. . . several Boston executives called on Rodriguez in his New York hotel suite after 1 a.m. Rodriguez answered the door in a perfectly pressed suit, tie knotted tight to his stiff collar. The Red Sox officials found such polished attire at such a late hour odd, even unsettling.

I have to agree with the Red Sox officials.

"I can't help that I'm a bright person," he said last month. "I know that's not a great quote to give, but I can't pretend to play dumb and stupid."

I'm probably pretty sure that it will work out for the best for Arod.

I'll help you out until you get going. I'll look to drive in runs when they pitch around me, go after that 3-and-1 pitch that might be a ball.

I was dissapointed after that first sentence from Giambi. I was expecting the next sentence to be juicier.

. . . several Boston executives called on Rodriguez in his New York hotel suite after 1 a.m. Rodriguez answered the door in a perfectly pressed suit, tie knotted tight to his stiff collar. The Red Sox officials found such polished attire at such a late hour odd, even unsettling.

A-Rod's so rich he sleeps in Armani suits.

several Boston executives called on Rodriguez in his New York hotel suite after 1 a.m. Rodriguez answered the door in a perfectly pressed suit, tie knotted tight to his stiff collar. The Red Sox officials found such polished attire at such a late hour odd, even unsettling.

I like Rodriguez. I really do. I appreciate that he wants so badly to succeed. But that's some serial killer-type business.

I like Rodriguez. I really do. I appreciate that he wants so badly to succeed. But that's some serial killer-type business.

I laugh at this.

Said one Yankees veteran, "It was always about the numbers in [Seattle and Texas] for him. And that doesn't matter here. Winning is all you're judged on here."

But I thought Jeter never throws other players under the bus.

So a guy shows up for a job interview in a suit and it's strange? Isn't the odd part that Theo and co. wanted to meet with him at 1 am?

New York City at 1 a.m. is pretty much the shank of the nighttime. Rodriguez had almost certainly just gotten done partaking of the nightlife, or was about to go partake of it some more. Is it really "unsettling" that a fella would want to look sharp when he's going out on the town?

Don't know about you all, but the image of A-Rod in a suit at 1:00 A.M. reminds me of the SNL skit "The Continental" with Christopher Walken....

(and frankly, reminding anyone of Christopher Walken is not a good thing).

New York City at 1 a.m. is pretty much the shank of the nighttime. Rodriguez had almost certainly just gotten done partaking of the nightlife, or was about to go partake of it some more. Is it really "unsettling" that a fella would want to look sharp when he's going out on the town?

Those places where you have to dress sharp are lame. And the drinks cost too much. He should hang with Cano and Cabrera. I understand they're the kings of Washington Heights (non-Manny Ramirez division) and I bet they know about having a good time.

Said another teammate, "I think he ought to get his eyes checked. I'm not kidding. I don't think he's seeing the ball."

And another: "I honestly think he might be afraid of the ball."

Any guesses? I'm going with Jeter and Sheffield.

I think this was an excellent piece of reporting on a truly tired subject. Maybe now other journalist can start ignoring it.

Mariano Rivera certainly seems like a nice person, doesn't he.

I've worn a suit for meetings related to much lower paying jobs than ARod's.

I was dissapointed after that first sentence from Giambi. I was expecting the next sentence to be juicier.

Well it just doesn't get much juicier than Giambi.

Unless you're talking about Sheffield.

If this was a TV report it would be by Regis.

Don't know about you all, but the image of A-Rod in a suit at 1:00 A.M. reminds me of the SNL skit "The Continental" with Christopher Walken....

Only the greatest bit in the history of SNL.

(My dad recently told me that it was based on an actual show from the early days of television. He said the bit was actually closely faithful to show. I never dreamed!)

He should hang with Cano and Cabrera. I understand they're the kings of Washington Heights (non-Manny Ramirez division) and I bet they know about having a good time.


You must mean El Nuevo Caridad


Check out the dozens of framed photos that line the walls. There's Mets first baseman Carlos Delgado, Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez (who was born on St. Nicholas Avenue), Braves shortstop Edgar Rentería, former catcher Tony Peña, slugger Sammy Sosa, a preternaturally baby-faced Pedro Martínez, and many, many more. In each picture, the star is standing alongside Miguel Montás, El Nuevo's owner.

``These are my friends, my friends, my friends," Montás said recently, patting his heart with an open hand. Montás, who came to the United States from the Dominican Republic in 1985, doesn't speak much English, so as he talks excitedly about his baseball buddies, his fresh-faced nephew Jonathan Páez, 15, translates.

``He says [ Yankees ] Robinson Canó and Octavio Dotel left just before you came in," Páez said, smiling.

Only the greatest bit in the history of SNL.

I don't recall Christopher Walken on The Sinatra Group. Now, Hartman's Sinatra wouldn't have stood for Rodriguez. He would have sent Steve Lawrence to beat him up.

Those places where you have to dress sharp are lame. And the drinks cost too much. He should hang with Cano and Cabrera. I understand they're the kings of Washington Heights (non-Manny Ramirez division) and I bet they know about having a good time.

Alex has been quoted as saying Midtown is his favorite neighborhood in NYC. I didn't think that's possible.

"His only sign of discomfort was that he kept twirling his wedding ring around his finger."

This was interpreted by Verducci as ARod feeling shame from Torre's scolding. I interpret it more like impatience. Like when you get repremanded by your boss and have to keep telling yourself "Don't show your contempt... don't show your contempt... don't show your contempt." (I'm assuming of course that 99% of primates in 9-5s consider themselves far more intelligent than their middle managing bosses.)

I gotta say I really like ARod. I can't imagine that I would act any differently if I were in his situation. (Or at least I hope I wouldn't.) To confront this stuff would be to acknowledge it. My guess is he is quite an intelligent guy and simply (and correctly) considers himself far above all the Mikeandmaddoggery (to say nothing of the Millarlike Giambi.) Why his reticence is taken as sanctimoniousness is beyond me.

Jeter's just trying to emulate Dimaggio with the everlasting grudges.

"It's not a big deal," he said. "It's only two games. Back in 1999 I was 5 for 81 [actually 6 for 62] and got an 0-and-2 fastball from Esteban Yan over my head and hit it out, and I was fine. This is nothing like that. It's only two games."

It was classic A-Rod: the instant recall of his numbers, the whistling past the graveyard of a slump that was much deeper than two days.

Except, he got his numbers wrong. So maybe his head isn't swimming with his own stats. And anyway, if the ability to recall your at-bats is a sign of narcissism, then I'd bet most of the players would be guilty of it as well. But I guess if you really want to make characterizations, nothing will stand in your way.

I never understood why Verducci gets praised for his writing. Most of it is cliched. And his TV work, wow is that shi+ unbearable.

Alex has been quoted as saying Midtown is his favorite neighborhood in NYC. I didn't think that's possible.

It isn't. Unless you are a tourist. Midtown is a place to traverse quickly.

You must mean El Nuevo Caridad

I was hoping they might make it up to Passions Lounge (formerly El Nuevo Sugar Shack) up by my job. They only roll out the metal detectors on the weekends.

I don't recall Christopher Walken on The Sinatra Group.

Steinbrenner has chunks of guys like A-Rod in his stool!

He's got a bazillion people with advice for him, none of whom knows what it's like to be great and still far below expectations. With such a cacaphony of bums (I'm thinking specifically of Giambi here) and other assorted bleaters around him, it's no wonder that the quiet and classy Rivera would come up high on his list of stand-up guys.

"Alex has been quoted as saying Midtown is his favorite neighborhood in NYC."

Eeeech, I take back what I said about really liking ARod. What the Hell is in Midtown? Hell, what the hell is in all of Manhattan these days. Now that even the EV/LES is getting overrun by douches, I've taken my drinking to the rooftops of Bushwick.

Now that even the EV/LES is getting overrun by douches

Now? It's been at least five years.

I've taken my drinking to the rooftops of Bushwick.

Oh, you're one of those. Say hi to my brother.

After I settle the bill with your mom.

Having read this interesting article, I like ARod more, and Giambi less.

Seems like another example of the age old story of focussing on someone's shortcomings rather than what they do well.

This whole article gives me the heebie jeebies. Since when is it ok for a private conversation of an employee with their supervisor to be public info? In what world is it acceptable to publically bad mouth another employees who you "like" and use it as a motivational tool? It now comes out that Mr. Rodriguez has been working in a hostile work environment all year, no matter how much he makes he shouldn't have to put up with this, does not baseball teams have HR depts. What I think it boil down to is that this is TMI. stuff I don't want to know about Mr. Rodriguez' business.

I thought Mr. Verducci was a better reporter than to write a mud slinging gossip column. My good opinion of him as a sports reporter is now gone.

I agree with deb, but OTOH this sort of article has been part of the sporting scene forever, or at least going back to the first days of SPORT magazine sixty years ago to the month. And in ARod's case, the cliche happens for once also to be the truth: the only way that ARod will ever get the monkey off his back is to shine during a postseason Yankee championship run, or at least have such a great set of series himself so that he couldn't possibly be blamed for the loss.

Just remember all the grief that Barry Bonds got for his postseason flops all the way up till 2002. And it didn't end until he put together what may have been the greatest back-to-back-to-back postseason ever. It's just part of the game and there's really not much point in agonizing over it, because it can't be talked or wished away.

You know, my memory is failing me a bit, but I sure don't remember a bunch of stories about teammates crapping on Giambi when he was sucking ass not so long ago. I mean, sure, there were all those reports about how the Yankees were looking at whether they could void his contract, but those were more of the rumor-mongering variety, and not the "Bernie Williams says Giambi should start juicing again" variety.

Giambi is a jackass. And really, so is Torre for sharing "all the ways" he tried to reach ARod. Sheesh.

The story makes me like A-Rod more, probably because everyone else except Mo and Ortiz come off as complete ########. If that numbers quote is Jeter, then he's the worst of all.

Interesting how almost all of those jabs at A-Rod are anonymous - nothing but class from his teammates. At least Giambi went on the record. Really, isn't this exactly the sort of thing that a Johnny Leadership should have tried to defuse a long time ago, or be trying to defuse now?

If that numbers quote is Jeter, then he's the worst of all.

I'm guessing its Bubba Crosby. That guy was always threatened by Alex.

Oh Tom Verducci, how wise and distant you are. Give me a freaking break, that whole article read like an expose written by a high school guidance counselor.

I'm reaching the point of A-Rod Ad nauseum.

I really wish the Yankees would dump him and the team that acquires him wins a couple of World Series. I don't think it will happen, but maybe a rotten October could change that.

I agree with SoSHially. It's nuts the #### that gets hung on that guy. I read this piece at work today and thought "Geez...it'd be nice if the Blue Jays could get him or something." I don't even like the Jays, I just figure that there's no way that he can go to Boston.

The guys who gave out the anonymous quotes in that story - terrible, as noted. There's no real way to justify it - they're not trying to help him, they're just sticking the knife in.

I hope the Yanks get swept in the first round, Jeter costs them the series and A-Rod bats 1.000. I feel sorry for him at this point.

Giambi is indeed a tool - what's he ever won in the playoffs? He couldn't win anything in Oakland and was a total ####### passenger the year the Yanks went to the Series with him. He's got a roughly equivalent OPS to A-Rod in the playoffs. Here's a guy who basically sucked for two years while he weaned himself off the juice and he's the voice of wisdom?

It'd be nice if A-Rod had the balls to respond to this by saying "Yeah, I sucked for a while in the middle of a year. At least I didn't look for answers in a needle." I was always kind of a Giambi fan but he must be one of the ####### dumbest guys in the sport (non-Damon division).

I hope the Yanks get swept in the first round, Jeter costs them the series and A-Rod bats 1.000. I feel sorry for him at this point.

And to cap it off, I hope he still gets blamed and just unloads on the media for being such friggin' idiots.

I also hope he hits .350 with 50 bombs next year. Always have been, and will continue to be, an A-Rod fan.

He couldn't win anything in Oakland and was a total ####### passenger the year the Yanks went to the Series with him.

Yeah, he only hit those two homers off of Pedro Martinez in Game Seven... what a loser.

Had he ever seen such persistent criticism? "Knobby," he [Jeter] said, referring to error-prone former second baseman Chuck Knoblauch. "[Roger] Clemens for a whole year. Tino [Martinez]."

Has A-Rod's treatment been worse?

"I don't know," Jeter said. "I don't think about that. I'm just concerned with doing what we can to win."

That second quote is my favorite part of the article. Jeter's answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question.

Oh Tom Verducci, how wise and distant you are. Give me a freaking break, that whole article read like an expose written by a high school guidance counselor.

Huh??? This was a great piece of work. In-depth, well-written, fair and from multiple perspectives. We learned a lot about what is going on behind the scenes, how Torre has approached the situation (and how Giambi clearly shaped it), how A-Rod himself has dealt with his teammates -- both well at times and not well at all at other times. The disconnect between A-Rod's personality and approach to dealing with his game, and that of many of his teammates, is pretty profound and it contributed to the depth and length of his struggles this year. Anyone who says they didn't learn something about that from this article is lying. Just because you're tired of the subject, or maybe would rather not know it, doesn't change the value of the article.

If the MSM did more stuff like this, we'd know a lot more about the game and the players. This was industrious, meticulous, and professional. Outstanding.

What exactly did Giambi say that was so bad? A-Rod played like #### when Giambi talked to him. I've never heard a teammate or even ex-teammate say anything other than Giambi is one of the nicest guys you'll meet either; hell, even Curt Schilling, whom you know is not one to mince words, has said Giambi is one of the nicest guys in the game.

If the MSM did more stuff like this, we'd know a lot more about the game and the players. This was industrious, meticulous, and professional. Outstanding.

I agree with this too.

Bobby Crosby for A-Rod. Please please please please please. Please.

Quotes that are presented in print often lack context, which can lead to misperceptions by the reader.

I did RTFA, the whole thing, and I agree with Sam. I think A-Rod's teammates are rooting for him, with the possible exception of Jeter, and he probably is too (but maybe not too much).

He should hang with Cano and Cabrera. I understand they're the kings of Washington Heights (non-Manny Ramirez division) and I bet they know about having a good time.

My friends from Washington Heights attest to the female market drying up with the arrirval of Melky and Cano.

That's one of the best articles of the year. Definitely the best regarding the A-Rod situation.

Having RTFA, I get the feeling Jeter's loving the situation: The Yanks are in first, he's hitting well and the likely MVP, and A-Rod is getting the shaft every single day. Certainly his "I don't think about that. I'm just concerned with doing what we can to win" dodge makes him seem positively dickish.

Anyone else get the feeling Jeter still remembers the days when A-Rod, and not he, was considered the best shortstop in the universe?

My one joy in life is that everybody still hates A-Rod.

My one joy in life is that everybody still hates A-Rod.

You might want to take up crochet or something. That might make your existence a little less miserable.

Anyone else get the feeling Jeter still remembers the days when A-Rod, and not he, was considered the best shortstop in the universe?

I think he remembers more vividly when A-Rod said as much and said nobody worries about Jeter beating them. Jeter, from different things I've heard, sounds like he's very cold to those he feels has wronged him and is not forgiving at all, as Ken Huckaby and probably Alex could tell you.

"Mussina doesn't get hammered at all," he said. "He's making a boatload of money. Giambi's making [$20.4 million], which is fine and dandy, but it seems those guys get a pass. When people write [bad things] about me, I don't know if it's [because] I'm good-looking, I'm biracial, I make the most money, I play on the most popular team...."

Maybe they write bad things about you because you're a ####.

I too thought this was a great article. I'm so used to anonymous quotes that those Giambi quotes were a breath of fresh air.

My one joy in life is that everybody still hates A-Rod.

Call a suicide hotline at once.

wow, no one comes out looking good in this article....Giambi comes off as a jerk with a too-short memory, AROD admits quite readily he is good looking, Torre shared waay too much information, Jeter is almost a parody of himself by mentioning "winning" in a context that made no sense ("Derek, do you prefer red or white wine?" "I have no response really, as all I'm concerned about is winning and the team"). Mariano comes out looking good, which is obvious as he is the living embodiment of all that is good on this earth.

Although I do like these voyeuristic peeks into the clubhouse, which makes me somewhat ashamed.

Wow, I dislike the Yankees and their fans a little more than I did two minutes before I read this article. Wouldn't have thought that possible.

Sh*t. The Rod had thought he had been hated on in every possible way. "You're not clutch, Rod." "You strike out too much, Rod." "You suck in October, Rod." The other day the Rod ordered a turkey sandwich in a deli, and the counter guy said, "Pfft. A true Yankee would have gotten the pastrami." But losin' your sh*t 'cause a cat's wearin' a suit at 1 AM? Let the Rod ask you a question: the Rod hears a knock on his hotel door after midnight. Who is the Rod gonna assume it is? That's right: B*tches. Now, the Rod didn't remember orderin' no b*tches, but it has been known to happen that ladies have been known to find their way to the Rod's hotel room without him even asking for them. This is one of the reasons the Rod loves America. So, anyway, when some b*tches knock on the Rod's door, he feels that it's his obligation to look his best. The Rod used to answer the door for ladies wearing the best-looking, most valuable suit he owns: the one he was born in. But then there was that time when the Rod forgot that he ordered room service, and that was just uncomfortable for everybody. (The Rod don't mind people gettin' a look at the Staff, but if you just charged him $22 for a cheeseburger and fries, he don't feel like givin' you anything extra.) So after that, the Rod always wears an Armani (herringbone or checked, usually--no pinstripes) under his pajamas for just such an emergency. But the Rod definitely didn't expect to have no baseball executives knockin' on his door. Actually, the Rod at first figured this kid was some high-schooler whose girlfriend the Rod had banged--the Rod gets into these confrontations more often than you'd believe--so he was ready for trouble, but they told me, no, he was general manager of the Red Pants, or whatever. (The Rod can barely keep track of the team he's on; you can't expect him to remember all these other teams they keep makin' up all the time.) The Rod doesn't know when they started giving out baseball teams as graduation presents, but okay. Still, though--the Rod ain't expecting to have to deal with baseball business after midnight. The Rod ain't a doctor or something, where you gotta be on call 24/7. Nobody calls up the Rod in the middle of the night and says, "Rod, it's an emergency, we need you to get out here and hit some line drives."

As for the rest of this sh*t--last time the Rod checked (which he does every ten minutes), he had 116 RBIs. Fifth-most in whatever league the Rod plays in. Most on his team, matter of fact. Now, the Rod remembers when he was growin' up, how RBIs were supposed to be better than Jesus combined. "George Bell's got an assload of RBIs--course he's the MVP." "Look at Joe Carter's RBIs! He's the best player in baseball!" RBIs would heal the sick and raise the dead. Why, when the Rod was in fourth grade, most of his friends discovered jerkin' off by spankin' it to Don Mattingly's RBI totals. True story. (The Rod didn't get into that, since he was already bangin' two college girls and an underwear model by that point.) Even the past couple years, all the Rod heard was, "Oh, David Ortiz kicks the Rod's ass--check out all the RBIs he's got." But now that the Rod's got more RBIs than most every other motherf*cker, all the haters are like, "Oh, those RBIs are all meaningless runs. The Rod isn't clutch. RBIs aren't a good way to measure his production." Riiiight. Anyway, now the Rod's got a ready made response to all the hatin'. Somebody tells him, "Rod, you suck!", he'll just come back with "116 RBIs, f**kbag."

"But you're not clutch--" "116 RBIs."

"But I--" "116 RBIs."

"You--" "116 RBIs."

In fact, from now on, that's all the Rod's gonna say. "Hi, I'm the Rod, nice to meet you, 116 RBIs. I'll have a turkey sandwich, no mayo, 116 RBIs. Hey, nice implants, here's the Rod's room key, 116 RBIs." If people don't like that, well, they can just get down on their knees and suck the Rod's big 116 RBIs. That's all the Rod has to say for now, 116 RBIs, but he'll be back next 116 RBIs. Have a nice 116 RBIs.

Wow, I dislike the Yankees and their fans a little more than I did two minutes before I read this article. Wouldn't have thought that possible.

Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid .You step out of line, the man come and take you away.

The slump (a word Rodriguez refuses to utter) revealed that for all his gifts, A-Rod may never be seen by Yankees traditionalists as worthy of his pinstripes.

Never. That's a function of walking into perceived "rivalry" with Derek Jeter and secondarily being successor to "proven winner" Scott Brosius. ARod will never be forgiven.

This type of idiocy is currently being expressed on WFAN by those wanting to jettison Gary Sheffield in favor of Melky Cabrerra - "If Sheffield comes up with men on first and second, you know what he'll do? He'll try to pull the ball." I didn't make up that quote.

A-Rod is such a kunt.

Anyway, now the Rod's got a ready made response to all the hatin'. Somebody tells him, "Rod, you suck!", he'll just come back with "116 RBIs, f**kbag."

"But you're not clutch--" "116 RBIs."

"But I--" "116 RBIs."

"You--" "116 RBIs."

In fact, from now on, that's all the Rod's gonna say. "Hi, I'm the Rod, nice to meet you, 116 RBIs. I'll have a turkey sandwich, no mayo, 116 RBIs. Hey, nice implants, here's the Rod's room key, 116 RBIs." If people don't like that, well, they can just get down on their knees and suck the Rod's big 116 RBIs. That's all the Rod has to say for now, 116 RBIs, but he'll be back next 116 RBIs. Have a nice 116 RBIs.

RBIs are not a good measure of production.

Here is the way Hall of Fame slugger Reggie Jackson, a Yankees special adviser and a member of the franchise's mythological pinstriped society, explained the yin and yang of the Jeter-Rodriguez relationship: "Alex is too concerned with wanting people to like him. Derek knows he can control only things within the area code DJ."

Given how entertaining Reggie Jackson is these days, I can only imagine what he would've been like had A-Rod somehow been transplanted onto those Bronx Zoo Yankees. "Area Code DJ?" I'm totally stealing that phrase. From now on at work, I only worry about things at "the area code RB"

Never. That's a function of walking into perceived "rivalry" with Derek Jeter and secondarily being successor to "proven winner" Scott Brosius Aaron Boone. ARod will never be forgiven.

I think the Bonds-postseason comparison is apt.

I think the Bonds-postseason comparison is apt.

I don't, because Giants fans never got on Bonds for being unclutch. As a matter of fact, he was seen (rightly) as the clutchiest clutch who ever clutched a clutch. The negative perception of Bonds (then as now) was by those outside San Francisco. Whereas with A-Rod I think the situation is almost exactly the opposite.

One thing that this article should make very clear to the Alex supporters out here is that the problems that people have seen with A-rod's game are not some statistical anomaly. Despite his superficially good (even very good) hitting numbers this year, they have been very visible to all of the players as well as to the Manager. It is time to get you heads out of the sand. I remember saying something similar on this board during the 5 game sweep of the Red Sox and was told by many of you exactly what A-rod said to Jason Giambi, "he had five hits". My reaction was exactly the same as Giambi. I was watching the games and knew what I was seeing. So was the Red Sox manager which was why he kept walking everybody in sight to get to Alex.

The negative fan reaction to A-rod has far less to do with media fueled "rivalries" with other players, than it does with his obvious fragility. I was happy when we got him. Having watched him for three seasons, I certainly understand how talented he is but believe he would be better off away from the Yankees

Derek Jeter is such a prick.

I don't, because Giants fans never got on Bonds for being unclutch. As a matter of fact, he was seen (rightly) as the clutchiest clutch who ever clutched a clutch. The negative perception of Bonds (then as now) was by those outside San Francisco. Whereas with A-Rod I think the situation is almost exactly the opposite.

Do you really think that Yankee fans initiated the reaction in August?

First, I was at the park twice in August, and there was a lot more cheering than booing. Second, I believe the media fueled the anti-Rod sentiment - a more vicious media than exists in SF. Third, I don't know more than a handful of folk who really got on Rodriguez at the park - my opinion is that whole story was overblown.

Some cities boo stars and that's how it goes. NY isn't quite like Philly (who ran Bobby Abreu out on a plank for the relatively insignificant holes in his game), but it's tough.

Derek Jeter is such a prick.

I don't think so, but your classy posting makes it quite clear that you are one. The Yankee who comes out best in this story is Mariano Rivera which should be no surprise to anyone. Torre and Giambi made the mistake of providing too much information. Derek Jeter never says anything meaningful to reporters and he did not do so here. His non-sequitor was actually so unrelated to the question that it was funny. There was no reason in the world to help Verducci write this story, and Derek handled it fine.

Most great (and not great) hitters have slumps that rival A-Rod's dry spell this year. Many A-Rod articles make more of his woes and his relationship with his teammates just because controversy increases readership/viewership. A-Rod's season is better than some of the weaker MVP winners (e.g. Terry Pendleton or Kirk Gibson), and he's hitting .345/.437/.707 for September. However, until the Yanks win it all, there will always be articles suggesting the current team lacks the clubhouse chemistry of the early Torre years. Such is life.

Derek Jeter never says anything meaningful to reporters and he did not do so here.

Are you kidding? I would take 1-5 odds that this quote was his.

Said one Yankees veteran, "It was always about the numbers in [Seattle and Texas] for him. And that doesn't matter here. Winning is all you're judged on here."

Huh??? This was a great piece of work. In-depth, well-written, fair and from multiple perspectives.

All it really had going for it was access. Verducci is a mush-brain.

And "fair" does not describe back-stabbing anonymous quotes tossed in for balance. Or should I say, "balance".

I think the Bonds-postseason comparison is apt.

I don't, because Giants fans never got on Bonds for being unclutch. As a matter of fact, he was seen (rightly) as the clutchiest clutch who ever clutched a clutch. The negative perception of Bonds (then as now) was by those outside San Francisco. Whereas with A-Rod I think the situation is almost exactly the opposite.

That's true to an extent, but as the one who made the original Bonds comparison, I was thinking more of the national perception of the two players as big game "chokers" than I was of their reception in their own parks. And certainly ARod's negative rep stretches well outside the Bronx. He may not get the overall intense hostility on the road that Bonds does, but it's certainly there everywhere he goes.

And don't forget that while Bonds was racking up one MVP after another while playing in San Francisco during those "choker" years, ARod's record in New York so far has consisted of one MVP season which was immediately followed by a gigantic playoff flop, and was sandwiched by that 2004 LCS collapse and his June-August slump this year. For San Francisco fans there was a much bigger time frame to look at Bonds's postseason failures in, and that doesn't even take into account the exponentially greater expectation levels of New York fans.

Derek Jeter never says anything meaningful to reporters and he did not do so here.

Are you kidding? I would take 1-5 odds that this quote was his.

I'll point out the obvious; you have no way of knowing that. I actually think it might have been Posada, but thee is now way of knowing.

Do you really think that Yankee fans initiated the reaction in August?

No, I think, as you do, that it comes primarily from the media. But I also think that Yankee fans are not solidly behind A-Rod - because they listen to the media.

My point is this; The negative perception of Bonds came from people who didn't watch a lot of Giants games. So one good postseason changed everything. The negative perception of A-Rod comes from people who watch a lot of Yankee games - Yankee fans, and the mainstream media, who seem to cover only the Yankees and the Red Sox. So one good postseason is not going to change things - except in the very short term. If this postseason A-Rod plays like Bonds 2002 and the Yankees win the World Series, then as soon as he goes 0-8 in 2007 we'll be seeing the same stories. And, if A-Rod plays like Bonds 2002 and the Yankees don't win the World Series, then he'll be crucified. They'll find things to fault - Bonds made a crucial error in game 6 of the Series, only hit 1 HR during a Giants win, and batted under .300 in the Divisional and Championship Series.

I think A-Rod is in a complete no-win position.

Jeter had ample chance to help A-Rod out [which would help the team. He's all about winning right?] and chose not to do so -- he's helped players out publically in the past -- but he chose not to do so here because of a personal rift over not-so-terrible comments made about a half dozen years ago.

Yeah, I thought Jetes was all about the team?

Ah, the Bronx Zoo. So lovely in September. So varied in October.

<blockquote>Jeter had ample chance to help A-Rod out [which would help the team. He's all about winning right?] and chose not to do so -- he's helped players out publically in the past -- but he chose not to do so here because of a personal rift over not-so-terrible comments made about a half dozen years ago.<blockquote>

Again, you have no idea if any of this is true. You are just parroting jackass reporters who need a story and were writing that it was up to Jeter to help him. In any case, how exactly can Jeter help Alex out? By telling the fans to lay off him? That would just make Alex look weak. By telling the media to lay off him? That would just fuel more idiotic stories. Alex Rodriquez is supposed to be one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Why should he need that kind of help? You can see from the story that Mariano knew he needed support. But he did not speak up publically either. Why? Because to do so is a nonsensical idea dreamed up by idiot reporters.

For all the scorn heaped upon Giambi for his ties to the BALCO steroid scandal, he is a strong clubhouse voice because he plays with a passion that stirs teammates and even opponents. This season, for instance, he reprimanded his former Oakland A's teammate, Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada, for occasionally showing up late to games out of frustration over another losing Baltimore season. "You're better than that," he told Tejada. So Giambi's gripe about Rodriguez sounded an alarm with Torre.

Anyone who says Giambi is a jerk is choosing not to read the article. He is almost UNIVERSALLY admired by his teammates, and I don't know how many more examples we need of Rodriguez's faults before people on this board can accept them and not turn it around and refer to Giambi as a "goon".

I think A-Rod is in a complete no-win position.

No question. ARod could hit a grand slam and a 3 run HR in a 7-2 Yankee win, and the next day, the papers will say "ARod hits two HR in blowout."

If ARod gets a hit or walk every time he's up in the playoffs, and never makes an error, SOMETHING will be dug up to look negative about him. Someone will say he pulled up running the bases, or he didn't make a good defensive effort, or whatever. And if Jeter goes 1-60 in the playoffs, his one single will be viewed as incredibly clutch, as well as his defensive efforts keeping his team in the game.

Anyone who says Giambi is a jerk is choosing not to read the article.

I read the article. Giambi is a blue-ribbon a-hole. I give him credit for speaking on the record, but if his teammates admire that cheater, they're nigh unto idiots. I wouldn't listen to him for one stinking second if I were A-Rod or the equipment manager.

Proof that A-Rod isn't an idiot, by the way, is that he didn't list Giambi among those who helped.

I don't know how many more examples we need of Rodriguez's faults before people on this board can accept them

"Faults"...riiiiiiiiiiight. He's awful. Perhaps there's another 3Bman you'd rather have? Someone who's clutch? I'm sure Scott Brosius would pick up the phone.

Anyone who says Giambi is a jerk is choosing not to read the article. He is almost UNIVERSALLY admired by his teammates, and I don't know how many more examples we need of Rodriguez's faults before people on this board can accept them and not turn it around and refer to Giambi as a "goon".

I don't think anyone is saying that ARod doesn't have some pretty big faults or that he's having a good season. The issue is whether the criticism is logical and proportional.

He should hang with Cano and Cabrera

Cabrera can't even drink!

"It was always about the numbers in [Seattle and Texas] for him. And that doesn't matter here. Winning is all you're judged on here."

That's funny, I could swear he was being judged for slumping in June.

Whatever. A-Rod has been kicking holy ass this month. He's hitting with monster power the right field and center.

I laughed at the Rod. More than once.

I don't think anyone is saying that ARod doesn't have some pretty big faults or that he's having a good season.

.286/.385/.517

Now sure, he had a prolonged slump and was just awful for a while and those numbers are below his career numbers, but on what planet is a .902 OPS from a third basemen not a good season?

RBIs are not a good measure of production.

True, but RBIs are probably the best way to get through to the sabermetric illiterates who are making anti-ARod arguments.

his June-August slump this year.

With a .900 OPS in July and an .846 in August, I'm not really sure he had a 3 month slump.

He's been kicking ass in a month when the pennat race is over. A-Rod sucked when it mattered this year. I'm not saying I don't like him on my team, but he was letting them down. This was obvious to ANYONE who watched the yankees with any regularity this year. My point about Giambi was that if someone who is almost universally respected by friend and foe alike, is telling that he needs to figure out, we should listen. A-Rod hiding behind "I've got 116 RBIs" is total crap. Arguments made my primates (Dr. Memory) such as "I wish my team has a 900ops third baseman" are completely irrelevant. In much the same way as it took this board years to even remotely acknowledge that Bonds was a jerk, it's like people on this board are resisting the idea that A-Rod might not be the most likeable guy. Maybe Giambi shouldn't have gone public with his thoughts, but that doesn't mean he's a supreme jerk and that his comments have no merit.

.286/.385/.517

Now sure, he had a prolonged slump and was just awful for a while and those numbers are below his career numbers, but on what planet is a .902 OPS from a third basemen not a good season?

I just meant that it's not quite an AROD season, esp. when combined with his defensive problems. Clearly he's still having a very good season relative to the other 3b around baseball.

Jeter is the leadership and heart and soul who guides the Yankees, but can only be concerned with area code DJ.

got it.

All it really had going for it was access. Verducci is a mush-brain.

And "fair" does not describe back-stabbing anonymous quotes tossed in for balance. Or should I say, "balance".

I guess we just disagree -- completely. Don't blame the reporter for the quotes. If they are "back-stabbing," that's the responsibility of the teammate or coach or whomever who provided them. If Verducci is going to tell the full story, as best he can tell it, it's his job to get the picture from as many angles as he can. The fact that some of A-Rod's teammates regard him as only concerned about his stats, and not getting how much his play was hurting the team, and even being afraid of the ball (whether they are right or wrong) is a HUGE part of the story. Was Verducci supposed to leave those things out, once they were said to him? That would have been grossly irresponsible.

Giambi's a (former?) roid-head. He doesn't have the high ground on anyone...

I love A-Rod, can't stand the Yanks. My hope would be that he tanks massively in the playoffs, the Yanks fall out early, and he takes the blame. Then they deal him...

What I can't stand is the Yankee fans who say they're paying him $26 million. They aren't. Texas is paying a good chunk of that. Ynaks are still getting decent production for their money.

Maybe Giambi shouldn't have gone public with his thoughts, but that doesn't mean he's a supreme jerk and that his comments have no merit.

Well, it certainly worked for him to go public with his steroid usage. Maybe he's just using for all his issues.

A-Rod hiding behind "I've got 116 RBIs" is total crap.

You do realize that post #61 here is satire, right?

Well, it certainly worked for him to go public with his steroid usage. Maybe he's just using for all his issues.

Make that: Maybe he's just using going public for all his issues.

I find it shocking that anyone thinks Giambi is a beacon of clutchness and integrity. The Yanks haven't won anything with him, either. He's had some big hits but not any more than A-Rod and he's certainly besmirched the pinstripes far more in terms of character than anything A-Rod has done.