Please. Cubs fans will love Milton. Management might get tired of him, but no one plays with as much fire as he does.

I do know that Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker said they got an earful and eyeful of racist comments while calling Wrigley Field home

Eyeful?

Fans were wearing t-shirts that said "I hate black people"?

Fans were wearing t-shirts that said "I hate black people"?

Naw, it was "All Niekros Look Alike"

(Shout out to the other thread that referenced this story. Hank Greenwald was awesome.)

So, how come such a great, great, great hitter is available? Because he’s fragile physically and mentally. I mean, we’re talking about a guy who tore a knee ligament while trying to get at an umpire.

Well, how come Mark Teixeira and C.C. Sabathia were available?

I do know that Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker said they got an earful and eyeful of racist comments while calling Wrigley Field home


So Bradley should just retire because Chicagoans are racist? Hendry should stop signing black men? I don't really get what he's trying to say here.

First impressions are everything in Chicago. Fukudome homered on Opening Day and made the ASG thanks to Cubs fans.

If Milton tears it up early all will be fine.

He gets hurt or is hitting .164 come May 5th, well, could be potential for a verbal encounter between Bradley and two fans as he trots out to right field.

So Bradley should just retire because Chicagoans are racist? Hendry should stop signing black men? I don't really get what he's trying to say here.

He's saying that combining a volatile personality with a crowd supposedly known for picking on one of the things that makes that personality volatile is probably a recipe for disaster, or at least unnecessary conflict. Much like Branch Rickey considered personality when he signed Jackie Robinson, he's saying that Hendry does need to consider personality (in addition to talent) when signing players to play in Chicago.

I'm of the opinion that Bradley's anger issues are probably a bit overstated (especially since it was the ump who was suspended in that incident, and Kent seems to have a pretty solid reputation as a bit of a jerk), but it's probably reasonable to say that not every player is suited for every city, for various reasons.

but no one plays with as much fire as he does.

For 55% of a season.

and made the ASG thanks to Cubs fans

I think Japanese baseball fans had a bigger role in that but your general point still stands.

The umpire incident is a canard. The only reason the same thing hasn't happened to Lou "the great leader of men" Pinella is that nobody ever bothered to tackle him. Which is not to say there aren't legitimate concerns with bringing Bradley over.

I also have no doubt the ridiculous treatment given Latroy Hawkins was a factor in his performance.

It's this racism that explains the scapegoating of Todd Hundley by Cub fans.

I don't really recall Bradley calling Kent a racist, although I will admit that it combines two things--someone accusing Jeff Kent of being a prick and Milton Bradley losing his ####--that happen frequently enough that I could miss a few and never know it.

Bradley-Kent flap.

Yup, Harvey is absolutely right.

Mitch Williams walking the bases loaded, then striking out the side, Tuffy Rhodes 3 opening day bombs, hell -- go back to Willie Smith's '69 opening day heroics (and no doubt, further).

I suppose it's true to some extent everywhere, but you can feel it even more so in Chicago. A good opening day, a good April to start your Cubs career -- it buys you a season, at minimum.

For the sake of my 2009 baseball enjoyment, Milton Bradley, and the Cubs - I sure do hope he goes 4 for 4 and drives in the game winner with a bottom of the 9th granny.

Bradley once accused then-teammate Jeff Kent of being racist. I don’t know what’s true there or why Bradley felt that way, but I do know that Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker said they got an earful and eyeful of racist comments while calling Wrigley Field home.

We elected a black president. Racism is officially over!

I think Japanese baseball fans had a bigger role in that but your general point still stands.

The Japanese effect on ASG voting is minimal.

I don't really recall Bradley calling Kent a racist, although I will admit that it combines two things--someone accusing Jeff Kent of being a prick and Milton Bradley losing his ####--that happen frequently enough that I could miss a few and never know it.

Kent was just pissed that Bradley refused to wash his truck for him.

We elected a black president. Racism is officially over!

You joke, but the insinuation that baseball fans in the state that produced two of the nation's 3 (!) black senators since reconstruction (one of whom became the nation's first black president using Illinois as a springboard) are more racist than those elsewhere is interesting.

He's saying that combining a volatile personality with a crowd supposedly known for picking on one of the things that makes that personality volatile is probably a recipe for disaster, or at least unnecessary conflict.

Yes but Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker are not known for their volatile personalities. So it seems like it doesn't matter whether you're a nice black guy or a douchey black guy, Cubs fans will hurl racial epithets at you (according to the article). It stands to reason that it's racist Cubs fans who have the problem and not Milton Bradley, or other black players, or Jim Hendry.

I'm of the opinion that Bradley's anger issues are probably a bit overstated (especially since it was the ump who was suspended in that incident, and Kent seems to have a pretty solid reputation as a bit of a jerk).

I'd agree with you if those were the only two incidents in Milton's past, but they're clearly not. He seems to be a thoughtful guy who his teammates genuinely like, though one who has had a problem keeping his temper under control.

Yes but Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker are not known for their volatile personalities. So it seems like it doesn't matter whether you're a nice black guy or a douchey black guy, Cubs fans will hurl racial epithets at you (according to the article).

Yeah, but those guys mostly complained about it off the field, or when they were on their way out of Chicago. I'm guessing that the writer suspects that a less laid-back personality like Bradley wouldn't be inclined to ignore these racial taunts during a game (nor should he ignore it - ####### behavior like racial slurs shouldn't be tolerated in any forum), and it could result in a nasty incident.

You joke, but the insinuation that baseball fans in the state ..... are more racist than those elsewhere is interesting.

I don't think Wrigley denizens are particularly racist, but if they turn on a player, they will find a lowbrow hurtful thing to attack said player about. So with Bradley it may seem like a matter of time.

That would be reasonable if those were the only two incidents in Milton's past, but they're clearly not.

Hey, I'm not saying that he's an angel, but that a lot of his conflicts seem to be with equally abrasive personalities - it's just hard to tell which incidents are started by him, and which incidents are just the result of him reacting badly. From the way he's often covered, it just seems like a lot of the sports media is too willing to blame things on him by default.

So it seems like it doesn't matter whether you're a nice black guy or a douchey black guy, Cubs fans will hurl racial epithets at you.

I'm sure it "seems like" that if you cherrypick your data points to ignore the black Cubs who were wildly popular (Sosa, Lee, not to mention legends like Banks, Williams and Jenkins...Lofton was popular during the short time he was here, Glenallen Hill was a fan favorite), and the white Cubs who were unpopular (Todd Hundley, Shawn Estes, Will Ohman, Jeff Fassero, post-'98 Rod Beck). And that's ignoring your suggestion that racial ephithets are S.O.P. for "Cubs fans" as a group.

From the way he's often covered, it just seems like a lot of the sports media is too willing to blame things on him by default.

I'm tired of these players like Milton Bradley and Albert Belle provoking the media into turning everything into a blamefest.

The Japanese effect on ASG voting is minimal.

Reflecting back on it, Cubs players all did very well in the ASG voting last season. Lee finished third, DeRosa was second, Ramirez was second, Theriot was fourth, Soto was first and Soriano/Fukudome were second and third among outfielders. For those of you counting at home, the Cubs did no worse than fourth at any position.

"in the state that produced two of the nation's 3 (!) black senators since reconstruction"

Huh. I was going to jump all over you for buying into the Burris charade, but I totally forgot about Carol Moseley Braun.

but I totally forgot about Carol Moseley Braun.

We'd all like to forget her...

Jacques Jones got doubled off second base three times in the same month. I think they were all on fly balls to left. That is what made the fans turn on him. I heard a lot of booing of Jones, much of it coming from me. If there were any racial comments, they were very few, and likely exaggerated by Baker, and his blame everyone else mindset. Bradley will be fine in Chicago. Staying healthy will be far more of an issue than dealing with the fans.

SoSH U at work Posted: January 07, 2009 at 11:24 AM (#3045303)

I'm of the opinion that Bradley's anger issues are probably a bit overstated (especially since it was the ump who was suspended in that incident, and Kent seems to have a pretty solid reputation as a bit of a jerk).

I'd agree with you if those were the only two incidents in Milton's past, but they're clearly not. He seems to be a thoughtful guy who his teammates genuinely like, though one who has had a problem keeping his temper under control.

- i think you are right SOSH. milton is a nice guy and a likeable guy but unfortunately, he is one of those guys who if he gets, uh, provoked, has a hair trigger temper. (reminds me of my brother) and unfortunately, this amkes it more likely that people gonna poke him just to see him lose it

there is absolutely NO question that bradley was provoked by the ump (and i sure would like to know why that ump wasn't punished a LOT more severely than he was) and jeff kent is a HUGE jerk - and jerk is understatement. kent makes a point of treating other players like shtt if he can get away with it and if he can't because they are veteran/better then he does what he did with reilly/barry lamar. he couldn't do it in houston because baggy/biggio are/were GAWD with the houston media and roger clemens (yeah, that terrible evil human) wouldn't let him harrass and intimidate the young guys like he wanted to do. so he sat off in the corner of the clubhouse and refused to talk to anyone.

anyway, i think that milton, um, mistook jeff kent's general shtting on anyone he possibly can to be racism because him and kemp and the other rooks were black. but he woulda been just as assholish if they white

milton is a REALLY good ballplayer and i agree with others that if he start off strong and he will be fine for at LEAST a year

i'm sorry to see him sign with the cubs. i was hoping he'd go be a DH somewheres where he can't hurt my team

i think you are right SOSH. milton is a nice guy and a likeable guy but unfortunately, he is one of those guys who if he gets, uh, provoked, has a hair trigger temper. (reminds me of my brother) and unfortunately, this amkes it more likely that people gonna poke him just to see him lose it

I read somewhere that he put himself in anger management for a while, understanding that he was holding himself back by blowing up all the time. From what I've read, he seems like a really smart guy who has a growing sense of self-awareness, and he's a hell of a ballplayer when healthy.

That said, Bradley needs to be coached a certain way. Ron Washington was almost the perfect manager for him - quiet, laid-back, but authoritative. Bradley doesn't seem to take to military-type coaching.

But the real issue isn't Bradley's attitude - it's his health. The Cubs are going to need him to be healthy - that's not a really strong outfield if he's not in it.

So it seems like it doesn't matter whether you're a nice black guy or a douchey black guy, Cubs fans will hurl racial epithets at you (according to the article).

Fixed. You misquoted me there.

I'm sure it "seems like" that if you cherrypick your data points to ignore the black Cubs who were wildly popular (Sosa, Lee, not to mention legends like Banks, Williams and Jenkins...Lofton was popular during the short time he was here, Glenallen Hill was a fan favorite), and the white Cubs who were unpopular (Todd Hundley, Shawn Estes, Will Ohman, Jeff Fassero, post-'98 Rod Beck). And that's ignoring your suggestion that racial ephithets are S.O.P. for "Cubs fans" as a group.

That isn't my suggestion. I was just trying to follow the author's reasoning. I've never even been to Wrigley Field.

That said, Bradley needs to be coached a certain way. Ron Washington was almost the perfect manager for him - quiet, laid-back, but authoritative. Bradley doesn't seem to take to military-type coaching.

You'd have a problem with authority, too, if your parents named you "Milton Bradley."

He also wanted to beat up Beane.

<i>Jacques Jones got doubled off second base three times in the same month. I think they were all on fly balls to left. That is what made the fans turn on him. I heard a lot of booing of Jones, much of it coming from me.<i>

Jacques also started something like 0 for 20. He was doomed from the start.

Wrigley fans are just closer and therefore louder and more involved with the game than anywhere else, with the possible exception of Fenway. If they hate you then you'll hear more of it, if they love you then you'll hear more of it too. It's just a matter of architecture (+ beer
). I'm pretty certain that if there are a lot of racist comments heard it's because the 1% of the crowd that are racist ######## are just more audible than the 1% of the crowd that are racist ######## in US Cellular or New York or Pittsburgh or wherever.

He also attempted to "confront" Royals' announcer Ryan Lefebvre last year. He made it out of the club house and up to the third floor press box, where he was eventually coralled by Rangers officials before he got to Lefebvre.

Whether or not Lefebvre's comments were out of line (some say they were), I would think this a clear indication that MB still has a few issues left regarding anger management.

It's a pretty well-documented story, but I was always curious if Bradley actually heard the comments, or if someone in the Rangers organization told him about the comments.

I was watching at the time and didn't think the comments were that out of line given Bradley's past.

Bradley should just shorten his first name to 'Milt', change his last name to 'Pappas' -- then, he could even keep complaining about umpires being out to get him and he'd already have ready-made Chicago acceptance (OK... at least from older Cubs fans).

Wrigley fans are just closer and therefore louder and more involved with the game than anywhere else, with the possible exception of Fenway. If they hate you then you'll hear more of it, if they love you then you'll hear more of it too. It's just a matter of architecture (+ beer
). I'm pretty certain that if there are a lot of racist comments heard it's because the 1% of the crowd that are racist ######## are just more audible than the 1% of the crowd that are racist ######## in US Cellular or New York or Pittsburgh or wherever.

After he left, Hawkins said that Cub fans were leaving messages filled with racial epithets on his answering machine.

It's silly to paint the whole group with such a brush but the Cubs are in the midwest where you find your handful of crazies who are probably a bit more likely to choose that particular, um, language to express distaste with a person of Hawkins's background.

Where I live in the southern midwest I heard more than a handful of that language directed toward our president elect - even though my county tilted in his favor at the polls.

I used to shop at the same grocery store as Milton Bradley and, according to one of the cashiers, he was kind of an ass. The fact that he always waited until he was at the front of the line to take out his credit card means this is going to be a disastrous signing.

He also wanted to beat up Beane.

Beane had it coming.

Beane had it coming.

Because he wrote that book.

The fact that he always waited until he was at the front of the line to take out his credit card means this is going to be a disastrous signing.

I heard that he waits until he's at the front of the line to take out his checkbook. That's an offense punishable by death where I come from.

I heard that he waits until he's at the front of the line to take out his checkbook. That's an offense punishable by death where I come from.

Taking out a checkbook is punishable by death from when I come from.

You'd have a problem with authority, too, if your parents named you "Milton Bradley."

Milton Bradley's got game.

We'd all like to forget her...

Fair enough, but it simply goes to show that in Illinois, we elect scumbags and incompetents of all races.

I heard that he waits until he's at the front of the line to take out his checkbook. That's an offense punishable by death where I come from.

And he's got lots of coupons. Most of them are expired, but he's going to argue for the $0.25 anyway.

And he's got lots of coupons. Most of them are expired, but he's going to argue for the $0.25 anyway.

Where I live in Manhattan this happens all the time. My favorite are the little old ladies who want a written rain check when the store runs out of something they advertised in a flyer.

Where I live in the southern midwest I heard more than a handful of that language directed toward our president elect - even though my county tilted in his favor at the polls.

If you really want to be treated to unbound racism, you can hop over to Martinsville.

In Great Neck, I once saw a bitter argument between a cashier and someone who had a coupon for a free pound of something. The pound of something cost 90 cents, so the coupon rang up as 90 cents off. The customer complained that the item was marked at a dollar per pound, so she should have gotten a dollar off. But you got it FREE, said the cashier. But I should get a DOLLAR OFF, said the customer.

And he's got lots of coupons. Most of them are expired, but he's going to argue for the $0.25 anyway.

Plus, he has to get rid of all the pennies that have accumulated in his change pouch.

Best Regards

John

I used to shop at the same grocery store as Milton Bradley and, according to one of the cashiers, he was kind of an ass.

I saw an interview with him once where he was talking about his image as a difficult player and it struck me that he was being way too sensitive. Yes it must suck to get scrutinized and publicly slandered, but there was a total absence of grace or acceptance or good humor in his speech. He really seemed like it kept him awake at night. I think you need to be a little more thick-skinned to do what he does.

Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: January 07, 2009 at 01:43 PM (#3045509)

He also wanted to beat up Beane.

Beane had it coming.

- ohhhhhhh

he had it comin
he had it comin
he only had himself to blameeeeee
if youda been there
if youda seen it
you woulda done him just the sameeeeeee

There is a local woman who is a coupon fanatic and on multiple occasions has managed to finish with the grocery store OWING her money. It's bizarre. She is branded like cheaters in Vegas so that when she enters a grocery store or other location that honors coupons they have the manager ready to sit by the register for the inevitable arguments.

What's surprising is that she has not generated a band of followers as she DOES save a LOT of money over the year(s).

Instead, she is regarded as a loon.........

There is a local woman who is a coupon fanatic and on multiple occasions has managed to finish with the grocery store OWING her money.

I heard a story on the radio about a woman who did that. For the story, she walked into a Walgreen's and got about $50.00 worth of stuff for less than $10.00. She said she ended up being owed money a lot.

The trick was to not be picky at all about what she shopped for - she let the coupons dictate what she got.

Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 07, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3045637)

There is a local woman who is a coupon fanatic and on multiple occasions has managed to finish with the grocery store OWING her money. It's bizarre.

how could a coupon be worth MORE than the item? i haven't never seen any coupon like that

i guess she the kind of woman who LIKES to get into screaming arguments with people. it is bad enough when you HAVE to do it every now and then. but it sound like she does it for a living

how could a coupon be worth MORE than the item?

If something's $1.00 off, and it's on sale for less than a dollar...

how could a coupon be worth MORE than the item? i haven't never seen any coupon like that

There are a lot of weird combined deals. In some cases, coupons can stack, or work in conjunction with additional in-store deals (discounts or 2 for 1 deals), or all sorts of other strange things. There was an article on MSNBC a while ago about people who work this system, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Harris Teeter or one of those southern-based stores has double and triple coupon days. That has caught on elsewhere. You toss in other sales events and if you buy per the coupons the math gets pretty crazy, pretty quick.

What's surprising is that she has not generated a band of followers as she DOES save a LOT of money over the year(s).

For most people, the time they'd spend becoming a coupon ninja is worth a lot more than the money they'd save.

You joke, but the insinuation that baseball fans in the state that produced two of the nation's 3 (!) black senators since reconstruction (one of whom became the nation's first black president using Illinois as a springboard) are more racist than those elsewhere is interesting.

But we're not talking about baseball fans. We're talking about Cubs fans.

For most people, the time they'd spend becoming a coupon ninja is worth a lot more than the money they'd save.

Plus do people really want to be one of "those coupon people"?

"Taking out a checkbook is punishable by death from when I come from."

Say hi to John Titor for me.

Yeah, Teeter does, among others (I thought it was more of a midwest thing, than southern...). Pretty good chain, by the way, but their prices are lousy if the item isn't on sale. I ought to go back to clipping - decent $/hr return (particularly given that you do it with your minutes that otherwise have a lower marginal value), but who buys papers anymore?

The fact that he always waited until he was at the front of the line to take out his credit card means this is going to be a disastrous signing.

I actually don't understand this. Do you mean until after everything was rung up - it does take time to scan, after all.

Yeah, Teeter does, among others (I thought it was more of a midwest thing, than southern...). Pretty good chain, by the way, but their prices are lousy if the item isn't on sale. I ought to go back to clipping - decent $/hr return (particularly given that you do it with your minutes that otherwise have a lower marginal value), but who buys papers anymore?

I get it, for commute reading, and it pays for itself with the coupon inserts. I collect and use coupons, typically between that and store sales I get 40% off trips to the main grocery stores, which is pretty good since half of my bill is usually meat & produce, which doesn't have coupons (I'd love it if they had "get $1 off two bell peppers" but alas).

Giant, which is close, doubles anything up to 50 cents. Harris Teeter, which was close to my old place, doubled up to a dollar. Both places have fairly lousy regular prices but excellent sale prices. However, I'm now shopping for food almost exclusively at the local chain organic market, out of principle (EDIT: the main principle is locally grown and processed food, not so much that it's organic, but the same places tend to cater to both), which has limited coupon savings and is even more pricey, but not as pricey as the corporate evil of the organic world, Whole Foods. I still clip coupons though, and they go in a file folder, so anytime I need something from Giant (usually not food, but things like paper towels, toothpaste, etc, or anything after 9 pm, I always get a nice discount). And the actual cutting is actually kind of calming on a lazy weekend morning.

Finding coupons is work, though.

If I have the energy to play the coupon game, then I have the energy to do something to better myself as a person, like read a book on a topic about which I ought to know more. (Time wasted on the internet does not count, as that is generally either a small amount of time or time when I am not up to doing anything more difficult, such as when I have a headache.)

Sure, I lose some money by not using coupons, but I'll gladly pay a bit more for groceries if it means using free time to further my education. (Qualifying exams are coming up....)

Basically, I'd rather "spend" the money I'd otherwise save on coupons on free time to develop into what I hope will be a better person. Good motivation to do this is to look at the person I was five to ten years ago and shudder.



I tend to like Milton Bradley more the more I hear about him, except for that bit about him playing for the Cubs.

The fact that he always waited until he was at the front of the line to take out his credit card means this is going to be a disastrous signing.
------------------
I actually don't understand this. Do you mean until after everything was rung up - it does take time to scan, after all.

I don't understand it either. Is he supposed to take out his credit card before he gets to the front of the line, and just stand there holding it for 5 minutes? Does he keep it locked in a safe that requires several keys to open?

Hendry feels like a nut, fans won't

So Hendry can have an Almond Joy and the fans can content themselves with some Mounds. What's the problem here?

milton is a nice guy and a likeable guy

That's a funny thing to say about a guy who strangled and punched his pregnant wife. (Allegedly. Sorry, but having someone call the cops on him because he beat up his wife puts him into the "not nice guy" column.)