullpen.

These sorts of pitcher platoons are kinda hard to pull off with current bullpen usage. I've tried this a couple times in DM simulation (R/L platoons, not H/A but same idea) seasons and it's not that easy.

The problem is: Your H pitcher starts today. 5 days from now your A pitcher is going to start. Since your H pitcher just pitched, he's not available for relief until maybe day 4; your A pitcher has a start coming up so he's not available for relief at all. Also your H pitcher probably didn't throw a full 6 innings and you just used 3-4 relievers to finish off his start.

So you're starting this stretch of 5 games with a 6-man bullpen with 3 at least somewhat tired arms and your available long reliever is scheduled to start in 5 days. You'll make it through that stretch OK most of the time but you're in bad shape if you get an early starter exit or an extra-inning game in the interim.

The best I could come up with was to basically always use the second pitcher for 2 innings of relief in games the first pitcher started. But that's not a particular great situation either given your 5th starters aren't usually very good pitchers and not the sorts you bring into high leverage situations.

True, teams used to be able to do this sort of thing all the time, but mostly when starters completed most games and/or relievers threw multiple innings. But when you're averaging 6 IP a start and 4-5 pitchers a game this is a lot trickier.

Walt:

Understood. Not to get in the mind of Ned Yost but my "guess" is that he is considering:

--Sabathia is typically good for 7 innings, not 6.
--that he will be riding Sheets like a broken down mule til he breaks
--that both Bush and McClung are accustomed to coming out of the pen and have shown the ability to bounce back with no ill effects from a "swing" role
--that during their respective starts the expectation will be for going deep into the game as opposed to a 6 inning start

The goal isn't so much optimizing based on splits but minimizing bullpen usage. Melvin can't find the arms and Ned doesn't understand proper bullpen management other than Torres gets guys out so I think the fallback plan is to avoid USING the bullpen as much as possible.

This has been confirmed by Yost tonight. McClung starts Monday, Bush on 7/26. It could change any time, but this is the course of action for now. The Brewers will need to make a move when Suppan comes off the DL for Tuesday's start.

Sabathia and Sheets and three days of retreats.

CC Sabathia's last two starts: 18IP 19K 1BB 3ER.

Not a bad acquisition for the Brewers.

Why not run a 6-man rotation out there?

CC and Sheets can still go every 5th day, but the other 4 (Suppan, Parra, Bush, McClung) can fill the rest of the spots. With October baseball looming, Parra/Suppan sure could use the lightened workload as much as Bush/McClung. Doing this would only disrupt one of these 4 starters once every 2.5 weeks, as opposed to every 10 days.

so who gets cut/demoted on Tuesday? I'd think the candidates are Mota, Stetter, and possibly Gagne. I think cutting Mota is probably the way to go, but it sounds like they want him to lose a few more games for them before they're convinced he hasn't regained his 2003 form. Gagne makes more money, so his leash will probably be longer than Mota's (even though that shouldn't really be a big factor, imo). I bet Stetter heads back down to Nashville. He has walked a few too many guys but his results have been a lot better than Mota's or Gagne's so far. Seeing him demoted will be a bit of a shame.

I think I would cut Mota and Gagne because that $14 million is already wasted, no need to let them drag the team down too. Bring Mark Difelice back up (who has a 16/0 k/bb ratio so far this season, which at least means that when someone hits one of his 85 MPH fastballs into the seats, there's no one on) and see who is available in trade. It seems too late in the season to be hoping that two guys who have been terrible for awhile now will turn it around.

Then again, relief pitching is pretty much always very prone to small sample size flukes, so maybe Gagne and Mota aren't quite as bad as they seem. I don't know, it's a tough call. I just can't picture anybody trusting either one of them in a tight game in late September or (hopefully) the playoffs. If that's the case, why bother keeping them?

I think it's possible that Dillon goes down again. He is basically just a pinch hitter right now. The need to sort out the bullpen for the rest of the season is probably more important than the impact that Dillon could have once a game or so.

I read that as Platoon possible for Bush, McCain

Of course, I doubt anyone will notice that I have written kind words about Ned Yost. But it's here for the electronic records.......

Yeah it's funny how everyone looks smarter when the team starts winning.

I think it's possible that Dillon goes down again.

True, but I think that would be a bad move when there are obvious candidates to be dumped from the bullpen. Is Kapler, Hall, Counsell, and Rivera enough of a bench? Maybe defensively, but I'm doubtful it's enough hitting while Yost never uses Rivera as a PH (almost literally- he's used him that way 2 times so far this year). If Yost uses Bill or Russ to PH for the other when a new pitcher comes in, he's then left with 2 bench bats for the rest of the game. I don't think that's enough.

Robert:

I don't know if that was intended as a "swipe" in my direction but the fact is that the Brewers had a BETTER record this time last year and I was CRUCIFYING Yost.

Why?

He had fragged the bullpen. Anyone with an ounce of brains could see disaster looming due to the usage patterns. Toss in his refusal to address some other obvious problems and Ned was feeling my wrath at BBTF.

Since mid to late May Yost has improved. My guess is that after the Gagne debacle Ned finally gave up on his "plan" and began to listen to bench coach Ted Simmons. It is Simmons who is responsible for:

--helping Kendall's throwinflg mechanics

--convincing Ned to stick to the rotation instead of jerking guys around so one guy can stay on an exact five day pattern

--having relievers pitch multi-inning sessions

--set loyalty aside in decision-making around personnel

These are HUGE steps forward for Yost. If Gagne doesn't get hurt I guarantee that Yost would have kept pushing him out there until his arm fell off.

But he DID get hurt, after Ned ignored Simmons about using Eric so much in April, and after that Yost has been FAR more receptive.

He's still stubborn (see Mota). But he is making strides.

It is rather shocking........

Fair enough. We'll see what happens when they hit another rough patch. I expect to hear something along the lines of "he's back to his old habits..."

Personally I think managers get way too much credit/blame.

Robert:

To be blunt I find posts like yours mostly posturing. Meaning that since you adhere to a philosophy toward a manager's contribution you view all comments via that prism ignoring the actual substance provided.

In all of my critical and complimentary posts regarding Yost I have provided factual info, data and specific examples, to support my claims.

And after all that I still am subjected to remarks where the poster is positioning my stance as just another hysterical fan reacting to the moment.

Go peddle that elsewhere. I know where I stand and I will stand on what I know.