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Thursday, June 18, 2009

Reeves: Weight gain doesn’t prove Ruben Sierra cheated

On that basis and because of subsequent media speculation, I’ve seen several indignant blogs, comments and e-mails wondering if the Rangers just opened the steroids wing to their Hall of Fame this week with the announcement that Sierra and Toby Harrah are the club’s newest honorees.

Let me assure you that the 17-person committee that carefully studied the candidates and voted Sierra and Harrah into the Rangers Hall of Fame took the steroids issue into account before considering anyone. The possibility of Sierra using steroids was fully discussed.

Ruben missed being a unanimous choice by one vote, which tells you what our consensus was. Not one of the 18 qualified candidates whose name has been linked to steroids made the final cut to five.

The more I study the situation and talk to people, the more I become convinced that Sierra may be the most wronged player in the entire Major League Baseball steroid controversy, and I say that knowing full well that next week we could learn that he failed a drug test at some point in his career. That’s the baseball world we live in now.

The best evidence in Sierra’s favor is the numbers themselves. In 1989, at the tender age of 24, he was arguably the best player in baseball. He hit .306 with 14 triples, 29 home runs and an American League-leading 119 RBI.

He was the classic five-tool player. He could hit for average, hit for power, run, field and throw. In a voting travesty, he narrowly lost the MVP award to Milwaukee’s Robin Yount, a highway robbery that would change Sierra’s life.

Highway robbery? Huh…

Repoz Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:24 AM | 46 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:48 AM (#3223142)
That must mean Robin Yount used steroids.
   2. Jay Z Posted: June 18, 2009 at 04:11 AM (#3223146)
In the late 1980s the rep of the RBI was at its zenith, so I suppose the fact that the RBI leader didn't win the MVP like Andre Dawson, George Bell, and all of the other greats before him might have been considered highway robbery. It wasn't.
   3. HarryAbles Posted: June 18, 2009 at 05:00 AM (#3223165)
If you believe Chone's TZ numbers, Wade Boggs played a brilliant 3B that year, and was actually the one robbed.
   4. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 07:04 AM (#3223188)
The best evidence in Sierra’s favor is the numbers themselves. In 1989, at the tender age of 24, he was arguably the best player in baseball. He hit .306 with 14 triples, 29 home runs and an American League-leading 119 RBI.
I'm still trying to parse this argument. The fact that Sierra hit well is proof he didn't use steroids?

(Yes, I RTFA, and it doesn't get any less randomly illogical. He gained weight and got worse, so therefore he didn't use steroids.)

Incidentally, he was 23 that year, not 24, but I suppose it's too much for a reporter to do research and math.
   5. The Ghost of Pete Incaviglia Posted: June 18, 2009 at 07:08 AM (#3223189)
Good thing Reeves is sticking by his principles and not voting in Juan or Raffy! Oh, wait...
   6. whoisalhedges Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM (#3223242)
In 1989... he was arguably the best player in baseball.

Will Clark says hi.
   7. AJM Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:23 PM (#3223263)
The fact that Sierra hit well is proof he didn't use steroids?

(Yes, I RTFA, and it doesn't get any less randomly illogical. He gained weight and got worse, so therefore he didn't use steroids.)


You should know the procedure by now, David.

1. Do I think player used steroids?
2. Use information about player to conclude the answer to #1 is correct.
   8. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM (#3223264)
Heh. I'd actually be surprised if Sierra hadn't used. He was a big, bloated idiot in Oakland. The Canseco for Sierra trade was pure irony.
   9. RJ in TO Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:31 PM (#3223268)
Heh. I'd actually be surprised if Sierra hadn't used. He was a big, bloated idiot in Oakland.


So would I. I seem to remember a lot of people saying that the reason he'd dropped out of the league for a while was that he had bulked up to such a ridiculous level that he'd lost all flexibility.
   10. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:41 PM (#3223277)
So would I. I seem to remember a lot of people saying that the reason he'd dropped out of the league for a while was that he had bulked up to such a ridiculous level that he'd lost all flexibility.

He did look ridiculous there for a while. With Arthur Rhodes, one of my least favorite A's. Eric Show, Rhodes and Sierra might be the trinity of guys I wish had never worn the uniform. Canseco's also an embarassment, but he brings the comedy at least, so he misses the cut.
   11. PASTE is not impressed by Albert Pujols (Zeth) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:42 PM (#3223280)
The Monopoly rules say you get NOTHING when you land on Free Parking. Nada. Zilch. So if, as often was my case growing up, players take $500 from the bank whenever they land on Free Parking, and all the players do it... is it still cheating?

Aristotle won't return my phone calls.
   12. AROM Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:44 PM (#3223282)
Nothing shocking if we found out Sierra used, but if he did and it caused him to bulk up like he did, we have a clear case of steroids making a player worse.
   13. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:46 PM (#3223285)
Nothing shocking if we found out Sierra used, but if he did and it caused him to bulk up like he did, we have a clear case of steroids making a player worse.

He probably used them like a freakin idiot.
   14. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:48 PM (#3223290)
Ruben gained weight before he stole Jeter's glove.
[/Michael Kay]
   15. AROM Posted: June 18, 2009 at 12:49 PM (#3223292)
In a voting travesty, he narrowly lost the MVP award to Milwaukee’s Robin Yount, a highway robbery that would change Sierra’s life.


Yount deserved the award. This is the same kind of "highway robbery" that Rickey Henderson used the following year to rob Cecil Fielder: It was Robin's car in the first place.
   16. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 01:42 PM (#3223375)
You should know the procedure by now, David.

1. Do I think player used steroids?
2. Use information about player to conclude the answer to #1 is correct.
Good point, except that's clearly inaccurate. Step 2 should read:

Use "information" about player to conclude the answer to #1 is correct.
   17. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:01 PM (#3223394)
He probably used them like a <strike>freakin</strike> village idiot.
   18. bbc is prejudice bout men Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3223406)
i am all confused. i thought that every single man who gained any weight after he was 20 was a roider

i thought gaining weight is positive proof of roiding

unless it is losing weight is positive proof that he stopped roiding

unless he is a guy who has been declared as roid free for some reason even if he gained or lost weight.

i know that using roids makes baseball players hit home runs. and if they don't hit home runs it means they stopped using.

i get all confused when the roiders are manny alexander and pablo ozuna and alex sanchez
   19. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:19 PM (#3223418)
The Monopoly rules say you get NOTHING when you land on Free Parking. Nada. Zilch. So if, as often was my case growing up, players take $500 from the bank whenever they land on Free Parking, and all the players do it... is it still cheating?

What kind of lowlife thinks that they can change the rules of Monopoly?

Not only did we pay 500 for free parking, we added any fees or taxes the game imposed on players to the Free Parking pool.
   20. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:25 PM (#3223427)
Not only did we pay 500 for free parking, we added any fees or taxes the game imposed on players to the Free Parking pool.

Me too. In fact, I was stunned to find out that this isn't in the official rules.
   21. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:28 PM (#3223432)
Not only did we pay 500 for free parking, we added any fees or taxes the game imposed on players to the Free Parking pool

$#&^% stimulus-spending wealth redistributors. It's MONOPOLY, not THE FREE GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS TO LUCKY DUCKIES GAME.
   22. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:30 PM (#3223437)
$#&^% stimulus-spending wealth redistributors. It's MONOPOLY, not THE FREE GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS TO LUCKY DUCKIES GAME.

Had a bad experience in the jailhouse, huh, Mr. Bitter? Tell you what, 15% off your next stay on Ventnor Avenue. I'm generous like that.
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:34 PM (#3223442)
The Monopoly rules say you get NOTHING when you land on Free Parking. Nada. Zilch. So if, as often was my case growing up, players take $500 from the bank whenever they land on Free Parking, and all the players do it... is it still cheating?


the way we played, you don't take the money from the bank, you just take that pile of cash that is growing in the middle of the board
   24. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:34 PM (#3223444)
He was the classic five-tool player. He could hit for average, hit for power, run, field and throw. In a voting travesty, he narrowly lost the MVP award to Milwaukee’s Robin Yount, a highway robbery that would change Sierra’s life.

Technically, Ruben DID field and throw the ball. Doesn't say whether he did it well. Ruben's range was ok, but his arm was erratic as all get out.

This was not the 1987 Andre Dawson vote.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:39 PM (#3223452)
Heh. I'd actually be surprised if Sierra hadn't used. He was a big, bloated idiot in Oakland. The Canseco for Sierra trade was pure irony.

Ditto. I remember "STEROIDS" chants directed at Ruben in both Fenway and Yankee Stadium bleachers in his early days with Oakland.
   26. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:41 PM (#3223456)
Whatever else Sierra did in his career, incidentally, he got down the first-base line as fast as anyone, as if the hounds of hell were chasing him. He didn't stay in optimal shape, but he really hustled – at least early and late when he played for Texas; I don't know about his village-idiot days.
   27. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: June 18, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3223475)
Just looking at the MVP voting from 1989...and it is spaz-tastic. Wade Boggs came in 21st! when he, Yount or Saberhagen were a clear top 3. (Rickey, too, based on the shape of his season while Fred McGriff was great, too.) Dave Parker, a DH with a .741 OPS came in 11th, ahead of 21 game winner Dave Stewart and Carney Lansford and his .338 batting average/.398 OBA. Really, the down ballot voting was nutty.
   28. cardsfanboy Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:10 PM (#3223483)
the way we played, you don't take the money from the bank, you just take that pile of cash that is growing in the middle of the board

yep same here, nothing from the bank just the stack in the middle of the board.
   29. The Essex Snead Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:29 PM (#3223514)
I hope the intellectual rigor shown in this piece is carried over into other journalistic endeavors, such as:

- Bad Taste In Music & Film Doesn't Prove You're An Idiot
- Hairy Palms Don't Prove Someone Masturbates
- Smelling It Doesn't Prove The Smeller Dealt It
   30. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:30 PM (#3223516)
$#&^% stimulus-spending wealth redistributors. It's MONOPOLY, not THE FREE GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS TO LUCKY DUCKIES GAME.
Government? Hmm. Well, on the one hand the rules call it the "bank." On the other hand, when you have to pay taxes, you pay it to the bank, and that's sort of the definition of government. So maybe it's like the Bank of the U.S., a government-run bank.

But apparently this government has some sort of guaranteed minimum income, because you do get $200 every time you pass go. Plus, we know it's run by touchy-feely liberals, because you can't stay in jail more than three turns no matter what you did wrong.
   31. SandyRiver Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3223528)
In a voting travesty, he narrowly lost the MVP award to Milwaukee’s Robin Yount, a highway robbery that would change Sierra’s life.

Just to pile on . . .
Voting for a shortstop with OPS+ 152 over a RF with OPS+ 146 (in about the same PA) is a travesty? Maybe because Sierra's team was so much better? (83 wins vs 81)
   32. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3223529)
Voting for a shortstop with OPS+ 152 over a RF with OPS+ 146 (in about the same PA) is a travesty? Maybe because Sierra's team was so much better? (83 wins vs 81)
Shortstop? Check your calendar. Robin Yount was a CF, not a SS. Robin Yount hadn't been a shortstop since 1984.
   33. SandyRiver Posted: June 18, 2009 at 06:49 PM (#3223813)
Sometimes my 4s look like 9s. (Meaning, no excuse for my goof.)

However, though that decreases the positional difference, it doesn't invalidate the point.
   34. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: June 18, 2009 at 06:56 PM (#3223830)
But apparently this government has some sort of guaranteed minimum income, because you do get $200 every time you pass go. Plus, we know it's run by touchy-feely liberals, because you can't stay in jail more than three turns no matter what you did wrong.

I believe that you have to pay $50 to get out of jail after three rolls. If you don't have the cash, you stay.

So, again, class warfare.
   35. zenbitz Posted: June 18, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3223853)
29/30 back to back is killing me.
   36. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2009 at 01:28 AM (#3224409)
I believe that you have to pay $50 to get out of jail after three rolls. If you don't have the cash, you stay.
You do indeed have to pay $50 to get out, if you don't have a GOOJF card or roll doubles. If you don't have cash, you can mortgage properties or sell houses in order to raise it. The rules don't actually specify what happens if you can't raise the money at all; one presumes you lose. (Remaining in jail would actually be a benefit if you had less than $50 in total assets.)
   37. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: June 19, 2009 at 02:50 AM (#3224487)
(Remaining in jail would actually be a benefit if you had less than $50 in total assets.)


Actually, in the endgame, it would be a HUGE advantage. Since there are no more properties to buy, you have no opportunity costs, and you can't provide income to your opponents. Yet your opponents can still land on your properties, providing income to you.

How did I not think of that strategy when I was 8, and monopoly skills were actually valued by the fairer sex?

There must be some rule we are missing. Unless the rule was that you HAVE to pay to get out of jail, if you have rolled three times.
   38. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 19, 2009 at 02:56 AM (#3224499)
There must be some rule we are missing. Unless the rule was that you HAVE to pay to get out of jail, if you have rolled three times.
That is the rule, yes. To be specific, from the rules: "If you do not throw doubles by your third turn, you must pay the $50 fine." (emphasis added) The issue here is the rare case in which you can't pay $50.

EDIT: I guess it's no different than any other money owed -- say, luxury tax -- that you can't pay. And checking the rules, "You are declared bankrupt if you owe more than you can pay either to another player or to the Bank." So I guess you're simply bankrupt and out of the game. (I just never realized this, because I've never seen it happen that a player goes bankrupt to the bank. It's very hard to do.)
   39. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 19, 2009 at 03:53 AM (#3224547)
what's even weirder is that the voters suddenly decide to start giving Ripken MVP votes again--OPS+ of 105 with a lousy .317 OBP, worst year of his career to that point, gets him 3rd in the voting!? Did everybody just suddenly decide he was a defensive great the previous offseason?
   40. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: June 19, 2009 at 04:00 AM (#3224551)
Do any of you play Monopoly with Free Parking treated "the right way"? That is, it's essentially a do-nothing spot.
   41. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: June 19, 2009 at 04:04 AM (#3224554)
what's even weirder is that the voters suddenly decide to start giving Ripken MVP votes again--OPS+ of 105 with a lousy .317 OBP, worst year of his career to that point, gets him 3rd in the voting!? Did everybody just suddenly decide he was a defensive great the previous offseason?

I'm certain it had to do with his supposed leadership on a team that leaped from last (54-107) to 2nd place.
   42. a bebop a rebop Posted: June 19, 2009 at 04:15 AM (#3224563)
Actually, in the endgame, it would be a HUGE advantage. Since there are no more properties to buy, you have no opportunity costs, and you can't provide income to your opponents. Yet your opponents can still land on your properties, providing income to you.

I haven't actually checked to see if it's official, but under the rules we played with, you couldn't make money while you were in jail. Strategy nerfed!

Also, we played with the Free Parking Jackpot Bonanza rules (no bank $500, though).
   43. Howie Menckel Posted: June 19, 2009 at 04:24 AM (#3224569)
"Do any of you play Monopoly with Free Parking treated "the right way"? That is, it's essentially a do-nothing spot."

We always played that way in my neigborhood, and laughed at the dumb kids who didn't get it.
Then we got older and encountered the primitives, and they eagerly acceded to the request to "review the rules."

as noted above, many stunned and embarrassed faces.

Some sociologist could have a field day - why do most sub-cultures play by rules that don't exist?

;)
   44. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 19, 2009 at 04:31 AM (#3224576)
I haven't actually checked to see if it's official, but under the rules we played with, you couldn't make money while you were in jail. Strategy nerfed!


It's spelled out that you can, though I'm not sure we played that way when I was a kid. But I reread the rules when we bought the kids Monopoly for Christmas.

And if you're playing by those rules, then once the properties are bought (and houses/hotels are in place), then getting sent to jail really is the best outcome on the board.
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