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HGH = Holy Ghost Hormone
easy--just get some doctor to testify that you have an alcohol deficiency in your system
No, really, I mean it. Several doctors, team knowledge, multiple tests, very reasonable (and serious) medical explanation.
easy--just get some doctor to testify that you have an alcohol deficiency in your system
Specifically, a deficiency of shitty scotch.
Ironically, one thing that would increase the resemblance is if he had a bigger head. So maybe it was all a plot to get with Patricia Heaton.
I don't know about hGH, but MLB does give medical exemptions for amphetamine like stimulants. I beleive Derek Lowe's use of something like that came out a year or so ago.
If you do a Google image search of Paul Byrd, pictures of John C. Reilly and Kelsey Grammer also appear.
This sounds completely above-board. No, really, I mean it. Several doctors, team knowledge, multiple tests, very reasonable (and serious) medical explanation.
Yet, it happened when he was rehabbing a potentially career-ending injury....
Everything may be aboveboard here. But I have never been and will never be persuaded by "If I was cheating, why wouldn't I have been more circumspect?" excuses. Crime makes people stupid; it just does.
Byrd started taking growth hormone a year before he injured himself. He started taking the hormone because he has a tumor in his brain. Then he got injured. He continued taking the hormone becuase, again, his doctors thought it was a good idea because he has a tumor in his brain. This was vetted with multiple doctors and multiple tests, his team knew about it the whole time, and signed off on his care.
Drink some antifreeze.
Except Byrd is probably not telling the whole truth. According to sources who have actually seen what Byrd took, how much he took, who prescribed the drugs, and where he got them from, that Byrd is being decietful or at least not telling the whole story.
Link?
Seconded. Sounds like you are pulling this one out of your ass.
Nonsense. There are dozens of other things that will derail the Indians tonight.
Oh really? Care to make a wager on that?
As much as I feel that performance enhancers (just steroids, really) have hurt the game I do think that ballplayer's privacy has to take precedence over our "right to know."
I'd like the see the Chronicle lose MLB media passes because of this.
It is in the original SF Chronicle story though.
Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show.
Did they? It looks to me like the Chronicle pried into somebodies financial records. Records that were grabbed by the government in an ongoing investigation.
It was massages, not HGH.
And some key excerpts:
So, totally legit, except he got the scrips from a dentist? And did he use these scrips to get his HGH from a pharmacy? No, he mail ordered the stuff from another totally shady operation:
There's some references. Of course they don't match the story told by Paul Byrd, who is a Chrsitian, so they must not be legit.
Darnit you are costing me a bet. But it is in the TimesUnion article as well, you simply have to turn to the next page of the article, well that and actually read it since it also says in I believe the second paragraph that the souce believes that the level of usage by Byrd is consistent with personal use. Then read a little further and you discover that Byrd got all of his drugs from the wellness center that is being investigated for shipping out drugs left and right.
Are we going to care if he was caught using Tylenol next?
McCoy, I don't understand how we would wager; I read the articles, after your comment, and didn't see what you were referring to in at least half of that post. I did note the dentist thing, and the fact that HGH was delivered from a place that has come into legal trouble. But the Times Union article also says that the amounts shipped were consistent with personal use, which indicates to me that there was nothing unusual about "how much" he took. There was no indication that the drugs themselves were untoward.
And to different news organizations, too. The NY Daily News gets one scoop, the Chronicle gets the other. Hmmmm....
Darnit you are costing me a bet. But it is in the TimesUnion article as well, you simply have to turn to the next page of the article, well that and actually read it since it also says in I believe the second paragraph that the souce believes that the level of usage by Byrd is consistent with personal use. Then read a little further and you discover that Byrd got all of his drugs from the wellness center that is being investigated for shipping out drugs left and right.
Doesn't the fact that Paul Byrd had already written about his HGH use in a book that he's hoping to get published hurt the claims that he got caught here? It's hard to be more open about something than trying ot publish it in a book.
Besides, if a student cheats on a test by looking at the paper of a student who is also unprepared/dim, he's still cheating, even if his stolen answers are all wrong. The point is that he went outside the accepted bounds for completing the exam.
They also don't contradict his story.
The only thing he may have to explain here is the dentist thing. But even the mention of "two prescriptions" is unclear; does that mean that two drugs were prescribed indefinitely, or that a dentist wrote the prescription on two occasions?
Damage control. He could see the writing on the wall.
He took HgH and he ordered 1000 vials of it over I believe 13 purchases with two of them coming on orders from a dentist.
Doesn't the fact that Paul Byrd had already written about his HGH use in a book that he's hoping to get published hurt the claims that he got caught here? It's hard to be more open about something than trying ot publish it in a book.
So if OJ writes that he went over to Nicole's house to say hello and then left he is off the hook as well? I would like to hear Byrd's explanation on why a dentist was writing him up for HgH before deciding how honest Mr. Byrd is here.
So? Is that "too much"?
Isn't is also notable that he stopped receiving shipments before MLB banned HGH? Sure, it was one week before, so I'd assume the shipment was enough for him to keep taking it past the ban, if he so chose; but given that it was prescribed for an actual medical condition, I don't see where that violates the spirit of the rules (I'm ignorant of the letter of the rule in this case). Any usage before that, of course, was not in violation of the rules, and as such isn't newsworthy, so far as I can tell.
As for the "too much" part again the source said the amount was consitent with an athletes personal use.
13 purchases of 1000 vials comes out to 77 vials per purchase. Now somehow I doubt you inject 50 vials into your thigh at a time, so yeah I'm thinking Mr. Byrd most definitely was using Hgh after the ban considering that he in all probability bought a large shipment of it one week before the ban.
How are they supposed to get his medical history? Go ask his doctor? I believe the story published was that Byrd bought these drugs from a company under investigation.
This makes his use more suspicious, not less.
They contacted Byrd's agent and the Indians seeking explanation, and got a "no comment."
My guess: Byrd and his agent must have decided to shop for a friendlier outlet for his explanation, and went to Rosenthal.
I should add that "friendlier" also includes less well-informed about the particulars of the Florida case. A reporter shown the documents about Byrd's purchases might have poked holes in his story - some of the inconsistencies highlighted in this thread - and asked uncomfortable followup questions.
Yeah, you really nailed me with that dead on OJ analogy. Isn't the point that Byrd shouldn't have any obligation to answer these questions. This is his personal business.
don't none of us know how much he is supposed to take (on the doctor - i mean the REAL doctor's order) or how many doses in a vial. AND the other thing is that the stuff might could have been cheaper to get in bulk and cheaper at the online pharmacy
my husband gets his medicine in a 3 month supply. AND if it was something we had to pay for 100% no insurance for it AND we could get a year long supply at a time from an online pharmacy well then we would do it too.
so all yall need to think about that too
and we don't know nothing about the tumor neither. what if it went away or he got more tests saying he shouldn't take no more medicine?
- and there sure are a whole lot of people around here can't wait to spit on any person who got the nerve to admit he is christian. i sure don't hear nobody bytching about guys who say they are jewish. and if byrd had said he is hindu/buddhist/believed in some Native American religion we wouldn't be hearing about how byrd's religion got anything to do with anything
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know I was supposed to take a couple of days off and formulate and air tight scenario that completely destroyed your flawed view.
Isn't the point that Byrd shouldn't have any obligation to answer these questions. This is his personal business.
Point of what? Byrd wrote a book on this issue, Byrd has now made statements on this issue, and Byrd might very well have broken the law. YOu mean to tell me we can't possibly question a man who made or was going to make his usage public?
Does he also get his medicine from his dentist? I mean I know that is who I turn to when I got a tumor at the base of my brain.
I'm saying that the media shouldn't be prying into what medicine he took or didn't take and then publishing that information.
Sure, Byrd might be completely full of it but *still* he should be given his privacy.
Okay so at what point doesn't he get his privacy? When breaks the law?
my husband has taken the exact same medicine for YEARS. so if he needed a script, AND a dentist would write it, sure. what exactly is wrong with that? it is not like the dentist is diagnosing him. he don't need only his own allergist to write the prescription.
and maybe the dentist is who writes the scripts for the online pharmacy, i don't know
it would be different if the dentist was the FIRST one to write a prescription or if he didn't go to a real doctor and get diagnosed first
but i don't know in what order anything happened and i sure don't trust the paper to be damm sure they got everything right and in the right order before writing the story. after all, so what if they are wrong? can't byrd do nothing about it and you best believe they know it good and well
- and exactly WHAT law did byrd break?
The use of restricted drugs are well restricted. Using them improperly is against the law.
Byrd's name came up because he bought his drugs from BALCO east and the government feels that this place is distributing drugs illegally. Hence they subpoenaed their records and poofda Byrds name came up.
PS. I did some digging and it turns out that dentists often are the first ones to detect the presence of tumors in the pituitary gland. I have no idea if they are involved in the treatment of it other then that to say "hey buddy get yourself to a doctor" but the dentist might not be as fishy as originally thought.
are you saying that the PATIENT is committing a crime or the doctor who is prescribing them is committing a crime
but i seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that prescribing HGH for anti aging (for example) is really a crime. there are anti-aging clinics all over the place. there is one right here in houston that advertises and i don't see the police lining up to arrest all the doctors and patients.
I know it is a crime on the part of the doctor to prescribe a drug for illegal reasons. I'm not totally sure on what risks the patient runs if he knowingly acquires drugs for illegal usage.
And yet you asserted just 3 posts ago that it was a crime. Byrd didn't commit a crime here. He *may* have violated MLB's rules.
So if the doctor breaks the law while prescribing Byrd a drug that Byrd is taking for unlawful reasons we should ignore all that? I don't know for sure the exact law on patient usage of drugs but my opinion based on what I know is that a patient who knowingly lies to obtain a drug and then uses it in ways not cleared for then yes they are breaking the law. Do I know that with absolute certainty? No.
i don't know exactly what you mean by "illegal" reasons. you mean something beside malpractice i guess (yeah i know about doctors dealing ritalin and oxycontin but you must mean something different)
i know for absolute certain that doctors prescribe drugs ALL the time for stuff they FDA does not say it is for.
like my niece she had lots of hard wax in her ears and the pediatrician prescribed doxusate drops. which is supposed to be used for constipation. but it softens hard wax too. so you really think the pediatrician (and my brother) should go to prison and i guess my niece get put in juvy???
cmon dude
is this true for ANY prescription drug or just controlled substances?
yes i know. you are right (see, a female actually CAN say it and mean it. it happens. it really does)
i'll go to the lounge right now.
Don't know. My point is that even if the doctor shouldn't have been giving the prescription (and as you pointed out, doctor's are allowed to give out prescriptions for drugs to treat conditions that the drugs are not specifically approved for) Byrd committed no crime unless you misrepresented his condition to the doctor and I doubt he did that.
Spare me. I somehow don't believe there would be this level of "outrage" had he been caught with Cuban Cigars or more than one bottle of duty free Bombay Sapphire.
I take Claritan daily for allergies. It is now OTC, but a few years ago it wasn't. Before that, it used to be a frickin' nightmare to get refills, as our family GPs kept moving out of the area. Every time I needed a refill, I would have to get an initial evaluation from a new doc, costing about $150. I wish I had been clever enough to get my dentist to provide the scrip.
Not commenting on the article, but the innocuous prescription refill racket is a great one for doctors. Though I don't blame them, they're in a particularly cuckoo industry.
This sure smells fishy.
His head grew to an acceptable size?
He says he stopped taking it because baseball made it against the rules to take it.
I also love the sourcing on the dentist bit.
If Byrd has a legit reason for taking HGH, then why did he stop taking it in 2005?
This sure smells fishy.
- maybe his doctor told him to stop. maybe it made the tumor worse. maybe he DID get a TUE. we don't KNOW
If he had a legit medical reason for taking it, them MLB would have allowed him to continue taking it.
maybe his doctor told him to stop. maybe it made the tumor worse. maybe he DID get a TUE. we don't KNOW
His last order is one week before MLB bans it and you think that it is just a coincidence?
Didn't someone (Mike Lowell?) get denied permission to use steroids for post-cancer treatment or something?
You may see the police at these places soon. The FDA is cracking down on the anti-aging industry in a big way. The legitimacy of the adult hGH deficiency diagnosis is what's at issue. The simple fact that Byrd got his supply from the same source as Ankiel makes it suspicious. I won't convict him on that alone, but I also won't assume that his use must be legitimate.
BTW, Jason Giambi had a pituitary tumor. I don't know the specifics of how it was treated, but it's quite possible that he now has a real medical need to take prescription hGH (and other pituitary hormones). I wonder how kevin feels about that.
the innocuous prescription refill racket is a great one for doctors
What is this supposed to mean, exactly? Hardly a day goes by that my wife doesn't have at least one patient she's never seen previously come in demanding prescriptions for a half a dozen drugs that they've supposedly been taking for years. They don't want anything else, just the scrips (usually with at least one real doozy in the bunch), and they certainly don't want to pay her for a new patient evaluation. Are you suggesting that doctors should accommodate these sorts of people? Are you suggesting that doctors should have some magical power that allows them to readily distinguish these folks from Misirlou?
He's probably talking about the doctors that charge money to write scrips without seeing the patients. Illegally. Because of greed.
It's pretty clear that steroid apologists are incapable of reading. The comments above reads like talking points prepared for the mentally unfit to congratulate themselves on what defenders of freedom they are.
"My team, my coaches and MLB have known that I have had a pituitary gland issue for some time..." says Byrd.
Major League baseball issued a statement: "We will investigate the allegations concerning Paul Byrd as we have players implicated in previous similar reports..."
So, MLB says they will "investigate" even though Byrd says they know about it already?
I will say from experience, thankfully not my own personally, that those places are a haven for drug abusers. The abusers know it, the doctors know it. It's disgusting. But it keeps the money coming in.
Hardly a day goes by that my wife doesn't have at least one patient she's never seen previously come in demanding prescriptions for a half a dozen drugs that they've supposedly been taking for years. They don't want anything else, just the scrips (usually with at least one real doozy in the bunch), and they certainly don't want to pay her for a new patient evaluation. Are you suggesting that doctors should accommodate these sorts of people? Are you suggesting that doctors should have some magical power that allows them to readily distinguish these folks from Misirlou?
Definitely not - the opposite. On a side note, I worked in a clinical research center for a while where the head doctor was still practicing. He said that the worst patients were other doctors because they self-diagnos and self-prescribe, and no one can tell them no.
He didn't need any reason before 2005, did he?
So, MLB says they will "investigate" even though Byrd says they know about it already?
He said that MLB knew about the pituitary gland issue, not about the HGH usage that happened before MLB banned it.
Since Mr. Byrd and his club, the Cleveland Indians, are currently active in post-season play, we will interview Mr. Byrd prior to the start of the World Series should the Cleveland club advance.
So, if Cleveland doesn't advance, Byrd won't be interviewed prior to the World Series?
It certainly seems to be used in at least some cases. This may help explain some of what was going on. It looks from this as if hGH is used to treat the symptoms of at least some pituitary tumors, but that this is a very new approach. It is certainly possible that this is why Byrd was taking hGH, but that he got it from dodgy sources because it wasn't widely accepted. That could also explain why he stopped taking it in 2005, because this either wasn't a sufficiently accepted therapy for MLB to approve, or because Byrd recognized it as experimental and stopped doing it under the circumstances.
At this point, I'd say that the ball rests in the court of those who want to argue that he was cheating. If he actually does have a pituitary tumor, that seems the most likely reason for taking hGH.
A really cursory google search and no medical background whatsoever indicates that there are many different types of pituitary tumors. There are those that increase hormone production, those that decrease hormone production and apparently those that are caused by taking too much growth hormone. So without knowing more about the type of tumor it's hard to answer those questions.
I will say it seems possible that if the tumor was causing the gland to not release enough growth hormone, an HGH presciption would make sense.
Also this:
So the dentist things pops back up again.
I would still like to know if MLB pre-announced its banning of HGH. Did it say, on some previous day, "As of January 13, 2005, HGH is banned" or did it say "As of today, January 13, 2005, HGH is banned"?
Yes I understand that but if he didn't have a tumor until now the dentist part becomes shady. Then on top of that despite saying he has nothing to hide and did nothing wrong yada yada yada he is evasive about the very questions that would clear all this up.
A world class snooker player (Bill Werbeniuk) got a medical certificate which approved lager drinking. Allowed him to expense his beer. (Medical condition normally treated by beta blockers, but beta blockers are banned by snooker's governing body)
And being allowed to expense his beer was no small matter.
Quoting now:
"I'd down six to eight pints of lager before I started, then I'd have one pint a frame. Obviously, over the longer matches I'd get through quite a lot of lager but I managed to burn off alcohol very quickly."
What's cuckoo is that my daughter has to have an examination every spring with the same damned doctor to renew her Zantac prescription. She had hay fever three years ago, she had hay fever two years ago, she had hay fever last year, and guess what...she's gonna have hay fever again next spring. The doctor visits are nonsense at this point. So I'm stocking up in the hope that I'll have enough to not have to visit next spring. Maybe the refills are my doc's way of telling me I don't have to come in. I'd like to think so; she's a good egg.
What's cuckoo is that my daughter has to have an examination every spring with the same damned doctor to renew her Zantac prescription. She had hay fever three years ago, she had hay fever two years ago, she had hay fever last year, and guess what...she's gonna have hay fever again next spring. The doctor visits are nonsense at this point. So I'm stocking up in the hope that I'll have enough to not have to visit next spring. Maybe the refills are my doc's way of telling me I don't have to come in. I'd like to think so; she's a good egg.
I'm diabetic. Insulin can only be prescribed for one year. I'd like to think this is because someone thinks they're no the verge of a cure, but it's really to save money/screw patients. The ENTIRE medical/insurance industry is corrupt. Some less than others, but I don't give any of them a pass. The ones that aren't explicitly corrupt don't do enough to clean up the ones that are. Fu(kers, all of them.* Lawyers may be worse, but, if so, just by a nose.
* Clearly there are good doctors and nurses. I have two really good docs. They're both very open about their views of corruption in their profession and the silly rules and do as much as they can to skirt the silliest of the rules. But they say they're powerless. That is lots of powerless people in that profession.
SF Gate
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