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Idea supposedly is that he'd (likely) return to HOU next season and NYY wouldn't have to give up big prospects accordingly.
I hate the Yankees sometimes.
I hate the Yankees all the time, but some times I hate them with more of my conscious mind.
[edit:] and when he's not in the lineup, as now, he can't DH anyway.
I think they think he can catch at least some of the time, and when he does, it would be good to have a better bat in the line-up that what they have for DH's now.
I hope they get the guy who has been hitting .262/.435/.585/1.020 the last month, but I'm no so sure this is really that big of an upgrade.
If it's just til the end of the year, what the heck. But I'd like to see Montero take swings in Sept.
Doesn't Lisa have veto power over this?
- i would rather have vetoed that terrible roy-o trade
brett wallace my butt
but no, i am NOT cheerin for no yankees, not even with lance on the team
I don't know if I would want to be starting him out there, but I can easily see him filling the role Eric Hinske played last year - late-inning matchup guy.
"Article 19 of the Basic Agreement states that trades involving players with 10-and-5 rights cannot be announced until 24 hours after the player gives his consent to waive the no-trade provision that comes from those rights"
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/yankees_could_trade_for_berkman_zlUaTRh15sl6bUs1h6L2YI
Berkman had offseason knee surgery. He does not run anymore. The stolen bases are a function of baseball smarts, which is pretty impressive.
the article sez: "The 24-hour window is designed to give a player a period of reflection after his consent."
don't make much sense to me, but there it is.
Apparently the Astros are even paying $4M of the $7.5M left on Berkman's contract. Why the hell weren't the Rays all over this? They need him about 50x worse than the Yankees do.
and if he pays 4 mill, that is 3.5 mill he gets to keep
That worked well.
Cashman had it right the first time: Vasquez/AJ/Pettitte may just screw the whole damn thing up, so getting a solid starter is paramount. Unfortunately, all three are gone now.
Consider the messenger, but I don't think the Yankees helped themselves today.
Berkman: 386/486
Thames: 319/465
Miranda: 317/394
The player can change his mind. It's the entire point of the 24-hour period.
At this point of their careers? doubt it. fact: Berkman was acquired because the Yankee braintrust 1) didn't have faith 2) didn't give time, to Miranda. And what are we talking here, Miranda has had 61 AB's on the season. That's some serious impatience.
Yeah I kind of figured that after my initial reaction to the wording of "reflecting" on the decision.
I can't believe anyone would seriously object to getting Berkman because it means burying Juan freaking Miranda.
On the presumption that Lee was theirs. Which makes sense, in a way, but why would this team ignore Oswalt and Haren if they could help today while Lee may not help ever?
Speaking of which, reportedly the prospect going to Houston in the deal is Mark Melancon, who hasn't done much in his brief ML appearances and who hasn't been all that good in AAA this year, but who certainly didn't get anything near an honest shot from the team.
I'm asking because it kinda smells like poo-poo to me, in that he's certainly less "special" than CC was, and the NYY may had cost themselves a playoff spot by not making that acquisition. So what does "special case" mean? Is it to cover their desire to trade a most excellent DH prospect or more an indictment of the team's pitching? Or maybe that they are not at all sure that he's theirs.
If I were Epstein would I overpay for Lee? Damn straight I would.
Gotcha. So my problem, besides trolling, is that I don't have enough faith in AJ and Vasquez not collapsing in a playoff scenario. Fine, but I'd have issues relying on Buchholz and Dice, the same, so there's that.
Check out his kk:bb ratio.
consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
Bah: consistency. No, it's something else. The NYY were willing to forgo playoff baseball in '08 because they wouldn't trade prospects for CC (who they knew they'd get, and who they desperately needed at the time), yet they were willing to forgo their number one prospect+ for Lee (who they also know they'll get, but they don't especially need). It doesn't make sense. I'm really curious about this.
a couple of things could be at work. based on the reports about the lee trade, the yanks feel a lot better about their farm system these days than they did back then. secondly, it could be that since montero is basically blocked he is more expendable than the top prospects the indians were asking for in 2008.
Rays should just call up Dan Johnson and let him DH. He's been killing the ball all year in AAA.
It's kinda tough to give a guy much of a shot when he walks or hits every other batter he faces. His walks are through the roof in AAA this year too. I think he still has his stuff, so he still has potential, and I hope he turns it around and has a decent career for himself. But there's clearly something wrong with the kid, and I really can't say that I wish he'd pitched more innings for the Yankees the past two seasons.
So Lance Berkman is in "timeout"?
Haren's last year and a half haven't been worth trading for. Roy O != Lee and we don't even know if he'd come NY.
Haven't we been here before?
Still believe Lee/Haren/Oswalt would have been a meaningful upgrade, while Berkman is not, though. Given decent odds, I'd bet that Miranda would better Berkman, but that will never be proven so -- bah.
It's not that impressive, considering that every year they trade with teams who have the revenue-sharing incentive to keep trading with the Yankees. Not to mention that the players they get are eminently tradeable to the Yankees because only the Yankees are willing to pick up the whole salary to improve on the margins (which is exactly what getting Kearns, Lilly, and a backup 3B is doing).
So no, it's not impressive. Useful to the Yankees, sure. But most GMs could do the same with the same resources as Cashman has. Cashman is good in that he's not Dayton Moore or Bill Bavasi. Big whoop.
he packed his stuff and said goodbye to his teammates
and ed freaking wade is paying 4 million to the yankees to take berkman and give us back a really dreadful middle reliever
i just HATE ed wade and drayton EFF mclane
Welcome Home Miguel Cairo!!!!!!!!!
I should have left out Kearns--he's an example of bolstering the margins that any team might do. But you're nitpicking. If Ed Bleeping Wade is actually paying the Yanks $4M for Berkman, that means that the Yankees just spent $10.5M for a sometime DH and spot starter at first. When they had Posada at DH. Or Thames and Miranda. They're not relying on Berkman to do much other than that. Which is the definition of improving at the margins. No other team is willing to spend $10M on ONE PLAYER to improve so little. So Ed Wade had little competition. He could wait for someone to give him better prospects in exchange for the Astros picking up most of the salary. Which the Astros weren't willing to do because they're in sell mode. I'm sure Drayton drooled at the thought of saving $10M on a player who wasn't going to contribute to the next contending Astros team. And with the Yankees' payroll going up, the revenue-sharing checks go up, as well.
Note that I don't blame the Yankees for doing this. They do it because they're allowed to. I just don't think it's some great strokes of genius or savvy that allows Cashman to grab Berkman. Or Lilly, tomorrow. He can do it because his is the only team who desires to.
the yankees are spending only 3 mill on berkman - no option, no arb
ed bleeping wade could only get a crappy middle reliever like melancon and some aball guy for 4 MILLION?
If Berkman just maintains his performance this year he's a huge improvement over what the Yankees can expect from Miranda. DH'ing, playing half his games in NYS, and being further out from knee surgery makes me hopeful he will hit better than that, too.
Well, he could be injured, or maybe he didn't take well to being jerked around.
But I'll say I wish he'd gotten an ACTUAL chance to pitch for the Yankees last year.
When he had a .906 WHIP, 1.9 BB/9, 9.2 K/9 and 4.91 K/BB in SWB.
He was called up 3 times and sent down twice (last call up was after the 40 man expansion). The second time he was called up he went *18* days between appearances. Still, in his 4 outings after that break, he went 5.2 innings, allowed 2 hits, 1 walk, 5ks and lowered his ERA to 3.18.
His reward? A return trip to SWB.
I'm not sayin' he would have established himself as some sort of bullpen ace with more innings pitched at the ML level last year, but I am saying that I sure wish Tyler Clippard was pitching in our bullpen right now and I hope I don't find myself saying the same thing about Melancon a couple of seasons from now because Joey Joe Joe couldn't be bothered to find innings for him and the Yankees couldn't be bothered with patience.
True, but how would they know?
Obviously they don't think that, but they also didn't think that with Clippard, Coke, and Veras.
Then why did they let the more expensive (at the time) Damon and Matsui go?
Well, I feel dumb. I was taking the full salary Berkman is owed for 2010--while failing to remember that the season is half over, so the Yankees don't owe him the full season's worth of cash.
Perhaps they were/are going hard after Lee/Haren(now Lilly?) so they can put Hughes back in the pen? Would make sense because of his innings limit I suppose.
So no, it's not impressive. Useful to the Yankees, sure. But most GMs could do the same with the same resources as Cashman has. Cashman is good in that he's not Dayton Moore or Bill Bavasi. Big whoop.
And for that, sir, you shall be sentenced to write "CORE FOUR" a thousand times, neatly, on the nearest blackboard.
He didn't get jerked around. He pitched like crap pretty much every time he was called on. He could not throw strikes. Yeah, he got buried and then sent back down. Because he deserved to get buried and then sent back down.
The second time he was called up he went *18* days between appearances.
Do you realize that those eighteen days included the all-star break, which was four days for the Yankees? Melancon pitched 2.1 innings on July 10, so he wasn't available the next day. He wasn't needed the day after that. Then came the break, so that's six of those days right there. Check the box scores from July 17-27 and tell me when he should have pitched, and who he should have been used ahead of. Bruney pitched one inning during that stretch. Robertson went twelve days between appearances around the same time. Should Melancon have been pitching high leverage innings ahead of Aceves or Hughes?
And I say that with the knowledge that the Yankees payroll is $40 million ahead of the #2 team - the Red Sox.
One other thing I'm asking my friends in New England, who are angry that the Sox aren't making some moves -- what moves, outside of more middle relief/setup pitching, would the team try to acquire? In about 10 days, the roster will be:
C - Martinez
IF - Youkilis, Pedroia, Beltre, Scutaro
OF - Ellsbury, Cameron, Drew
DH - Ortiz
SP - Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Matsuzaka
RP - Paps, Bard, and some iffy other relievers
Bench - Varitek, Hermida, Lowell, Lowrie, Hall
Where are the weaknesses? Maybe power in the outfield, but would you get?
Because we all know how infallibly those things translate. I don't regret the Clippard trade, either. Just waiting for Alby to stick. He's even BETTER in SWB this year: .795, 2.5, 11.6
Mark Melancon is a relief prospect. Those have somewhere between zero and negligible value.
In conclusion, Italics.
They took about $4.75M total in getting Berkman and Kearns.
The Pirates are absorbing more salary in taking Chris Snyder. Why didn't the Sox go after him two months ago?
Perhaps they were/are going hard after Lee/Haren(now Lilly?) so they can put Hughes back in the pen? Would make sense because of his innings limit I suppose.
They didn't like the price for the RP available. If you can't improve the run prevention, improve the run production.
Between Robertson, Albaladejo, Logan, Joba, and Aceves they figure they can patch together the bullpen.
Also, in the playoffs, one of Hughes/Vazquez will be in the pen.
JohnsonGrandersonLance Berkman is a much better hitter thanMatsuiDamonMiranda, well...I don't even know how to respond to that, really.No, it's not obvious to me. At best, Berkman is redundant; at worst, super unhappy if Posada doesn't catch. Setting aside the probability of Berkman getting his ring after so many years of awesomeness, I don't see his acquisition being especially meaningful.
Rest of year ZiPs projection:
Berkman: 267/384/489 .383 wOBA
Miranda: 248/317392 .315 wOBA
Where's the mystery here?
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Probably 4 or 5 times a week. DH vs. RHP.
You can disagree with the relative player evaluations. Maybe Miranda is as good. I don't think so, but you're entitled to that opinion.
But, it shouldn't be a surprise as to why most people think this is a big upgrade based on standard evaluation/projection.
Really? They have no DH. Miranda and Curtis have been playing quite a bit.
Curtis
Swisher
Posada
Teixeira
Posada
Arod
Jeter
Jeter
Thames
Miranda
Thames
Posada
Miranda
Thames
Swisher
Eliminate all Thames starts, three to rest regulars, and all Posada starts, leaves 6 games for Berkman. Also keep in mind that Cervelli has caught 40% of July's games.
It won't go exactly like that, for sure, but you can see where I'm coming from.
Mayor is right. At this point, I'm just badgering. We'll see how vital a role Berkman plays once the games are played.
Too bad, because I would have given you about 200 to 1 on that prospect.
Miranda's career AAA OPS is worse than Berkman's career low full season Major League OPS. Berkman's had 85 bad (for him) games, but it would still be an interesting bet as is.
Only makes sense if you think Berkman is seriously damaged goods. Given his age and recent injury history a non-zero probability.
But Miranda is one of those guys that you don't have to do an MLE for. His raw minor league numbers are pretty meh and there's no reason to think major league pitchers won't hold him to less than what he's done in AAA.
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