He denied the specific allegation in the Mitchell Report -- that he provided McNamee steroids to inject into him -- AND the general allegation that he took steroids. Sheesh, if he had said, "McNamee never gave me any steroids," you'd have jumped on him and said, "Aha, he didn't deny giving steroids to McNamee." So he denied both, and you're ignoring the second part and pretending he only said the first.


No, I wouldn't and I didn't jump on him for the original statement. I jumped on him, when I found out, it conveniently left out an escape clause.

The one thing you aren't responding to is the factual situation Clemens has now created. He has now admitted to injections, and McNamee controlling the product being used in the injection. That is "teh flackseed."

If he would have stuck with "he never injected me." (by implication or overt statement) or he would have originally disclosed what was injected into his ass, you wouldn't find me jumping on the statements.

But you are now confusing me with someone else. I jumped on the statements now, when he waits this time to say, "Yeah Brian injected me but it was what my agent said I did, yeah, teh B12."

No, they're McNamee's words. (Again with the sheesh. When his own spokesperson says he used B-12, you try to make a distinction between his spokesperson saying it and him saying it. But when McNamee says it, you put McNamee's words in Clemens' mouth.)

I think you need to turn the 'sheesh' around. You want to believe something is Clemens statement when it isn't even attributed to Clemens, yet when we here about Roger's pet name for a shot, you want it to be used to show that is where the shot is given.

I'm at a loss for your point. I presume you think it shows the statement is unlikely true because McNamee PhD doesn't even know how to give an hGH shot, so he could not have given one to Clemens.

That just seems very far fetched considering Pettite admitted to getting shots hGH shots from McNamee.

I presume you aren't throwing FUD that McNamee obtained hGH from Radomski.

And I don't know, and I probably don't want to know where the PhD thing comes from, but you are talking about:

(a) A guy that throws bats saying, "I thought it was the ball"; and
(b) Names his kids with a "K"

I don't care how many posters Darren has up for Clemens, but I have no trouble believing he'd refer to his treatement as the "belly button shot".

Why on earth would Pettitte confess to something he didn't do?

Maybe I am misunderstood here.

Pettiitte admitted it, fine. But does anybody believe that that he only injected twice on a Tuesday, and then never touched the stuff again. Its like finding $10,000 worth of HGH receipts in Matt Williams name and believing his excuse that he tried it once and didn't like the way it made him feel.
These people giving admission come right out and lie to your face, and witch hunters are ok with that .. andy Pettitte is no different and it is odd..

That just seems very far fetched considering Pettite admitted to getting shots hGH shots from McNamee.

Actually, I don't believe that's correct. Pettitte admitted using HGH, but did not even mention McNamee, let alone admit getting shots from him.

I think you need to turn the 'sheesh' around. You want to believe something is Clemens statement when it isn't even attributed to Clemens, yet when we here about Roger's pet name for a shot, you want it to be used to show that is where the shot is given.

It was a statement issued on behalf of Clemens by Clemens' spokesperson, attributed to Clemens:

In an e-mailed statement to Newsday, Randy Hendricks, one of Clemens' agents, wrote, "Roger says it is all nonsense. Roger takes vitamin B-12 shots, took them last year, has passed every test, will take them this year, and will pass every test. Roger says the fact that he and Jose talked about something does not mean he ever said he took anything.

You calling it "Roger's pet name for a shot" is like Kevin insisting that Jason Grimsley witnessed Clemens using steroids because the LA Times said so. It's McNamee's name for it. The Mitchell Report uses the words, quoting McNamee. Not Clemens.

Pettiitte admitted it, fine. But does anybody believe that that he only injected twice on a Tuesday, and then never touched the stuff again. Its like finding $10,000 worth of HGH receipts in Matt Williams name and believing his excuse that he tried it once and didn't like the way it made him feel.
These people giving admission come right out and lie to your face, and witch hunters are ok with that .. andy Pettitte is no different and it is odd..


Forgive me, but what the hell are you talking about? Pettitte's words were doubted by "the witch hunters".

Chris: I suppose it's possible Clemens actually believes he was getting b-12 injections. [/blank stare]

People are going to believe what they're predisposed to believe. Meanwhile, the nooses are tightening...

Joe, that was *completely* in response to your remark that he should have said something sooner if he meant it. You were demonstrated to be wrong on that issue. You can divert your point now if you'd like (like BL and kevin are going for), but the fact is, he held this position before this week.

It's a very large muscle and can absorb more volume and take a longer needle than smaller muscles like the deltoid or tricep.

Then why is BL acting so dense about it?

Because he uses it for something other than injections.


[Rimshot]

"Actually, I don't believe that's correct. Pettitte admitted using HGH, but did not even mention McNamee, let alone admit getting shots from him."

It happened in the same year though. A'int that a coincidence...

Pettiitte admitted it, fine. But does anybody believe that that he only injected twice on a Tuesday, and then never touched the stuff again. Its like finding $10,000 worth of HGH receipts in Matt Williams name and believing his excuse that he tried it once and didn't like the way it made him feel.
These people giving admission come right out and lie to your face, and witch hunters are ok with that .. andy Pettitte is no different and it is odd..


Forgive me, but what the hell are you talking about? Pettitte's words were doubted by "the witch hunters".

interesting..
Because a I read this thread, all i see is Pettitte is the bastion of truth, and that his words implicate Rocket.
So you are telling me that the witch hunters have no problems believing a guy that they feel openly lied to their faces, both he and McNamee, waffled back and forth on the subject .. but don't believe Roger who has steadfastly denied usage from the get go. Never wavering. Never parsing words...

These hunters are an odd sort aren't they.

Chris, show me where he held this position prior to this week.

CBS has a short clip of the interview up on its website. Link.

Dylan's mom must use steroids.

Chris, show me where he held this position prior to this week.

Asked and answered. In 2005, Clemens said he was getting B-12 shots. See the quote in post 111.

The quote in 111 was from his agent, telling us what he says Clemens said. It's not even a quote from Clemens.

I think I'm one of the few people who is willing to give Clemens the benefit of the doubt, after last night's 60 Minutes.

This morning, the local CBS affiliate reported that he's suing McNamee. OK, let's see what comes of it.