BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: S.I.: Keith: It seems absurd, but Lincecum’s worthy of Cooperstown talk at 25

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Friday, November 20, 2009

S.I.: Keith: It seems absurd, but Lincecum’s worthy of Cooperstown talk at 25

Keith 98.6.....% of the vote I assume.

All this would seem to suggest that winning a third Cy Young is a matter of when, not if, and that would all but cement Lincecum’s place in Cooperstown. As it is, his candidacy looks a lot more interesting now than it did on Wednesday. Of the 14 previous pitchers to win multiple Cy Young Awards, six are already in the Hall of Fame (Steve Carlton, Sandy Koufax, Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson and Gaylord Perry), four more are all but certain to get in (Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez and Tom Glavine), two are still building their cases (Lincecum and Johan Santana) and one is Roger Clemens, whose candidacy remains up in the air amid a cloud of suspected steroid use.

That leaves only two players who have won multiple Cy’s and are not in the Hall of Fame: Denny McLain, who was derailed by suspensions and injuries shortly after winning in 1968 and 1969, and Bret Saberhagen, who won in 1985 and 1989 as part of a successful 18 year career.

Moreover, McLain is the only pitcher to win consecutive Cy Youngs who is either not yet in Cooperstown or will not be (it’s unclear which direction Clemens’ case will go). This alone puts Lincecum in the discussion. What elevates his chances is his youth. Only Clemens, McLain and Saberhagen have won at least two Cy Youngs by age 25. If he remains healthy, that burdensome caveat that hangs over all players’ careers and their potential legacies, Lincecum seems to have an excellent chance to win a third. If he does that, engravers can start working on his Hall of Fame plaque, crooked smile, flowing hair and all. Perhaps as soon as next year? That isn’t ridiculous either.

Repoz Posted: November 20, 2009 at 01:00 AM | 43 comment(s)
Related News: General, History, Hall of Fame, San Francisco, Awards

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1. Shilzzz

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 01:09 AM (#3392091)

Interesting that the three guys that are, in the writer's terms, least likely to get into cooperstown were the others to have won twice by 25. kind of negates the rest.

2. Primakov is once again done with politics Posted: November 20, 2009 at 01:35 AM (#3392099)

Longevity. Health and longevity, people.

3. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2009 at 02:01 AM (#3392101)

One of the highest medical authorities says that Cooperstown is in the bag. Unfortunately, that medical authority is Dr. K.

4. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2009 at 02:13 AM (#3392106)

Well, he's already at that "I feel blessed to watch this man play sports" level that many Hall wannabes never achieved. I think it's worth noting.

5. Joshua Gibsons Ruth (Voxter) Posted: November 20, 2009 at 02:34 AM (#3392111)

Pedro's gonna have a hard time getting in when they found out he was using black magic all those years. Black magic and ritual sacrifice.

6. Jason Kendall's #6,530,420,771 fan (AS) Posted: November 20, 2009 at 02:40 AM (#3392114)

No, that's not true. It's absurd.

7. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2009 at 02:53 AM (#3392116)

You haven't seen Nelson de la Rosa around lately, have you? Not to mention Ramon Martinez.

8. flame_thrower

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 03:05 AM (#3392119)

It's pretty odd to categorize McLain's non-HOF inclusion as injury-related but not Saberhagen's, given that Saberhagen only had one season where he started 30+ games after his second Cy Young.

9. Shalimar Posted: November 20, 2009 at 04:05 AM (#3392123)

A little early in the off-season to be scrambling for a column idea, isn't it? Lincecum is a pitcher, there's no point even thinking about his Hall chances before he finishes 10 years.

10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2009 at 04:37 AM (#3392130)

A little early in the off-season to be scrambling for a column idea, isn't it?

After Tim Lincecum, we will never again see another 300-game winner.

11. SteveF Posted: November 20, 2009 at 04:46 AM (#3392134)

Some drug use does slow down the aging process.

12. RMc is the Commissioner of Baseball Posted: November 20, 2009 at 05:26 AM (#3392138)

He needs to get a towel on.

13. AROM Posted: November 20, 2009 at 07:56 AM (#3392161)

Dwight Gooden thinks what Timmah! has done so far is enough for the HOF.

14. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:06 AM (#3392166)

Dwight Gooden thinks what Timmah! has done so far is enough for the HOF.

AROM owes Gonfalon many Cokes. (There's a sentence you don't ever imagine yourself writing.)

Now stop jinxing Timmy-boy, people. I think we should treat his career as if he were pitching a long no-hitter and just STFU about it.

15. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:21 AM (#3392177)

Would he be the first Asian American Baseball HoFer?

16. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:25 AM (#3392182)

Would he be the first Asian American Baseball HoFer?

Nope.

17. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 09:08 AM (#3392212)

Some peers for Lincecum, in a 60-point ERA+ range and 400 IP around his current stats, age 25 and under. GC Alexander and Whitey Ford are heartening indicators. Herb Score and Mark Fidrych are unnerving ...

Rk             Player ERA+    IP
1        Howie Pollet  161 563.2
2        Jeff Tesreau  157 525.0
3          Roy Oswalt  151 502.0
4        Tim Lincecum  150 598.2
5          Herb Score  148 553.2
6          Barry Zito  141 768.0
7        Rube Waddell  139 527.2
8        Mike Mussina  137 672.2
9         Ray Collins  135 712.1
10     Frank Sullivan  133 492.0
11      Jair Jurrjens  131 434.0
12      Andy Pettitte  131 636.1
13     Pete Alexander  131 677.1
14        Ernie Shore  130 613.1
15    Ewell Blackwell  129 609.0
16         Bill James  129 536.1
17        Whitey Ford  129 529.2
18    Justin Thompson  128 504.1
19         Jon Lester  128 558.0
20          King Cole  128 470.0
21        Reb Russell  126 484.0
22       Mark Fidrych  126 412.1
23         Tim Hudson  125 573.2
24       Josh Johnson  124 481.1
25           Bill Lee  124 466.1
Rk             Player ERA+    IP
26        Rich Harden  123 464.2
27         Mark Prior  123 657.0
28        Russ Bauers  123 485.2
29        Joe Magrane  122 773.2
30     Dave Davenport  122 662.1
31   Chad Billingsley  122 634.0

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/20/2009.

18. asinwreck Posted: November 20, 2009 at 09:12 AM (#3392214)

Lincecum should eat pancakes with Bill Lee.

19. The Good Face Posted: November 20, 2009 at 09:42 AM (#3392245)

Would he be the first Asian American Baseball HoFer?

Nah, Ichiro. Also, Lincecum's Asian? Huh, learn something every day.

20. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 09:55 AM (#3392256)

Nah, Ichiro. Also, Lincecum's Asian? Huh, learn something every day.

Ichiro isn't really American. Lincecum is half Filipino, right?

21. Dr Stankus and the Semicolons Posted: November 20, 2009 at 09:59 AM (#3392263)

Nah, Ichiro. Also, Lincecum's Asian? Huh, learn something every day.

His mother is Filipino.

The other half is Caucasian.

Of course, Filipino's often have a good dollop of European ancestry.

And then this whole exercise really gets silly.

22. Dr Stankus and the Semicolons Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:01 AM (#3392266)

Ichiro isn't really American.

This reminds me of my college student paper, where they called Nelson Mandela the "first African-American president of South Africa"

23. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:01 AM (#3392267)

His mother is Filipino.

Yep, Lincecum is the Rob Schneider of baseball. I wonder if he'll maintain the same success?

24. OsunaSakata Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:24 AM (#3392290)

Sure let's put Lincecum in the Hall of Fame right now. While we're at it, let's give the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama right now.

25. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:24 AM (#3392291)

Sure let's put Lincecum in the Hall of Fame right now. While we're at it, let's give the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama right now.

:)

26. Cold Prosimian Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:31 AM (#3392298)

"first African-American president of South Africa"

I wish I'd been around to rebut that one. "African-American" is one the stupidest terms ever dreamed up.

27. Gamingboy Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:33 AM (#3392302)

Longevity. Health and longevity, people.

True.

ALso:

SIMILARITY SCORES THROUGH 25:
Roy Oswalt (970)
Ewell Blackwell (963)
Tom Seaton (963)
Whitey Ford (956) *
Bernie Boland (953)
Bob Emslie (953)
Herb Score (952)
Lefty Williams (949)
Steve Hargan (947)
Jim Bouton (947)

Well, Herb Score might have made it if it weren't for that sore arm and line-drive to the face. Lefty Williams might have had some good years left in him if he weren't banned from Baseball, but I don't think he would have made the HOF.

So, uh, call me in a few years.

28. The Good Face Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:34 AM (#3392303)

Ichiro isn't really American.

Damn, I suppose he's not. He's still Asian though, right?

29. Gamingboy Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM (#3392309)

"African-American" is one the stupidest terms ever dreamed up.

30. OsunaSakata Posted: November 20, 2009 at 10:50 AM (#3392328)

This reminds me of my college student paper, where they called Nelson Mandela the "first African-American president of South Africa"

Is that the same newspaper that discussed the 1919 African-American Sox scandal?

31. retro-shiite Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:08 AM (#3392368)

"African-American" is one the stupidest terms ever dreamed up.

I keep hoping to meet a blonde-haired, blue-eyed American of Boer descent who refers to him/herself as "African-American," but I'm still waiting.

32. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:08 AM (#3392370)

Do you also have a problem with Asian-American, Latin-American, Jewish American, Italian-American, Native-American, Irish-American, etc?
I'm just curious, I'll admit the use of "African-American" is getting a bit ridiculous (like the above mentioned use for Mandela), but...

"African-American" seems a useful term to describe immigrants from Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, etc. and their descendants. Applied to people of African descent whose ancestors have lived in the Caribbean or on the American mainland for the last 200-300 years, not so much. Applied to Africans who don't live in the United States like Nelson Mandela, obviously, it's very silly.

33. Jeff K. Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:23 AM (#3392390)

Well, Herb Score might have made it if it weren't for that sore arm and line-drive to the face.

I realize I'm a child, but the juxtaposition of "score", "sore arm", and balls to the face made me chuckle like Beavis and/or Butthead.

His mother is Filipino.

The other half is Caucasian.

So he's 3/4 Asian!

34. Jack Keefe Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:26 AM (#3392397)

Well now every 1 is up set because people are calling 1 another hymenated American names but what of it Al? unless you are a Big Chief Injun like Jabba Chamberlain or Jacoby Pillsbury you are hymenated from somewhere only Ozzie Guillen says I must call Jabba and Pillsbury First Nations Endogamous People Americans of North America. So take major League ball today we have lots of people with hymens in their Appalachians. I your pal Jack Keefe am a Irish-American. Ichiro Netsuke is a Asian-American. My pal Doug Mientkiewicz is a Polack-American. Tim Linseedoil is a Tagalong-American. Johnny Demon is a Siamese-American and I like to ask him Hey Demon if you are Siamese shouldnt you play for the Twins and when he gets into the batters box I say Meow. John Smoltz is a Fellow-Who-Thinks-Manloving-Americans-Might-As-Well-####-Dogs-American. Gabe Kaplan who plays for Tampon Bay now is a Hebrew-Extracted American. So why should an American whose folks came from Africa 1 day in the passed like our President Barack Obrella not be a African-American well I called up my old Pal Carl Everett who has retired from Pro Ball and now manages the Creation Evidences Museum in Glen Rose Texas. Carl I said do you mind if I call you a African-American or should I call you an Afro-American or perhaps a Negro-American or does it matter what I call you as long as I dont call you late for dinner. Keefe said Carl Everett this is no Laphing Matter. How would you like it if some 1 called you a Mick or a Bogtrotter or a Mackerel Snapper or a Popish Peril or a Paddy or a Befreckled 6.50-ERA-toting Mother####er? I see your point Carl says I so what do they call you in Texas. They call me MISTER Everett said Carl.

35. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:48 AM (#3392423)

just STFU about it

cue long, boring tangent about how "STFU" is aggressive language and you're not giving anyone else the chance to be heard.

36. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk

Posted: November 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM (#3392430)

I keep hoping to meet a blonde-haired, blue-eyed American of Boer descent who refers to him/herself as "African-American," but I'm still waiting.

I met a guy from Zimbabwe that liked to do this.

cue long, boring tangent about how "STFU" is aggressive language and you're not giving anyone else the chance to be heard.

STFU YOU!

37. cpass Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM (#3392497)

...there's no point even thinking about his Hall chances before he finishes 10 years.

Agree. Any pitcher could go all Mark Prior on us at any time; and Lincecum has been worked as hard as any in the last two seasons.

38. Randy Jones Posted: November 20, 2009 at 12:32 PM (#3392503)

Nice Keefe post.

Also, #### Jurassic Carl.

39. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: November 20, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3392878)

Wasn't there a recent summer Olympics with a story about an 'African-American' English athlete?

40. AJM Posted: November 20, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3392898)

What elevates his chances is his youth. Only Clemens, McLain and Saberhagen have won at least two Cy Youngs by age 25.

Does this not make sense to anyone else?

"All these great pitchers won 2 awards and are getting into the hall...except for the two that aren't. But good news, Lincecum has a lot in common with those last two!"

41. Walt Davis Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:32 PM (#3393133)

<i>when he gets into the batters box I say Meow<i>

Brilliant!

42. Monty Posted: November 20, 2009 at 08:39 PM (#3393139)