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Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Primer Dugout 1-9-08 (and random link of the day)

Dugout is the one thread to have
When you’re having more than one.

Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 07:55 AM | 87 comment(s)
Related News: General, Dugout

Reader Comments and Retorts

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1. 44magnum Posted: January 09, 2008 at 08:56 AM (#2664210)

Thanks for the link, GGC. My fav so far...Tom Mastny, whose favorite clubhouse downtime activity is making up anagrams, will have a lot of time to think up some more (his favorite for "Dusty Baker" is "Bury at desk"), after injuring his wrist in a freak collision with a duck in one of the biggest community colleges in Cleveland...

2. JJ1986 Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:15 AM (#2664218)

Mariners sign Miguel Cairo. I think they're trying to assemble the weakest hitting bench in the game.

3. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:18 AM (#2664220)

How about an All Cities/Area name players?
All I can come up with now is Cairo and Durham. But then, I am still on my first coffee!

4. Delorians Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:22 AM (#2664225)

Daryl Boston
Austin Kearnes

5. user Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:23 AM (#2664226)

O's trade Roberts to cubs?

Orioleshangout.com has learned through several sources that the trade of All-Star second baseman Brian Roberts to the Cubs has been finalized.

The early reports indicate that Orioles will get back 22-year old right-hander pitching prospect Sean Gallagher, 25-year old left-handed starting pitcher Sean Marshall, and 24-year old shortstop Ronny Cedeno.

anyone know if the above is a reliable source?

6. JJ1986 Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:26 AM (#2664230)

Mike Lansing

7. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:27 AM (#2664233)

I will always be grateful to Miguel Cairo for both his unexpectedly solid 2004 season and his supposed salary demands in the off-season thereof which led, more or less, to Robinson Cano being installed as Yankee second baseman. Good times.

8. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:28 AM (#2664235)

Paul Moskau

9. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:35 AM (#2664244)

That Cubs trade looks bad for Chicago. Cedeno > Theriot at SS and the team loses the two pitchers who will be picking up the slack in the not unlikely event that Dempster or Jason Marquis can't cut it in the rotation this season. Now the insurance guy is Kevin Hart and ?. Maybe Veal?

Didn't the Orioles want Eric Patterson? I can see why they wouldn't want Murton.

10. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:36 AM (#2664245)

Chad Ogea. Or Chad Curtis. Chad is a real boost.

11. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:36 AM (#2664246)

Steve Nicoscia
Mark Portugal
Seattle Bill Lee
Herb Washington

In Massachusetts alone, there's
Tim Wakefield
Mike Lowell
Bob Tewksberry
Darryl Boston
Ryan Franklin
Bill Lee
among others

12. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:36 AM (#2664247)

Austin Kearns reminds me of Dallas Green and Tyler Houston!

13. Mike Webber Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:41 AM (#2664249)

Was trying to come up with a list of minor leaguers/draft choices that went on to fame in other venues in the draft era:
Dan Marino, Deion Sanders, Archie Manning, John Elway, Kurt Russell, Randy “Macho Man” Savage, Ricky Williams

Any others off the top of your heads? Particularly actors/musicians.

14. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:43 AM (#2664252)

Houston Jimenez
Orlando Cabrera
Raleigh Fingers

15. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:46 AM (#2664254)

Ken Stabler, Mike?

16. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:47 AM (#2664256)

In Massachusetts alone

Hmm, some sort of cutoff is in order. Only cities/areas with a certain population? I mean, who has heard of Tewksberry the town? Only reason I know Wakefield is because of the Vicar of Wakefield. But this might be a different town you are referring to.

Was trying to come up with a list of minor leaguers/draft choices that went on to fame in other venues in the draft era
Dennis Dixon was chosen by the Braves in the 5th round. They took Chad Hermansen in the 90s as a #1 pick.
And google news tells me, the new CEO of Bear Stearns, Alan Schwartz was drafted by the Reds

17. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:47 AM (#2664257)

re Roberts (cross posted from other thread):

My initial reactions:

a) The mere fact that the trade happened is great news. This shows MacPhail is serious about rebuilding and Angelos is willing to let him do it.

b) I like the trade, but don't love it. Cedeno seems to have decent upside and projects as close to league average (according to Chone), Marshall seems like a solid starter, and Gallagher is a very nice prospect. That said, I wish they'd received Patterson or Murton instead of Marshall, or at least Fuld in addition to the other three. Frankly, I don't fully understand the inclusion of Marshall over Patterson or Murton from either team's perspective -- the Cubs have just traded most of their starting depth, and have no need for either of the position players at this point. And the Orioles have lots of starters at this point. I have to think Marshall and/or other pitchers are going to be flipped in other deals. (and maybe the Cubs are still shopping for another starter).

18. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:49 AM (#2664261)

Isn't this a cheap haul for Roberts? He is afterall one of the top 5 2Bmen signed to a very good deal.
So a mediocre sp, a B pitching prospect, and a failed SS doesn't sound much. Esp since the Orioles already have Luis Hernandez to fill the Cedeno role.

The O's might have gotten more by offering him arb when he hits FA

19. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:50 AM (#2664264)

don't fully understand the inclusion of Marshall over Patterson or Murton from either team's perspective

I feel the same way so I am doubting the rumor.

20. Bad Doctor Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:56 AM (#2664268)

Al Holland

Marshall doesn't strike me as a guy who holds up in switching from the NL to the AL, particularly the AL East. I guess Gallagher has to have the same concerns (though as a fellow Gallagher, I will be pulling for him ... he can at least have a better career than Dave). Roberts for Cedeno ... man, you've gotta have a lot of faith in Cedeno's AAA numbers last year to like that.

21. AROM Posted: January 09, 2008 at 09:58 AM (#2664272)

I think Cedeno has at least a chance of contributing with the bat, I can't say the same about Hernandez. Though I guess they'll both play since the O's don't have anyone at second.

Doesn't seem like much of a return. Mitchell report didn't help any. What the O's need is a Haren-sized return on Eric Bedard.

22. Dag Nabbit: formerly tolerant of lactose Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:03 AM (#2664275)

If the Cubs are trading for Roberts do they move him to short? If not, what are they going to do with DeRosa?

Yeeaarrghh, I think Marshall isn't a good bet moving forward. He had a great ERA+ last year at 119, but that figure obscures far more than it illuminates. He allowed a few more UER than he should've. He doesn't strike that many guys out (about 1 out of every 8 non-pitchers who faced him). He can't go deep in games at all. After June 24, he never threw over 6 innings. From June 30 onward, his ERA was 5.03. And the quality of hitting from the AL East and NL Central doesn't promise good things for him either.

Looks like the Cubs are trading a bunch of guys they don't have much interest in for one guy.

23. Dag Nabbit: formerly tolerant of lactose Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:04 AM (#2664277)

There's a town in Wyoming called Bill. So every player named Bill qualifies.

Tom York.

24. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:06 AM (#2664279)

Yeeaarrghh, I think Marshall isn't a good bet moving forward. He had a great ERA+ last year at 119, but that figure obscures far more than it illuminates. He allowed a few more UER than he should've. He doesn't strike that many guys out (about 1 out of every 8 non-pitchers who faced him). He can't go deep in games at all. After June 24, he never threw over 6 innings. From June 30 onward, his ERA was 5.03. And the quality of hitting from the AL East and NL Central doesn't promise good things for him either.

I understand that, which is part of the reason I'm not sure why he's part of this trade. I think he'll be flipped to another team.

25. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:08 AM (#2664282)

Looks like the Cubs are trading a bunch of guys they don't have much interest in for one guy.

I think that is being very unfair to Gallagher.

26. Dag Nabbit: formerly tolerant of lactose Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:08 AM (#2664284)

That's true about Gallagher.

27. 44magnum Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:09 AM (#2664286)

Mark Portugal

Danny Ainge

28. DKDC Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:09 AM (#2664288)

AROM - are your wOBA projections park and league neutral?

Is Cedeno's .331 directly comparable to Roberts' .349?

29. Richard Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:11 AM (#2664291)

Gary Sheffield

30. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:12 AM (#2664292)

Where's Ainge on my gazetteer?

Oh, your killing two birds there, 44.

Glad you liked the Gammonsizer.

31. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2664294)

That's true about Gallagher.

OK, maybe you know more about the feelings on the organizational pitching. The Cubs obviously like Hart. Who is next in line should two starters go down?

32. DKDC Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:19 AM (#2664298)

Rumor may be false.

In a span of about five minutes, I've been buried by e-mails - including one from Baseball America - and phone calls checking to see if the Brian Roberts deal to the Cubs is official.

A team spokesman said he just contacted president Andy MacPhail, who insisted that the rumor is "very inaccurate." The Sun's Dan Connolly just spoke to MacPhail, who said nothing has changed since last night.

I'll keep you posted, of course, if anything develops.

33. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:21 AM (#2664300)

There are no baseball players named Syd? Sidney wouldn't be acceptable I guess. And damn, I missed Sheffield!

34. chemdoc Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:28 AM (#2664309)

There's a town in Wyoming called Bill. So every player named Bill qualifies.

And there's Joe, Montana. (sort of)

35. 44magnum Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:31 AM (#2664310)

Clyde Milan
John Mayberry
Vinegar Bend Mizell

36. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:33 AM (#2664315)

Vinegar Bend? You kidding me :)

Jeff Montgomery

37. Boots Day Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:34 AM (#2664317)

Reggie Cleveland
Alex Madrid
Pete Appleton

And in the other category

Chuck Connors
Scott Burrell
Charley Pride

38. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:35 AM (#2664319)

Was trying to come up with a list of minor leaguers/draft choices that went on to fame in other venues in the draft era:
Dan Marino, Deion Sanders, Archie Manning, John Elway, Kurt Russell, Randy “Macho Man” Savage, Ricky Williams

Bill Richardson? Oops, he lied.

Mario Cuomo was not drafted, but he was a minor leaguer. Fidel Castro I think only went to a Washington tryout, never signed...or is that a myth?

39. JJ1986 Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:39 AM (#2664323)

Chris Weinke was drafted and played six years in the minors. I'm not sure how famous he is, though.

40. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:41 AM (#2664326)

Any others off the top of your heads? Particularly actors/musicians.

I do believe Paul Gleason spent some time in the minors. I may be wrong but I remember his obit saying something about his playing days when he passed away some time ago.

41. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:43 AM (#2664328)

Any others off the top of your heads? Particularly actors/musicians.

Nelly was drafted by the Braves IIRC. I think Pat White was drafted by the Angels and he'll be famous next year when he wins the Heisman.

42. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:44 AM (#2664329)

Was not MC Hammer a minor league ballplayer? I remember he built a personal baseball stadium before going broke.

43. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:47 AM (#2664331)

Fidel Castro I think only went to a Washington tryout, never signed...or is that a myth?

It is fact!

(Ok, kidding. I think it is pretty widely accepted as just a myth at this point. Castro was a fine player but not good enough to ever merit serious consideration as a MLB player.)

44. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:50 AM (#2664336)

Actually, IIRC, Nelly was scouted, but not drafted. This was asked in the chat room of a BPro prospect maven some time back but the guy's name escapes me.

and MC Hammer was a bat boy for Oakland.

45. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:51 AM (#2664337)

Also, wasn't Charlie Sheen a star pitcher in high school? In Major League, his actually velocity was only about 10 mph off.

46. AROM Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:52 AM (#2664339)

AROM - are your wOBA projections park and league neutral?

Is Cedeno's .331 directly comparable to Roberts' .349?

Nope - based on the actual projected stats. My guess is that after the trade Roberts goes to around .360 and Cedeno falls to .320, I'll run the numbers tonight.

47. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:52 AM (#2664340)

Mike did say in players in the draft era.

As for players who share names with cities, I think you should limit your list to towns and cities of decent size or notoriety. Otherwise, almost everybody qualifies.

Two tidbits from ballparkwatch.com:
* The South Coast League is adding a team in Jackson, which i think makes no sense at all - Jackson is too far from the rest of the league and competition from the AA club in Pearl caused an earlier indy attempt at a previous attempt at Smith-Wills Stadium to flounder.
* Terry Kennedy will be a hitting coach for AA-San Antonio next year. Wasn't he BA minor league manager of the year a few seasons back? I'm not sure why he's taken that position...

48. AROM Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:54 AM (#2664343)

In Major League, his actually velocity was only about 10 mph off.

I don't think he was throwing 90. Probably more like 20 mph off from Vaughn, but still very good.

49. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:58 AM (#2664350)

I don't think he was throwing 90. Probably more like 20 mph off from Vaughn, but still very good.

Not that IMDB is the most reliable but they claim he could throw in the high 80s.

50. DKDC Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:02 AM (#2664361)

Nope - based on the actual projected stats. My guess is that after the trade Roberts goes to around .360 and Cedeno falls to .320, I'll run the numbers tonight.

That's good to know.

And thanks for all the work you put into those, by the way. I find myself looking up one projection or another pretty much every day.

51. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:05 AM (#2664364)

Royals signed P Luke Hudson.

52. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:06 AM (#2664367)

A rumor, which seems to have more reliability than the previous Cub rumor - it comes from Bruce Levine, is that the Cubs are in contract talks with John Lieber.

53. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:09 AM (#2664374)

Actually, IIRC, Nelly was scouted, but not drafted. This was asked in the chat room of a BPro prospect maven some time back but the guy's name escapes me.

Did some digging around and you are correct. I did manage to find a couple places that said he was drafted so at least I'm not the only one who was wrong!

54. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:19 AM (#2664390)

Israel Alcantara
Kelly Paris
Frank Brazill
Chile Gomez
Turkey Stearnes

55. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:20 AM (#2664391)

Did some digging around and you are correct. I did manage to find a couple places that said he was drafted so at least I'm not the only one who was wrong!

Yeah, it seems to be a popular rumor. What I never understood is why MLB never capitalized on Nelly's love for baseball, marketing-wise. In terms of his popularity, Nelly has probably peaked by now but better him than Dane Cook.

56. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:24 AM (#2664398)

What I never understood is why MLB never capitalized on Nelly's love for baseball, marketing-wise.

Agreed. The guy played a baseball game in one of his videos! I lost interest in Nelly around the 40th time I heard Country Grammar, but he would have been a great way to market to the mainstream MTV crowd.

57. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:26 AM (#2664404)

John Maine

58. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:33 AM (#2664411)

A rumor, which seems to have more reliability than the previous Cub rumor - it comes from Bruce Levine, is that the Cubs are in contract talks with John Lieber.

Dayton Moore on the radio this morning also mentioned Lieber as a guy he wanted. He may have to hustle to get him.

59. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:53 AM (#2664424)

Reno Bertoia
Germany Schaefer
Tim Ireland
Jose Lima
Benito Santiago

60. kthejoker Posted: January 09, 2008 at 11:57 AM (#2664429)

American Geography Hall of Fame Team:

C - Biz (Raleigh) Mackey
1B - Orlando Cepeda
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Arky Vaughan
3B - Frank (Franklin) Baker
LF - Larry (Lawrence) Doby
CF - Oscar Charleston / Turkey (Norman) Stearnes
RF - Reggie Jackson
P - Warren Spahn
P - Sandy (Sanford) Koufax
P - Cy (Denton) Young

Commish: Kenseaw Mountain Landis.

Bonus P: Red (Urban) Faber.

61. kthejoker Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:02 PM (#2664431)

Dunno if it counts for the list, but Scott Boras was drafted.

Also Hines Ward and Charlie Ward.

62. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:08 PM (#2664436)

Was trying to come up with a list of minor leaguers/draft choices that went on to fame in other venues in the draft era:

Michael Jordan?

63. Mike Webber Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:13 PM (#2664439)

Jordan, that's a good one! Thanks for all the other suggestions too.
Thinking about a project where you see the scouting report then guess the player, these guys would be to mix it up a little.

64. Dock Ellis on Acid

Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:15 PM (#2664440)

Also Hines Ward and Charlie Ward.

Really? Charlie was drafted? A Heisman trophy winner and an NBA player. Christ, what an athlete.

65. Boots Day Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:25 PM (#2664449)

Didn't Nelly do some promos around the time of the 2004 World Series? (He's from St. Louis.)

66. Boots Day Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:31 PM (#2664453)

Jay Schroeder played a few years in the minors.

Some of these city names are getting a little ridiculous. The final criterion for whether it counts or not is if I personally know what state the city is supposed to be in. It took me a while to remember Warren, Ohio, and Franklin, Tennessee, but I have no idea whether Rogers or Hornsby is supposed to be the place name.

67. 44magnum Posted: January 09, 2008 at 12:32 PM (#2664456)

Oscar Charleston
Nelson Norman
Steve Sparks
Red Ames
Heity Cruz

68. Vrhovnik Posted: January 09, 2008 at 01:51 PM (#2664539)

Didn't some team (may not have been MLB) draft Bruce Jenner as a joke?

69. Vrhovnik Posted: January 09, 2008 at 01:53 PM (#2664541)

Casey (K.C.) Stengel

70. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 01:59 PM (#2664543)

The Chicago Tribune's Phil Rogers believes a deal sending Brian Roberts to the Cubs is "almost certainly going to happen."

Rogers believes the current deal includes Sean Marshall, along with Sean Gallagher and Ronny Cedeno. If that's the case, it's a pretty good package for a second baseman with two years left on his deal, and it'd make it easier for the Orioles to send Erik Bedard to Seattle without getting Brandon Morrow in return. The Cubs would be giving up a large chunk of their pitching depth, so they might have to add another veteran to battle Ryan Dempster and Jason Marquis for a rotation spot. Kevin Hart would be their primary insurance with both Marshall and Gallagher gone.

-Rotoworld

Rogers is an annoying columnist but he is fairly close to the team so I wouldn't dismiss his information offhand. It seems there was some substance behind the Oriole blog's rumors after all.

71. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:00 PM (#2664545)

Also: the recent Lieber rumor gives this a little more truthiness, IMO.

72. Fumbduck Joe Bivens Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:09 PM (#2664555)

Fred Lynn

73. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:17 PM (#2664572)

Marty Cordoba

74. Frank Dilio Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:39 PM (#2664614)

Ron Mexico

75. Vrhovnik Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:46 PM (#2664621)

Didn't some team (may not have been MLB) draft Bruce Jenner as a joke?

Answering my own question here:
The KC Kings drafted Jenner in the seventh round of the 1977 draft. Interestingly, the San Diego Clippers drafted Tony Gwynn in the tenth round of the 1981 NBA draft.

76. Loren F.'s well-anchored glenoid Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:52 PM (#2664631)

Derek Jeter

This is after they rename The Bronx 'The Derek Jeter'. Probably sometime in 2011 or 2012.

77. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:54 PM (#2664633)

I think the NBA used to have lots of joke picks because the draft was an absurd amount of rounds.

78. Sexy Lizard Posted: January 09, 2008 at 02:58 PM (#2664640)

Ossie France. Don't pretend you don't remember him, Cubs fans.

79. Sexy Lizard Posted: January 09, 2008 at 03:05 PM (#2664647)

Gwynn was a pretty good point guard in college, so the Clippers' drafting him wasn't completely off the wall.

80. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2664654)

here's my fearless prediction: The roberts deal is larger than the intial rumor, and actually includes Roberts, Payton and $3-4 million for Cedeno, Gallagher, Murton, Fuld, and Marshall, and it hasn't been announced because MLB has to sign off on the exchange of cash, and isn't doing anything today because of Gossage.

81. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 09, 2008 at 03:17 PM (#2664660)

and isn't doing anything today because of Gossage

This is plausible.

82. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 03:24 PM (#2664671)

Payton isn't anything special, but for $1M he's a pretty useful 4th OF and CF backup in case Pie continues to struggle.

83. DKDC Posted: January 09, 2008 at 03:56 PM (#2664707)

Cedeno, Gallagher, Murton, Fuld, and Marshall

Swap Fuld for Patterson and that works for me.

84. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...) Posted: January 09, 2008 at 04:02 PM (#2664718)

Me too, but that seems like wishful thinking.

85. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: January 09, 2008 at 04:16 PM (#2664736)

There's Rogers, Arkansas, but for all I know, there may be a Hornsby somewhere. There's also a Warren, Michigan, and maybe others. Everybody in New England has heard of Tewksburry, Massachusetts.

86. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: January 09, 2008 at 10:42 PM (#2665118)

Just 'cause I haven't seen it elsewhere - Joe McEwing retired.

87. 1k5v3L, Useless

Posted: January 10, 2008 at 12:24 AM (#2665171)

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/13627791.html

After weeks of speculation that the Yankees and Red Sox were the two favorites to land Johan Santana, the Twins could wind up shipping him to the Mets....

The players the Mets would send the Twins aren't household names. There's no Jose Reyes or David Wright. The offers aren't perfect....

According to people with knowledge of the discussions, the Mets have offered top pitching prospect Deolis Guerra, along with center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber.

The Twins like those players. They've told the Mets they'd have a done deal if New York would add prized outfield prospect Fernando Martinez...

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