Off the record, eh? What did they say? How many did you talk to? Or do you just know?

I agree with him about the $20M though; I don't think Manny is worth that, even with the usual salary inflation.

"If that is not a lie as I situate on the common, what claim has your piety on my deference?"

Nicely played, WJ.

CHB could have made his point without being a dick. but then, dick is as dick does.

the Sox made an announcement that Manny could not play in the biggest game of the season.

Or at least the game they were playing tonight.

The parallels between Manny and a really hot but mentally unstable woman are numerous; CHB just seems like the parent of someone Manny dissed on Myspace.

But it was THE BIGGEST GAME OF THE SEASON! Probably the biggest game ever in history.

CHB is greasing the skids to run another Red Sox out of town.

If this is an indication that the Sox are going to make a big move to land Holliday before the deadline I'm all for it. I really doubt it though, between O'Dowd's mania and Theo's fascination with the price of dairy products I really doubt they he's able to do much.

This means the Sox are extending Manny's contract 6 more seasons. That's the way this always works.

See, I thought it meant that Theo would put on a great trading kabuki play that would be more complicated than the internal plottings of renaissance Venice that would greatly entertain the other owners, but not lead to an actual deal being made. And in the aborted last act Manny stays with the Sox and Theo grumbles about great artists not being understood in their own time.

I don't quite understand what's being said in #9 and #11, but I'm pretty sure it's funny.

"Stat geeks, take note: Manny’s OPS is down the last two years. By a lot."

Red-headed Perm, take note: Manny's OPS+ in 2008 is HIGHER than his OPS+ was last year. By a lot.

Also, it should be pointed out that Manny's 2006 campaign (165 OPS+) was his highest since 2002 (184 OPS+). Thus, to bemoan the fact that at 36 he's down from his recent peak at age 34 is not much of a critique.

All that said, I tend to agree with the tenor of the Red-headed Perm's piece: Manny is selfish and always has been. He's also a complete idiot. Too many people have given him the benefit of the doubt -- "Manny Being Manny" -- assuming his idiosyncratic ways were reflective of his Forrest Gump-like low mental wattage, not selfishness. At this point, I don't see them being mutually exclusive.

Thanks Marc Sully. I was hoping someone would either recognize it or take the time to google it. ;-)

Thanks Marc Sully. I was hoping someone would either recognize it or take the time to google it. ;-)

Well, maybe Lerner didn't LIE, but sure as heck can close.

What piss-boy do you know who doesn't wait for the tinkle?
Not going to even get into the hand rags.

While Shaughnessy often gets a negative reaction here, he seems to be reflecting reality today. The Red Sox sent Manny for a MRI and then announced he was OK, which certainly seems to indicate they don't believe his injury claim. There are reports that Manny will be fined and suspended if he doesn't play today. That could be a media fabrication but it sounds more like management sending a message. And the Red Sox clubhouse is closed to the media, notwithstanding MLB rules to the contrary, so something is going on.

If this is an indication that the Sox are going to make a big move to land Holliday before the deadline I'm all for it. I really doubt it though, between O'Dowd's mania and Theo's fascination with the price of dairy products I really doubt they he's able to do much.

Just say no. I really can't understand the momentum from Sox fans to acquire Holliday. The disparity in his home/road splits has been admittedly overplayed, but is alarming nonetheless. At it's not just the near .300 point swing in OPS. On the road, his walk rate is considerably lower and he also strikes out at a much higher frequency. We can talk about the adjustments players at Coors make having when they travel-- and I will accept that to a certain extent-- but a .389 home BABIP indicates he is getting a huge Coors boost. When you are talking about giving up top prospects and then inking the guy to an extension (for what would presumably be this age 30-36 seasons) at upwards of $20 mil in AAV, I want a safer bet. With Holliday, there is always going to be lingering doubts about his performance away from Coors... and you're probably going to be making the leap before you know for sure. Holliday might be more than an adequate replacement for Manny now, but he damn sure isn't the player Manny was eight years ago. Theo can do better.

Rotoworld:

GM Theo Epstein told FOX broadcaster Tim McCarver before Saturday's game that the Red Sox will make an effort to deal Manny Ramirez if he his no-trade clause.

GM Theo Epstein told FOX broadcaster Tim McCarver before Saturday's game that the Red Sox will make an effort to deal Manny Ramirez if he his no-trade clause.

Must be that time of year again.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.



-Albert Einstein

Too bad this counts posting the same "witty" quote over and over again. Believe me--I'm speaking from experience.

Holliday might be more than an adequate replacement for Manny now, but he damn sure isn't the player Manny was eight years ago. Theo can do better

.

How?

Whatever kind of a guy Ramirez may be, he is a legit HoF hitter and is still damn good at the plate. Holliday is a hell of a player, but you can't just go and get a guy as good as Manny Ramirez, age 28, when you want one, no matter how smart you are and no matter how much money you have.

As far as moving him NOW, I think that is just noise. I'll be surprised if Ramirez--or Holliday--goes anywhere. The Red Sox have as good a shot as anybody at the 2008 title, and I don't see how they can move Ramirez right now without causing roster-construction offensive-core problems.

I had a long post about Ramirez in another thread, in which I predicted he would be back soon, (he is in the lineup today) will hit fine, and will be playing LF for the Indians next year. I'll stick with all 3.

And if by "better" you mean get a guy like Dunn or Burrell, who will cost less, fair enough.

Since few people ever give Ramirez the benefit of the doubt, let's assume the worst: he's faking his knee injury, and was fine to play last night.

I don't care. The man produces every year, and has produced a ton of value over his career, which is more than the vast majority of major leaguers can say. He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because some twits think he was faking an injury.

That statement from Theo is pretty telling, in my opinion.

say what you will Rich, but ramirez is very clearly in decline. his ops+ each of the last two years is lower than it had been since 1994 (though 95-98 are fairly close to his performance this year). He's 36, maybe he'll be a 140 ops+ guy for a couple more years, or maybe not. But he's definitely not the Manny of old.

I really can't understand the momentum from Sox fans to acquire Holliday.

Because we're not hung up on trying to somehow clone a player so as to maintain the status quo, and are instead trying to figure out how to improve the team. Fans who ##### and moan that no one is equal to Manny in his prime to realize that Manny is not in his prime any more. We can't get Ted Williams to play LF, either. Consider their VORP/ EQAs/ and WARP for the last few years:

Manny:

'06: 66.1/ .342/ 5.2
'07: 34.6/ .303/ 4.1
'08: 36.9/ .322/ 4.3

Holliday:

'06: 56.8/ .308/ 7.9
'07: 75.0/ .325/ 10.2
'08: 46.4/ .342/ 5.2

Holliday sure looks like a player coming into his prime who's defense more than makes up for not being the hitter Manny was in his prime. I'm pretty sure that part of the Sox's thinking is that Manny's replacement will be a better defender. Now I don't particularly care for WARP's defensive component, but I don't think any other stat you'd care to look at will tell a different story.

Since few people ever give Ramirez the benefit of the doubt, let's assume the worst: he's faking his knee injury, and was fine to play last night.

I don't care. The man produces every year, and has produced a ton of value over his career, which is more than the vast majority of major leaguers can say. He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because some twits think he was faking an injury.

It seems like you're trying to have it both ways here. If you really "assume the worst", as you say in the first paragraph, then you have to say "He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because he was faking an injury". Is that what you believe? That's fine, but say so.

They aren't going to trade Manny before the deadline.

Maybe they'll trade him after the deadline. Nobody's going to claim his salary on waivers.

Because we're not hung up on trying to somehow clone a player so as to maintain the status quo, and are instead trying to figure out how to improve the team.

Really? Because it sure seems like throwing another $20 million dollar/year contract at a power-hitting left fielder (plus some cocktail of Bowden, Lowrie, Anderson, Reddick, et al) would be exactly that. Only this time, you're getting a guy with ominous road splits, vastly inferior plate discipline, and a batting average leaning on an unsustainable BABIP. Oh, but he plays a stellar left field!

How about you take one fifth of what it would cost for one season of Matt Holliday and bring Alex Meyer into the fold? Then, show some faith in a top rated farm system and wait to see if Anderson/Reddick develop into viable big league corners. If that means a year of Chris Carter in LF as a bridge, I'm on board. It's not that I have any aversion to making an expensive acquisition... it's that I have huge problem from handing $20 mil plus to a far-from-sure-thing player, possibly into his late-30s.

Is there something wrong with "maintaining the status quo" of the Red Sox? Including the postseason, they've won an average of 100 games over the last five years.

McCarver today: "I'm no doctor, but if his knee was hurting something would've come up on the MRI"

That's when I changed the channel.

Yeah, I'd be fine with maintaining the status quo when the status quo is "world championship 50% of the time".

The parallels between Manny and a really hot but mentally unstable woman are numerous;

Well, you know what the rule is. Attractive, mentally stable, single: Choose two.

Also, isn't the obvious thing for the Red Sox to sign Adam Dunn to take over in LF?

####. ####.

It seems like you're trying to have it both ways here. If you really "assume the worst", as you say in the first paragraph, then you have to say "He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because he was faking an injury". Is that what you believe? That's fine, but say so.

He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because he was faking an injury.

Ramirez won't clear waivers in August. The claiming team would owe him about $6 million or so. Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't snap him up at that price in a heartbeat, given their outfield situation?

Attractive, mentally stable, single: Choose two.

Not single can be worked around.

Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't snap him up at that price in a heartbeat, given their outfield situation?

But then the Red Sox will pull him back and the Yankees has to compete against a better team.

Ramirez won't clear waivers in August. The claiming team would owe him about $6 million or so. Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't snap him up at that price in a heartbeat, given their outfield situation?

I don't know that the Yankees would do but the Mets would. The Red Sox always do this with Manny. They'll say he's available, ask far too much for him, no one will be willing to Boston's terms, and Manny will finish the season with the Sox.

Today I saw that Manny was hitting .301 and had 63 RBI.

Further proof - in my opinion anyhow - that Boston is full of bigger whiners than even Queens, which is really saying something.

Really? Because it sure seems like throwing another $20 million dollar/year contract at a power-hitting left fielder (plus some cocktail of Bowden, Lowrie, Anderson, Reddick, et al) would be exactly that. Only this time, you're getting a guy with ominous road splits, vastly inferior plate discipline, and a batting average leaning on an unsustainable BABIP. Oh, but he plays a stellar left field!

First off, I'm not suggesting that the Sox empty the farm, or just give into any demand that enters O'Dowd's insane little head. But the Sox have plenty of money, and Philly has been pretty persuasive in arguing that Sox are in the perfect position to take on a large contract for an impact player.

Holliday happens to fit the Sox immediate needs for a LFer and RH power bat who will play 150 games. There's not much I can do about how LFers are developed; it's an offensive position and the Sox can't afford to lose more offense from the roster. The reason that I brought up the stats I did is to get people off his road splits. Manny's component hitting stats don't hide just how truly awful he is as a defender, and they don't make him a better player than Holliday.

How about you take one fifth of what it would cost for one season of Matt Holliday and bring Alex Meyer into the fold? Then, show some faith in a top rated farm system and wait to see if Anderson/Reddick develop into viable big league corners. If that means a year of Chris Carter in LF as a bridge, I'm on board. It's not that I have any aversion to making an expensive acquisition... it's that I have huge problem from handing $20 mil plus to a far-from-sure-thing player, possibly into his late-30s.

I think they can do both (from the rumors being floated it seems like Meyer is already close to being signed - even if they don't it looks like they're going to sign enough high-end HS players (like Westmoreland and Hissey) to infuse as much talent as they can into the system).

The problem is your scenario leaves the Sox essentially punting this year and next year. Carter is Manny-lite (all bat, no glove, and LHed to boot) and the one place the system is weak is power bats close to the majors. The Sox have a surplus of low level, high potential OFers who might make it down the road, but they also have enough talent to deal some to fix some immediate holes. I can agree with you about not wanting to take on the back end of large contract (which is almost certainly not going to be pretty), but the Sox have enough $ to deal with that when the time comes. I'm not really interested in the process of drafting a team the way the Rays did.

The other thing is that the Rockies, pathetic as it is, are only 6 out. If they put together one hot streak--say, uhh, 13 of 14--they could make the playoffs this year. And of course they will obviously go into 2009 thinking contentiom out here in our little division.

I just don't see anything happening with Ramirez's getting traded from and Holliday's being acquired by Boston.

Holliday happens to fit the Sox immediate needs for a LFer and RH power bat who will play 150 games.

Except they _don't_ have those "immediate needs." They have a HOF player still producing at a high level named Manny Ramirez, for this year and next, if they want him.

It's silly to throw resources at a problem that doesn't exist. They should be more worried about C and CF.

Since few people ever give Ramirez the benefit of the doubt, let's assume the worst: he's faking his knee injury, and was fine to play last night.

I don't care. The man produces every year, and has produced a ton of value over his career, which is more than the vast majority of major leaguers can say. He's still producing at a high level, and I don't want to replace him with an inferior player just because some twits think he was faking an injury.

He may or may not have been faking an injury, but he sure isn't faking any effort whenever he runs the bases. Today he hit a line drive that could have easily been misplayed into at least two bases, maybe even three, and yet he'd barely moved out of the batter's box by the time it was caught. And on that rally ending double play he looked liked he was channeling Stepin Fetchit. You've got to lean over backwards all the way to the floor to put up with that kind of shlt.

This is the sort of In Your Face loafing that for better or worse, he'd never get away with as a Yankee. The last Yankee who tried that on that consistent a basis was Neon Deion, and he was traded almost immediately. Cano and Cabrera do it once in a while, but never on Manny's scale, and never with the defiant air that Manny projects.

All that said, Ray's absolutely right about the tradeoff. Manny's still one of the best hitters in baseball and would be almost impossible to replace. I can only wonder what his reaction would have been if he'd been told in 2001 that his little games weren't going to be tolerated. Would he have fallen into line, or would he have chosen to go elsewhere?

Ramirez won't clear waivers in August. The claiming team would owe him about $6 million or so. Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't snap him up at that price in a heartbeat, given their outfield situation?

In addition to that $6M, you have to add a large increase in the cost of linen service plus huge raises for all the clubhouse help, as well as a massive increase in plumbing repairs. For that and many better reasons, the Yankees would not claim Ramirez if he is waived by Boston. How would Manny leaving Boston hurt the Yanks?

On the FOX replay of Manny's double play it looked like he was barely trotting. Don't see how you can tolerate one guy making a half-hearted effort while 24 guys are going all out.

McCarver today: "I'm no doctor, but if his knee was hurting something would've come up on the MRI"

I was watching the game with doctors.

To quote, "MRIs do not work that way!"

In addition to that $6M, you have to add a large increase in the cost of linen service plus huge raises for all the clubhouse help, as well as a massive increase in plumbing repairs. For that and many better reasons, the Yankees would not claim Ramirez if he is waived by Boston. How would Manny leaving Boston hurt the Yanks?

There's maybe a 30% chance Ramirez is a Yankee next year. I'll save these posts and watch YC backtrack.

I really hope the Red Sox pick up Manny's next option. I don't see a better solution - I'd rather overspend on a one-year contract for a limited player with a good bat than overspend on a six-year contract for a limited player with a good bat (Burrell/Dunn).

I am mildly hopeful that the attacks on Ramirez seem to be channeled to Lucchino's mouthpieces - CHB in particular - and they might not reflect the thinking of the baseball ops people. But the volume is great enough that it sure looks bad for Manny's fans who want him around in Boston.

For that and many better reasons, the Yankees would not claim Ramirez if he is waived by Boston. How would Manny leaving Boston hurt the Yanks?

If another team claims him and the Sox let them, there's no way that the Manny replacements could make up for his production over the rest of the year and (particularly) should there be playoffs.

If he's traded instead, the Yankees would not want the Sox to realize the talent that comes back.

I think the Yankees would claim him, if only to mess with what Boston wants to do.

And yes, I think this is the beginning of "the kiss", a never-ending spiral awarded to once-popular Boston baseballers.

Ramirez won't clear waivers in August. The claiming team would owe him about $6 million or so. Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't snap him up at that price in a heartbeat, given their outfield situation?

If any team, Yankees or not, ever actually got Ramirez off the waiver list, Theo Epstein would be cheered by about 20% of the fan base, but the other 80% would build the biggest bonfire that Boston's ever seen, and throw the poor boy right into the middle of it. I think that Theo realizes that. Batters with Manny's numbers don't exactly grow on trees.

Besides what Andy said, what motivation does Boston have to lose Manny on waivers? His contract is nearly up. I could see placing him on in case of a great trade, but I can't see letting him go.

All I'm saying is he won't clear waivers. Obviously the Red Sox won't just let somebody claim him, but they won't be trading him after July 31, which is to say they won't be trading him.

There's maybe a 30% chance Ramirez is a Yankee next year. I'll save these posts and watch YC backtrack.

Back when Manny was a free agent, the Yanks made it clear they weren't interested, and they didn't claim Manny when Boston put him on waivers. If the Yankees didn't want Manny in his prime, why would anyone think that they'd overpay for his decline years. Not going to happen.

Except they _don't_ have those "immediate needs." They have a HOF player still producing at a high level named Manny Ramirez, for this year and next, if they want him.

It's silly to throw resources at a problem that doesn't exist. They should be more worried about C and CF.

Have you not been paying attention for the last half week (or for the last 5 years for that matter)? I think there's a very good chance that they don't want him. Manny's HOF candidacy doesn't change the fact that he's pretty much overpaid for his total (including defensive) production.

Unfortunately I don't see much on the FA horizon for either catchers or CFers. Coco stands a good chance of being the best available CFer, and the options at C are just as bad. Upgrading the total production from LF would make it easier to carry Tek and let Jacoby develop, which seems like the only real option.

He may or may not have been faking an injury, but he sure isn't faking any effort whenever he runs the bases. Today he hit a line drive that could have easily been misplayed into at least two bases, maybe even three, and yet he'd barely moved out of the batter's box by the time it was caught. And on that rally ending double play he looked liked he was channeling Stepin Fetchit. You've got to lean over backwards all the way to the floor to put up with that kind of shlt.

It'll likely come as no surprise to you, Andy, that I don't mind it at all. 99% of the time it doesn't make a bit of difference, and the other 1% is easily outweighed by his positive contributions. Those that obsess over this stuff can't see the big picture.

Besides, there's actually a very serious argument that not hustling 100% of the time helps him avoid tweaks and pulls and other injuries. Or play with an injury, such as... oh, I don't know... the sore knee that he had today. He's on pace to play 148 games this year, which is a pretty decent amount, so he must be doing something right.

This is just more of the Blame Your Best Players type of nonsense. It's not serious analysis.

There's maybe a 30% chance Ramirez is a Yankee next year.

OF/DH next year will be Damon/Melky(until Jackson comes up)/Nady, with Matsui DHing. If they decide to sign someone, it won't be a guy who can't even cover enough ground to play left field in Fenway well. And it also won't be someone close to 40. So I'd say there's a 5% percent chance they sign him, if they go after Burrell and Dunn and fail and Cashman is fired or Matsui is traded.

I just looked at Holliday's home/road splits that some of you have been talking about. My god.

Don't you know that home/road splits are totally meaningless, Ray?

I don't have any opinion about whether the Red Sox should pursue Holliday or not, but at this point in their careers, there isn't anything on the baseball field that Manny Ramirez can do as well as Matt Holliday. Holliday is the better hitter (156 OPS+ vs. 143 this year, 150 vs. 126 last year), the better fielder, the better baserunner, and is more durable. People claim Holliday doesn't walk, but he's drawn 47 this year to Ramirez' 50.

Manny does have better hair, though.

On the FOX replay of Manny's double play it looked like he was barely trotting.

Geez, he's running like a guy with sore knees.

Oh, wait. . .

Holliday is the better hitter (156 OPS+ vs. 143 this year, 150 vs. 126 last year), the better fielder, the better baserunner, and is more durable.

With Holliday, a team will also not have to excuse or otherwise explain away twenty "Matty being Matty" incidents every season.

Manny is one of the greatest hitters I've ever seen, but management must find it tiring to constantly have to deal with his erratic behaviour. The local press, however, must love his craziness.

You know what, though? 30 years from now, there's going to be very little literature on baseball players as characters, the way there was on countless players up through about the 1960s. Stories about a ballplayer doing this or that other thing on the field, with teammates off the field, or outside of his ballplaying job.

Manny's one of the only real characters of our generation. I think history will look kindly on him for that.

Manny's one of the only real characters of our generation.

It depends on what you mean by characters. There's all sorts of other guys whose lives would make for an interesting read - Bonds, Sheffield, Schilling, Big Papi, Pedro, Giambi, Jeter, Grieke, Sosa, Hamilton, and tons of others who I'm not thinking of right now. I guess the only difference is that Manny has more of a clown appeal than the others.

I think history will look kindly on him for that.

It's possible, but you never know. I think a lot of writers (and fans as they age) would take the view that his behaviour disrespected the game. Even now, there are a lot of writers who seem to want to take that route.

I also doubt that people would really want to reach back across history to read about Manny using the canny.

It's possible, but you never know. I think a lot of writers (and fans as they age) would take the view that his behaviour disrespected the game. Even now, there are a lot of writers who seem to want to take that route.

That's mostly writers that will be dead 30 years from now.

What I'm getting at was Manny was quirky, different, weird, in a generation where ballplayers are trained pretty much from birth to be, anywhere where there might be a camera or microphone, extremely bland. Yes, those guys you listed will make for good biographies, but they won't make for good 3-minute stories to tell at a dinner party. "There was this time in 2005 that Manny..." That's more what I'm driving at.

I think the difference between this time and the other endless times this has happened is for once management seems to be driving this more than Manny. I do think they've had just about enough of him.

'Disrespect for the game' is overused, but that's just what I was thinking watching Manny run - trot - walk down the first base line today. It's not so much the game as respect for his teammates, respect for guys less talented than him with the bat.

He may not only be wearing out his welcome in Boston, but in baseball as well.

but never on Manny's scale, and never with the defiant air that Manny projects.

Well, they can't hit like Manny either.

Andy, why do you say the Red Sox are willing to put up with Manny's crap but the Yankees wouldn't be?

If the Yankees had new ownership and inherited Manny's contract, how differently would the Yankees have handled him? Demand he hustle? Then he would just sulk and play like ####, and he still wouldn't hustle anyway. And his contract is awfully hard to move. That wouldn't change if he was wearing pinstripes instead.

How differently would the Yankees handle him? I don't see how, except to not pick up his option, as the Red Sox plan to(not) do.

He may not only be wearing out his welcome in Boston, but in baseball as well.

As long as Manny doesn't kill someone between now and the winter, teams are going to be falling all over themselves to sign Manny. He has a 140 OPS. How many teams couldn't use a hitter that good especially in the AL where he can DH? Manny is going to make around 15 million next season.

No they won't. He's a lousy fielder and baserunner. His only calling card is his bat and that's fallen off some. He's not much more than a DH right now and he'll be another year older. If he declines any more, he'll be an average player. Teams don't fall all over themselves to sign average players.

No they won't. He's a lousy fielder and baserunner. His only calling card is his bat and that's fallen off some. He's not much more than a DH right now and he'll be another year older. If he declines any more, he'll be an average player. Teams don't fall all over themselves to sign average players.

The Astros gave Carlos Lee 100 million. The Dodgers gave Juan Pierre 40 million. The Angels gave Garry Matthews 50 million. Carlos Silva got 48 million. Jose Guillen got 3y/36m. Are you really telling me that Manny won't get at least 2y/25m from someone this offseason?

If Manny DHs, he actually becomes an even better player because he doesn't give any of his value back on defense. Any team that has an opening at DH and isn't interested in signing Manny is stupid.

Any team that has an opening at DH and isn't interested in signing MannyBarry is stupid.

Just goes to show, as Joaquin Andujar used to say... youneverknow.

Manny will get offers, but after seeing Barry Bonds not get a single offer this year, I wouldn't be shocked if Manny can't match the $20M per year of the team options on his current deal.

Sure he'll get some offers.

But no way is he ever making 20 mil again.

Russlan, teams did not fall all over themselves to sign Lee, Pierre, Matthews and Silva.

But no way is he ever making 20 mil again.

I didn't say that he would make 20 million. I said he'd make 15 million next season which I think will happen if he is willing to sign a 1 or 2 year deal. At the very least, Manny has the option of accepting arbitration and he'll get around 15 million that way. I was responding to the comment that Manny is wearing out his welcome in baseball. That's just crazy.

Well, you kind of exaggerated by saying teams would fall all over themselves to sign him. I don't think that's happening.

While Manny is a jerk (and selfish), his reputation for being a malcontent doesn't nearly rise to Barry's level of jerkiness. Manny is more on the order of Sheffield. And Sheff has not had trouble getting teams to sign him.

Because he is widely hated by the press (with good reason) and widely hated by every fan base save one, and because he is a key figure in the steroids situation, you really have to put Barry in a category by himself. It takes a lot to get blackballed in baseball when you can still hit well. Yet Bonds has done everything it takes. Man-Ram isn't even close, in terms of getting blackballed.

Manny is the Joker and Theo is Harvey Dent. This will end badly.

Manny will get offers, but after seeing Barry Bonds not get a single offer this year, I wouldn't be shocked if Manny can't match the $20M per year of the team options on his current deal.

never discount the Mets. old and past his prime.

This has Mets written all over it.

I don't get the obsession with Holliday when Bay is so obviously available. Even without the help of Coors field, his career numbers aren't that far short of Holliday's, he only a year older, and he'll likely cost less to sign long-term. I could see the Pirates taking a package of Bowden, Moss, and a couple of B level prospects to get him, especially after what they took for Nady/Marte.

I've said this before, but I think Ramirez will finish the year in Boston and then sign a three-year deal with the Indians. They badly need a corner power bat, it'd be a nice PR thing, and he would be welcomed back there by most of the fanbase (I think). Holliday is not going anywhere. The Boston LF next year will be Dunn or Burrell, and Lowrie will be at SS (that appears to be happening already). I also think Bay will stay in PGH when the dust settles.

you really have to put Barry in a category by himself. It takes a lot to get blackballed in baseball when you can still hit well. Yet Bonds has done everything it takes. Man-Ram isn't even close, in terms of getting blackballed.

Yes. Andy and I (and others) have pointed out that Bonds is unique; comparing him to anybody is pretty much pointless. In my opinion, he would have had a job this year if the Feds had decided not to indict. To me, that tipped the balance. Personally, I wish someone would have signed him. I still like to watch him hit, and I see baseball as entertainment, not as a moral hygiene lesson.

Manny's a bb!tch.

Since few people ever give Ramirez the benefit of the doubt

Haven't people given Manny the benefit of the doubt for his entire career? Is there any other player where a fun catch phrase has been created just to excuse his colourful behavior?

Overall, fans and the media have been pretty forgiving to Manny, no doubt due to his incredible bat. It's laughable that now that Manny is getting a bit of criticism, suddenly "few people ever give Ramirez the benefit of the doubt".

Haven't people given Manny the benefit of the doubt for his entire career? Is there any other player where a fun catch phrase has been created just to excuse his colourful behavior?

Funny nicknames, perhaps. "Rube" for several players. "Spaceman" Lee.

Haven't people given Manny the benefit of the doubt for his entire career? Is there any other player where a fun catch phrase has been created just to excuse his colourful behavior?

The same Red Sox management now vilifying him has even, via their NESN subsidiary, created a commercial celebrating the antics that inspired the "fun catch phrase," which gets aired about 12 times daily over the course of the pregame, game, and postgame telecasts.