I submitted this, and it apparently won't make it, so I'll say it again:

That was one hellacious run, Jimmy. Games 6 and 7 of the 2004 NLCS were special.

Now we get payroll flexibility! That's not quite so special.

Is Freese anything?
Or is this just a salary dump

Who is the Cardinals' center fielder now?

So the Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds core of the team is no more.

The last four years: age, games played, and OPS+:

34 153 170
35 142 137
36 110 110
37 117 088

Is there anything left in the tank?

(As a Hall of Merit voter, I'll say that he will be a candidate to take seriously, based on the career he's already had.)

Sparkles and I aim to please, NTN.

Greg, I'm cross posting this from another thread:
Freese has his defenders in the online community - I'm not one of 'em. He's been a good minor leaguer (and finished out his college career well) with patience and pop - but has also been old for his leagues and lacks range at third. His bat is unlikely to play at first, leaving a possible move behind the plate (which I don't think will happen, but I wouldn't know) as his best shot at relevance.
Sickels, IIRC, gave him a C+; BA didn't name him to their top 10. Not everyone is as concerned with his range at third as I am, by the way.

EDIT: More on Freese and the deal is here (no RR). Scout.com named him the Pads #10 prospect.

I was very surprised that Edmonds wasn't on the "Mitchell List".
Not because I believed that he used PEDs, but because everyone else always suggested he used them.
"Look at his numbers when he joined McGwire in St. Louis! It's so obvious! Five consecutive seasons of producing ever-increasing career high OPS+, all while over the age of 30!"

He's probably data point #1 for "Look at the numbers!" being ########.

A contributing factor last year was that Edmonds was forced to basically sit on a couch for the entire offseason after surgery. The last two seasons look like just a precipitous decline, and they may be that, but Edmonds showed some glimpses of ability in the middle of '06, bookended by the shoulder injuries and post-concussion syndrome.

He's not a good bet to be a very good player again, but there's a chance that he rebounds a bit, and I'd say a repeat of his '07 performance is an absolute worst-case scenario for him.

Sparkles and I aim to please, NTN.

Heh.... actually, I found this SD U-T article while checking what they had to say about the Cameron story, before I even checked the comments of the Cameron trade thread.

The Padres/Cards sure took care of my query quickly. Was everyone waiting on the Mitchell Report's results to go ahead and make trades today or something?

I was very surprised that Edmonds wasn't on the "Mitchell List".
Not because I believed that he used PEDs, but because everyone else always suggested he used them.
"Look at his numbers when he joined McGwire in St. Louis! It's so obvious! Five consecutive seasons of producing ever-increasing career high OPS+, all while over the age of 30!"

He's probably data point #1 for "Look at the numbers!" being ########.

His absence from the report only means that he didn't buy his stuff from Radomski.

Look at his numbers when he joined McGwire in St. Louis!

Edmonds was traded in late March 2000, and he hit from Day One in St. Louis. If he used steroids, then I'd guess he started before joining the Cardinals.

Well, looks like I have a new team to hate.

STL Post-Dispatch: Cards have deal in place to trade Edmonds

The teams are expected to announce the deal today, pending approval by the commissioner’s office. Such approval is typically only a formality, but is required when cash considerations of more than $1 million are involved in a trade.
...
Trading Edmonds allows the club greater fiscal flexibility as it intensifies a search for additional starting pitching.

Mozeliak and Padres general Kevin Towers intensified talks Friday afternoon after talks broke down between the Padres and free agent center fielder Mike Cameron.
...
The Cardinals’ willingness to eat a portion of Edmonds’ contract while receiving a player unlikely to impact next season’s major-league roster suggests the franchise’s shift from a renovation to reconstruction.

His absence from the report only means that he didn't buy his stuff from Radomski.

Neither did Brian Roberts or Jack Cust.

But I agree with your point.

Is there anything left in the <strike>tank</strike> syringe?

Fixed.

Edmonds must finally be off the juice.

darn, beaten to it.

Incidentally, I don't think many outsiders can appreciate just how upsetting this is to Cardinals fans. Last offseason, with Edmonds coming off the post-concussion syndrome and heading in to surgery, Walt made what was objectively one of his worst moves ever, giving Jim a sizeable two year contract rather than exercising his team option. It came out that the contract offer was made largely at the behest of DeWitt, and most of us came to accept that it was a classy move on the organization's part, to reward both the fans and the guy who had been an underpaid superstar and fan favorite with a chance to play out his career in St. Louis.

Now that they've decided the contract was a mistake that needs to be undone, we're forced to evaluate the organization's handling of Edmonds objectively again. Turns out they viewed him as a commodity all along, misjudged his value, and handed out an inexplicable contract that they later scrambled to get rid of. Given that the savings seem likely to go towards whomever they find in the first round the next two years who is willing to sign below slot, there is nothing to like about this.

Look at his numbers when he joined McGwire in St. Louis!


Edmonds was traded in late March 2000, and he hit from Day One in St. Louis. If he used steroids, then I'd guess he started before joining the Cardinals

Hmm, shoulder injury in 1999 causes him to only play 55 sub-optimal games. Comes back after that offseason and plays at a level he never played at before and does it for about 6 seasons all in at an age that players in the pre-steroid era were declining.

Agree, a botched handling of one of the most popular Cards ever. Too bad his career came down to this - he was a great player for many years in STL, and will be missed.

IIRC, Pujols is now the longest tenured Cardinal.

Incidentally, I don't think many outsiders can appreciate just how upsetting this is to Cardinals fans.

I'm a Cardinals fan, and not at all upset. Edmonds can no longer really cover CF, and SD has a large one, plus his hitting has declined quite a bit. He could be a below average hitting RF by Spring 2009.

I'm a Cardinals fan, and not at all upset. Edmonds can no longer really cover CF, and SD has a large one, plus his hitting has declined quite a bit. He could be a below average hitting RF by Spring 2009.

All true, and as a baseball move this makes some sense. But JEd meant a lot to most Cards fans, and so this is an emotional loss. For me, at least. A lot of my favorite baseball memories are plays by Jimmy, and not seeing him in red - and seeing him in the Pods uni - is going to hurt.

Who is the Cardinals' center fielder now?

Ankiel, most likely.

I'm a Cardinals fan, and not at all upset.

Like Guts said, it's a defensible move judged as a cost/benefit analysis. But if you follow the Cards, and it doesn't sadden you at least a little to see Edmonds move on, then, I gotta say, it doesn't sound like you're much of a fan. Pujols, McGwire, Ozzie...all the great players that I've seen in a Cardinals uniform, but none of them have been as purely enjoyable to watch play as Edmonds was.

Thanks for everything, Jimmy. Good luck out there.

SOSD pulled the story at the top of the link.

No, the SD U-T story is still there... tried it in both FireFox and IE just now to make sure.

A lot of my favorite baseball memories are plays by Jimmy, and not seeing him in red - and seeing him in the Pods uni - is going to hurt.

You have got to be kidding me. I like Edmonds and what he did as a Cardinal as much as anyone. But, in 2008, the only thing more hurtful than seeing him in a Pods uni would be seeing him in red.

Given that the savings seem likely to go towards whomever they find in the first round the next two years who is willing to sign below slot, there is nothing to like about this.

It seems unlikely that the money they save on this deal is going to be significantly more than they just squandered on Izturis, who is a worse player than Brendan Ryan. And if the descriptions listed above are accurate, Freese doesn't sound like much of anything. The team's not competing in 2008 anyway--and whatever money they do end up saving on this deal is probably going to be blown on some useless retread or go straight to the RNC. I fail to see how this makes the Cardinals a better team in 2008, or in the future.

whatever money they do end up saving on this deal is probably going... straight to the RNC

F######-A. I didn't think my opinion of this trade could get worse. Congratulations, Daniel.

Who is the Cardinals' center fielder now?

Rasmus will probably get a shot at the job in S-T, but I don't think he's ready. Schumaker's probably the fallback position, although Ankiel could see some time there as well.

This is clearly a "so long, it's been good to know you" kind of deal. Freese's upside is probably something like Garrett Atkins; I don't think he's going to be quite as good, though.

-- MWE

Man, I remember when Edmonds was a good-hitting CF known for his D. Once he went to the Cards he started pounding the ball like nothing. Given who he was playing with it's awfully suspicious, but I still am having trouble believing that roids help a guy quite that much. I have no doubt they help, otherwise they wouldn't be doing them, but ...

Well its not Dan Haren, but could I handle 400 ab's from Jimmy. Interesting that Edmonds doesn't even rate a "B" with elias anymore.

Welcome home Jim.

As somebody who has a Jim Edmonds jersey, it's gotten kind of sad to see him like this.

Given who he was playing with it's awfully suspicious, but I still am having trouble believing that roids help a guy quite that much. I have no doubt they help, otherwise they wouldn't be doing them, but ...

Some people never learn. Did you pay any attention to any of the names? Most of them read like a who's who of AAA All-Star game rosters.

Looking at statistics to try and determine what players used PEDs? Have fun, what a pointless exercise. Tell me where the spike appears in Cody McKay's stat line.

Neither did Brian Roberts or Jack Cust.

True, but the evidence against the two of them is pretty flimsy.

Maybe the Cards will go after Pierre. Ha!

I'm awfully saddened by this, even though it was completely expected, and the smart move to make (which has been done rarely this offseason). Edmonds is responsible for some of the biggest thrills for Cardinal fans over the last decade, he'll be missed.

I agree with DCW3 and greenback that I don't expect the cost savings to be put to improving the ballclub at all.

As a Card fan, Edmonds was really fun to watch hit. I love his mammoth all-or-nothing uppercut rip, and some of his swings-and-resulting-homers have been the most beautiful I've seen. That swing, follow through, and magnificent arc of the ball will be missed.

I know that Cub fans hate Edmonds---I do love the "Lassie" nickname---and he is one of the most melodramatic players out there (both as a hitter and fielder), but I'm going to miss that, too.

I thought he had retired.

Somewhat related to this is that Geoff Jenkins's agent was saying he was in serious talks with the Padres and the Phillies. With Edmonds now on the Padres, the Favre clone may soon be in Philadelphia.

Geoff Jenkins's agent was saying he was in serious talks with the Padres and the Phillies. With Edmonds now on the Padres, the Favre clone may soon be in Philadelphia.

The Padres can still use another outfield regular to go with Edmonds and Giles.

-- MWE

I thought Milton Bradley had returned to the Padres, but now I see he's going to be on the Rangers(!)

The Padres can still use another outfield regular to go with Edmonds and Giles.

three lefty outfielders ..

Edmonds fills the need for another lefty in the lineup, I am kind of hoping the next outfielder is a righty.

(As a Hall of Merit voter, I'll say that he will be a candidate to take seriously, based on the career he's already had.)

Now I'm a peak over career kind of guy and I'll agree that Edmonds deserves "serious consideration" (whatever we mean when we say that). But just 1814 games played to this point is quite light. Did you guys put in Puckett? Because, to date, they're fairly similar careers (Edmonds definitely has the edge). A lot of it comes down to whether you believe Edmonds really was a top defensive CF. If so, then he was almost certainly one of the most valuable player in baseball for those 5 years and damn, damn good for another 5-6. I think you guys did elect Dick Allen and it's hard to think that Edmonds (or probably Puckett) was less valuable after positional and defense adjustments.

Arguing against myself, Edmonds by now must be within the top 10 CF of all time and I tend to thinking that by this point, the top 10 at each position deserves enshrinement. (Not as an "automatic induction" criterion but as "unless there's a big gap between, say, #10 and #9, then almost certainly this guy belongs.)

You have got to be kidding me. I like Edmonds and what he did as a Cardinal as much as anyone. But, in 2008, the only thing more hurtful than seeing him in a Pods uni would be seeing him in red.

Not really. 2008 is already in the tank, and he's off the books for 2009, so why not keep him and give Jim a proper sendoff? He'll probably miss half the season again anyway, and Rasmus isn't ready, so it's not like he'd be blocking anyone. Unless you count Skipper as a prospect.

I wonder if the Cardinals are going to give much consideration to retiring Edmonds's number once he retires. I could understand it if they had a policy of only retiring the numbers of players who'd gone into the Hall of Fame as a Cardinals, but they've retired Boyer's number, which sort of opens the floodgates. And surely Edmonds is more deserving of having his number retired than Bruce Friggin' Sutter. (Of course, I doubt they would have honored Sutter if his number hadn't already been retired for Robinson, but that's another issue.)

When Edmonds first came up with the Angels, I didn't think much of him. He was an outfielder without power or speed. He took some walks, but not a ton, and struck out a lot. In 1993 in the PCL he hit 315/385/492, nothing special given the league, with 9 homers in 356 at bats. I thought he he was a corner outfielder only, and if a .280/15 HR year was an optimistic forecast, he looked to be a below average one or a 4th outfielder. His 1994 rookie season (273/343/377) did nothing to change my mind. I was pissed that the Angels traded Chad Curtis in the offseason and handed Edmonds the CF job, because I liked Curtis and didn't think Jim had the speed for center.

Then 1995 happened. All of a sudden he's hitting for average and power and making incredible catches. At first I thought it was a fluke, but he got even better as the season wore on and I became a believer. We had a good defensive centerfielder, despite not being a basestealer, who could hit and hit with power. In other words, the second coming of Fred Lynn.

Now that he's near the end of his career, He still does look a lot like Lynn. He gave the Angels some good years. Both players had their best years with another team, Lynn did it before his Angel career and Edmonds after. And both will play their age 38 season with the San Diego Padres.

Edmonds has the edge on Lynn in career numbers, but when you adjust for era they are closer, 133 OPS+ vs 129. He's got the edge in homers 362-306, Lynn has the edge in hits 1960-1801, Edmonds is ahead by 10 RBI. If this is the end for Jim (his only friend, the end) he'll fall short of numbers that would put him in the HOF, and join Lynn in the Hall of the very good.

Maybe the Cards will go after Pierre. Ha!

if this happens its over with me and the cards.

I haven't RTFT, so I apologize if I'm repeating here, but I think it's interesting that Edmonds career has seemingly come to a crashing halt. Not that we don't expect old players to eventually become crappy, but the guy has gone from very good to good to deadweight in the last 3 years, it seems. The reason I bring this up is that it reminds me of the sudden end to Bernie's career since these two were always being compared (by us in this community at least). So, now that it's almost all said and done...who DID end up having the greater career? Bernie or Jim?

Walt (#40): We haven't put Puckett in, and I don't vote for him myself, but Puckett is in the high backlog and has a pretty good change of HoM election in 2009 or 2010. I haven't really run the case for Edmonds, and I don't know whether or not I would support him, but it's certainly worth exploring. Perhaps the question in #45 would be a place to start.

#45, i only have personal observation to go on, but i think the concussion finished him. ever seen a clip of that? it was bad. it would haved ended other players careers then and there.

Well, looks like I have a new team to hate.

You can still hate the Cardinals. Really, it's easy!

A cheap quick glance - the 7 best OPS+ of each:

Edmonds 170 160 158 149 146 137 137
Williams 160 149 147 141 140 138 131
Puckett 152 141 138 132 131 130 129

It's more complicated than that, of course, including that Puckett played more games per season.

I have read the Padres may try Chase Headley in the OF. In the early 00s, the Padres were popping off a lot about their prospects, and BPro called them a "tidal wave" about to tsunami the NL West. They were yapping about Xavier Nady, Sean Burroughs, Taggart Bozeid, Jake Gautreau, Freddy Guzman, and then Josh Barfield, plus Jake Peavy, Dennis Tankersley, Oliver Perez, and Ben Howard.

Towers has been scrambling ever since, and has done a good job of it--but Edmonds is just the latest chapter in the scramble. I do think Edmonds has a little bounce-back left.