My first reaction is: I like it.

Can we get Juan Rivera back now?

I guess this means they will be returning Hoffman to the Dodgers, which means they traded Brian Bruney for nothing.

Curtis Granderson
Greg Golson
Randy Winn
Marcus Thames

The Yankees have identified the new market inefficiency - black outfielders.

Randy Winn is black?

I guess this means they will be returning Hoffman to the Dodgers, which means they traded Brian Bruney for nothing.

Well it's only a minor league deal, so I'm guessing it's a good ol' ST battle for the 5th OFer spot. Unless Thames has an opt-out if he doesn't make the big league club, I think Hoffmann has the upper hand since they don't have the option of stashing him in AAA.

I guess this means they will be returning Hoffman to the Dodgers, which means they traded Brian Bruney for nothing.

Can't the Yankees trade him to some other team, provided said team keeps him on the 25 man roster or do they have to offer him to the Dodgers first?

Thames was the subject of one of my greatest baseball blog posts.

It was the winter of 2005/06, some site discussing what players some team should use the next year, and I mentioned someone's minor league stats, which prompted a vociferous reaction from some other poster, to paraphrase, "minor league stats? that's useless they tell you nothing, absolutely nothing, scouts can tell you a little, but not enough to be really useful, you need to give a guy a couple hundred MLB at bats, but sometimes a team can't afford to take that risk... MLEs? Impossible, can't work, I don't need to look at them, batting in the majors is fundamentally different than the minors... etc etc etc..."

This discussion had to do with whether some team should sign a certain seasoned vet (I forget who, but it was someone below average)or give the job to youngster who "projected" to be much better (not Thames BTW)... The poster opined that given this team's situation (borderline contention) it was FAR too risky to let the youngster play.

A Tigers' fan poster chimed in to agree with the other guy- and he mentioned Thames- something like "I've seen an MLE of Thames that has him slugging .500, that's nuts, completely nuts"

First guy then challenged me, "Thames? That proves MLEs are crap, MLEs say he can hit, he can't, he's proven he can't"

I said, "No, what MLEs show is that Thames is wildly inconsistent, but he has hit well enough in 2-3 years in AAA to show that he could hit in the majors, he's also shown that he could hit .215"

\"########, one of the other posters said, he's AAA slugger and he will NEVER do anything in teh majors, NEVER"

They then called me a troll (basically I was treated the way Tommy in CT has been getting treated here)
Dammed if Thames didn't start 2006 in the Majors, like a house on fire, couldn't find those two posters again after the season began though...

I've always liked Thames since, nothing special though, a decent extra bat

Randy Winn is black?

Well I'll be damned. I had no idea.

Of course, Hoffman is somewhat of a defensive specialist and Thames ... isn't. Though I suppose he could fill a Ruben Rivera type role...

Can we get Juan Rivera back now?

You jest, but the following former Yankees have been reacquired since 2008:

Marte
Nick Johnson
Vazquez
Thames

Apparently Juan Rivera is next, right after they trade Nick Swisher for Brad Halsey.

A Tigers' fan poster chimed in to agree with the other guy- and he mentioned Thames- something like "I've seen an MLE of Thames that has him slugging .500, that's nuts, completely nuts"

That's kind of weird, Thames had slugged over .500 in 60 games for the Tigers only a year before. You would think seeing someone do something would be enough proof for a person to concede that it was possible, but I guess not.

Der Komminsk, As an expert on black outfielders, I can tell you that Marcus Thames and Craig Monroe are not the same person.

Der Komminsk, As an expert on black outfielders, I can tell you that Marcus Thames and Craig Monroe are not the same person.

I couldn't tell if he was jesting, but if he was I would think he would have compared Thames to Juan Rivera.

Gardner's a defensive specialist so once the Winn signing sent him (mostly) to the bench, I don't think Hoffman had much of a role.

I'm not a big fan of the Yanks carrying 5 OF though. That would leave them with one backup IF and a DH who can't really play anything useful in the field (i.e. he can give Tex a day off now and then but you can't trot him out to 3B or LF). Were I the Yanks, I'd want to be giving AROD and Jeter reasonable time off (in the DH slot) which, with other standard day-to-day injuries and such, would likely require 2 backup IFs (preferably one of whom can play some OF).

Also, this is yet another "wouldn't he have been better than Podsednik?" signing.

I don't think the Winn signing sent Gardner anywhere. There's no point in starting Winn over Gardner, at least to begin the season. Winn is going to start as the 4th OF, RH platoon partner, late inning defensive sub (for Swisher) and PR.

Thames as 5th OF wouldn't be a bad add, since it would allow you to play both Winn and Thames against LHP if you wanted.

With Curtis Granderson on the roster, the Yankees really must have a good RHB pinch-hitter on the bench. Their DH is also a lefty and should be expected to need regular days off.

The Yankees don't need a backup 1B on their roster because their DH is a pretty good defensive 1B, so they have the option of running a four-man bench with two outfielders on it.

I agree with Walt that the Yankees would do well to have a good 3B/SS backup, but a player who can play solid shortstop defense while not creating a hole in the lineup where Jeter's (or Nick Johnson's) bat once stood isn't going to come cheaply. I expect the Yankees will continue to plan for 150 games from ARod and Jeter.

My question is, though- is Thames better than Shelley Duncan? I guess having two of them beats having just one.

The Yankees non-tendered Duncan, and the Indians signed him to a minor-league deal.

Thames is a bad OF'er, if you buy Fangraph's UZR stuff.

The Yankees have identified the new market inefficiency - black outfielders.

they need them to counteract the awe-inspiring vortex of whiteness that is Mark Teixiera.

and AJ Burnett and Phil Hughes.


the Yankee blogoshepere was talking about the potential of using Sheffield in such a role in the last few days, I think Thames might not hit as well even at this stage in Sheff's career... but he probably can field a lot more competently

You jest, but the following former Yankees have been reacquired since 2008:

Marte
Nick Johnson
Vazquez
Thames

and Andy Pettitte.

I couldn't tell if he was jesting, but if he was I would think he would have compared Thames to Juan Rivera.
The answer is in the associated URL - both Ruben and Marcus have been accused of theft (Thames, admittedly, not from his teammates - a pretty important distinction).
Not a great joke, but I thought it was well enough known that I almost didn't provide the explanatory link.

Anyhoo, I'd pass on this move if I ran NYY. Really good power, but doesn't get on base, doesn't defend well - you can do better.

You jest, but the following former Yankees have been reacquired since 2008:

Marte
Nick Johnson
Vazquez
Thames

Apparently Juan Rivera is next, right after they trade Nick Swisher for Brad Halsey.

Where is Randy Choate, anyway?

Where is Randy Choate, anyway?

Wasn't he closing for TB at one point last year? Let's see...well, he only had five saves, but that was third on the team. So I'll say "yes."

Anyhoo, I'd pass on this move if I ran NYY. Really good power, but doesn't get on base, doesn't defend well - you can do better.

It's an NRI, fer cryin' out loud. He's competing for a chance to get stashed at Scranton in case somebody gets hurt.

Sure (or at least maybe). But there are better options available, even if they aren't as famous. Everything matters...

[At this point, I'll note that the guy I sit next to at work has found Mr. Thames a pretty good guy in his dealings with him - so maybe there's a plus in the clubhouse factor.)

I guess that being less famous than Marcus Thames is something of an accomplishment.

It would be the wrong move, but it would be totally crazy and weird if the Yanks brought in Nomar to be the back-up utility guy who gave A-Rod or Jeter days off.

28: Not for the guys still hanging around the NRI line...

EDIT: Ok - I'm perhaps being a bit too harsh - he really does have very nice power. At minimum, he's a bad tactical fit at the big league level. (Also, not as good as Shelley Duncan, imo - though he's now with Cleveland, so that's moot.)

I agree with Walt that the Yankees would do well to have a good 3B/SS backup, but a player who can play solid shortstop defense while not creating a hole in the lineup where Jeter's (or Nick Johnson's) bat once stood isn't going to come cheaply.

Tex used to play 3rd and looks good enough defensively at first that he probably would serve as an ok backup there. Same may be possible with A-Rod and SS... NJ can play 1B... Swisher can cover either OF corner and 1B fairly well, CF if absolutely necessary. Granderson and Gardener can probably play any OF spot well. 2B would be the only position not covered twice over by the starting line-up. Actually using all of this flexibility would never happen of course but it would be cool.

*2b and C

not as good as Shelley Duncan, imo - though he's now with Cleveland, so that's moot

Since this is the second time that Duncan's been brought up I have to ask -- you guys do understand why Duncan is no longer a Yankee (and Thames is no longer a Tiger), don't you? Duncan was out of options. Even if they hadn't needed to open up a 40-man roster spot, they would have had to keep him on the major league roster or get him through waivers eventually. And when he cleared waivers, he'd have had the right to become a FA, since he'd already been outrighted to the minors once. The Yankees would have been perfectly happy to re-sign Duncan to a minor league contract after they waived him, but he decided that he had a better shot at sticking on a major league roster somewhere else.

2B would be the only position not covered twice over by the starting line-up.

Posada is a converted second baseman. ;-)

33: Of course. Then again, they could have kept him on the 40 if they thought he had a legit shot at a 25 man roster spot*. They did not. He's only worth mentioning for being a little better than Thames at almost everything (MT has more raw power - but Duncan has better overall projections on O and D by almost any system imaginable.).

* Granted, if his odds weren't good, you may want to let him go early as a show of goodwill to a guy you've kept buried.

Where is Randy Choate, anyway?

I happened to be watching a game between the Rays and Yanks when, in the bottom of the ninth with a two run lead, the Rays brought in Choate to get the final out. I did a complete double take - not only at realizing that he was still pitching, but that he was being brought in in this kind of situation. Afterwards I heard (or read) that it was his third save in his last three appearances.

It looks like he was a serviceable reliever last year, allowing runs in only 11 of 61 appearances and averaging well over two batters per appearance. He's no Tyler Clippard, though...

And what about that Alba the Ho guy?

I couldn't tell if he was jesting, but if he was I would think he would have compared Thames to Juan Rivera.
The answer is in the associated URL - both Ruben and Marcus have been accused of theft (Thames, admittedly, not from his teammates - a pretty important distinction).
Not a great joke, but I thought it was well enough known that I almost didn't provide the explanatory link.

Anyhoo, I'd pass on this move if I ran NYY. Really good power, but doesn't get on base, doesn't defend well - you can do better.

BTW: I cannot tell Thames and Craig Monroe apart in the superficial sense they are both black, hit with some power and are generally fringe MLB players.

However, Craig Monroe is the one accused of trying to steal a belt from a store.

Ruben Rivera is the one who otherwise stole memorabilia out of a teammate's [Jeter] locker to try to sell.

At times fans confuse Ruben Rivera with Juan Rivera, who an Angels' outfieder, when citing the memorabilia incident.

Tex used to play 3rd and looks good enough defensively at first that he probably would serve as an ok backup there. Same may be possible with A-Rod and SS... NJ can play 1B... Swisher can cover either OF corner and 1B fairly well, CF if absolutely necessary. Granderson and Gardener can probably play any OF spot well. 2B would be the only position not covered twice over by the starting line-up. Actually using all of this flexibility would never happen of course but it would be cool.

Cano is their primary back up 3B if Pena or whoever the utility infielder ends up being isn't avalible.

Thames isn't as "interesting" as Shelley though. but in terms of baseball skills he's likely a bit of a upgrade.

And what about that Alba the Ho guy?

Albaladejo pitched reasonabbly well in 08 but blew out his elbow after just 13 innings. last year he was pretty bad. still walking too many guys but no longer whiffing them at an acceptable pace. Right now he and Edwar Ramirez seems to be the first to walk the plank if the Yanks need to open up a roster spot, and I have a little more faith in Ramirez, who at least still showed that nutty changeup last year and is still just a little bit of a control improvement from being a usable reliever again. of course the Yanks have a slew of those guys. Kevin Whelan (the sole remaining prospect from the Gary Sheffield trade yet to make the majors... though also that means he's the only one who's likely to contribute in a non-negative fashion) is another guy who can throw some nasty stuff but obviously needs some dorky glasses.

BTW: I cannot tell Thames and Craig Monroe apart in the superficial sense they are both black, hit with some power and are generally fringe MLB players.

I can outdumb that by miles-- I once screwed up Don Baylor vs. Dusty Baker on this board, while fulminating about how one had screwed up a playoff game. (It was the other one.) If only they weren't exact contemporaries... or if they had different initials... or if either of them had been a better manager... or had been a speedster as a player... or a third baseman... or had a bushy German mustache and a missing limb and a parrot on his shoulder and a sex tape and walked on stilts...

Cano is their primary back up 3B if Pena or whoever the utility infielder ends up being isn't avalible.

How does that solve anything? It just moves the hole to 2B, if the UIF is unavailable.

Tex to 3B, Swisher to 1B, at least lets you use your 4th OF.