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It's painful to watch. He has nothing.
It'd be interesting to see if he'd be able to at least get by a bit better back in the AL just on account of experience and knowing the hitters from all his years there. If you are forced to try to get by on squat for stuff, I'd think it'd help to have a career's worth of knowledge of the hitters (and a career's worth of confidence) instead of one season to go on (and a season that was pretty so-so, at that).
For all the bad things that have happened to Mike Hampton over the years, somebody signing a FA pitcher to an even more debacular contract may be the only good news he's had in a long, long time. He should send Sabean a bottle of something good.
I didn't see it (I was at the White Sox-Orioles game, actually), but usually it's one of two things: 1) ball goes over CFer's head, rolls all the way to triangle-shaped "Triples Alley" at 420 foot marker, or 2) goes over RFer's head, hits brick wall, bounces away from fielders.
Flown in from the Tuzla airport special, just for the occasion!
You made your bed Sabean, lie in it.
Which might -- might -- just barely outscore their opponents.
In Barry Zito's starts.
Ba-dum-bump.
There should be an unabled list for guys who are just unable to do anything worthwhile for weeks at a time.
I agree. Once they have another 5th starter back, they should stash him on the DL for as long as possible.
Also, what other ways are there out of this contract if it becomes apparent its a huge waste of money, lets say by the end of this season. Can they buy him out and ask him to retire or something? Bash his arm while he's asleep? etc
Of course, 1972 was a shortened season. So even though three NL teams fell short of 523 that year, only one team, the Padres, actually scored at a slower pace than that. They scored just 488 runs in 153 games, which would translate into 517 runs in 162. Blech.
And the 1971 Padres were worse - 486 runs in 161 games.
The "inability to perform" list? That's an excuse that could get more and more common in the future.
Does anyone else think he's hoping the Giants release him so he can tour with Radiohead?
Yes.
It doesn't sound like Brian Bruney's going to be pitching any more this year. I bet Brandon Medders won't be far behind, either. They can be a supergroup - the next Cream, perhaps.
I mean, so far he's lost 5 straight starts. So if he goes 0-193 during the remainder of the time he's under contract, they probably would want to buy out that extra year. On the other hand, if he only loses 12 games a year, like he did from 2003 through 2007, he might be worth the $18 million in 2014.
And I just hope and pray that a certain Venezuelan keeps his elbow and shoulder very healthy for the next several years, so Mr. Sabean can retain that distinction.
Oh, a Venezuelan PITCHER? Hmm...yes, keep praying.
by the way, using the numbers at Cot's Contracts, and pro-rating what Zito has made so far this season, I calculate that the Giants still owe him a minimum of $112 million going forward from today.
Good thing Bonds' chase of Aaron is drawing the fans!
(whisper whisper)
What? Really?
The Giants are ######.
Nah, he wants to tour with Jack Johnson.
At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up touring with Dr. James Andrews.
No, the frustrating thing is that by all accounts Zito is fully healthy... he's just lost both velocity and movement on the fastball and command of his curve. Right now all he can do is throw straight 82mph fastballs, off of which opposing hitters have no trouble hitting line drives.
Fight on Barry. Fight on!
Honestly, I don't think that there's much any pitching coach can do for Zito right now except maybe try to teach him a new pitch. When he was younger, he had far greater elasticity that gave him superior movement. Now in his 30s (or will be in a few weeks), he no longer can generate the type of movement that once made him dominant.
I don't know... maybe see if he can figure out the knuckleball. He has a consistent, fluid motion with fairly good endurance. Plus it would be cool to see a lefty master the knuckleball--I can't remember there being a good knuckleball lefty since Wilbur Wood.
But Zito's days of being able to beat major league hitters with a 82mph four-seamer and a 12-6 curve with bite are over.
There were never any days that Zito beat major league hitters with a 82 mph four seamer
As recently as 2005 his avg fastball was 87 MPH, and he has lost about 1 mph per year since then.
Maybe he's just as good on 2 days rest as he is on 4 days rest. If so, they could get their money's worth out of him as an innings-eater, by having him start 65 games a year.
No way that his fastball averaged 87mph in 2005. He seldom topped 85mph the year he was with the Rivercats.
2005: 87.3
2006: 85.8
2007: 84.5
2008: 83.7
That makes sense: you'd take a bad pitching coach with a track-record of sucking over a good pitching coach with a track record of success.
The Scouting Notebook for both 04 & 05, (Published by sporting news with Stats Inc) also says high 80's, topping out at 89.
Zito has never had success throwing 82 mph fastballs in his past. He was 5 MPH faster than that during his successful years.
it would be hard to be worse
Simply not an accurate assessment.
I wonder if Zito has too much pride to accept* a demotion to the PCL? He obviously cannot get the job done in the majors, now. He will make the same money if he pitches for Fresno. Perhaps he can learn to throw the knuckleball; or if it is all a matter of confidence, maybe Zito can get some wins in AAA and get his head right.
*It's my understanding that any player with 5 or more years of major league service time can refuse a demotion. However, it is also my understanding that if the player agrees, any major leaguer can be sent down for as long as it takes to work things out.
thanks shoewizard
Rick Peterson was great with the Oakland A's. I know that.* When the Mets hired Art Howe, they wanted Peterson, too, and paid him big money to come along. Then, when the Mets fired Howe, they kept Peterson. That's his case for success....
What in the world is Righetti's case for success? You mean the great work he did with Joe Nathan? Not enough.... okay, the great work he did with Jeremy Accardo? Or David Aardsma? Or Jerome Williams? Tim Lincecum, so far, has survived Rags, but has Righetti done much for Matt Cain or Brad Hennessy or Kevin Correia or (of course) Barry Zito? I'm not seeing it. I don't see how Rags keeps his job.
* That's not simply based on the great success his pitchers had. Or on the Big 3. It's also based on what pitchers who came in from other organizations said about Peterson.
What's the point? I mean, is there seriously any difference between sending Zito down the AAA and just letting him play in the majors? Is it because run support might exist down in AAA?
At what point do the Giants consider taking out a contract on Zito's life?
Ah, I wouldn't worry yet; Zambrano looks terrific in the early going.
Nah, he wants to tour with Jack Johnson.
Well, the way he's been getting cuffed around of late, he'd be right at home. Oh, I see. Not THAT Jack Johnson.
Perhaps a Mann Act conviction would be less painful than the humiliation he's dealing with these days...
If you noticed what I quoted, it was clear that I objected to your characterization of Rags, not Peterson.
Early in his tenure, Righetti has gotten some decent seasons out of pitchers who had absolutely nothing (Estes, Reuter, Ortiz, etc.) That he couldn't get anything out of a Jerome Williams or Kurt Ainsworth doesn't really tell us anything. Nathan improved under Righetti, as did Accardo--it's not the pitching coach's fault that Sabean traded away promising young arms.
I'm not sure what the beef is about Hennessey and Correia... both have gotten off to rocky starts this April, but prior to this season have shown steady progress under Righetti. Hennessey has adapted to being a full-time reliever quite well last year (he was a starting pitcher throughout his minor league career). Likewise, Correia has developed into an above-average reliever and is only starting because Lowry got hurt.
Finally, it's beyond premature to criticize Righetti over Matt Cain. In 2006 and 2007 he pitched ~200 innings at the major league level as a 21 and 22 year-old, and is still healthy. That in itself is an achievement (to say nothing of above-average ERA+, including 122 last year). Plus he persevered through a total lack of offensive, defensive, and bullpen support. He's had a disappointing April, but that's just one bad month.
You seem to be putting a lot of weight on four weeks of baseball, which is silly considering that this is Righetti's 9th season as Giants pitching coach. Let's see how the season unfolds before declaring him a disaster on account of Hennessey (13.7 IP), Correia (26 IP), and Matt Cain (27.3 IP). Do you not understand the concept of sample size?
The contract is longer than the median tenure for GMs, a GM may simply roll the dice, if it works great, if not? Well the back end is someone else's problem.
Asymmetric payoffs are a problem with management in all industries.
Now back to baseball:
I can understand a guy losing a little off the fastball, but what in the name of Frank Tanana happened to Zito's curveball? It's completely gone. Not only is it no longer the 12-to-6 killer it used to be, but it isn't even major league caliber anymore. He throws that borderline embarrassing old-school turnover to righties that he tries to paint the outside corner with but can't command and the rest of his repertoire is either batting practice or a series of balls.
Not sure how serious the suggestions were, but it's going to be tough for him to become Tom Candiotti, what with the wrap-around, cuff motion. There's an awful long way from that to the shot-put style you need to throw a solid knuckler.
Also, the problem with his fastball isn't so much the loss of velocity, but the loss of movement. I disagree vigorously that he ever consistently threw his fastball in the high 80s in his first few years in the majors--more like low-to-mid 80s. But regardless, it was a below-average (velocity-wise) fastball. Yet what made it an effective weapon against major league hitters was subtle motion that he was able to put on the tail-end of it. If he was throwing harder in his final years in Oakland, then maybe he tried to compensate for the loss of movement with a few mph.
In any event, when he was in Sacramento in 2000, one of the things that set him apart from other young pitchers (other than the curve) is that he seldom threw as hard as he probably could. In clutch situations, he would often slow down his fastball (not a changeup), whereas most young pitchers are apt to overthrow when the intensity increases. From a very young age he seemed to understand how to mix speeds. That he is unable to do this as well at 30 as he did in his early 20s suggests that it's something physical and its unlikely that he'll ever regain the repertoire that originally made him successful.
Why?
If he could control his curveball and regained movement on his fastball, then he could be successful at the velocity that he's throwing at.
Well, if it's physical, it could be fixed by surgery. If I'm SF, I'm certainly HOPING he needs surgery of some sort.
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