Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, March 24, 2008

Reeves: Send Saltalamacchia to the minors? There must be a better answer (RR)

Yes...especially since we’ve been told that catching is so thin in high school, colleges and professional levels!

Here’s the problem: There’s no question that Saltalamacchia can hit major league pitching, and hit with power.

“Salty is going to hit at this level,” hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo said Sunday. “He can do that right now.”

Not if he doesn’t get the opportunity.

The Rangers could keep him and try to alternate catchers, but they worry that that strategy would slow Saltalamacchia’s defensive improvement. They’re afraid if they used Saltalamacchia at DH two or three days a week, for instance, they’d be in a bind if Laird was injured during a game. In that case, Saltalamacchia would have to move to catcher, they would lose the DH and a pitcher would have to hit. “If we kept both of them, we’d have to carry a third [catcher] and then I couldn’t keep another first baseman,” Washington said.

That’s flawed thinking, actually, but typical of most managers. The chance of an in-game injury is remote, and, if it did happen, it likely wouldn’t be a catastrophe to lose the DH for an at-bat or two.

Repoz Posted: March 24, 2008 at 07:28 AM | 34 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralTexas

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: March 24, 2008 at 07:39 AM (#2718242)
Oh my freakin god. Are the Rangers the biggest idiots ever? Gerald Laird? You don't want to take playing time away from Gerald effin Laird? The A's relegation to last place has been greatly exaggerated by the mainstream media.

Hello all, Happy Monday! Let's solve all of baseball's problems again this week. Looking forward to the Sawx - Washington Generals game tomorrow. I just hope Big Papi doesn't douse Bob Geren with a bucket of confetti. That would be humiliating.
   2. Dan The Mediocre Posted: March 24, 2008 at 08:16 AM (#2718254)
The Rangers could keep him and try to alternate catchers, but they worry that that strategy would slow Saltalamacchia’s defensive improvement. They’re afraid if they used Saltalamacchia at DH two or three days a week, for instance, they’d be in a bind if Laird was injured during a game. In that case, Saltalamacchia would have to move to catcher, they would lose the DH and a pitcher would have to hit. “If we kept both of them, we’d have to carry a third [catcher] and then I couldn’t keep another first baseman,” Washington said.


Having the pitcher bat in a single game isn't something so damaging that you need to waste a roster spot to prevent it. If the Rangers are really thinking this way, it'll be a long time until they have a good team.
   3. Lefty Posted: March 24, 2008 at 08:19 AM (#2718256)
This sounds like a total non-issue, except for Washington's proclamations that Laird is still in the picture. Methinks he and Daniels have different ideas here and I have a strong feeling that the latter doesn't endorse the former's statement that "Laird is ahead". The answer is pretty simply: Salty starts and the 29-year-old non-entity spells him when necessary.
   4. villageidiom Posted: March 24, 2008 at 08:21 AM (#2718257)
Hello all, Happy Monday! Let's solve all of baseball's problems again this week. Looking forward to the Sawx - Washington Generals game tomorrow. I just hope Big Papi doesn't douse Bob Geren with a bucket of confetti. That would be humiliating.

Matsuzaka will pitch, then just as Mark Ellis swings he'll yank the ball back with the string attached to it.
   5. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: March 24, 2008 at 08:25 AM (#2718260)
Matsuzaka will pitch, then just as Mark Ellis swings he'll yank the ball back with the string attached to it.

I can't wait for Will Carroll to break down this mythical yo-yo pitch for me. Also, I wonder if the A's will only play their white players and make them all grow porn staches for the game. For some reason, that's how I remember the Generals.
   6. villageidiom Posted: March 24, 2008 at 08:37 AM (#2718264)
I keep thinking about working Manny Ramirez into a Globetrotters parody, but he's already there.
   7. The Good Face Posted: March 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM (#2718314)
Having the pitcher bat in a single game isn't something so damaging that you need to waste a roster spot to prevent it. If the Rangers are really thinking this way, it'll be a long time until they have a good team.


Yet another reason my Rangers fandom is on permanent hiatus. After jerking Laird around for several years by burying him behind Rod Barajas, now they're going to repeat the process with Salty. Sadly, this club has pretty much deserved all the badness that's happened to it over the past 8 years.
   8. Bob Dernier Ressort Posted: March 24, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2718323)
Having the pitcher bat in a single game isn't something so damaging that you need to waste a roster spot to prevent it

In fact, there's this new strategy called "pinch-hitting" that seems to work OK in the National League.

The Texas media often have this notion that pro baseball rosters are kind of like high-school football rosters: even if you're a terrific freshman, the senior has to play because he's the senior. One hopes the Ranger brain trust is smarter than that.
   9. The District Attorney Posted: March 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM (#2718330)
“If we kept both of them, we’d have to carry a third [catcher] and then I couldn’t keep another first baseman,” Washington said.
Isn't the very 1B they're trying to keep -- Shelton -- a former catcher? He is now incapable of playing three innings there in an emergency?
   10. bunyon Posted: March 24, 2008 at 10:30 AM (#2718341)
Posts 8 and 9 anticipate what I would say. PHing works quite well in the NL. I usually scoff at the idea that the NL game is so difficult an ALer can't manage it. But maybe I'm wrong.

And is it so hard to find a guy who can catch a couple of innings? I mean, it's the AL so no one runs. And pitches are called from the dugout anyway. I'm not suggesting it'd be a good long term idea, but a few innings?
   11. melottshomefieldadvantage Posted: March 24, 2008 at 10:56 AM (#2718374)
Oh, let me be your Salty Dog
or I won't be your man at all
Honey! Let me be your Salty Dog
   12. Mike Green Posted: March 24, 2008 at 11:04 AM (#2718386)
Candelaria to Saltalamacchia would have been one helluva battery from a number of perspectives, song completion being high up on the list.
   13. Dan Posted: March 24, 2008 at 11:13 AM (#2718398)
The Rangers could keep him and try to alternate catchers, but they worry that that strategy would slow Saltalamacchia’s defensive improvement. They’re afraid if they used Saltalamacchia at DH two or three days a week, for instance, they’d be in a bind if Laird was injured during a game. In that case, Saltalamacchia would have to move to catcher, they would lose the DH and a pitcher would have to hit. “If we kept both of them, we’d have to carry a third [catcher] and then I couldn’t keep another first baseman,” Washington said.

Besides the fact that losing the DH in one game isn't the end of the world, if you're really concerned about it then why wouldn't you just DH Broussard and start Saltalamacchia at first base? Then if Laird is injured, Saltalamacchia moves to catcher and the backup first baseman comes into the game. Is this really complicated?
   14. TWO!-OH!-OH!-OH! CLAP!-CLAP!-CLAP!CLAP!CLAP! Posted: March 24, 2008 at 11:16 AM (#2718402)
And is it so hard to find a guy who can catch a couple of innings? I mean, it's the AL so no one runs. And pitches are called from the dugout anyway. I'm not suggesting it'd be a good long term idea, but a few innings?

Written like someone who didn't live through all seven highly entertaining innings of The Mike Lamb Experience back in ought-two.
   15. snapper Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:21 PM (#2718472)
I think the only question here should be "is Saltalamacchia ready", both offensively and defensively. He's only 23 this year.

He never played at AAA and his AA numbers are underwhelming. He hit OK last year in the majors. But, if he's going to put up a 90 OPS+ this year, and is not very good defensively, I see no reason not to give him 3-5 months at AAA. It sounds like he needs to improve on defense, so I'd lean towards catching every day in AAA, until he's really tearing it up at the plate, and is at least average defensively.

If he's going to be in Texas, he needs to catch 5 days a week. He's just not a valuable player as a 1B. Doesn't have the bat right now.
   16. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:35 PM (#2718484)
Written like someone who didn't live through all seven highly entertaining innings of The Mike Lamb Experience back in ought-two.

Who was it that made Frank Robinson cry like Dick Vermeil at a screening of Ol'Yeller? I really should remember but I don't.
   17. galaxieboi Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:35 PM (#2718485)
This is kinda where the M's are with Clement. His bat is certainly ready for the catcher position, but if he's gonna take over for Joh next year he needs more work behind the dish. Even as an M's fan I'm excited to see Salty play, but if I'm the stRangers I'd be inclined to leave him in AAA just to get some everyday work in at catcher.
   18. JJ1986 Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:36 PM (#2718487)
Who was it that made Frank Robinson cry like Dick Vermeil at a screening of Ol'Yeller? I really should remember but I don't.

I think that was Matt LeCroy, whose primary position was catcher.
   19. Bob Dernier Ressort Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:46 PM (#2718502)
But, if he's going to put up a 90 OPS+ this year, and is not very good defensively, I see no reason not to give him 3-5 months at AAA

The principle of pro sports, IMO, is that you start if you are better than everyone else in the organization. 90 OPS+ with below-average defense sounds to me better than Gerald Laird. Sure, if you're trying to wring one more decent year out of Varitek for an eight-figure salary, you don't promote a young catcher over him. (Or, as mentioned, over Johjima, who is signed for ~$5M in '08 and can actually hit; in either case the young catcher would have to be awfully good to win the job.) But Laird?? :)
   20. Insert clever/punny handle here (oi!) Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:54 PM (#2718512)
If the Rangers don't want him, maybe the Braves could trade Scott Thorman for Salty. He can be the DH, or the 1B. We'll even toss in Gorkys Hernandez as a CF prospect.
   21. snapper Posted: March 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM (#2718517)
The principle of pro sports, IMO, is that you start if you are better than everyone else in the organization. 90 OPS+ with below-average defense sounds to me better than Gerald Laird.

Not if it's going to retard his development, while burning service time. The Rangers need Salty to be a star for their next contending team, which is not this year.

It will be much easier for him to work on his defense in AAA where there is less pressure, and he won't be moved around from C to 1B to DH.
   22. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: March 24, 2008 at 01:11 PM (#2718531)
It will be much easier for him to work on his defense in AAA where there is less pressure, and he won't be moved around from C to 1B to DH.

What do they do with Teagarden? Is he slated for AA again if Salty is sent down? Again, I just don't see the point of blocking players like Salty and Teagarden because you have Gerald Laird. I can see the Reds sending down Bruce for a while, but at least they have a viable option in CF.

January 14, 2002: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with Jason Hart, Ryan Ludwick, and Mario Ramos to the Texas Rangers for Carlos Pena and Mike Venafro.

Hey, I remember this trade. You had the right idea Billy. Patience, man! Patience! I had forgotten Laird was part of this deal. Those were good times when Mario Ramos was a prospect.
   23. rfloh Posted: March 24, 2008 at 01:13 PM (#2718533)
his AA numbers are underwhelming.


Braves fans can provide more details, but IIRC he was injured that year, with wrist injury or something like that.
   24. snapper Posted: March 24, 2008 at 03:16 PM (#2718706)
Braves fans can provide more details, but IIRC he was injured that year, with wrist injury or something like that.

That may be true, but shouldn't the guy have a good offensive season above A+ ball (which was 2005) before handing him an MLB job?
   25. The Good Face Posted: March 24, 2008 at 03:22 PM (#2718716)
That may be true, but shouldn't the guy have a good offensive season above A+ ball (which was 2005) before handing him an MLB job?


Well, we ARE talking about the Rangers here.

In all seriousness, I could live with Salty starting the season in the minors to play everyday if the Rangers don't think he's ready, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Instead, they apparently want him in the minors to prevent the need for a pinch hitter in a single game at some point.
   26. Bob Dernier Ressort Posted: March 24, 2008 at 03:24 PM (#2718720)
Not if it's going to retard his development, while burning service time. The Rangers need Salty to be a star for their next contending team, which is not this year

That concept is somewhat valid, but I'd argue that you have to build a contender by actually putting your best players at the highest levels. Conceding every year because it's not next year yet is not the way to get anywhere.
   27. snapper Posted: March 24, 2008 at 03:51 PM (#2718763)
That concept is somewhat valid, but I'd argue that you have to build a contender by actually putting your best players at the highest levels. Conceding every year because it's not next year yet is not the way to get anywhere.

I'd agree to a degree, if we had any evidence that Salty is really ready. Otherwise, you run the risk of the Seattle phenomenon, where players are so rushed they never develop and have no trade value. You don't really think you put a super start prospect who should be in AA in MLB, just b/c the other options suck? Also, it might be better to have Salty gain a rapport with the young pitchers in the system (does Tex have any?), rather that the flotsam and jetsam currently occupying the rotation.
   28. The Good Face Posted: March 24, 2008 at 04:13 PM (#2718799)
Also, it might be better to have Salty gain a rapport with the young pitchers in the system (does Tex have any?), rather that the flotsam and jetsam currently occupying the rotation.


Texas' farm system is well stocked with young, power arms. Of course, this has been the case since the 2nd Reagan administration, so I wouldn't make too much of it. Anyway, Salty may or not be ready, but stashing him in the minors because you can't find a place to play Gerald Laird is just stupidiocy.
   29. snapper Posted: March 24, 2008 at 04:23 PM (#2718816)
Anyway, Salty may or not be ready, but stashing him in the minors because you can't find a place to play Gerald Laird is just stupidiocy.

Completely agreed. As I said above, the only question should be "is Salty ready".

If he is (I don't see it) he should start 5x a week at C in Texas. If not, he should start 5x a week in AAA.
   30. Alex Perros Posted: March 24, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2718888)
Baseball management often gives lame excuses for moves that make sense for other reasons.

They obviously don't feel Salty is ready to catch full-time, and that's where his value is.

Don't believe everything you read.

Or everything you think.
   31. mashimaro Posted: March 24, 2008 at 11:57 PM (#2719082)
For the Jays, I think manager Gibbons wouldn't let Zaun or Molina DH because of the same pitcher hitting issue. For the '06 season they could have used it (IIRC)
   32. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 25, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#2719086)
I don't remember what Gibbons said about it, but according to baseball-reference he did use Zaun and Molina a fair bit at DH. Combined, they were second in games at DH for the Jays. And, it's worth noting, everyone who started ahead of them at DH (Hillenbrand, Frankie Cat, Hinske, Lind, Overbay) had better offensive years than them.
   33. Walt Davis Posted: March 25, 2008 at 12:45 AM (#2719094)
“If we kept both of them, we’d have to carry a third [catcher] and then I couldn’t keep another first baseman,”

But...but... even if you buy this, Salty is that "other first baseman."

But it's the Rangers, I really don't care.

Baseball management often gives lame excuses for moves that make sense for other reasons.

They obviously don't feel Salty is ready to catch full-time, and that's where his value is.


That's true enough. And it makes sense when they don't want to come clean with the real excuse. But in this case you're saying the real excuse is that he's not ready ... but they're already saying he needs to improve defensively and needs the playing time to do it. So they've already got the excuse to send him down (whether that's the real reason or not).

I see no excuse for coming up with mind-numbingly dumb reasons on top of that. If anything, that just screams "the real reason is he's a bit 'taiched in the haid' and we just don't want him on the team." :-)
   34. Paul S Posted: March 25, 2008 at 07:57 AM (#2719427)
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

Ticket Nest sells Braves, Cubs, Padres, Indians, Marlins, Nuts, Pirates, Rangers, Patriots, Royals, Stars, Tides, Tigers, Twins, Phillies, Wings, Mets, Yankees, Angels, Dodgers tickets, and Dragons tickets.

Live the Experience when you buy Yankees Tickets, Red Sox Tickets, Rockies Tickets, Cleveland Indian Tickets, Padres Tickets, all MLB Tickets, NFL Tickets, Wicked Tickets at Tickets3D.com

Tickets Made Simple when you buy Yankees Tickets, Red Sox Tickets, Rockies Tickets, Cleveland Indian Tickets, Mariners Tickets, MLB Tickets, Seahawks Tickets, and all at Seattletixx.com

Buy Cheap MLB Tickets

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Page rendered in 1.2703 seconds
81 querie(s) executed