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salfino:Pretty sure that's Harrison playing lead. Fantastic song, perhaps my favorite from an album that still stands as the best single thing a solo Beatle ever did. I mean, seriously: a double album with almost NO bad songs at all (I count maybe one)? By George Harrison of all people? Who saw that one coming in 1970?
Oh, I adore Bonzo too. I enjoy many Zep tunes a lot, and some of their classic songs ("Misty Mountain Hop" for one) are pretty much all about Bonham.
Though if I lived the rest of my life without hearing another Led Zeppelin "blues" song, I think I'd honestly be OK with that.
2) Old Rasputin, though I like La Chouffe too
3) Waver between brilliant and self indulging.
And talking of bassists..One of the best live guys I have seen is Johnny Myung from Dream Theater.
Butler was pretty good too
La Chouffe! That's one of the beers I love. Good stuff.
2.) Unibroue La Fin du Monde or Trois Pistoles
3.) Not a fan at all, though I acknowledge they have put out some solid music.
2)Rogue Dead Guy Ale
3)Rush is the perfect greatest hits band... The double disk hits collection is the only Rush most folks need.
I only count one seriously weak song across four sides. But it was actually a triple album - with a completely useless instrumental third record. (Seriously, if you've got a song that you're even thinking of calling "Thanks For the Pepperoni," the world doesn't need to hear it.) And to think that that record was essentially how Derek & the Dominoes came together.
Rush is a great blend of pretentiousness and charm, somehow dopey but with great potential that's often realized. Like a bright adolescent who's almost as smart as he thinks he is.
Speaking of things Canadian, there's a Quebec brewer called Unibroue that's putting out my favorite beers of late. Mostly Belgian-style and quite good. And thanks to Ichiro and U.S.S. Mariner, I'm fond of SP Lager, although I've never tasted it.
Hmmn...I think Thompson's solo work is notable for its consistency. Sure, not every album is up there with those you mentioned, but even a lesser work such as Mirror Blue has moments such as "Beeswing" and "King of Bohemia". There's at least one classic song on virtually every album he's made. And he's still doing it - his latest album, Sweet Warrior, is excellent.
Fairport Convention circa 1969 is the probably the band I'd most like to see, given a TARDIS (except for perhaps The Beatles before the girls started screaming). I agree that the mix of original material and well chosen covers is amazing - what drives it into the realm of immortality is throwing the traditional British folk songs in there on Liege and Lief. Sandy Denny remains my all-time favorite singer (of either gender, in any genre), and Thompson is my favorite guitarist. To see them on stage together would be...well, I really can't imagine it.
I'm really glad we had that RT conversation about a month ago. Got me re-interested in him again. I just got Sweet Warrior from Amazon. It is excellent. Give Rumor and Sigh a run for the money.
It seems most of your finest rock bands have really good rythym sections - Starr/McCartney, Moon/Entwhistle, Watts/Wyman (I'm aware no one's mentioned Wyman in this thread - he isn't in the conversation for the best bass player ever, but he was really good).
It's very hard to find a really well-known rock band built on a creeky foundation. (Well, there's punk, but that's almost doesn't belong in the category. They were aiming at a sound that was rough). Among bands that put any stock in technical competence whatsoever, it's hard to find many bad bassists or drummers.
Well, I guess the guy from the Doors was a lousy drummer. Not a huge fan of the entire band, but the drumming always sounded shoddy to me.
I know who has the worst lead guitarist -- the Beatles. Ever listened to the guitar solo in "Twist and Shout"? I swear to God, he forgot it was there - he just kept playing the verse part. A little louder, but it's just the verse part.
What would be the worst rock band you can come up with from the best bands of all-time?
Drummer - Doors Guy
Bassist - ?
Lead Guitar - George Harrison
Lead Singer - ?
Keyboardist - ?
Totaly different note -- but the keyboardist from the Animals was one of the best ever.
Yeah, and if you take away Exile on Main St., Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Beggars Banquet the Stones aren't all that great either...sheesh.
Disraeli Gears, Fresh Cream and Wheels of Fire (not to mention other live Cream albums); Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton; Blind Faith; Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs. Six of the best blues-rock albums ever released, all driven by Clapton's guitar more than anything.
Eddie Van Halen once said of Jimmy Page "He plays guitar like he has a broken hand."
Based on the comments in this thread, most primates would vote for Geddy Lee in the singer part. Me, I'd vote for Steve Perry or Phil Collins.
True. Rick Wakeman and Jon Lord too.
How about Meg White? Or if the White Stripes aren't a Best Band, Mo Tucker? I mean, I love the Velvet Underground to an unhealthy degree, but put that drumming in any other context and it breaks down pretty quick.
1) his favorite sport; baseball - it's all I think about, I think my family has had enough - test cricket is second but the standard has dropped and its not the same after a childish series between Australia and Inida this summer
2) his choice of beer; Nogne O Pale Ale - it's my flavour of the year so far - awesome.
3) how he feels about Rush - what about the voice of Geddy Lee? How did it get so high?
Dream Theater are also awesome. What can I say, I enjoy their masturbatory instrumental wankery.
That makes me feel really good! Glad you liked Sweet Warrior.
I just checked it out on Rhapsody, and I mostly agree. It's missing two essentials, YYZ and In the End.
I love how the beat in YYZ spells out the airport identifier in morse code: dah dit dah dah dah dit dah dah dah dah dit dit
Yeah, I'm a fan, and I like baseball and Guiness. So, I'm Clemenza.
I can't stand Rush.
I do, however, think it's pretty cool to see Geddy Lee sitting behind home plate at Blue Jays games. Whenever the Yankees, Red Sox or Twins are in town, he seems to be there.
2. Leffe or Unibroue's Blanche de Chambly.
3. Loved them as a kid. Moved on, but they're still fun.
I prefer Fenway's.
Whaaat? Densmore was a fantastic drummer. He and Robby Krieger were solid professionals and carried that band, IMO (and while I was a huge fan when I was 15, it's waned considerably).
How about Meg White? Or if the White Stripes aren't a Best Band, Mo Tucker?
Sure, but that kind of misses the point of why these people were in those bands.
It's hard for me to come up with many examples of bands that had poor drummers or bass players, because it's hard for me to enjoy a rock and roll band if the rhythm section isn't doing its job. Kinda defeats the purpose of the whole genre. By definition, such a band is one I am usually not going to have a lot of interest in (although I love the VU and White Stripes).
Van Halen has a surprisingly dull bassist. After about 1967, Bill Wyman seemed to lose interest in his job. Keith Richards played bass on about half of Exile on Main Street, I think.
I know who has the worst lead guitarist -- the Beatles. Ever listened to the guitar solo in "Twist and Shout"? I swear to God, he forgot it was there - he just kept playing the verse part. A little louder, but it's just the verse part.
Geez, it was 1962 and the song was a cover: he was basically filling in the bridge with the same horn riff from the original. And he was 19. Harrison developed into a fine guitarist in his early to mid 20s, and he wasn't exclusively a lead guitarist anyway. Starting in '65 or so he did some really nice work. Rarely do you listen to a Harrison Beatles guitar solo and think wow, that was a great guitar solo (not that there aren't exceptions: "Something", "Hey Bulldog"), but the Beatles weren't about guitar solos.
I wouldn't argue with that.
So, it's Jimmy Page then?
And Circumstances.
Heh.
That said, we can all agree Steve Perry is terrible, no?
Thanks. I plan to keep the handle alive only as long as this thread is relevant. Plus ça change, Plus c'est la même chose
Next thing we know and this clown's gonna piss on the Hall of Fame.
I guess I like Rush more than most people, but the perfect greatest hits band would have to be worse than Rush, no? Someone like Goerge Thorogood or 311 or Godsmack. Or, speaking of Steve Perry...
Did you hear that they kicked Michael Anthony out of the band to make room for Eddie's son Wolfgang? I don't know if Wolfgang is any good, but it's at least kind of interesting that 3/4 of the band are named "Van Halen" now.
Heh, good question. Despite the era, and despite my opinion that Page deserved all of the accolades he got as a guitarist, his solos rarely do a lot for me. Page's genius was his ability to work up innovative riffs with Bonham and get unbelievable sounds of out of his guitar. He was like a hybrid of Steve Cropper and Jimi Hendrix. Not that he didn't do some great solos (usually on the bluesy stuff), but to me they have little to do with what made him a great guitarist. IMO, Page's great accomplishments were songs like "Black Dog" and "The Rover."
I never saw Led Zeppelin live, but I have never quite figured out why that had such a great reputation as a live band, and not more as a band that too full advantage of what the studio offered and thus couldn't really pull it off live. All I have to judge by is The Song Remains the Same and the various things in the Led Zeppelin DVD, but I see a band that was far too prone to lengthy, often poorly executed, masturbatory noodling, most of it from Page. The studio version of "Stairway to Heaven" (which featured a very nice Page solo) was long enough. Why did they feel the need to make it twice as long live?
They recently finished a tour with Wolfgang (aka Wolfie) on bass and David Lee Roth on vocals; by most accounts Wolfie (who's 16 years old) was competent but hardly spectacular. I tend to agree that Michael Anthony was sort of dull on bass, but IMO he played well on a couple of their albums, particularly Fair Warning.
It's baseball and Guinness for me.
As for music, I left the "prog rock" universe long ago, and musical snobbery about the same time.
I can appreciate a good bassist as much as anyone -- Mingus, Bootsy, Entwistle, Claypool, Wooten, etc., but some of my favorite rock bands have had barely competent bassists -- Clash, Replacements.
Nobody mentions Sting because he's a prima donna, but The Police are driven by his bass.
I don't underestimate the importance of a good rhythm section in rock, but it's guitar music.
Oh yeah, Kim Gordon.
A rock bassist can make a good living on the E.
I'd say Robbie Robertson is the worst lead guitarist for a major band (purely as a lead guitarist, I'm actually a big fan of his overall). I also find Dave Davies rather unsatisfying as a lead though of course that's not what the band is really about. Everyone who played lead other than Joe Walsh in the Eagles was also fairly weak. And I think Carl Wilson from the Beach Boys is a poor lead though of course that's not a really a guitar driven band.
John Lennon actually played lead guitar on "Hey Bulldog".
Interesting that Michael Anthony got so many nominations. I've always thought that Van Halen's rythym section plodded, but I always thought it was Alex Van Halen's fault. Whosever's fault it is, they basically have all the fizz of a day-old opened Dr. Pepper.
Very well said. I think Harrison improved tremendously as a guitarist over the course of The Beatles' career. His adoption of slide guitar just before the breakup made his sound...
I like Rush well enough, but their singles don't reach a level of greatness required of a perfect greatest hits band. I'd say they're up there with, say, Aerosmith in terms of bands where the stuff you hear on the radio is good, and you don't really need the rest of it.
Good one. How about Three Dog Night?
Are we excusing Ringo Starr from the worst musician debate out of mercy?
I love Zeppelin, and I agree that Paige's greatest strengths are crafting riffs and song structure, though I don't think his solos are a weakness.
If I was making a band on pure musicianship (out of well known artists), I would have Peart on drums, Hendrix on guitar, Pastorious on bass, and possibly Chris Cornell on vocals, but that's negotiable. I don't know enough rhythm guitarists to nominate one.
And for the record, I love baseball and basketball, prefer to drink Smithwicks (or Newcastle or any dark ale), and enjoy Rush.
The correct answer is Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
I'm fairly sure that the Van Halens are well on their way towards pissing off every non-related musician on the planet, so they'll likely be stuck with some random cousin singing soon.
Agree completely - and it's near criminal that the idea of 'worst' X comes up, and from the Beatles, we select GEORGE FRACKIN' HARRISON but no one brings up Ringo Starr?
Half the drum tracks that Ringo gets credited with were actually laid down by McCartney covering up Ringo's utter averagishness (at his best).
Strangely enough, I've seen Ringo's annual summer "all-Starr Band" tour three times, but on each occasion -- solely to see folks he was touring with (Joe Walsh, John Entwistle, etc).
To me, that's a "steal it off the net" band. I mean, I paid $10 for a Destroyers greatest hits tap in high school; I think that entitles me to poaching the random Thorogood song in a new format when I feel the need to do so.
I think Rush is fair enough that I'd probably purchase their hits package again in whatever format evolves past our current.
Completely disagree.
Not on par with the Beach Boys to enter the discussion of greatest American bands, but they're damn close.
Beyond the early 80s, when they got sorta tired, they've got a long catalog of excellent work.
Neil Peart has sorta moved away from Objectivism, but the bigger problem with putting him in this band is that he's really good. They'd need to find one of the more nondescript drummers for one of those bands that have the concerts attended mostly by people wearing black T-shirts.
I suppose the Nuge is something of a talented guitarist. Unfortunately, he's an awful signer, a lousy songwriter and composer, and so difficult to get along with and work with that he hasn't had people who can help him with his shortcomings.
Come to think of it, this sounds like Frank Zappa too if you ignore the "composer" and "something" parts since he's possibly the most inventive and prolific composer and guitar player the rock world has ever seen. Of course he didn't really write songs per se and was difficult enough to work with that he could attract any either. He once had Lowell George (Little Feat), who turned out to be a fine songwriter, in his band but kicked him out.
The Gene Simmons mention reminds me of a pretty crappy drummer: his ex-bandmate Peter Criss. I don't know if he's a right-winger though.
Hilarious. I suppose Satriani is technically gifted but it seems like there are a lot of guys out there like that at any given time, and that the real shortage appears to be in rockers who can write good songs.
Appropos of nothing, one time I went to see Rush and they had a guy named Vinnie Moore, who was basically a poor man's Joe Satriani or Steve Vai, as the opening act. He would introduce every song with it's title but they were all pretty much the same song.
Well, I could have just saved everyone time and said that Kiss would be the worst supergroup of all time, but they don't fit the traditional definition of "supergroup."
Although Kiss also serves as an example of how you don't need to be talented musicians-qua-musicians to be rock stars, albeit a different type of example from say, The Clash.
For the record, McCartney played drum only on Dear Prudence and Back in the USSR, during the brief time Ringo left the band.
I don't know enough about them beyond their hits to agree or disagree, which may prove your point.
I like Rush well enough, but their singles don't reach a level of greatness required of a perfect greatest hits band. I'd say they're up there with, say, Aerosmith in terms of bands where the stuff you hear on the radio is good, and you don't really need the rest of it.
*You* don't, but their fans do. Obviously a lot of this is personal preference, but if you ask 100 actual Rush fans what their favorite song is you might get 50 different answers. They are not for everyone (to put it mildly), but they're talented enough that their more obscure songs are at least interesting, and pleasing to some. IMO the perfect greatest hits band is one where all the songs sound about the same, so the obsure ones are basically about like the hits only worse. Nobody goes to a George Thorogood or Huey Lewis or ZZ Top concert to hear obscure B sides.
On the other hand, if you go by commercial success (greatest hits compilations sold versus actual albums sold), the winner would probably be Bob Marley.
1. baseball; (college hoops 2nd)
2. probably Presidente;; mostly drink Sweetwater 420
3. I like Rush okay, but I'm not a rabid fan. They might crack my top 30 bands or so.
"Tom Sawyer" is in 7/4 I think. It's pretty tough on "Rock Band"
Not on par with the Beach Boys to enter the discussion of greatest American bands, but they're damn close.
Beyond the early 80s, when they got sorta tired, they've got a long catalog of excellent work.
Ditto. Petty and the Heartbreakers are a greatly underappreciated band.
Source? Every source I've seen credits Harrison, but I agree that stylistically it could be Lennon.
Also "The Ballad of John and Yoko." Which has pretty amateurish sounding drums.
I think they hand out Bob Marley Legend at freshman orientation.
I just had a flashback to alt.music.rush.
Every regular or semi-regular on there had his (I use the masculine for a reason, they have few female fans) own pet obscure or semi-obscure song they tout as an all-time great.
As for my favorite performances of his, check out "Rain," "Strawberry Fields Forever," "Good Morning Good Morning" (the Anthology take removes the horns and you can focus on how insane a combination of minimalism and complexity the drum track is - he's pushing the kick like a defibrillator), "Baby You're A Rich Man," or (in a very different way) "Something."
As for this:This is farcical. You take those away and you still have The Rolling Stones No. 2, Aftermath, Between The Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, Goats Head Soup, Some Girls, and a slew of classic singles ("Little Red Rooster," "The Last Time," "Satisfaction," "Get Off Of My Cloud," "19th Nervous Breakdown," "Paint It Black," "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing In The Shadow?," "Let's Spend The Night Together," "We Love You," "Jumpin' Jack Flash," "Honky Tonk Woman," etc.)
Clapton wasn't even the most interesting part of any band he was in, with the exception of maybe Derek & The Dominoes (and there Duane Allman fights for your primary attention). In Cream Jack Bruce wrote most of the songs, sang most of the lyrics, and took centerstage with his bass. In Blind Faith Steve Winwood was the most interesting contributor.
However, I do think that in '67/'68 or so his contributions started to suffer. I don't know if it was the band as a whole deciding to downplay the drums, or Ringo getting lazy, but he's barely there on the White Album and in many of the singles from '67 and '68.
Of course, he was was back to his best form on Let It Be, and Abbey Road features some of his best work.
"Ticket To Ride" is a great early/midddle Beatles drum track. Thanks for pointing me to "The Night Before," too...hadn't really paid much attention to that one before but you're right, the percussion track is pretty clever and layered, especially the maraca break in the middle eight.
Also, he plays a pretty decent set of brushes, cf "I've Just Seen A Face" (the finest song from Help! in my opinion).
I believe I am the only member of the Ringo Starr Singing Fan Club. I know he has no range but I love the sheer pleasantness of his voice.
I know nothing of music, but I always thought Ringo's drumming sounded like it was being played backwards.
Also "The Ballad of John and Yoko." Which has pretty amateurish sounding drums.
I don't care. I love that song.
I don't care. I love that song.
Oh, I do too, and I don't mind the fact that McCartney played the drums here and there. The idea that he was anything close to Ringo is nuts though.
You want to hear great British Invasion-era drumming? Listen to Ringo Starr beat the holy living hell out of his kit on "Twist And Shout." That wasn't just Lennon's triumph, there. The drums lock in with the guitar perfectly (listen to the opening, it's a like a crank winding up a generator), and the little coda at the end is a slice of overcompressed mono godliness.
- Male Vocals: Peter Gabriel (more subjective than any other choice...I've just always been fascinated by his voice, both the early screeching and the later hoarseness)
- Female Vocals: Sandy Denny (none better. ever.)
- Lead guitar: Robert Fripp
- Rhythm Guitar: Pete Townshend (honorable mention: Peter Buck)
- Bass: John Entwistle
- Drums: Phil Collins (anyone who laughs at this has never heard him drum, period)
- Keyboards: Elton John (honorable mention: Nicky Hopkins)
- Production/Sound effects weirdness: Brian Eno
Guest instrumentalists:
- Harmonica: Stevie Wonder
- Backing vocals: either The Beach Boys (Wilson/Wilson/Wilson/Jardine/Love/Johnston) or the Beatles (Lennon/McCartney/Harrison)
- Slide Guitar: Duane Allman
- Mellotron: Mike Pinder (playing this instrument properly is a real skill, like trying to wrestle a rhinoceros)
The Beatles are one of two bands where the lead guitarist might be the most obscure member of the band. The other is Motley Cure.
Then again "most obscure Beatle" is a rather strange sounding phrase. The noun defeats the purpose of the adjective.
Although Kiss also serves as an example of how you don't need to be talented musicians-qua-musicians to be rock stars, albeit a different type of example from say, The Clash.
Topper Headron was a great drummer.
Johnny Ramone was a ocnservative.
Still is.
Speaking of bad bassists, Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue is considered one of the worst bassists in hard rock. He's a good songwriter for the kind of stuff the Crue does, and recently released an album with a side band called Sixx AM that's surprisingly solid. As a bassist, however, he's always been considered a weak point for Motley.
That solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" is Eric Clapton. Of course George wrote and sang the song so it's not like he *had* to hire Clapton. It might well have been a case of some of the other Beatles not being around, which happened quite a bit during sessions for the White Album.
I think Rush probably should be mentioned here. Not that that's a knock on Alex Lifeson's guitar chops, but the other two guys are more famous.
Though my favorite Harrisong is probably "Long, Long, Long." Brutally underrated, that one.
And The Beatles DID actually have to bring in a musician to play a solo for them, in a way. Harrison couldn't get Lennon and McCartney to take "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" seriously during the White Album sessions, so he invited Clapton in to play the solo in order to force the others to shape up. It worked.
Talking Heads.
Apparently you didn't read the thread.
Ha, beat me to it. Though see my post for an explanation of what actually happened there. Harrison demoed the song for the band (the "acoustic" version found on Anthology 3), but they weren't really interested in focusing on it, so out of frustration he brought a (reluctant) Clapton in to basically send a message to Lennon and McCartney: "look, I'll just do it myself with Ringo and my friends if you don't want to help out."
Lennon and McCartney were always guilty of spending endless amounts of time producing their songs and then rushing through Harrison's. Only "Something" really got the studio attention it deserved from the rest. Lennon didn't even show up for the recording sessions of a lot of Harrison's songs.
By the way, I'm listening to Talking Heads nonstop these days. The first four albums plus The Name Of This Band Is... are essential purchases. A compilation is all you need after that, though. What a sudden collapse. I count exactly four good songs during their last 8 years ("And She Was," "Road To Nowhere," "Wild Wild Life," "(Nothing But) Flowers").
Ah, so *that's* what it was.
Supposedly Harrison had several All Things Must Pass already written for Abbey Road. But no, instead we got "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (Paul's fault) and all 8 freakin' minutes of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" (John's fault). Probably a good thing for the fans in the long run since we got to hear George's tunes anyway, but I'd be pissed if I had written, say, "What Is Life" and my bandmate had said, "Nah, let's do another take of Maxwell." (Supposedly they did dozens of takes of that number.)
I strongly disagree. Naked is a terribly underrated album, and one I'll still listen to front to back 20 years after first buying it. I wasn't a fan of True Stories, but regard the other post-Name of This Band albums as just a notch below Remain in Light.
EDIT: And Billy Preston says hi.
Man, I love Ringo's drumming on "Rain".
It's a total cheat, but I thought of an excellent "worst instrumentalist from a big band": Sid Vicious. I mean, I realize that he didn't really play on the album and anyway no one ever said the Sex Pistols were great musicians in the first place, but still. He's a canonical member of an iconic band and absolutely could not play a note. The original bassist for The Runaways falls in that category too.
So does Yoko, I guess.
It has it's uses; I like the sound of the guitar on that little jazzy solo in the middle. Everything good about it would still be good if its runtime were 4:50 or so.
(Did Preston ever play guitar on any Beatles track? I thought his contributions were limited to keyboards.)
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