Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, December 01, 2008

Primer Dugout 12-1-08

Happy Birthday to Walter Alston.

Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 09:16 AM | 55 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralDugout

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Mike Webber Posted: December 01, 2008 at 10:17 AM (#3017868)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?
   2. RB in NYC (Now with a Training Schedule!) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 10:27 AM (#3017870)
Why, The Hardball Times 2009 Baseball Annual, of course! Every Primate wants that. So buy copies. Many, many copies.

(Seriously, it's great stuff.)

Also, I assume, game tickets--I usually get some of those--beer and indie music.
   3. Craig Calcaterra Posted: December 01, 2008 at 10:27 AM (#3017872)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?


A simple acknowledgment from a woman who is not our mother bringing us more Hot Pockets?
   4. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 10:39 AM (#3017882)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?


Fatheads to decorate the basement. My wish is for more time to read and write. I've been reading the Power Broker since September and am only halfway through it. I'm also juggling three or four writing assignments and have an idea for another.

My other wish is that folks see this.
   5. jwb Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:04 AM (#3017891)
The arb deadline is midnight eastern. I was hoping it was 5pm, so we'd have some meaty topics to discuss this afternoon/evening. Another slow news day. Bah, humbug.
   6. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:15 AM (#3017896)
A kitten.
   7. Ryan Jones Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:28 AM (#3017907)
A kitten.


I have no idea where you live, but pretty much any Humane Society/SPCA office in North America will be happy to help you with that. A lot of them will even help with the costs for vaccinations and spaying/neutering. Also, if you aren't set on a kitten, most of them also have plenty of slightly older cats who could also use good homes, and they're willing to take a reduced price for these animals to help them into a good home.
   8. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:29 AM (#3017908)
I've been reading the Power Broker since September
Hee hee -- 2 weeks and more than halfway through. Of course, I'm not trying to write anything more draining than an occasional snarky comment here. :) My wife is giving me s*** because I'm trying to finish it in a month and am tracking my progress.
Even if Caro is totally slanting the story, Moses comes off as one of the most bastard-y bastards who ever lived.

I have a couple of books on my wish list:
Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln by Doris Kearns Goodwin
Slavery By Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II by Douglas A. Blackmon
(I saw Blackmon interviewed by Bill Moyers about this book and is sounded very interesting)

I also have a bunch of CDs on my list, mostly from my youth:
Chicago I and II (how could they be so great and turn into the pablum machine that they've been for the last 30-odd years?)
Byrds, Kinks, Spirit, Donovan, Quicksilver Messenger Service, several Moody Blues
Living Black! Earland, Charles (I heard this guy by chance on the radio and want to give him a shot)
   9. Craig K Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:31 AM (#3017909)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?


A couple of those MacFarlane baseball things; preferably the Pujols one.
   10. Ryan Jones Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:33 AM (#3017910)
Kinks


You should also look into some of Ray Davies solo stuff. Everything that I've heard of it has been excellent.
   11. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:35 AM (#3017912)
We've gotten two adult cats from our local shelter, both of whom were already so independent that they very quickly decided to sneak out the back door and see what was going on outside. It only took a couple of weeks of wandering back and forth, inside and out, before they disappeared for good - we assumed they got eaten by coyotes, although it really could have been anything. The strategy now is to get a kitten from the shelter so we can train him or her to be a lifelong indoor cat.
   12. Ryan Jones Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#3017918)
Ah. That makes sense.

We had to do a similar thing, in order to train the kitten to be used to the concept of baths - allergens are a bit of a concern in our house, and neither of us wanted to introduce an adult cat to the concept of baths. We've also been working on the outdoor training using a leash/harness, so that the kitten learns that she's not allowed outside unless she's on one. It's worked so far, although it's helped by her being a bit of a chicken. Not having coyotes in our area also makes that training a bit easier.
   13. aleskel Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#3017919)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?

the complete box set of Monty Python's Flying Circus!
   14. Ryan Jones Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:43 AM (#3017924)
the complete box set of Monty Python's Flying Circus!


By coincidence, Amazon is running it at a 46% discount (only $53.49). It's well worth the money.
   15. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:46 AM (#3017928)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?

Do they still sell Baseball Think Factory thongs?
   16. Craig K Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:46 AM (#3017929)
We've gotten two adult cats from our local shelter, both of whom were already so independent that they very quickly decided to sneak out the back door and see what was going on outside. It only took a couple of weeks of wandering back and forth, inside and out, before they disappeared for good - we assumed they got eaten by coyotes, although it really could have been anything. The strategy now is to get a kitten from the shelter so we can train him or her to be a lifelong indoor cat.

Trust me, they'll be back, if only for a couple of days at a time. I've got a feral cat that lives near my house that comes to the house for a couple days and disappears for about a month, then shows up again for a few more days, then disappears again, and so forth. We've probably assumed him dead 3 or 4 times and he always comes back.
   17. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:54 AM (#3017935)
Hee hee -- 2 weeks and more than halfway through. Of course, I'm not trying to write anything more draining than an occasional snarky comment here. :) My wife is giving me s*** because I'm trying to finish it in a month and am tracking my progress.


I want to read something by McCullough next, or the Alexander Hamilton bio by Chernow. Essentially, I hope that some of these writers rub off on me.
   18. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:55 AM (#3017936)
It's been about 15 months for the first one, and six months for the second one. I'm pretty sure they aren't coming back.
   19. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:20 PM (#3017957)
I've got a feral cat that lives near my house that comes to the house for a couple days and disappears for about a month, then shows up again for a few more days, then disappears again, and so forth. We've probably assumed him dead 3 or 4 times and he always comes back.

Possibly a clan leader who's been to the Moonstone.
   20. Repoz Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:30 PM (#3017966)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?

A backhoe...because I still strongly believe that two or possibly three bodies are buried in my back yard.
   21. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:31 PM (#3017969)
I want to read something by McCullough
May I recommend the John Adams bio. Really, really fascinating -- the love story, the friendship/enemyship/friendship with Jefferson plus all the amazing history stuff. And Abigail is even more amazing than John.
   22. Darren Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:33 PM (#3017971)
When we adopted our current cat from the Humane Society, they warned us off a pair of feral cats--"no good with children--to aggressive!" Instead we got a cat that, if she is not a feral cat, is more aggressive than one. The moral of the story is not to ever listen to anyone about anything.
   23. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:41 PM (#3017976)
Edmundo, I watched most of that miniseries. I'd like to check out the book. As a child of the 70s, the Bicentennial turned me into a Revolutionary War buff.

I was taklking to some guys over the weekend who are 15 years or so older than me and they told me that the Centennial of the CIvil War had a similar effect on them.
   24. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:54 PM (#3017986)
the Bicentennial turned me into a Revolutionary War buff.

If I think of big busts (not the Jayne Mansfield/Pamela Anderson type) in my lifetime, the Bicentennial and Comet Kahoutek are tied. Philly, of course, was to be the hub of the Bicentennial, but Mayor Frank Rizzo, the ex-police chief ("I will make Attila the Hun look like a faggot" is attributed to him) made such a fuss about locking down the city to prevent so-called revolutionaries from disrupting the celebration that "no one came" to Philadelphia. This was only a couple of years after the Patty Hearst thing, William Ayers and friends were still at large, so there was some reason to be concerned. But Rizzo went way overboard.

My Dad had recently gotten his flying license -- he had been a WWII B-24 pilot but decided to have 6 kids post-war and kind of had no time or money for keeping active. He had the brainstorm that he could make some bucks (or get his flying expenses covered, knowing my Dad) by starting his own aviation company. He put a separate phone line in the basement. Hoelker Aviation got all of one phone call -- it was a wrong number. :(
   25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:56 PM (#3017992)
The moral of the story is not to ever listen to anyone about anything.

I don't believe you.
   26. aleskel Posted: December 01, 2008 at 12:58 PM (#3017994)
McCullough's Adams bio is a good read, but not really good history (which is basically McC's MO). I've heard good things about his 1776, however.
   27. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:09 PM (#3018002)
Didn't McCullough write a book about the Brooklyn Bridge? That would satisfy my inner roadgeek.

Edmundo, IIRC, Boston started the Freedom Trail in '76. We went there and Lexington and Concord.
   28. RB in NYC (Now with a Training Schedule!) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:13 PM (#3018010)
Didn't McCullough write a book about the Brooklyn Bridge? That would satisfy my inner roadgeek.
He did, I gave it to my Dad for Christmas last year, I think he enjoyed it.

Now that I think about it, of the three times when I give my Dad a gift (Christmas, birthday, Father's Day) that Brooklyn Bridge book is about the only time in maybe 3 years I didn't give him Yankee tickets.
   29. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#3018023)
TPoT:HtHRW -
Maybe my local bias is showing through on the Bicentennial. Was it a big deal in Boston? Boston did have more than a little bit of involvement in the Rev. War. :)
   30. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:34 PM (#3018026)
I think that it was a big deal there, but keep in mind that I was 8 at the time and was easy to impress. But one of the coolest Revolution War-related things that I ever saw was Yorktown. I went their with friends a few years ago. I think that they did a really good job of preserving that site.
   31. tribefan Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:41 PM (#3018032)
Way off-topic here, but I figured a few Primer types might read Paul Zimmerman (Dr. Z) over on CNNSI from time to time. He had a stroke last week, Peter King covers it in the MMQB:

Link to SI piece

Some great quotes from old Dr Z articles:

"It's corporate football and I think it's dull. I hear Woody Widenhofer, the Steelers' defensive coordinator, tell me, 'We can use up to 20 different players on one series. Everybody makes a contribution. It's better than the old Steel Curtain defense,' and I want to kill him. Makes a contribution? What is this, the March of Dimes?"
   32. Rodder Posted: December 01, 2008 at 01:57 PM (#3018053)
or the Alexander Hamilton bio by Chernow

Great read. Hamilton is in my 5 most interesting people in American History list, and Chernow does a thorough job.

My Christmas list is comprised mostly of Phillies championship stuff.
   33. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: December 01, 2008 at 02:17 PM (#3018076)
Way off-topic here, but I figured a few Primer types might read Paul Zimmerman (Dr. Z) over on CNNSI from time to time. He had a stroke last week, Peter King covers it in the MMQB:

That sucks. He's my favorite football writer. In fact, he's the only one I read anymore. His knowledge in encyclopedic and, disagree with him or not, I sincerely doubt anyone researches his writing more or is more accountable for what he writes. I think Joe Pos comes closest in the world of baseball.
   34. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 03:25 PM (#3018167)
I'm a fan of Dr Z going back some 25 years or so. Every fall, I flip thorough his Thinking Man's Guide to Football. It sounds like he's recovering.
   35. tribefan Posted: December 01, 2008 at 04:01 PM (#3018191)
Speaking of football, if you haven't seen the fake field goal attempt that the Raiders tried yesterday, you really ought to do yourself a favor and head over to NFL.com for the highlights. I can't begin to imagine how anyone would think a play that involves Sebastian Janikowski trying to catch the ball and run with it would be a good idea.
   36. Crispix Attacks Posted: December 01, 2008 at 04:21 PM (#3018213)
Did you see the play in the Nebraska-Colorado game, where the Nebraska holder flipped the ball over his head without looking, and the Nebraska punter was nowhere near where the ball went, as the Colorado guy caught it in his stride and ran directly into the end zone? Now that's what I call a trick play.
   37. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: December 01, 2008 at 04:33 PM (#3018224)
Concerned about what the economy will do to the free agent market, the Yankees are considering not offering arbitration to Bobby Abreu prior to tonight's deadline.

It's hard to imagine they wouldn't at least gamble on Abreu, especially given that they've already decided not to offer arbitation to fellow free agents Andy Pettitte, Jason Giambi, Ivan Rodriguez, Sidney Ponson, Carl Pavano and Chad Moeller. The two draft picks they'd get if Abreu leaves would be their only extra selections, and they're probably going to lose their own first-round pick when they sign a starting pitcher.


From rotoworld. Teams seem to be getting more and more concerned about offering arbitration this offseason. I was thinking that all the talk of a sluggish market was BS, but now I'm not so sure. It's hard to believe that the Yanks might come out of this offseason with no extra picks. On top of that, I think they're a better team with Abreu next year than without him so even if they get "stuck" with him for a year, they're all right. I suspected they may not offer Abreu arb, but I'm surprised to read that they are REALLY comtemplating not offering him arb. Weird.
   38. JMN Has Mastered Impact and Dominate Posted: December 01, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#3018288)
So what is on the Christmas list for the average Primate?

On a twist from other entrants in this thread, for Christmas, I want a painless, easy cure for a cat with lymphoma of the skin. I just got the diagnosis today. I don't think I'm going to get my wish.
   39. jwb Posted: December 01, 2008 at 06:46 PM (#3018316)
Baseball news: Milwaukee offers arbitration to Sabathia, Sheets, and Shouse; not to Gagne. Detroit passes on Renteria.

Sorry about your cat, JMN.
   40. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: December 01, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#3018326)
On a twist from other entrants in this thread, for Christmas, I want a painless, easy cure for a cat with lymphoma of the skin. I just got the diagnosis today. I don't think I'm going to get my wish.

I'm also sorry to hear about your cat. Last year we had to put our cat with CRF down after a year and a half long fight. One of the hardest things I ever had to do. Trust your cat. In the end, he/she will know what's best.
   41. JMN Has Mastered Impact and Dominate Posted: December 01, 2008 at 08:14 PM (#3018401)
I'm also sorry to hear about your cat. Last year we had to put our cat with CRF down after a year and a half long fight. One of the hardest things I ever had to do. Trust your cat. In the end, he/she will know what's best.

Eddie's the one that took 18 months to learn his name. I don't trust him to know anything.
   42. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: December 01, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#3018404)
Eddie's the one that took 18 months to learn his name. I don't trust him to know anything.

Don't mistake wisdom and intelligence. My cats are dumb as posts but I'm the one getting up at 6 am every morning to sit in a cubicle all day.
   43. phredbird Posted: December 01, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#3018407)
so we can train him or her to be a lifelong indoor cat


i've never seen an indoor cat that didn't have serious issues. what folks need to understand about cats is that they are one step from the wild, much more so than dogs. they are made to roam territory.
   44. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: December 01, 2008 at 08:29 PM (#3018414)
i've never seen an indoor cat that didn't have serious issues. what folks need to understand about cats is that they are one step from the wild, much more so than dogs. they are made to roam territory.

Mine seem ok. I live in Manhattan, so letting them roam isn't really possible anyway. The cat we rescued from the street won't go outside if you put a gun to his head. He won't even go near a window or a door in case you get ideas.
   45. tribefan Posted: December 01, 2008 at 09:30 PM (#3018443)
Did you see the play in the Nebraska-Colorado game, where the Nebraska holder flipped the ball over his head without looking, and the Nebraska punter was nowhere near where the ball went, as the Colorado guy caught it in his stride and ran directly into the end zone?



Here it is. Good replay right around the :33 mark, wild stuff. Evidently should have been a dead play though.
   46. greenback345397SM6 Posted: December 01, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#3018453)
Didn't McCullough write a book about the Brooklyn Bridge? That would satisfy my inner roadgeek.

I found it in a bargain bin for a couple of bucks a couple of years ago. I wonder if history books that aren't about the wars (Rev, Civ, WW2, maybe VN) or their participants lack lasting power. Anyway it's worth reading, especially since I was "hearing" McCullough speak the text and he's got a fantastic voice.
   47. JMN Has Mastered Impact and Dominate Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:10 PM (#3018477)
i've never seen an indoor cat that didn't have serious issues.


Fixed.

what folks need to understand about cats is that they are one step from the wild, much more so than dogs. they are made to roam territory.


Cats are less domesticated then dogs, and more domesticated than they think they are.
   48. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:17 PM (#3018479)
Here it is. Good replay right around the :33 mark, wild stuff. Evidently should have been a dead play though.


Why should it have been dead?
   49. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:32 PM (#3018487)
I wonder if history books that aren't about the wars (Rev, Civ, WW2, maybe VN) or their participants lack lasting power.


I hear that The Power Broker still sells, but that might be a special case. IIRC, it's mandatory reading in some Poli Sci courses.


Did you see the play in the Nebraska-Colorado game, where the Nebraska holder flipped the ball over his head without looking, and the Nebraska punter was nowhere near where the ball went, as the Colorado guy caught it in his stride and ran directly into the end zone?


I saw the highlight for that several times in bars and had no idea where it was from. The argument was that it was a deadball because the placekicker moved too early and it was no longer a kicking play.
   50. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#3018492)
I saw the highlight for that several times in bars and had no idea where it was from. The argument was that it was a deadball because the placekicker moved too early and it was no longer a kicking play.


Is that a call that demands stopping the play? Either way, I wouldn't say it should have been a dead play in the same way I wouldn't say a touchdown shouldn't have counted because of holding. If I'm reading your explanation correctly, it sounds like the referees missed an illegal procedure call, rather than misintepreted the rules.
   51. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: December 01, 2008 at 11:48 PM (#3018496)
I dunno, SoSH. I really don't know college football rules that well. But I wouldn't have let the holder toss the ball the way he did. That's just asking for trouble.
   52. Crispix Attacks Posted: December 02, 2008 at 12:18 AM (#3018519)
Ah, I see. Because the kicker was running around before the snap instead of being in a kicking posture, it should have been considered a regular offensive play instead of a kicking play, and the kicker should have been considered a ball carrier rather than a kicker. And therefore when the ball was snapped to the holder, it was basically like if the ball was snapped to a quarterback who was already kneeling, because the holder was kneeling. So it should have been treated as if they had taken a knee.

I think this would be true at any level of football. You can't just have a running back run back and forth, then take a handoff and punt the ball.
   53. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 02, 2008 at 12:28 AM (#3018523)
Thanks Crispix. That makes sense.
   54. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: December 02, 2008 at 12:53 AM (#3018539)
Why, The Hardball Times 2009 Baseball Annual, of course! Every Primate wants that. So buy copies.

That is #1 on my Christmas List. Seriously. I realize I could buy it online or at a store, but I'm conducting an experiment - it's been on my list for three years running, unfulfilled.
   55. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: December 02, 2008 at 12:55 AM (#3018540)
i've never seen an indoor cat that didn't have serious issues. what folks need to understand about cats is that they are one step from the wild, much more so than dogs. they are made to roam territory.

Well, apart from the fact that our indoor cat is foul-mouthed and politically savvy, nothing is too unusual with him.
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

We have baseball tickets, the NFL schedule, college football tickets and Cowboys tickets. We have NBA tickets like Celtics tickets and Lakers tickets. Plus, buy concert tickets, Patriots tickets and Colts tickets. Also check out our MLB baseball schedule

Baseball Bats

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Major League Baseball: All Star Game, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, LA Angels, Washington Nationals, Chicago White Sox, and the Chicago Cubs.

Find terrific deals on Yankees tickets for the new home, Cubs tickets for classic Wrigley, or Red Sox tickets for Fenway with OnlineSeats. We have seats for every baseball game, including Dodgers tickets.

Page rendered in 0.7205 seconds
81 querie(s) executed