It was the dribbliest of hits, but still a hit.

If CC handles it he likely gets LaRoche. But it's a close play and the hitter gets the benefit of the doubt.

The only hard hit ball was a liner right at Hall.

Too bad...

Agreed. It was a hit. Kind of demonstrates how lucky you have to be to throw a no-hitter. It's hard to record 27 outs without at least a couple little dribblers turning into singles.

I hope to God this isn't being discussed after 12:30 am Monday. It's too bad, but nothing to lose sight of the bigger picture over. If you're 23 games under .500 maybe, but I hope I don't hear this at all during my Monday tailgate at Miller Park.

That was an error, imo, but I don't think they'll change it. I totally disagree that it would have been a close play if CC didn't fumble it. It's a shame he did though.

Ah Joe, too bad your eyes are going.

He would have had to pick, whirl and throw a seed to first.

A lot of well executed acts by the big guy to pull it off.

Musta used up his lucky gets with the barehand grab of McLouth's humpback liner.

Sabathia now has the lead in SHO in the NL and is tied for the lead in the AL. I wonder if anybody has been in first place for SHO in each league in the same year?

I'm not disagreeing with you Harvey, but if he picks throws and it is wild, guess what, E1.

It would not have been close at 1st (i.e. bang-bang), but I agree if he does pick the ball, it is still a tough play to throw the ball on the money.

Sabathia now has the lead in SHO in the NL and is tied for the lead in the AL. I wonder if anybody has been in first place for SHO in each league in the same year?

I was wondering that, too. And if he does, does he get double black-ink credit on BBref?

Is the appeals process for changing hits to errors a new item? I remember two years ago when Greg Maddux was pitching for the Cubs he had a game in late May/early June where he gave up a bunch of runs, and then something like 5 weeks later when he was on the trading block, the scorer suddenly changed one of the hits to an error which took 5 ER off his record, substantially lowering his ERA. That seemd pretty suspicious to me, and I was shocked it got nothing more than a footnote-type blurb anywhere. But maybe the rule has changed since then, or maybe it only took 5 weeks because they had to go through this appeals process.

Edit: Must have been this game and going through the numbers, at the time he was traded his ERA would have been 5.02 instead of the 4.69 it was.

I heard some anounchers talking about how here's a kinda unwritten rule with official scorers that if a pitcher's throwing a no-hitter you give him the benefit of the doubt on anything close like this.

M V P

M V P

M V P

I remember two years ago when Greg Maddux was pitching for the Cubs he had a game in late May/early June where he gave up a bunch of runs, and then something like 5 weeks later when he was on the trading block, the scorer suddenly changed one of the hits to an error which took 5 ER off his record, substantially lowering his ERA. That seemd pretty suspicious to me, and I was shocked it got nothing more than a footnote-type blurb anywhere. But maybe the rule has changed since then, or maybe it only took 5 weeks because they had to go through this appeals process.

Earlier this season Marmol gave up a bunch of runs in late June and they were changed to unearned after the All-Star Break.

The hilarious part about all this is how it highlights how silly the error rule is. Why is it more noble to give up a baserunner through your own fielding error, than through pitching?

If it was one of his fielders who made an error, then fine, but this was Sabathia himself!

And this is just me cranky self talking but CC didn't spring off the mound. He was counting on a 95 mph bb to do the trick. Only he whiffed.

So, no quarter from this geezer. Had your chance there Mr. Big Britches...

Matt Garza (TBR), Roy Halladay (TOR), Jon Lester (BOS), James Shields (TBR), and Kevin Slowey* (MIN) in the AL all are tied with Sabathia with 2. At least one of them should get one more.

*Joe Hangingcurveballguy has no shutouts

I will admit to being at the game today and will be p#ssed if they make me wrong by changing it to an error.

And for proof it was Kid's Day and the giveaway was a Pirate wall clock courtesy of Bayer. Who gives a kid a clock?

It was also German Day. But no d#mn brats! And the Yuengling via draft was only behind home. Cripes.

I don't like the ruling but it is pretty much in line with the standard in these cases. Pithers are expected to do essentially nothing. If they field the ball cleanly and have the guy out by a mile, then misfire, it's an error. But if they have any trouble fielding the ball, it's almost always a hit. The only exception to that is when the ball is dribbled right at the pitcher and he has the runner dead by 10 miles, then fails to pick it up.

FWIW, LaRoche said he thinks it should be ruled an error.

We should all be most concerned with the real victim here: my fantasy team.

Ah, Andy is as dumb as his brother looks.

Seriously, they had various players on the scoreboard and Adam might as well as being living in a trailer in Alabama hunting raccoon at night. What a rube. He's a modern day appearance of Alibi Ike.....

I've only seen it on MLB, on a sluggish computer, but from the overhead cam they use it looks like Slobbathia had the ball in hand before the runner was halfway to 1b, ergo, error.

edit: it's even worse (or better) than that. CC turned and was in position to throw before the runner was more than halfway down the line.

I've seen the play now, and agree that it should have probably been an error. Having said that, I hope they don't change it.

To me, half the importance of pitching a no-hitter, is getting through the last few innings, knowing what's on the line. CC gave up the hit in the fifth, which took away all the pressure of actually pitching the no-hitter. He never had a chance to choke it away...

Post 19 speaks directly to the dreadful at bats by Pittsburgh in the last 2 innings.

Can't help but think in other circumstances they would have been more focussed.

You know, if he wanted the no-hitter, he should have picked it up and thrown it away. He would have at least had a better chance.

Why? Dreadful at-bats are the Pirates' norm.

Yeah, it's not really the same thing as pitching knowing you've given up no hits so far. Creating the no-hitter retroactively, if MLB decides to do that (which I doubt they will), seems wrong to me.

I watched the little video blurb on ESPN, and (gulp) I think Kruk was spot on. It's an error. LaRoche was barely halfway down the line as CC was picking up the ball. He got to the ball in plenty of time and had already partially turned his body into proper position to throw to first. He hadn't completely surrounded the ball before picking it up, as you're taught to do, but if he picks it up cleanly and makes an accurate throw, LaRoche is out by five feet.

That said, I share the sentiment that pitching a no-hitter without the pressure of pitching a no-hitter somewhat cheapens the achievement. It was an error, but I think MLB should let the scorer's decision stand.

Yeah, but that's why Sabathia missed the ball: He turned too quickly. If he takes the time to make sure to make a clean play on it, it's going to be a close play at first base.

*I* personally would have scored this an error, but this play is routinely scored a hit, and now would be a particularly poor time to go and reverse that.

I thought it was a hit, but reasonable people can disagree. Yost was really angry as if this was something important. I'd be more worried about keeping my team healthy for the playoffs.

I was there also and have watched several tape replays.

A few clarifications are needed. It was not a bunt but a checked swing. LaRoche claimed that it was the first slider Sabathia threw to him and he hesitated on the swing.

As such, everyone was initially startled as the ball began to curve toward the third base line. LaRoche was running hard from the start which Sabathia could easily see. From the distant camera angle replay, LaRoche was entering the 45 foot line at the point Sabathia was attempting to grasp the ball with his back still toward first base. The Official Scorer told the press that the ball's spinning toward the line influenced his decision much like a "bad hop". Had Sabathia grasped the ball on the first try, he still had to turn, acquire the base and make an accurate throw. The play would have been close and the OS believed the result could have been safe or out. The degree of difficulty was much like a charging third baseman on a slow grounder. At the time of the play, no one said a word in the press box.

A second clarification - the OS has 24 hours after the game ends to change any decision he/she made in the game. After that, it is the league's doing.

I was at the game, and the play looked like an error to me. I can see the argument for it being a hit, but the scorer should have followed the unwritten rule not to score the first hit of a game on a questionable play. CC threw a no-no as far as I'm concerned. In response to the argument that it shouldn't count because CC didn't feel the attendant pressure, I have two responses: 1)CC knew right away that the Brewers would appeal the play with a decent chance of success (they had a scoring decision reversed earlier this year), so he knew he still had a chance at a no-hitter; and 2)It wouldn't matter, anyway. The Pirates had no clue what to do against CC. As Harvey points out, there was only one hard-hit ball all day.

Well, I'm sure glad you're there to tell us what everyone on the field was thinking, and exactly how the game would have gone, if it had been scored an error.

I'm also gladdened by the fact that CC is such a baseball nut that he knew about previous Brewers minutiae even though he wasn't on the team back then or even thought he would be on the team. What a gamer, he should win the NL Cy Young.

When are they going to get around to charging Kevin Orie with an error?

LaRoche was running hard from the start which Sabathia could easily see.

He clearly doesn't think enough about his future.

I'm also gladdened by the fact that CC is such a baseball nut that he knew about previous Brewers minutiae even though he wasn't on the team back then or even thought he would be on the team.

Of course he does. Who doesn't know of the famous Milwaukee Overturn of June 12? I think there are ongoing talks about the possibility of a commemorative plaque at Minute Maid Stadium.

I'm not disagreeing with you Harvey, but if he picks throws and it is wild, guess what, E1.

Not really. A bad throw by the pitcher on a rushed play is often scored a hit. If CC just picks up the ball and throws it away you're looking at a hit and a throwing error that allows the runner to advance. Still not a no-no.