Lennon was kind of a #### to Harrison. paul was the closest to George and would lobby for him but Lennon wasn't having any of it, despite what Paul acknowledged as firstrate songwritng by George.

In a Playboy interview shortly before he dies, John acknowledged he thought of George as the little kid tagging along with Paul and didn't give him the type of respect he deserved.

(Did Preston ever play guitar on any Beatles track? I thought his contributions were limited to keyboards.)

Are you only accepting greetings from session musicians who played guitar solos for the Beatles?

Lots of Beatles fans here, it seems like. Or at least folks with some interest in a lot of the picky details about less-known songs.

So it seems like as good a place as any to link to my blog where I ranked every Beatles song from 1-206. I put a lot of work into the order, but ultimately it's really just a list of my favorites not of any "objective" worth. One of the great things about The Beatles is the way that virtually every song could easily be someone's favorite and it would be hard to really call them wrong.

Would love to hear comments or thoughts from the Primer crowd on their favorites.

Are you only accepting greetings from session musicians who played guitar solos for the Beatles?

Well otherwise we have to talk to the guys who played strings on Yesterday plus whoever was on piccolo trumpet for Penny Lane, and so on. Maybe it should be limited to people who played instruments the Beatles themselves normally played. Like the guy who played drums on Love Me Do while Ringo was stuck on tambourine.

Are you only accepting greetings from session musicians who played guitar solos for the Beatles?

Well, I think the topic came up in the context of a band's lead guitarist (citing, in addition to Harrison, The Kinks' Dave Davies specifically) needing a ringer at some point.

Bringing in keyboardists was a common practice. The Who would bring in Nicky Hopkins to play piano frequently, to the point where he's almost the de facto 5th member of the band on some studio albums. The Stones used him too, and they had other people to fill in on other instruments, especially after Brian Jones died.

hey, stay on topic ; )

*You* don't, but their fans do. Obviously a lot of this is personal preference, but if you ask 100 actual Rush fans what their favorite song is you might get 50 different answers.



I just had a flashback to alt.music.rush.

Every regular or semi-regular on there had his (I use the masculine for a reason, they have few female fans) own pet obscure or semi-obscure song they tout as an all-time great.

If Overture/Temples of Syrinx can be considered one song, that is it for me. If By-Tor and the Snow Dog ended at the 4:40 mark, that would be it. As it is, for a stand alone start to finish favorite, it would have to be Red Barchetta. And I really like their cover of Crossroads.

And among my least favorites are their three of their biggest commercial successes, Limelight, New World man and Tom Sawyer

If Overture/Temples of Syrinx can be considered one song, that is it for me. If By-Tor and the Snow Dog ended at the 4:40 mark, that would be it. As it is, for a stand alone start to finish favorite, it would have to be Red Barchetta. And I really like their cover of Crossroads.

And among my least favorites are their three of their biggest commercial successes, Limelight, New World man and Tom Sawyer

I have to admit, I was a little disappointed when I looked up the greatest hits collection mentioned in #105, and saw that my favorite (Xanadu) was on it - I was all ready to complain. Excluding the greatest hits, my favorites are Digital Man, Jacob's Ladder and Turn the Page.

Misirlou in a Gleaming Alloy Air Car Posted: June 08, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2812406)

...

Yeah, I'm a fan, and I like baseball and Guiness. So, I'm Clemenza.

My condolences.

Baldrick, that's a cool idea for your blog. You gave me something to do while eating lunch.

Personal Beatles favs include: I've Just Seen a Face, Two of Us, Taxman, She Said She Said, For No One, I'm Looking Through You, You've Got to Hide Your Love Away.

As you can tell the Help, Revolver, Rubber Soul years were really in my wheel house. It's all great stuff though.

My own favorite not-super-known Rush song is "The Body Electric."

I'm reading that Beatles blog thing, Baldrick. It's a fun read...but I'm going in order of weak to strong, have gone thru 3 pages and yet to see that bad version of "Mr. Moonlight" (well, really, the original isn't any good either) listed. The only covers that really work for me ("Twist & Shout," "Money (That's What I Want)," maybe "Rock & Roll Music" are all sung by Lennon - then again, so is "Mr. Moonlight." )

And among my least favorites are their three of their biggest commercial successes, Limelight, New World man and Tom Sawyer

New World Man was written and recorded in a day -- it was a filler song so the cassettes would have continuity -- no dead air on one side. It became their biggest US single. I've always thought Limelight and Tom Sawyer were the type of overproduced songs that turned certain people off to Rush.

By the way, I'm listening to Talking Heads nonstop these days. The first four albums plus The Name Of This Band Is... are essential purchases. A compilation is all you need after that, though. What a sudden collapse. I count exactly four good songs during their last 8 years ("And She Was," "Road To Nowhere," "Wild Wild Life," "(Nothing But) Flowers").

Now that's just nuts. The became less odd, but remained solid - well, until "Naked" which had only the one good song.

You don't like a single song on Speaking in Tongues? Burnin' Down the House was one of their best. Swamp, Making Flippy Floppy, and Girlfriend is Better are all great. This Must Be the Place might be the best song on the album.

Actually, I checked out the True Stories CD from my library recently and was happily surprised how many good songs were on there tha I hadn't heard in years. Puzzlin' Evidence, People Like Us, and Love for Sale are all great. Dream Operator and Hey Now are good. And Wild Wild Life was one of their best.

Aside from And She Was & Road to Nowhere, the Little Creatures album also had Walk It Down, and Television Man.

Supposedly Harrison had several All Things Must Pass already written for Abbey Road. But no, instead we got "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (Paul's fault) and all 8 freakin' minutes of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" (John's fault). Probably a good thing for the fans in the long run since we got to hear George's tunes anyway, but I'd be pissed if I had written, say, "What Is Life" and my bandmate had said, "Nah, let's do another take of Maxwell." (Supposedly they did dozens of takes of that number.)

In high school I read a book that went over every single Beatles studio session ever & what they did in each of them. The song they did hte most takes on ever was a Harrison song - "Not Guilty" - that they never even used. The song they did the most takes on that they did use was "Oh-blah-Di, Oh-Bla-Da" with 101 takes, IIRC.

#203 - Baldrick:

So it seems like as good a place as any to link to my blog where I ranked every Beatles song from 1-206. I put a lot of work into the order, but ultimately it's really just a list of my favorites not of any "objective" worth. One of the great things about The Beatles is the way that virtually every song could easily be someone's favorite and it would be hard to really call them wrong.

Would love to hear comments or thoughts from the Primer crowd on their favorites.

Without even looking at the list, I can confidently say that, unless "You Never Give Me Your Money" is at #1 on your list, you are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Actually, the idea of trying to rank The Beatles' songs ordinally is so hopeless that I'm amazed that anyone can do it. I can name personal favorites and I can name the ones I really hate, but it's a massive bell curve effect of genius there in the middle, with tons of fantastic songs clustered together in the middle with little to differentiate them save personal taste and a preference for one era over another. Me, I'm as much a fan of their energetic early stuff as their later, more ruminiscent work.

Before looking at your list, I will provide my list of "favorite NON-SUPERFAMOUS Beatle songs." In other words, nothing that appeared on a major greatest hits collection or was a single. Forget about trying to rank them in order, this list is chronological:

1.) There's A Place
2.) It Won't Be Long
3.) You've Really Got A Hold On Me
4.) Any Time At All
5.) I'll Be Back
6.) No Reply
7.) Kansas City/Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
8.) Every Little Thing (the Yes version of this from their first album may just be my favorite Beatles cover ever)
9.) I've Just Seen A Face
10.) The Word (I FRIGGIN' LOVE THIS SEMI-ONE CHORD WONDER)
11.) I'm Looking Through You
12.) She Said, She Said
13.) Good Day Sunshine
14.) And Your Bird Can Sing
15.) For No One (these last three make the greatest sequence of songs on any Beatles album)
16.) Rain
17.) Getting Better
18.) Baby, You're A Rich Man
19.) It's All Too Much
20.) Dear Prudence
21.) Martha My Dear
22.) Long, Long, Long
23.) I've Got A Feeling
24.) You Never Give Me Your Money
25.) Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight

If "Don't Let Me Down" and "Old Brown Shoe" hadn't been included on the "Blue Album" I would have put them here too.

Also FWIW, the album mix of "Let It Be" clobbers the meek single version.

Oh, and I forgot to mention . . .

I'd distinguish between the Clapton guitaring for the Beatles and the Kinks decision to hire Jimmy Page or whoever.

Harrison's song was good enough and he could play guitar. Reading this thread, it sounds like the issue was getting his bandmates' attention.

With the Kinks, they hired out the guitar solo because the producers or whoever really thought Dave Davies just plain couldn't hack it back in '64. That's something you don't see everyday.

This is farcical. You take those away and you still have The Rolling Stones No. 2, Aftermath, Between The Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, Goats Head Soup, Some Girls, and a slew of classic singles ("Little Red Rooster," "The Last Time," "Satisfaction," "Get Off Of My Cloud," "19th Nervous Breakdown," "Paint It Black," "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing In The Shadow?," "Let's Spend The Night Together," "We Love You," "Jumpin' Jack Flash," "Honky Tonk Woman," etc.)

The Rolling Stones are my favorite band so you'll get no disagreement from me on this point, but they wouldn't be in the conversation of Best Band Ever without those four albums. Just like Clapton wouldn't be in the conversation for Best Guitarist Ever if you arbitrarily remove those six albums. And Clapton had other great stuff, too; his Unplugged album, From the Cradle, 461 Ocean Blvd., his work on the live album with Delaney & Bonnie, and so on.

Clapton is the guy that got me into rock music in the first place, so I'm just a bit biased. :) "Layla" was the song. He's still my second favorite guitarist (the first being Duane Allman).

My own favorite not-super-known Rush song is "The Body Electric."

That is one of my favorites also. It follows two other great songs, Red Sector A and The Enemy Within.

14.) For No One (these last three make the greatest sequence of songs on any Beatles album)

"For No One" is my favorite Beatles song, period.

#211 - Doc Nabbit:

You don't like a single song on Speaking in Tongues? Burnin' Down the House was one of their best. Swamp, Making Flippy Floppy, and Girlfriend is Better are all great. This Must Be the Place might be the best song on the album.

Speaking In Tongues has always been the great mystery in the Talking Heads discography for me, inasmuch as I feel like I should enjoy it more than I actually do. "Burning Down The House" is okay for a song with no actual melody, but it's not a favorite. "Girlfriend Is Better" is probably the best song on the album, but I like the Stop Making Sense version more. "This Must Be The Place" never did a damn thing for me, and "Making Flippy-Floppy" is slowly growing on me, but not enough that I would include it on the Talking Heads compilations I make for friends.

FWIW, what I DO include is the following: Psycho Killer/Don't Worry About The Government/Uh-Oh, Love Comes To Town/No Compassion/Warning Sign/Thank You For Sending Me An Angel/Artists Only/Take Me To The River/Heaven/Memories Can't Wait/Air/I Zimbra/Once In A Lifetime/The Great Curve/Burning Down The House/And She Was/Road To Nowhere/Wild Wild Life/(Nothing But) Flowers.

So it seems like as good a place as any to link to my blog where I ranked every Beatles song from 1-206. I put a lot of work into the order

Hey, I like "Wild Honey Pie." It's crap, but it's enjoyable crap. I love the stacato guitar and it sounds like they were having a lot of fun with it.

"Boys" is good to.

You Know My Name - yeah, that one sucked.

Agree about Beatles for Sale - an album full of inessential covers, indeed.

If you really think Money is the 195th best Beatles song then you should have your crack dealer reported to the Better Business Bureau because he's feeding you some real vile stuff. If they refuse to act, just mention that you also put Yesterday in the top ten.

Without even looking at the list, I can confidently say that, unless "You Never Give Me Your Money" is at #1 on your list, then you are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Well, sort of.

And yeah, the idea of producing an actual ordinal rank is of course in some sense completely impossible. I have 5-10 that are clearly at the top. 30-40 that clearly are at the bottom, but most others could swing pretty wildly in between depending on my feelings for that day.

But still, producing a list, even as a snapshot fulfilled the more significant interest which was just to take the chance to write something about every song by my favorite band.

[Page:] Concerning the Kinks' work, though, and looking at it in
retrospect, my presence at their sessions was to enable Ray Davies to
wander around and virtually maintain control of everything, without
having to be down in the studio all the time. Ray was producing those
songs as much as Shel Talmy was . . . more so actually because Ray was
directing them and everything. At one point, there were even three
guitars playing the same riff.

[Ray Davies:] Dave Davies is a good guitar player and he played the solos
on all our records. Jimmy Page played tamborine on 'Long Tall Shorty'
because he came into the studio as a friend of Shel Talmy's. [...]
Dave Davies did all those solos and Dave started that sound. The take
of "You Really Got Me" that was actually released was the third take --
there was a demo thing with Dave playing lead, a second cut which may
have had Jimmy Page on it (and which Pye Records still have in their
vaults) and a third which definitely had Dave on it. I know because I was
standing right next to him when he played on it. And that's the one
which was released. Jimmy Page did play tamborine on our first album.
It's very good tamborine and he's a very good musician. I'd use him if
I was producing a record.

[Page: (after Zigzag magazine brought Davies' remarks to his attention]
Fair enough -- I didn't really do that much on the Kinks' records. I
know I managed to get a couple of riffs in on their album but I can't
really remember. I know that Ray didn't really approve of my presence.
The Kinks just didn't want me around when they were recording. It was
Shel Talmy's idea. One aspect of being in the studio while potential hits
were being made was the press -- too many writers were making a big fuss
about the use of session men. Obviously I wasn't saying anything to the
press but it just leaked out . . . and that sort of thing often led to
considerable bad feeling.

For those unfamiliar with the relationship between Ray and Dave Davies, I can't imagine either of them saying anything nice about each other if it was unwarranted. Hell, I can barely imagine one of them throwing the other a life preserver if he was drowning.

FWIW, what I DO include is the following: Psycho Killer/Don't Worry About The Government/Uh-Oh, Love Comes To Town/No Compassion/Warning Sign/Thank You For Sending Me An Angel/Take Me To The River/Heaven/Memories Can't Wait/Air/I Zimbra/Once In A Lifetime/The Great Curve/Burning Down The House/And She Was/Road To Nowhere/Wild Wild Life/(Nothing But) Flowers.

All good. From their early stuff, I also really like "Found a Job" and "Love Goes to Building on a Fire."

"For No One" is my favorite Beatles song, period.

For No One might be the most underrated song of all-time. You practically never hear it on the radio or discussed, but then it's turn pops up on Revolver & you have to stop whatever it is you're doing and listen to it. Fantastic little song.

If you really think Money is the 195th best Beatles song then you should have your crack dealer reported to the Better Business Bureau because he's feeding you some real vile stuff. If they refuse to act, just mention that you also put Yesterday in the top ten.

And this is exactly what I love. Totally inessential in my book, but you're not the first whose had that reaction.

The way people respond to music (in general) and The Beatles (in particular) is endlessly fascinating to me.

Yesterday really is that good though.

Agree about Beatles for Sale - an album full of inessential covers, indeed.

With The Beatles is the best of their 'covers + originals' albums, with "You've Really Got A Hold On Me," "Please Mr. Postman," "Till There Was You," and "Money (That's What I Want)" all kicking remarkable amounts of ass. But Beatles For Sale does have "Rock And Roll Music" and "Kansas City," and if The Beatles had had the sense to include "Leave My Kitten Alone" instead of the ridiculous "Mr. Moonlight" or "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby," then I think we'd look on it a lot more favorably.

Some of the originals on the second side of that disc are very underrated, specifically "Every Little Thing" and "I Don't Want To Spoil The Party."

With the Kinks, they hired out the guitar solo because the producers or whoever really thought Dave Davies just plain couldn't hack it back in '64.

The Kinks swear to this day that Jimmy Page wasn't the guitar player on the recording.

#221 - Doc Nabbit:

All good. From their early stuff, I also really like "Found a Job" and "Love Goes to Building on a Fire."

First of all, note that I screwed up and forgot to write down "Artists Only" (I corrected in the edit). Another favorite from Buildings And Food. "Found A Job" is a GREAT song, but it's maximally effective in the album context (following "The Girls Want To Be With The Girls") and it's also long as hell, so I couldn't find room for it on an 80 minute CD. (Hell, I would've included the entire first half of Remain In Light if I had room.) I wanted to push it in, but I thought that putting more than four songs from any album would be too distortionary. Hence no "Pulled Up" or "Life During Wartime."

The drums on Her Majesty are incredible. Ringo rules!

The drums on Her Majesty are incredible. Ringo rules!

I usually re-edit "Her Majesty" back in between "Mean Mr. Mustard" and "Polythene Pam" when I do my semi-annual trawl through The Beatles' discography.

Out of nowhere, having just heard this come up on the ol' Answer iPod, I wish there was some sort of time machine available whereby I could convince whoever was responsible for inserting those ridiculous synthesizer noises into Heart's "Magic Man" to call in sick that day instead.

As Ronnie Ramone (or maybe it was Zev) once said to me..."Once musicianship creeps its way into rock n' roll...it becomes some crapshatz produced by George Martin"

Page didn't session guitar for the Kinks?

Learn something knew everyday.

Apropos of nothing, Marquee Moon is the best rock album ever. Discuss.

1) I am the walrus
2) A day in the life
3) I want to hold your hand
4) Two of us
5) Rain

For reasons still unexplained, IIRC Jimmy Page is the one playing the guitar on The Who's "I Can't Explain."

Marquee Moon is the best rock album ever. Discuss.

It's the best rock jam ever. But not the best album.

Sticky Fingers is the best album ever.

It's the best rock jam ever. But not the best album.

Sticky Fingers is the best album ever.

When I feel like listening to long-ass displays of guitar wankery, the three tracks I always put on:

-"Marquee Moon"
-"Can't You Hear Me Knocking"
-"Machine Gun"

So I'm down with your tastes. :)

Baldrick:

Your low ranking of "The Word" is blasphemy.

Doc Nabbit:

Sticky Fingers is a great album, but it's not even close to being the best album ever. Hell, it's not even among The Stones' best two albums, which are Exile (now THERE is an organically unified, perfectly flowing whole) and Let It Bleed. Too much slowpoke dross on Sticky Fingers like "Wild Horses" (everyone loves it but me, I think it's a total momentum killer in the #3 hole) and "I Got The Blues." That said, "#####," "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?," "Dead Flowers," and "Moonlight Mile" are all top-shelf Stones.

The best album ever is either Quadrophenia or Selling England By The Pound.

EDIT: Ha, I love that the cybernanny won't let me write "B*tch."

In a Playboy interview shortly before he dies, John acknowledged he thought of George as the little kid tagging along with Paul and didn't give him the type of respect he deserved.

Wait...so you actually do read it for the articles?

Quadrophenia

That's a funny way to spell Who's Next. ;)

That's a funny way to spell Who's Next. ;)

They're both very pretentious albums, but Who's Next ultimately sags under the weight of its pretensions whilst Quadrophenia miraculously manages to rise above them (perhaps even be buoyed by them). Too many ponderous stadium-rock ballads on Who's Next like "The Song Is Over," "Getting In Tune," and "Behind Blue Eyes."

"Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" are the greatest renegade conservative rock anthems of all time, though.

Speaking of Clapton, he played lead on Roger Water's Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking and also toured with Waters for much of that tour. Some say it was some of Clapton's best work -- Pete Townshend saw one show and said, "Well, I guess, it is true, after all these years, Eric Clapton really is god." Waters hired Clapton back then because when Pink Floyd was disintegrating, one of David Gilmour's parting shots was that Waters would never be able to find a guitarist as good as him.

Waters and Clapton are supposedly recording together this summer.

Greatest album ever? So we're just going to debate which is the best Pavement album then? I'll cast my vote for Slanted and Enchanted.

I have to admit, I was a little disappointed when I looked up the greatest hits collection mentioned in #105, and saw that my favorite (Xanadu) was on it - I was all ready to complain. Excluding the greatest hits, my favorites are Digital Man, Jacob's Ladder and Turn the Page.

YYZ, In the End, and The Enemy Within.

Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that By-Tor is the name of the evil one in "By-Tor and the Snow Dog", but on the next album it's the name of the hero in "The Necromancer"?

Or is that question too geeky for even this board?

Waters hired Clapton back then because when Pink Floyd was disintegrating, one of David Gilmour's parting shots was that Waters would never be able to find a guitarist as good as him.

Waters and Clapton are supposedly recording together this summer.

So, clearly Gilmour was right.

And you guys have a funny way of pronouncing "London Calling," the real best rock album ever. I could get behind Quadrophenia, however.

Greatest album ever? So we're just going to debate which is the best Pavement album then? I'll cast my vote for Slanted and Enchanted.

Oh no...you're gonna get me started talking about Pavement now. They're the best band of the 1990s in my opinion (Radiohead is the best of the '00s because their best work dates from Kid A and after). I'm as obsessed with them as I am with any other band. Slanted & Enchanted is an obligatory classic, granted, but there are too many toss-offs ("No Life Singed Her," "Two States," "Fame Throwa," "Our Singer") to rank as their best despite the presence of "Trigger Cut," "In The Mouth A Desert," "Loretta's Scars," and "Here."

No, Pavement's best album is probably Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, with nary a weak track (no, not even "Hit The Plane Down") and a clutch of their most unforgettable songs in "Silence Kit," "Gold Soundz," "Elevate Me Later," and "Fillmore Jive." Wowee Zowee is also in the discussion as well on "Beatles White Album" grounds (i.e. more Pavement = better Pavement), though it's got obvious structural flaws. I call those flaws "Extradition" and "Western Homes." It does have their single greatest recorded moment in "AT&T;" that's gotta count for something.

Though my favorite Harrisong is probably "Long, Long, Long." Brutally underrated, that one.

Savoy Truffle.

So, clearly Gilmour was right.

The Pros and Cons tour with Clapton was infinitely better than Gilmour's Floyd shows sans Waters.

Sticky Fingers is a great album, but it's not even close to being the best album ever. Hell, it's not even among The Stones' best two albums, which are Exile (now THERE is an organically unified, perfectly flowing whole) and Let It Bleed. Too much slowpoke dross on Sticky Fingers like "Wild Horses" (everyone loves it but me, I think it's a total momentum killer in the #3 hole) and "I Got The Blues." That said, "#####," "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?," "Dead Flowers," and "Moonlight Mile" are all top-shelf Stones.

Let it Bleed is overrated. Exile is incredibly consistent, but never has Sticky's high.

Brown Sugar - one of the best rockers ever. Just a rompin', tremendous song.

Sway - Highly underrated album track. It sounds like a man recovering from a hangover trying to remember what happened the night before. Terrific drumming by Charlie Watts, even by his standards.

Wild Horses - personal favorite Stones ballad.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking? - I love this song. Keith Richards guitar work is fantastic. I especially love the opening minute. It just sounds like some horny 18-year-old hanging around at a pool hall looking for action.

You Gotta Move - One of the slighter efforts, but a fine song nothing else. Sounds like somthing crawling out of the Mississippi Mud on a hot summer day. (Hmmm, apparently I have a lot of vision descriptions of these songs. That's odd for me).

##### - A great butt-kicking rocker.

I Got the Bluess - Probably the leastest of the album's songs. Still good.

Sister Morphine - A nice, semi-eerie little song. I like Keith's sense of timing with the guitar, especially when he first comes in.

Dead Flowers - A personal favorite of mine. Great country-rock songs. One of my favorite album tracks from any band.

Moonlight Mile - Another great album track. Since I've had so many visual desriptions, I'll end on one - this song sounds like a man who is in a rain forest after a big storm has just passed through, and he's found a clearing just in time to see a giant rainbow.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking might be the seventh best song on the album. I'm a Beatles fan first and foremost, but the Stones pulled off the best album ever.

I love Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, too. I also like the EP Westing by Musket and Sextant a lot, too. They're just a ridiculously cool band.

and all 8 freakin' minutes of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" (John's fault).

Are you joking? That song is hypnotic bluesy in a non-imitative way and also features probably the first use of the Moog ever (Pete Townshend says thanks). It's a great demonstration of the band's musical range (which, of course, is unparalleled).

Let it Bleed is overrated.

You're fired!

Doc Nabbit:

Exile is incredibly consistent, but never has Sticky's high.

Lies. Damnable lies. What about "Rocks Off," "Tumbling Dice," "Loving Cup," "Happy," "All Down The Line," "Shine A Light," and "Soul Survivor?" Oh, that's right, IT'S AN ENTIRE ALBUM FULL OF HIGHS. That's the problem.

There's only one song on Exile that I'd throw back, and that's "Casino Boogie."

Excluding greatest hits, my two favorites from Rush are both off 2112: "Something for Nothing" and "The Twilight Zone".

It's worse than that. Harrison offered "Isn't It A Pity?" and "Art Of Dying" to the group BACK IN 1966, during the Revolver sessions, and they said "no thanks" (though it's fair to note that he still got three songs onto that single LP - his highest-ever quotient - and they're all excellent).

Not having any song make any Beatles album is no crime. You had the two greatest rock and pop songwriters ever at the peak of their creative powers.

You're fired!

Gimme Shelter's great, but that's it. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" is the most overrated Stones song. I only like the part where Mick sings "I went down to the demonstrattion, to get my fair share of abuse." Too long, too many singing children.

Monkey Man's a real good song, but I never want to listen to it again. I'll stick with the non-country verion of Honky Tonk Woman. The title track & You Got the Silver never did much for me.

Doc Nabbit:
Exile is incredibly consistent, but never has Sticky's high.
Lies. Damnable lies. What about "Rocks Off," "Tumbling Dice," "Loving Cup," "Happy," "All Down The Line," "Shine A Light," and "Soul Survivor?" Oh, that's right, IT'S AN ENTIRE ALBUM FULL OF HIGHS. That's the problem.

There's only one song on Exile that I'd throw back, and that's "Casino Boogie."

Completely agree, though I might make the argument for Let it Bleed. I love Sticky Fingers, but Let it Bleed and Exile are jostling for 1st place.

Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that By-Tor is the name of the evil one in "By-Tor and the Snow Dog", but on the next album it's the name of the hero in "The Necromancer"?

Isn't he the same character?

No Beggars Banquet fans, I take it?

Are you joking? That song is hypnotic bluesy in a non-imitative way and also features probably the first use of the Moog ever (Pete Townshend says thanks).

I was under the impression that the first pop/rock use of the Moog was on the Monkees Pisces album, when they actually started playing their instruments.

Lies. Damnable lies. What about "Rocks Off," "Tumbling Dice," "Loving Cup," "Happy," "All Down The Line," "Shine A Light," and "Soul Survivor?" Oh, that's right, IT'S AN ENTIRE ALBUM FULL OF HIGHS.

Rocks Off is the best song. There are 3-4 songs off Sticky Fingers I'd rather listen to. Torn & Frayed, and Tumblin' Dice are also great.

And saying an album isn't as good as Sticky Fingers isn't exactly an insult, so don't get upset.

salfino:

Are you joking? That song is hypnotic bluesy in a non-imitative way and also features probably the first use of the Moog ever (Pete Townshend says thanks).

1.) The Who never used a Moog. If you're think about the synth loops on Who's Next, those were done with an ARP, and represent real pioneering work on Townshend's part - only Terry Riley in the UK was using synth loops like that. (Hence "Baba O'Riley", or "Meher Baba in the style of Terry Riley")

2.) The Moog was in use LONG before "I Want You." Harrison had used it as the basis for his 1968 experimental album Electronic Sound, and it was he who loaned it to Lennon & The Beatles for use on "I Want You." But he got the idea to start dicking around with it by listening to The Monkees, of all groups, who featured it heavily on their 1967 album Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones, Ltd. (on the songs "Daily Nightly" and "Star Collector") with Mickey Dolenz playing it.

Dead Flowers - A personal favorite of mine. Great country-rock songs. One of my favorite album tracks from any band.

Phenomenal song. Townes Van Zandt does a pretty cool version as well.

Gimme Shelter's great, but that's it. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" is the most overrated Stones song. I only like the part where Mick sings "I went down to the demonstrattion, to get my fair share of abuse." Too long, too many singing children.

Monkey Man's a real good song, but I never want to listen to it again. I'll stick with the non-country verion of Honky Tonk Woman. The title track & You Got the Silver never did much for me.

You prefer Wild Horses to Can't Always Get What You Want? That says it all. You're a ninny. A ninny, I say! There's not a weak song on Let it Bleed. Monkey Man is unbelievable.

Radiohead is the best of the '00s because their best work dates from Kid A and after

Feh. I can't stand Kid A, Amnesiac, etc. The Bends and OK Computer, that's where the good stuff is.

My favorite album ever is Tool's Lateralus. I doubt I'll get much agreement on that one here.

Lies. Damnable lies. What about "Rocks Off," "Tumbling Dice," "Loving Cup," "Happy," "All Down The Line," "Shine A Light," and "Soul Survivor?" Oh, that's right, IT'S AN ENTIRE ALBUM FULL OF HIGHS. That's the problem.

You neglected the best song on the album - "Let It Loose."

I might get in trouble for this with everyone but JC, but I think the aforementioned Ray Davies is the best modern songwriter. Now, I'd put both of those in my all-time top 10 (and I'd have to include some guys like Hugo Wolf and Franz Schubert), but I find Davies's observations of humanity to be quite insightful.

Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the fact that By-Tor is the name of the evil one in "By-Tor and the Snow Dog", but on the next album it's the name of the hero in "The Necromancer"?



Isn't he the same character?

Well, that would be the natural assumption, but in the former he's a demon from hell, and in the latter he's Prince By-Tor, who frees the people living under the shadow of the Necromancer. So if he is the same being, either he has reformed or there's some subtle cruel irony that I'm not seeing.

For No One

That and She's Leaving Home are crowning McCartney achievements. That he had that kind of sensibility at 24 years old is unbelievable. Each is incredibly moving and emotionally complex.

You neglected the best song on the album - "Let It Loose."

Damn, you're right. My bad. Not the best song on the album, but certainly up there with the rest I mentioned.

(Radiohead is the best of the '00s because their best work dates from Kid A and after).

My tendency towards music snob only goes so far; I still take The Bends and OK Computer over anything more recent.

Large chunks of both Kid A and Amnesiac do nothing at all for me. I love the hypnotic quality of the numbers that I manage to connect with, esp. "How To Disappear Completely" and "Pyramid Song."

Szymborski:

I might get in trouble for this with everyone but JC, but I think the aforementioned Ray Davies is the best modern songwriter. Now, I'd put both of those in my all-time top 10 (and I'd have to include some guys like Hugo Wolf and Franz Schubert), but I find Davies's observations of humanity to be quite insightful.

The best Kinks song ever, both in terms of melody and heartbreaking lyrical observation, is "Do You Remember, Walter?" And their best album is clearly The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society.

Discuss.

but I think the aforementioned Ray Davies is the best modern songwriter. Now, I'd put both of those in my all-time top 10 (and I'd have to include some guys like Hugo Wolf and Franz Schubert), but I find Davies's observations of humanity to be quite insightful.

Check out his new solo album, Working Man's Cafe -- it is his best work in decades.

The best Kinks song ever, both in terms of melody and heartbreaking lyrical observation, is "Do You Remember, Walter?" And their best album is clearly The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society.

Discuss.

Tough to argue with, but I think some of the genius to which D-Zim alludes is found in the real different emotions/themes Davies was able, so effortlessly, to conjure. As an alternative to your suggestions, think of, for instance, Muswell Hillbillies and "Oklahoma, USA" respectively.

I think I'd have left "Turd On The Run" in addition to "I Just Want To See His Face," "Casino Boogie," and maybe "Sweet Virginia" on the cutting room floor. Of course there's more than one LP worth of good-to-great material - even most of the filler is worth hearing - on there so I'm not really complaining.

Feh. I can't stand Kid A, Amnesiac, etc. The Bends and OK Computer, that's where the good stuff is.

My favorite album ever is Tool's Lateralus. I doubt I'll get much agreement on that one here.

I'm with you on OK Computer, but Kid A was very strong as well. The opening 5 notes of "Everything in its Right Place" are iconic.

And while Lateralus is excellent, I think Tool peaked with Aenima. H. is probably one of my top 10 favorite songs of all time, and even though a lot of the songs from it were overexposed, they still stand up to repeated listening.

The best album ever is either Quadrophenia or Selling England By The Pound.

Quadrophenia is as uneven as any double album, even the better ones. "Revolver" is probably the best rock album ever. "Highway 61 Revisited" is right there. But we're limiting ourselves to albums that were great and popular, almost by definition. Even popular in some college/alt way. But there's a lot of great stuff that no one plays anywhere: Big Star, for example.

"This Year's Model" is as good a rock album as there ever was, but it's too derivative to make the cut, probably.

Plastic Ono Band actually might be the best rock album of the 1970s. All Things Must Pass is half filler, not a third. And it's too set in its time, IMO. I'll take Band on the Run over ATMP.

Can't forget Pet Sounds, which does have some filler. Who's Next is perfect -- the Double Album tightened to one after the group abandoned the project.

Van Morrison "Moondance," but that's not really a rock album.

"Born to Run" might be the best album of the '70s. But Hunky Dory is right there. So is London Calling (if only it wasn't a double album, because there are four or five songs that aren't up to par). And what about "What's Going On"? Rock album? Then you have to consider Talking Book and Innervisions.

The best album ever is either Quadrophenia or Selling England By The Pound.

Quadrophenia

That's a funny way to spell Who's Next. ;)

and that's an even funnier way to spell London Calling.

Lies. Damnable lies. What about "Rocks Off," "Tumbling Dice," "Loving Cup," "Happy," "All Down The Line," "Shine A Light," and "Soul Survivor?" Oh, that's right, IT'S AN ENTIRE ALBUM FULL OF HIGHS. That's the problem.

One of the great things about the Creem Anthology is the scathing review of Exile by Lester Bangs. Not that I agree. But it's so interesting to see someone slash something so iconic with snobs like me.

Black and Blue is the most underrated Stones album and one of the most underrated ever, along with Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy.

Let it Bleed is overrated. Exile is incredibly consistent, but never has Sticky's high.

I totally agree with this. Exile is a terrific album, but its best moments don't hold a candle to the best songs in Sticky Fingers.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking? - I love this song. Keith Richards guitar work is fantastic. I especially love the opening minute. It just sounds like some horny 18-year-old hanging around at a pool hall looking for action.

The ending guitar solo in that song is by the vastly underrated Mick Taylor - good stuff.

Tough to argue with, but I think some of the genius to which D-Zim alludes is found in the real different emotions/themes Davies was able, so effortlessly, to conjure.

Yup. Davies is an amazing observer of humanity. I don't think anyone can write something more perfect than Waterloo Sunset.

Not that he couldn't write stinkers, too - his discography looks a lot better if you pretend a couple of albums in the mid-70s didn't exist. Neo-vaudeville is kind of an odd choice for a rock band to go towards.

"Who's Next" is the right answer. 9 songs, 6 of them classics, the other 3 somewhat slight but still enjoyable, esp. in context.

"Born To Run" comes damn close though. If I liked "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out" better or thought that putting both "Backstreets" and "Jungleland" on there wasn't overkill I might have put that album on top instead.

So if he is the same being, either he has reformed

I thought he was transformed. Peart once referred to By-tor as being both good and evil, like all of us, so I assumed it was the same character.

The ending guitar solo in that song is by the vastly underrated Mick Taylor - good stuff.

Mick Taylor has my favorite tone of any guitarist except for maybe Hendrix's later sound on the Band of Gypsys albums. He didn't even place on Rolling Stone's 100 best guitarists list - glaring omission, IMO.

With the Kinks, they hired out the guitar solo because the producers or whoever really thought Dave Davies just plain couldn't hack it back in '64. That's something you don't see everyday.

It was common in Los Angeles during that time. LA producers like Terry Melcher had studio musicians on speed dial. If they didn't think someone was pulling his weight, poof, they called Glen Campbell.

The best Kinks song ever, both in terms of melody and heartbreaking lyrical observation, is "Do You Remember, Walter?" And their best album is clearly The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society.

Discuss.

The latter assertion is a no-brainer. I have so many favorite Kinks songs it isn't possible to choose. I guess "Do You Remember, Walter?" is right up there.

I thought he was transformed. Peart once referred to By-tor as being both good and evil, like all of us, so I assumed it was the same character.

I suppose that fits.

Mick Taylor has my favorite tone of any guitarist except for maybe Hendrix's later sound on the Band of Gypsys albums. He didn't even place on Rolling Stone's 100 best guitarists list - glaring omission, IMO.

Taylor is my favorite guitar player from the early '70's, much more so than Jimmy Page. That Rolling Stone list was sort of a joke so I'm not surprised by his omission. If I remember correctly RS had Eddie Van Halen as the 70th best guitarist; no way.

salfino:

Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy.

Excellent taste. Captain Fantastic is hugely underrated, but no moreso than most/all of Elton John's early '70s albums. People (or at least people my age...I'm 27) dismiss him now as a pop sludgemeister, but that run from Elton John to Honky Chateau is toweringly impressive. Tumbleweed Connection is my choice for the most underrated Elton John album: loved by fans but you'll never find any of its songs on a greatest hits, even though "Country Comfort," "Amoreena," "Where To Now, St. Peter?" and "Burn Down The Mission" are four of his finest songs.

And their best album is clearly The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society.

I can't really disagree, but Arthur was damn good also. As for "both in terms of melody and heartbreaking lyrical observation," Don't Forget To Dance is very good.

Andere:

The latter assertion is a no-brainer.

Well, I dunno about that. Despite my initial assertion, Face To Face runs it very close as an album. I'd say it's only slightly less brilliant, and not because it's less consistent (it's MORE consistent, actually) but rather because the highs of Village Green are dizzyingly high.

Page was a master of the riff. Good Lord does Zep have a ridiculous catalog of monster riffs. That's hard to duplicate, and he was lacking in many other areas of rock guitar.

I think this is why most bands who cite (or should cite) LZ as their chief antecedent are appallingly bad.

People (or at least people my age...I'm 27) dismiss him now as a pop sludgemeister,

People my age [41] dismiss him as a pop sludgemeister. If we're gonna mention the hell that is his "music", I'm gonna appeal for "You're Living All Over Me" as a great rock album.

RE: discussions of Springsteen.

Born To Run is a lovely album, but a little too slick for my tastes. (I adore Roy Bittan, however, and anyone who does needs to check out David Bowie's Station To Station where he OWNS "TVC-15" and "Word On A Wing.") The best Springsteen era (or the one I'm most interested in, at least) is the 1972-1974 Asbury Park/E Street Shuffle period. Not only are the outtakes every bit as good as the songs that made the cut ("Santa Ana," "Evacuation Of The West," "The Fever," "Zero & Blind Terry," "Seaside Bar Song," etc.), the live shows from that period were stunningly energetic and varied. I'm not the biggest Springsteen fan on the planet (though I have all his work from 1972-1995 plus the boxed sets), but I collect concert recordings from that era religiously. Because frankly, they're quasi-religious phenomena.

Elton John is like a McCartney with no Lennon as a counterweight. Many great bands seem to have a dynamic sorta like that.

For reasons still unexplained, IIRC Jimmy Page is the one playing the guitar on The Who's "I Can't Explain."

It's my understanding that this is also incorrect.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking? - I love this song. Keith Richards guitar work is fantastic

It is (I'm pretty sure that the opening licks are Keith) but it's Mick who carries out the extended outro, I think.

Springsteen doesn't interest me at all, though with you Esoteric, I find that early stuff better than the later stuff. Andere: I've heard the same is you re the guitar on "Can't Explain," and quite honestly it sounds like Townshend.

JC in DC:

People my age [41] dismiss him as a pop sludgemeister. If we're gonna mention the hell that is his "music", I'm gonna appeal for "You're Living All Over Me" as a great rock album.

This is the sort of thing that could only be written by someone unfamiliar with his remarkably thoughtful, bluesy/rock/balladeering early work. On his first four albums or so Elton John combined the most badass honky-tonk barrelhouse rock piano playing with touching and non-glurgey ballads, clever pop assays, country & western pastiches, and prog-rock epics into a stunningly NEW sounding type of music. Stunning precisely because of the fact that at the time (the early '70s) most of these styles had already been attempted already. But damned if John and Taupin didn't find a way to make something new out of them. Check out the country-soul fusion of "Country Comforts" for a pleasant surprise.

The best Springsteen era (or the one I'm most interested in, at least) is the 1972-1974 Asbury Park/E Street Shuffle period.

He's trying too hard to jam too many words and images into one song on those records, as if he were either Bob Dylan or someone at a Policy Debate Camp. I like the band's sound though, and there are some undeniable classics on both records.

The only Springsteen I can listen to is Nebraska. I really like that album.

This is the sort of thing that could only be written by someone unfamiliar with his incredibly thoughtful, bluesy/rock/balladeering early work.

Or, by someone familiar with his work who doesn't like it, finding it dull and unimaginative? My brother was a huge EJ and Springsteen fan, and I couldn't take any of it. It's never done a thing for me. I don't like his voice or his honky-tonk piano. Sorry - I wish I could attribute to ignorance.

Answer Guy:

He's trying too hard to jam too many words and images into one song on those records, as if he were either Bob Dylan or someone at a Policy Debate Camp. I like the band's sound though, and there are some undeniable classics on both records.

I agree that his lyrics are all over the place during that era, but not in a bad way. "Blinded By The Light" may be a mess, but it's one hell of an ENGAGING mess, and "Spirit In The Night" is quite the cohesive little shaggy-dog story. He was already beginning to sort out his imagery by The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle, and by the time of Darkness On The Edge Of Town I think he had already gotten too streamlined into shorthand lyrical cliches.

By the way, am I the ONLY person in the world who realizes that "Jungleland" is obviously the rock music version of West Side Story? I keep mentioning this to Springsteen fans, and they always dismiss it. But come on...it's right there in the lyrics!

JC:

Or, by someone familiar with his work who doesn't like it, finding it dull and unimaginative?

Fair enough, then. Just a difference in tastes, I guess.