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Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.
And the sun rises in the east.
I wonder if he'll now be hated? Not voted into the HOF?
How many drugs did they do?
I've seen the same list. Which probably verifies it's BS. I hope it's not accurate.
If Mo Vaughn was also on roids, as the list suggests, he needs a refund.
That means he's almost guaranteed to retire. That'd be 3 Christmasi in about 4 months...wait nevermind he comes back in June...7 months.
Just shows you where people's motives lie...
I thought no Mets on the 40-man roster was on the list. Castro's giant head is a pretty obvious tipoff.
Just shows you where people's motives lie...
Wasn't a list always the motive? I always assumed it. This is red meat for the mob. We're going to look back at this in 20 years and we will be shocked by our collective stupidity.
I wonder which one they mean?
Exactly. Every player on the list has plausible deniability. If the only methodology the report sights is "[blank] said this about [blank]", the only thing the players have to suffer is a nasty newspaper column or two.
Selig begins to show his colors with this statement. He just wants to publish something and move on.
This is SO not about actually dealing with steroid use or calling into question the management folks that enabled the behavior. This is about public relations. Get everyone to focus on the "overpriced" players and forget that management turned a blind eye toward this behavior. The next collective barganing negotiation between the MLBPA and MLB will be interesting. The Mitchell report will be at the center of the negotiations even if all the players named are retired.
It will be an interesting read, but I am highly skeptical of the motives of MLB.
I notice the "(probably BS) list" above includes Pujols. Is this a shocker, or is this based on the old rumor that his trainer's name was on Grimsley's affidavit?
Edit: I saw that list too on Somethingawful
Is that even legal?
Double jeopardy?
well no wonder they said "its going to be a bad day in the Bronx" - look at all those terrific fan-favorite Yankees!
The only thing I can think of that this might mean is "Big Head Woman".
---------
It would be great if 80% of the report is devoted to listing players' heights and symptoms of acromegaly, in order to detect possible abuse of HGH during childhood and adolescence.
"The following players are banned for life:
1. Jon Rauch"
a) saw the player take steroids,
b) sold the player steroids or saw the player with steroids,
c) heard the player talk about taking steroids,
d) heard someone else talk about the player taking steroids,
e) "knew" from looking at the player
or the committee talked to the player directly and the player admitted to taking steroids, or admitted taking steroids in a media report? Which kinds of evidence were enough to land a player on the list?
I laughed.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SCOOPS! NO ONE REMEMBERS WHO HAD IT RIGHT, ONLY WHO HAD IT FIRST! NO ONE IN THE NEWS MEDIA, ANYWAY!
BREAKER! BREAKER! BREAKING NEWS! I HAVE IT ON THE AUTHORITY OF MY ASS THAT PETE ORR SIGNED A BELOW-MARKET CONTRACT BECAUSE HE KNEW THERE WAS A 50-GAME SUSPENSION COMING! AND TADAHITO IGUCHI TOO! DUCHSCHERER! STECHSCHULTE! STUCKENSCHNEIDER! AND THAT'S WHY KEN CLOUDE RETIRED, BECAUSE HE HAD REFUSED TO TAKE A URINE TEST! HIS URINE WAS UNSEEMLY!
Since the report won't be accurate, we might as well make our own #### up. We're being creative! We are poets!
And the list will name Cap Anson as a roids user, and disclose that the negro leagues invented steroids on the same day that they invented batting helmets and the bunt.
Black Hawk Waterloo?
To comment on the Glaus naming?
Grasping, I know....
Which list? The bogus, purely speculative and not in any way meant to defame, detract, or otherwise malign any named individual posted in this thread or the bogus for different reasons list coming out later today? In answer to the latter, I'd say everything you mention but d and e. I only exclude d because there are only 80 names, and exclude e out of blind hope that they wouldn't do that.
Not to mention Pud Galvin's monkey testicle tonic.
Clearly this is unintentional, the result of a tainted Ring Ding.
I wouldn't have immediately guessed him, but not surprising if true.
Aren't steroids supposed to cause acne? Makes me think any player with excessive and grotesque facial hair could be trying to hide something. Yes, I know that means Spiezio would be a suspect.
(Keep in mind I'm from the Dallas area, and we hate everything Houston, as they do DFW.)
Who has seemly urine?
Ezeqiuel Astacio is probably guilty then.
And yes, if Clemens is named, I will jump for joy.
Thankfully it's Varitek's third cousin "IJason" and not the Captain hisself.
David F. Bell?
The most endearing element of bogusness is the half-assed attempt to make it alphabetical...
Rich Garces, how could you?
Bagwell has long been a suspected juicer. It would mildly disappoint me were he named, I guess, but it wouldn't even remotely surprise me.
The IJ is a clue that the list was put together by a Dutch person.
Bert Blyleven, why must you spread lies and slander?!
"Circle me, Bert!" takes an ominous turn.
I've heard about a lot of different drugs, but never that one. Must be one of those designer molecules.
riiiight.
which is why no longtime or current Red Sox players were mentioned.
Six Degrees of LaRussa. Loads of fun......
that's not fair, he can't even do a 180 without falling down drunk!
and Edward James Olmos
wok, are you saying you wouldn't care if papi was in the report? i sure as hell would. and manny?
I can understanding having an irrational attachment to Pedro. I can understand having an irrational attachment to Curt. But it seems odd that of all the Red Sox, you'd choose those two as a pair. Could they be any different than they are?
Really? I've never heard a word.
Perhaps...but what would you say if it turned out LaRussa's players didn't 'roid up more than anyone else's? (Not that I actually think we're in any danger of actually knowing.)
And Jessica Simpson. And my brother, that pock marked son of a #####!
I never liked the horse's ass to begin with.
Is she, or is she not, otherwise enhanced?
VERIFIED.
only 2 RHP since Nolan Ryan with 300 K's in a season?
That's OK, I'm from America and we hate everything Texas. Well, everything except Hank Hill, but he was born in New York City.
He was good buddies with Caminiti, wasn't he?
This is awesome.
The only thing I can think of that this might mean is "Big Head Woman".
Um, thanks.
A coupla years ago, kevin was talking about how some users were obvious, something like that. I challenged him to name who was obvious. He chose to do so privately, emailing me.
Clemens and Johnson were the two he named. I agreed that they were "superficial" (for lack of a better word, as this preceded any hard evidence, iIrc) suspects, and that few would be surprised were they to be named.
Regarding the names we're now hearing as rumored (Bagwell, Nomar and the like), I wonder if at some point all of this becomes ridiculous, and the more big names that come out, the less important this issue seems to the public. If everyone's doing it, then it's hard to summon up moral outrage for any particular player. Along those lines, I wonder if these players all now get into the Hall of Fame. It would look pretty ridiculous if now the best players in the game's history -- Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. -- are left out of the Hall.
As you know, many people are madder at Bonds for being Bonds than for Bonds using steroids. Bonds' use of steroids are just "bias confirmation" so to speak.
This is not true of Andy.
Wishful thinking, I expect. Did finding out that Shoeless Joe and Eddie Cicotte were in on fixing games make that more palatable?
At any rate, if this were true, you'd find more and more players willing to admit taking steroids over time. Don't think that will happen.
If everyone's doing it, then it's hard to summon up moral outrage for any particular player.
Believe it or not, most people are outraged about cheating, and don't care about specific players. The more players that are shown to have done steroids, the worse it is.
Funny thing? Troy Glaus wasn't...whoda thunk?
:P
I think that the sort of above-it-all feeling that I see in this thread and others - I don't care who's named, the fix is in, steroids don't matter, everyone did it - is certainly a defensible negotiation of this situation, but it isn't mine.
If Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, or Jonathan Papelbon is on the list, I'll be sad. I am invested in their athletic greatness - and in Pedro's case, I'm fully invested in him as a human being, silly though that may be - and I would be saddened to find out that there's evidence of PED use.
We wouldn't be here if we didn't have these sorts of fanboy/fangirl investments, and I do suspect that a lot of people are covering them up out of some combination of shame and defensiveness.
Since I think that PED use is bad, this matters. I think that the problem is structural much more the individual/ethical, that is, I think that MLB as an organization created a situation where players were objectively coerced into PED use despite its health hazards, and I can completely understand why people used. There's still an ethical responsibility, there, though - that the players contributed to such as unjust culture of coercion and use, so I'd be sad on that ethical level as well.
I feel bad for the Clemens fans on the board, Darren in particular. That sucks.
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