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Thursday, November 20, 2008

Rosenthal: Where will Teixeira mark his turf?

And other Anti-Icky-Poop from Robothal…

Ibanez, 36, is drawing significant interest from a number of clubs, and compares favorably to the other free-agent sluggers in at least two categories.

His 338 RBIs over the past three seasons are more than the totals posted by Teixeira (336), Ramirez (311), Dunn (298) and Pat Burrell (278). Ryan Howard led the majors during that time with 431 RBIs.

Sabermetricians generally dismiss “counting” stats such as RBIs, but Ibanez played for sub-.500 Mariners teams in two of those seasons, and his home games were at pitcher-friendly Safeco Field.

Ibanez also batted .331 with runners in scoring position during that three-year period, tied with Teixeira and ahead of Ramirez (.317), Burrell (.237) and Dunn (.234). Mike Young led the majors with a .359 average over that span, according to STATS LLC.

Is Ibanez better than Ramirez or Teixeria? Of course not. He’s also five years older than Burrell and seven years older than Dunn, and hits for less power. Still, teams love Ibanez’s professionalism, and one general manager predicts he will receive a three-year deal for between $8 million and $12 million per season.

Repoz Posted: November 20, 2008 at 03:20 PM | 11 comment(s)
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   1. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: November 20, 2008 at 03:38 PM (#3013254)
Thanks for the "analysis".
   2. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 20, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#3013260)
Still, teams love Ibanez’s professionalism, and one general manager predicts he will receive a three-year deal for between $8 million and $12 million per season.

...but Bobby Abreu will inexplicably accept arbitration from the Yankees.
   3. Shredder Posted: November 20, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#3013262)
But another Boras client, Alex Rodriguez, stunned the baseball world by joining the then-lowly Rangers as a free agent after the 2000 season.
Those would be the same "lowly" Rangers who were coming off three division titles in four years. No one was confusing them with the Yankees (who were routinely kicking their ass), but the Rangers weren't awful. They certainly weren't like the Nationals or the Orioles are now.
Teixeira, 28, could justify signing with the Nationals by saying he wanted to be the face of an emerging franchise in the nation's capital. He could rationalize signing with the Orioles by saying he wanted to spark their revival at a time when the team finally is starting to develop young talent.
He could also justify by saying they offered him the best deal, so he took it, and he wants to stay close to home. Why does he need to justify it at all? It's not like his decision is going to get audited. Hell, 90% of the public thinks these guys are going to sign with whoever offers the most money, so what difference does it make.
Sabermetricians generally dismiss "counting" stats such as RBIs
No, they dismiss team dependent stats. RBI's problem isn't that it's a counting stat. I'm no sabermetrician, but even I know they don't dismiss hits, walks, home runs, strikeouts, and other counting stats.
   4. DCA Posted: November 20, 2008 at 03:42 PM (#3013264)
I do like the image of Teixeira peeing a circle around first base before every home game.
   5. snapper Posted: November 20, 2008 at 04:18 PM (#3013298)
I do like the image of Teixeira peeing a circle around first base before every home game.

It would discourage taking a big lead.
   6. Rough Carrigan Posted: November 20, 2008 at 04:19 PM (#3013299)
I'd heard that Rick Bosetti did this. Teixeira, too?
   7. Adam Jones is birdlives' constant Posted: November 20, 2008 at 04:41 PM (#3013318)
He could also justify by saying they offered him the best deal, so he took it, and he wants to stay close to home. Why does he need to justify it at all? It's not like his decision is going to get audited. Hell, 90% of the public thinks these guys are going to sign with whoever offers the most money, so what difference does it make.

The general public tends to disapprove of explicit claims of greed. For example, the data on class self identification show that people self identify as "middle class" in greater proportion of what the distribution of income indicates. I think most people understand that it comes down to the most money, but they like hearing the "playing for my hometown" BS because it sounds better.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: November 20, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#3013524)
Ryan Howard led the majors during that time with 431 RBIs.

Surely he means 2008 MVP Ryan Howard ...

The stuff on Ibanez annoys me. You don't need all these context stats for him. How about over the last 3 years he's basically put up a line of 290/355/490 -- numbers anyone (stathead or no) will consider good. For the statheads, that comes out to about a 123 OPS+. You don't need extra double super-clutchiness that stats geeks will never appreciate to make that sound good ... save those arguments for your Garrett Anderson article.

Perfectly fine hitter. No point compoaring him to the guys he compares him to but a lot of teams should be kicking his tires. Unfortunately, if the defensive reports here are at all true, nobody should be thinking of him for any position but DH or maybe 1B. Tampa should definitely be taking a look as should Toronto (unless they really are punting 2009). But Ibanez's age 37-39 seasons -- that doesn't sound good.

Using good ol' PI, from 2000-2008, 11 other players aged 34-36 have put up OPS+s in the 115-135 range in that time (1200+ PA). "Average" refers to roughly average for a 1B/LF/RF/DH not relative to whatever position these players actually played.

Posada hasn't had his age 37 season yet but it's not looking good in terms of health
Kent maintained 37-39
L Gonzalez had one average, 2 below average
Bagwell got hurt
Griffey had one average, 1 below
Delgado hasn't had his age 37 season yet
Giles did nicely in his age 37 season
VanderWal (who knew he had 1200+ PA) is probably just a bad comp but one average season then out of baseball
Justice was toast
Alou had 1400 PA of excellent hitting
Snow stunk

So 3 good outcomes (Kent, Giles so far and Alou), one "OK" outcome (Gonzo), a couple not-applicables and lots of cliffs and missed time.

Don't worry, I don't take comp lists all that seriously -- aggregate similarity is not density. But that does seem a reasonable comp set for Ibanez. Some of those guys were obviously much better than he ever was but it is mostly a list of defensively limited (esp by 36) corner types but no fat slobs or anything.

I'll give him 2/$20 with a $12 M option with a $2 M buyout.

What can I say, I just got my economic stimulus check from the IRS and I'm spending freely.

(Some of you may be wondering why a guy living in New Zealand is getting money to stimulate the US economy ...)
   9. Jim Wisinski endorses Ben Zobrist's MVP candidacy Posted: November 20, 2008 at 09:09 PM (#3013550)
Erin Andrews was just interviewing Teixeira during the Georgia Tech game. She was talking for a bit with a lead-in before actually saying who it was and I was thinking "Who's this vaguely dorky looking guy she's about to talk to? Is he the founder of some popular internet company or something?" Pretty funny, doesn't exactly look like a slugging first baseman.
   10. Thomas Richard Hamilton Nugent Posted: November 20, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#3013584)
Outside of his low AB totals throughout his career, Vanderwal's a lot like Ibanez. Like Ibanez, Vanderwal was a defensively limited player who stuck around until he broke out at 29. Also, he was a left handed platoon bat, though Vanderwal's splits were absurd (.819 vs. RHP, .538 vs. LHP), while Ibanez' splits are good enough that he might have a lot of undeserved ABs vs. LHP (.849 vs. .733).
   11. Walt Davis Posted: November 21, 2008 at 12:39 AM (#3013633)
aggregate similarity is not density.

I like it!

The rest of you might prefer "aggregate similarity is not destiny."
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