CHB is sooooo yesterday's news in in the Boston sports scene.

Look at what people like Alex Speier and Amalie Benjamin can do compared to these guys.

CHB couldn't spell "OPS+" if you spotted him the consonants.

Flags apprently don't fly forever.

Shaughnessy is a stopped clock. No matter what's happening with the Red Sox, they are cursed, life is horrible, no one should be enjoying themselves in any way.

It does happen to be the case that the Boston Red Sox are publicly proclaiming an offseason strategy under which they do not plan to compete with the New York Yankees next year. (I mean, they'll project ~5 wins worse, so competition is surely not impossible, and is likely for at least a few months, so this could be overstated.) And I can't say, as a fan, that I'm happy with the Red Sox not really trying to build a team that they expect to beat the Yankees. I want to win the division, winning in 2007 was ####### sweet.

the day I take advice on how to be a Sox fan is the day a magic leprechaun covers the CHB with Jason Gimabi's Rainbow Juice.

You know, Jason Giambi is a free agent, and would love to DH/1B for you.

You know, Jason Giambi is a free agent, and would love to DH/1B for you.


He can replace Mike Lowell in the 'too slow to beat out a hard one-hop liner to right field' spot on the roster.

Shaughnessy may be right, unless Ramirez and Bonser and Hermida are just the beginning.

And I can't say, as a fan, that I'm happy with the Red Sox not really trying to build a team that they expect to beat the Yankees.

cmon, lets not get crazy here. The Yankees steamrolled the league, won the world series, and have almost every key guy returning and the Sox should expect to beat them next year?

There has been no tear-down! This is not re-building! They didnt trade Papelbon for prospects. They didnt move Drew in a salary dump. Trading Lowell is not a cheapskate move, he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to start for us. The frickin huge Victor Martinez trade was frickin less than 5 months ago, and he is as good an asset as Holliday or Bay (but what have you done for me lately, I guess).

Shaughnessy may be right

aboout what exactly??

the problem right now is that the Yankees for some reason don't need to give up equal talent to get talent, while the Red Sox do.

It is not the Yankees fault that other teams valued Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson.

the problem right now is that the Yankees for some reason don't need to give up equal talent to get talent, while the Red Sox do.

As far as I can tell, the Diamondbacks were sitting there waiting to be taken advantage of by the first team that came along.

Shaughnessy is a turd and his rants are boring. Beltre is going somewhere. Seattle has a shiny, new 3B, we need a 3B, it's pretty simple really. I think Bay will be back and Beltre will be 3B. The team will win it's usual 95 or so games and compete well once again. To build a 103 win team you need to spend $180+ and the Sox don't want to go there...I have no issues with this. Qualify for the playoffs and go from there.

It's amazing that in the face of overwhelming evidence that this front office is the best one in the team's history in the last zillion years, Shaughnessy continually acts as if Theo and Company don't know what they're doing and do not value winning. The Red Sox have been winning a lot since this management team took over. And they're set up to be a winning team and to have a chance to win the World Series next year and in the years after.

I have no problem with the occasional critical column aimed toward even a very successful front office. God knows there are bloggers (especially younger ones) who overidentify with their favorite teams' front offices to the point where they excuse obviously bad moves, but Shaughnessy's criticisms are a gimmick. He waits for any opportunity to jump. They're knee-jerk and emotional and seemingly personal. Is it because Theo ruined his cottage curse industry?

Stop linking to this #######.

The Rays are looking pretty good. That's what I'd be worried about. 2nd in the east is no guarantee.

The Yankees gave up as much talent to get Granderson as the Red Sox did for Victor Martinez.

the day I take advice on how to be a Sox fan is the day a magic leprechaun covers the CHB with Jason Gimabi's Rainbow Juice.

... and set on fire.

... and set on fire.

Dan Shaughnessy has no redeeming qualities. I think about the current baseball player I absolutely hate the worst (probably Joba Chamberlain), and, as much as I cheer against him every chance I get, I would feel awful if something terrible happened to him off the field. (Although, I did make jokes when his mom was arrested for selling meth to a cop. However, I did feel bad when his dad got sick.)

If Dan were on fire, I'd do nothing to help, and I'd probably take photos.

If Dan were on fire, I'd do nothing to help, and I'd probably take photos.

The old quote is "I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire." CHB deserves to be pissed on unless he is on fire.

Bit early to be writing the obituary for the 2010 Red Sox, don't you think?

My take on the timing of Shank's latest hatchet job here is that Larry the Lobster got out-voted on going after
Matt Holiday, and sent his boy CHB a little message: sic Kid Theo!

I wouldn't care so much about what he says if 90% of the utter tools on Boston.com didn't agree with him. The Red Sox won 95 games in the toughest division in baseball while experiencing a confluence of a) Ortiz falling off a cliff, b) Matsuzaka going splat, c) Wakefield being hurt most of the year, d) Penny being lousy, and e) Smoltz being lousy. You expect two or three of those things to happen, maybe--not all five. They also had no one who truly outperformed their likely 2009 output (with Lester the possible exception).

Yeah, Theo's terrible. Fire him and give us Ed Wade. He knows how to build a winner.

the problem right now is that the Yankees for some reason don't need to give up equal talent to get talent, while the Red Sox do.

It only took Masterson and Kris Johnson to get a superior player in Victor Martinez, so the comparison isn't quite so rough.

They also had no one who truly outperformed their likely 2009 output (with Lester the possible exception).

I would say Lester and the bullpen were pretty strong overperformers.

Right now, they're losing Bay, they have no 3B and the bullpen will probably regress some. They'll be improved at C and SS.

I can see Red Sox fans being worried that they need a couple more pieces.

They also had no one who truly outperformed their likely 2009 output (with Lester the possible exception).

Youkilis, Bay, Drew, Beckett, and the entire bullpen.

The Red Sox will be a good team next year if they don't make any significant moves, but they won't project as a 95-win club. I'd guess 89-92.

Bit early to be writing the obituary for the 2010 Red Sox, don't you think

Is it too early to write the 2010 Pirates obit?

I would say Lester and the bullpen were pretty strong overperformers.

Possibly, though Papelbon wasn't good in the first half, and Delcarmen wasn't good all year. I also honestly thought Lester was going to have the kind of year that he did have in 2009.

The Red Sox need a bat of some kind, but that's really all that they need. To me, Youkilis is the team MVP regardless of what Pedroia does because Youk can play all over the place. Trading Lowell actually widens the pool of hitters the Sox can use as stopgaps. They don't need to keep Bay or sign Holliday as much as find someone good to fill either 1B, 3B, or LF. The problem is that Bay and Holliday are the best bats on the market.

It will be interesting to see if Theo truly punts LF this season or not. I keep wondering if STL will pay what it's going to take to keep Pujols after 2010...

It only took Masterson and Kris Johnson to get a superior player in Victor Martinez, so the comparison isn't quite so rough.

And Hagadone who might be the best of the bunch when all is said and done though he's far from a finished product.

I would say Lester and the bullpen were pretty strong overperformers.

I disagree with this. Maybe I'm being a fanboy but I think Lester took the next step into becoming one of the top pitchers in the game. He's always been a hot prospect and now has back to back strong seasons. I'd be surprised if that 3.41 ERA wasn't a fair representation of where he ends up in 2010.

As for the bullpen, other than Ramirez who overperformed? Certainly not Papelbon, not Okajima, not Delcarmen. I agree the bullpen will be worse, the decline of Ramirez and the loss of Saito will have something to do with that but I don't think it was a group-wide overperformance in 2009.

Is it too early to write the 2010 Pirates obit?

I don't think it's too early to write the 2015 Pirates obit.

It only took Masterson and Kris Johnson to get a superior player in Victor Martinez, so the comparison isn't quite so rough.

Kris Johnson is still the property of the Red Sox, as far as I know. So they did even better than we thought!

The deal was for Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Bryan Price. Still not a hugely impressive haul for the Tribe, but Hagadone could turn out to be pretty good if he can get/stay healthy.

V-Mart's a better hitter than Granderson, but he probably gives back a chunk of that advantage on defense. Granderson's also under contract at a very reasonable price for up to three more years. V-Mart's deal had half that amount of time left on it when he was dealt.

I believe the two trades are fairly comparable in terms of both the "star" player received and the young talent given up to acquire him. Yanks might've done a smidge better, but it's early yet.

Amen to #22. I read some comments hoping to enjoy some Shaughnessy rebuttal, but they agreed at some terrible 75/25 ratio. Congrats CHB, your goal of dividing and annoying sox fans is being accomplished!

Youkilis, Bay, Drew, Beckett, and the entire bullpen[truly outperformed their likely 2009 output].

the bullpen? Papelbon exactly matched his career ERA and crashed and burned in the playoffs. Okajima was slightly worse than in his other years. Delcarmen was terrible. I guess Ramon Ramirez outperformed expectations.

And Youkilis, Bay, and Drew all almost exactly matched their 2008!

The aught-nine Sox weren't some team that came out of nowhere due to unexpected great seasons and made a story-book run at the wildcard. They had a lot of talented players and won a lot of games, but were not good enough to win the pennant.

I'd guess 89-92.

Thats way to many games. 91-71 is likely though.

the bullpen?

The 7 most significant RPs all put up ERA+ >100, 5 of those >120, 3 >160. Given the flaky nature of RPs that's unusual.

Even if that was their mean projections, a repeat is unlikely. Odds are that every bullpen will have 2-3 guy suck or get hurt, if only b/c of SSS.

Shaughnessy is a stopped clock. No matter what's happening with the Red Sox, they are cursed, life is horrible, no one should be enjoying themselves in any way.

Couldn't you guys just pitch in and get him a hooker a couple of times a month?

Kris Johnson is still the property of the Red Sox, as far as I know. So they did even better than we thought!

Yeah, I goofed, meant Hagadone. Confused my lefty Sox prospects with arm troubles.

I don't think it's too early to write the 2015 Pirates obit.

DATELINE: 2015
The Pittsburgh Pirates guaranteed themselves yet another losing season today after a heartbreaking 11-inning loss to the San Juan Palms in front of a crowd of 20,000 in Pittsburgh....

The Pittsburgh Pirates guaranteed themselves yet another losing season today after a heartbreaking 11-inning loss to the San Juan Palms in front of a crowd of 20,000 in Pittsburgh....

Hey, looks like attendance is picking up in Pittsburgh!

The mere thought of Pujols in a Red Sox uniform just gave me goosebumps. I think I'd faint dead away were this to ever actually happen.

The 7 most significant RPs all put up ERA+ >100, 5 of those >120, 3 >160. Given the flaky nature of RPs that's unusual.

Yes, they had an unusually good bullpen last year. But before the season it was considered likely and expected that they would be good.

and btw, the 2008 Sox had 3 RP's with ERA+ >160 and 5 >140. the 2007 team had 3 RP's with ERA+ >200, and 6 RP's with ERA+ >120. I don't know why 2009 would stick out at all as an outlier of success.

Yes, they had an unusually good bullpen last year. But before the season it was considered likely and expected that they would be good.

and btw, the 2008 Sox had 3 RP's with ERA+ >160 and 5 >140. the 2007 team had 3 RP's with ERA+ >200, and 6 RP's with ERA+ >120. I don't know why 2009 would stick out at all as an outlier of success.

Yes, they have a good bullpen. But, to expect that kind of run to continue indefinitely, especially with quite a bit of their depth gone (Saito, Masterson) is ignoring the volatile nature of RP.

Hey, looks like attendance is picking up in Pittsburgh!

It was Roberto Clemente Holographic Bobble-Head day.

Bit early to be writing the obituary for the 2010 Red Sox, don't you think?

It's certainly possible that waiting a month or more will give Boston the same options they have today at less cost, if players & agents lower their expectations in what could be a weak market. However, John Henry is apparently not nearly as rich as he was a couple of years ago (as are many others, including some MLB owners) and he's taken on a much younger wife - those can be expensive. If the Red Sox pass on both Bay & Holiday (and make no other big ticket moves) - then Shaugnessy may be proved right. Not that the Boston front office is incompetent but that there was at least a short-term decision to place greater emphasis on profits over playoffs.

<WRONG THREAD>

Yes, they have a good bullpen. But, to expect that kind of run to continue indefinitely, especially with quite a bit of their depth gone (Saito, Masterson) is ignoring the volatile nature of RP.

Just because most RP are volatile does not mean all are. COULD some of these guys drop off? Sure, but why would you expect it? There are plenty of examples of consistently good relievers out there. It's a less stable role than hitting but it's not like it's impossible for guys to be good on a regular basis.

Also, why is your assumption a decline? The same randomness that could cause Hideki Okajima to have a 4.50 ERA could also result in a 1.50 ERA.

But, to expect that kind of run to continue indefinitely, especially with quite a bit of their depth gone (Saito, Masterson) is ignoring the volatile nature of RP.

It won't continue indefinitely, and maybe 2010 is a year in which they suffer from a weak bullpen. But with a core of Papelbon/Okajima/Bard/Ramirez, it would be hard to find more than 1 or 2 other relief corps that are a safer bet to be good next year.

The Rays are looking pretty good. That's what I'd be worried about. 2nd in the east is no guarantee.

I gotta say; I've looked at the Rays as best I could, and other than "they were really good two years ago", I just don't see it. I don't think they have enough pitching to compete here.

If the Sox don't upgrade, I think that takes a significant amount of the pressure off of the Yankees in the Halladay sweepstakes.

Second ####### CHB column linked here in a week. Unacceptable. This place needs an enema.

"It feels like the Sox are giving up." Is he ####### kidding me? The Yankees won the WS and all of a sudden we're supposed to be back to pre-2004 misery? Eff that noise mightily. Shank's column is nothing but the assorted whines of a spoiled arsehole.

If they sign Beltre to replace Lowell are they still giving up? What if they trade for Gonzalez? What about if they add a starting pitcher, or re-sign Bay , or do any number of other possible things over the offseason? I'm supposed to believe that because the Yankees traded for Granderson the Sox are just going to trhow their hands up in the air and give up?

#### that. That's the storyline of a man with a large axe to grind.

I saw him on the street outside Fenway once. My first reaction was to smirk. My second was preventative maintenance to keep from punching him in the face.

I don't know how some of the posters above can say that many of the 2009 Red Sox outperformed their career norms...

Josh Beckett? A 2009 ERA+ of 122...but his career ERA is 117, and nobody think he was as good in 09 as he was in, say, 07.

Jon Lester? His 2009 ERA+ was 138...but his 2008 ERA+ was 144. His hit and strikeout rates improved from 08 to 09, but he also was 25 years old in 2009, and, by all accounts is one of the best young pitchers in baseball. Does anybody think his 2009 was really atypical of his ability?

Jason Bay? His 2009 OPS+ was 134. His 2008 OPS+ was...er, 134. His career OPS+ is 131. His career OPS+, year by year, are: 145, 132, 150, 138, 94, 134, 134. Which one of those numbers is the outlier? The second 134? Give me a break.

Kevin Youlilis? He is argubaly the best case for naysayers, but his 2009 OPS+ was 145 - but his 2008 was 143. His 2005-2007 OPS+'s were all about 110, so there is an increase in performance over the past two years, but he has been very consistent during the last two years. Unless you think his age 31 season will be the beginning of a decline, why would 2009 be considered an outlier?

Papelbon? What are people talking about? His 2009 ERA+ was 253...but his career ERA+ is 254. He has an ERA+ of 5-friggin-15 a few years ago...there is a much better argument that he has already begun to decline, than there is that his 2009 represents an unusually good season for Papelbon.

The rest of the bullpen? The bullpen was excellent, to be sure, but let's not forget that some of its members came back to earth as the season concluded. Delcarmen had an ERA+ of 104 (career is 125). Bard, Ramirez...they did not end the season particularly well.

Look, I'm not saying the Red Sox aren't going to be worse in 2010 - it is possible, even if they import significant additional talent, due to injuries, back luck, and plain old poor performances. But I don't see the Red Sox' main competitors besides the Yankees (TB, SEA, TEX) for the wildcard being likely to win 95 games in 2010, so I suspect that the Sox are poised, at a minimum, to be playing meaningful games in the last two weeks of September.

Shaughnessy is a stopped clock. No matter what's happening with the Red Sox, they are cursed, life is horrible, no one should be enjoying themselves in any way.

so the Sox have CHB, and the Pats/Belichick have Ron Borges--what is it with Boston newspapers?